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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
I was wondering how do you know if your psychosis is from cannabis?
does psychosis usually happen right after smoking or not?
does anyone know?
Posted by europerep on January 13, 2014, at 14:07:49
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
Hi,
The only way to really know is to stop using cannabis and see whether psychotic symptoms disappear. With cannabis-induced psychosis, symptoms should be gone after a few months of abstinence, and any remaining symptoms should be considered to not have been drug-induced and thus require "standard" treatment.
If you can, it would be good to see a psychiatrist with experience in these questions and who approaches the issue rationally, i.e. neither downplaying the possible effects of drug use but not exclusively focusing on cannabis use either.
I hope this helps. Feel free to post more questions that you have.
ER
Posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 14:25:37
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis? » revv33, posted by europerep on January 13, 2014, at 14:07:49
well here is my story... I was hospitalized a year ago because I was psychotic and since then been on antipsychotics, I was using pot during that month that I was psychotic but if I remember correctly I didnt smoke the day I became psychotic.
I was thinking maybe my psychosis was cannabis induced but I dont know...
Posted by SLS on January 13, 2014, at 15:29:13
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 14:25:37
> well here is my story... I was hospitalized a year ago because I was psychotic and since then been on antipsychotics, I was using pot during that month that I was psychotic but if I remember correctly I didnt smoke the day I became psychotic.
>
> I was thinking maybe my psychosis was cannabis induced but I dont know...Europerep's suggestions seem very reasonable. I don't know very much about chemical substance abuse. However, there are tons of scientific studies using varying methodologies that report that cannabis use can provoke psychoses or hasten the onset of schizophrenia. There are studies that refute these contentions, though.
https://www.google.com/#q=%28marijuana+OR+cannabis%29+AND+%28psychosis+OR+schizophrenia%29
If it turns out that your psychosis was NOT induced by cannabis, would you return to using it?
- Scott
Posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 15:36:21
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis? » revv33, posted by SLS on January 13, 2014, at 15:29:13
no way I wouldnt use pot again, not going to risk going psychotic again
Posted by europerep on January 13, 2014, at 17:28:04
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 15:36:21
Is your question whether you can stop the antipsychotic you're taking, if you also stay abstinent from cannabis/drug use? If so, how long have you been symptom-free now?
I don't know enough about psychosis and its prognostics, or about when or how one should go about going off an antipsychotic, etc. But others here may know more about that question.
Posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 18:13:19
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis? » revv33, posted by europerep on January 13, 2014, at 17:28:04
ya thats what im asking I should of been clearer when I first started this thread, but I am asking if I could eventually stop meds if it was a drug induced psychosis
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2014, at 23:05:47
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
im shocked you posted this, i had a serious psychosis from cannabis intake at a party one night....i smoked it out of a pipe, and after about the 4th large puff i went out of reality....i thought i was not in my body, my thoughts dereailed, it felt like i was in a dream trying to wake up, yet i was councious and awake...i had to lock myself in the bathroom for 2 hours which seemed like 2 days to me....it was bad, cannabis induces dissociation in some people, and can cause thought dereailment, thats why some people say they feel relaxed and stoned, it lightnes and loosens the thought process up....it makes you think alternate thinking....
it was bad when i went out of reality, i thought i was not in my body, in a dazed fog dream, it was horrible....some people just get relaxed and happy, not me....never touching the stuff again....but its wierd because i perfer methamphetamine over cannabis....i love methamphetamine, but i know where the road it takes a person after they start using the crystalized form of it....its much stronger than Desoxyn because of the rapid and high dose....and metham causes paranoia and agitation....
some people love cannabis
but the psychosis will end in a couple of hours after its smoked
r
Posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2014, at 23:09:46
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
the kind i had was hydroweed....it was soaked in this marajuna liquid and it makes it stronger....hydroweed
THC is the main thing that gets a person high
Posted by sukarno on January 14, 2014, at 6:06:48
In reply to Re: weed, posted by rjlockhart37 on January 13, 2014, at 23:09:46
I thought the point of smoking cannabis was to become psychotic in a way.
I experienced dissociation, depersonalisation, derealisation and a sense of numbness. It really freaked me out but this syndrome only happened if I smoked like the others did (and they pressured me to keep up with them).
If I only had 1 or 2 light puffs, I didn't experience anything of that sort.
Moderation is the key.
Posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2014, at 8:14:19
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
Paranoia on cannabis can happen from these three causes:
1. Inexperienced consumer, low tolerance.
2. 20% of population has a faulty gene.
3. Wrong strain of cannabis....some are stimulating.
4. Overdose. Even an experienced consumer can get some paranoia if they overdose.Generally speaking there should be no paranoia and no depression and no anxiety resulting from the use of cannabis. As a matter of fact, used properly, cannabis will treat those quite well.
If those paranoia side effectsdo happen, the dose has to be adjusted. If that doesn't work, then it might be you have that bad gene.
From a therapeutic or medical perspective, cannabis is not dosed the same as it is in recreational use. Doses are usually smaller, more measured, counted, and timed throughout the day....the same as meds.
What would happen if you took a new med? Or took too much? Bizarre side effects. Same thing.
The most common culprit....smoked too much! Oh, but I only smoked half a joint? Well then, that was too much! Try one puff next time. Increase it as tolerated and as some tolerance sets in.
Keep in mind, it only takes less than 48 hours, beginning at about 16 hours, to lose any tolerance you have. So you could be back to a beginner in no time, which would requiring going small at first, again.
Posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2014, at 8:26:34
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 14:25:37
No, your symptoms were not caused by your cannabis usage.
Can I prove that? No.
Can someone prove cannabis is guilty? No.But with extensive knowledge on this particular topic, highly doubtful. Every study out there....the ones that put cannabis in a favorable light as well as those that don't...doctors who know the topic...ya know....actual people....all that stuff....
That being said, I am the one always preaching how insanely complicated the body is. What we know, and we think it is a lot, is but a smidgen of all we don't know. Could the cannabis molecule somehow have triggered some gene? Triggered some virus? Found a flaw in the immune system and set something off? I mean, the imagination of what could have happened is endless.
The odds of cannabis causing your current condition is, imo, extremely low. In studies, when cannabis did that, it was assumed in early studies it was cannabis, but in more recent studies has been shown to be a defective gene as it relates to cannabis, but not the cannabis itself.
Psychosis, in my experience, is usually caused by a hidden unsuspected chronic infection, with its neurotoxins wreaking havoc in the brain receptors. Only 1 in 10 people who have lyme disease is diagnosed. That means for me....the 1 that did get diagnosed (following 15 years of misdiagnosed psychiatric!)...there are 9 of you out there that are infected and do not know it.
Even folks with heavy abuse of hard drugs like LSD, shrooms, speed....pretty much do not have paranoia as a permanent outcome...cannabis is a much tamer friendlier thing than those.
imo
Posted by Brot on January 14, 2014, at 12:06:33
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2014, at 8:26:34
just curious... do you bleauberry use cannabis to treat whatever you have?
Posted by Jeroen on January 14, 2014, at 12:16:49
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 15:36:21
a wise decision
Posted by europerep on January 14, 2014, at 14:23:33
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 18:13:19
> ya thats what im asking I should of been clearer when I first started this thread, but I am asking if I could eventually stop meds if it was a drug induced psychosis
Hey,
I'm not going to get into discussing what other posters have posted here, much is conjecture/claims without any shred of evidence/etc., but I'm not interested in having that type of debate right now, and this thread wouldn't be the right place for it anyway.
But cannabis-induced psychosis, like other drug-induced psychoses, does exist. Did you take other drugs at the time, by the way? Generally speaking, especially if you're still relatively young, I would really recommend having your antipsychotic treatment reviewed by an experienced psychiatrist.
If you need the antipsychotic and it works, you should take it, that's what they're for, but there are enough reasons to be careful with possibly unnecessary long-term antipsychotic treatment. But don't change your antipsychotic treatment by yourself. Speak to your psychiatrist, tell him what you think, and see how he'll react. Is there any reason you're not comfortable asking those questions? You can always consult a second psychiatrist if you're not happy with his/her answer.
We can't really give you much more info than that, other than someone else describing the regular procedure of how to treat psychosis and if/when to stop antipsychotic treatment, because I'm not very well versed in those questions.
ER
Posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2014, at 14:56:33
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
There is not enough research to back up anyone's opinion on this topic regardless what side of the debate they take. The existing data can be cherry picked, or interpreted, in a way an author would like it to be. So going down that road, as a previous poster wisely said, isn't going to be of much help.
Ok. Your original question. Can you ever recover from psychosis without meds?
You will have to decide for yourself. In my journeys I have seen it happen twice.
The first case is a woman that was on antipsychotics and other meds for most of her life, never adequately stabilized on them, crazy life, they blamed it on something gone wrong at birth or genes or something. No joke....she came to know Jesus at a church I was going to (I got to witness this story in real time). Within 8 months time, her meds were gone, and she was out on a new life. I'm sure she might always have some background nuisance symptoms to deal, or maybe not, she looked absolutely perfectly fine. Jesus does still do miracles.
She kept repeating to herself the whole time that she was going to be healed. Blind faith. That's the kind of faith it takes. Jesus told us that those who believe though they have not see are blessed. The more "in alignment" with Jesus we become, the more we can manage all the problems in our lives, including our symptoms.
As I said. You have to decide. Her life-long schizophrenia with psychosis was gone. The only thing that changed was she went to church and she asked Jesus to be the guide.
I do recall it was rocky roads during the time period she was actually weaning off the meds. She got help there too.
The second example is me. I used to talk to one or two people I could trust in and tell them just how friggin crazy my mind was. I knew it was. But I couldn't help it. The anxiety, the paranoia, the akathisia, the terror, the whatever it was, the "feeling crazy" stuff was just intense. I always tried to hide it when others were around, but damn, what a paranoid crazy I was!
With the benefit of hindsight, it appears those symptoms came from the organism Bartonella. That is one of the common co-infections from ticks. That particular pathogen somehow causes a cluster of psychiatric symptoms more than the primary lyme pathogen called borrellia, or the other co-infection called babesia which is a parasite. It too is a psychiatric bug, but has night sweats as a prominent marker, and I still have night sweats, diminished from what they were, and so my work is not done.
Of curious note, my psychiatric stuff did not improve much while treating the primary lyme organism borrellia, but improved notably treating its partner in crime bartonella.
My schizophrenic and paranoia stuff went away with several months of antibiotics. The anxiety and depression were more stubborn, and they appear to be more related to the toxins involved rather than the actual bugs. The anxiety is all but gone, only surfaces during a bad Herx reaction, and the depression is mostly gone....anhedonia was my most dominant symptom all those years, is much improved, but appears to be the last symptom to go.
So anyway, yes, it has happened. People have recovered from really bad psychiatric symptoms of all kinds including the entire schizo spectrum. In both examples, it did not happen by accident. In both cases there was a purposeful persistent effort involved. What I find interesting are two things:
1. Jesus is real and He still does miracles.
2. Two totally different healing paths went to the same improved outcome. Actually I think the Jesus path was a lot better than mine. I need to increase my dose of Him!> I was wondering how do you know if your psychosis is from cannabis?
>
> does psychosis usually happen right after smoking or not?
>
> does anyone know?
Posted by poser938 on January 16, 2014, at 19:23:29
In reply to Re: Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by bleauberry on January 14, 2014, at 14:56:33
I've experienced effects on my mood from a certain psychiatric Med (Adderall) that didn't show up until sometime after stopping it. I had taken it for about 6 weeks and one day I noticed throughout the day I was feeling weird. Very nervous feeling. Later on in that day I ended up having my first and only panic attack ever. This is where my story with severe mood problems began, but I didn't exactly realize it until sometime later. But days after my panic attack, I realized I had Adder all no longer had Anny effect on me. I also realized nothing really interested me anymore. I couldn't stay a whole day in school anymore without wanting to cry for no reason. But I had no idea how severe my mood condition was about to get. After a few weeks of discontinuing Adder all and feeling bad, my mood slowly turned to really, really bad. I felt like I was in Hell. But at the time I wasn't sure I could relate how I was feeling to being caused by Adderall, since it had been some time between discontinuing it to when my mood turned from bad to severe.
But then I went feeling like that for about a year and then finally went back to a psychiatrist. Tried more meds to help my severe "depression", and after trying a few, I realized how these meds effected me. They were having long-term effects on me that didn't go away after discontinuing. And after my experience with psychiatric meds over the years, I can only relate my severe depression that caused my yo go back to. The psychiatrist as being caused by Adderall. It was such an unnaturally depressed mood. I don't know if depression is the word for it, it just felt like there was an organic dysfunction in my brain. What I ad was a substance induced mood problem caused by Adderall. I got lucky and cleared up what Addrrall did to me with a Med called Cyproheptadine. But a few years later I tried a Mirapex, Med typically used for Restless Legs Syndrome, and it ended up inducing the same problem Adderall did. This is when it became clear that Adderall was indeed the cause of my previous mood problems. Addetall and Mirapex both increase stimulation in Dopamine pathways in the brain, but in different ways.
Anyway, I say yes, just because you didn't use Marijuana at the same time you developed psychosis, does not necessarily mean your psychoses wasn't caused by Marijuana. Nor does discontinuing Marijuana and having your symptoms persist indicate that Marijuana didn't cause your psychoses. As we know, our brains are more complex than we can imagine. And it is like a very sensitive ecosystem, and sometimes using mood/brain altering substances, whether its an herb or a chemical developed in a lab, but sometimes they cause permanent alterations in functioning that are detrimental to the person. And I believe this effect is much more common than any drug company wants us to think. Our brains are not meant to be altered by chemicals.
Posted by phidippus on January 18, 2014, at 2:43:00
In reply to Cannabis induced psychosis?, posted by revv33 on January 13, 2014, at 13:57:46
Paranoia and hallucinations are typical of Marijuana psychosis. If your illness predisposes you to paranoia and hallucinations, marijuana might make it worse.
Eric
This is the end of the thread.
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