![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 54. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
I am going through a living hell right now. A major depressive episode has hit me like a train and I am very desperate for some kind of relief.
I am currently on 120 mg Nort, 5 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan as I have been for 2 years now - I have had 2 dep. episodes, 5 and 2 years ago both due to stress. I normally have swings from feeling normal for some weeks and then down for some days/weeks and then back to normal. I have yet not found a regime to keep me 100% stabile but I thought that the medicine would at least protect me from another dep. episode. I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other. I have a loving family with 2 kids, good job and social life.
Could the Nort be pooping out? From my blood screening I am on the low side of the therapeutic window. I dont trust the Valdoxan to do anything apart from maybe improving my sleep. My p-doc thinks about augmenting the Nort w Lithium but it does not sound like a quick acting thingAnd I am now feeling like wanting to end my life.
What could be here-and-now drug? A benzo? I normally have no axiety but I am feeling scared right now and so sad, I dont know how much more I can take...
Posted by rjlockhart37 on November 24, 2012, at 14:02:27
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
you don't have enough dopamine....have you considered a stimulat like Focalin or Concerta...they increase DA but its usally used for ADHD.
Wellbutrin....but its known for anxiety causing, but it increases DA and NE. Check out Nuvigil, its popular with docs right now, its a wakefulness stimulant, not amphetamine type.
Your on some stuff that could sedate...and cause serotonin to be too high. Too much serotonin can cause blunt feelings. Effexor would be a really good choice too....it works on sero, but increses norephineprine. Alertness and Wake feeling chemical....
yea a benzo like xanax would help it is used for anxiety depression, but usally only for panic attacks, but you never know with a good doc, they may give to you. Think what needs to be done before you see the doc...play chess with them in how they view you and think..
r
Posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 15:04:27
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
Oh hansi, I really feel for you. I, too, am going through the worst depression of my life...i don't know, maybe knowing you are not alone in your suffering will help a little.
In my experience, one can have a poop out of any drug. Over the decades I have pretty much been on every drug there is, and they have all pooped out on me. The only drug that helps me at all now is Ritalin. Well, for the depression, I should say. As far as anxiety, the only thing that helps me is Neurontin.
Trying lithium in your case might be a good idea since you are having such mood swings. But maybe your pdoc could put you on a temporary course of a stim like Ritalin or an amphetamine until it kicks in. And a benzo wouldn't hurt either, since you are feeling such anxiety about your situation.
Well, just my 2 cents. I hope you can find something that helps. Hang in there, you are not alone. And, if nothing else, a stim will definitely improve your mood. Keep us posted.
Kat
Posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 16:18:43
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
The Abilify trial was a definite factor (though It's isn't clear whether you were still on Abilify when the episode started.) I can't tell you which way to go until I get the facts.
Posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 16:30:30
In reply to Re: I am loosing it » hansi555, posted by ChicagoKat on November 24, 2012, at 15:04:27
Hi Kat
Thank you so much for your post. I feel we share some of the same symptoms as I have been between normal and depressed mood for 5 years now - I was never manic either.I tried Lamictal together with my current meds for more than 1 year but I never got past 75 mg because it ruined my sleep AND it did not help with the mood swings.
I believe Nort is helping me somehow and adding Lithium could be a long term answer but will it help now and lift me out of this hole of depression anytime soon?
Ritalin is interesting but could it be a long term alternative?
Hope to hear from you again and hope you get well soon, hansi
> Oh hansi, I really feel for you. I, too, am going through the worst depression of my life...i don't know, maybe knowing you are not alone in your suffering will help a little.
>
> In my experience, one can have a poop out of any drug. Over the decades I have pretty much been on every drug there is, and they have all pooped out on me. The only drug that helps me at all now is Ritalin. Well, for the depression, I should say. As far as anxiety, the only thing that helps me is Neurontin.
>
> Trying lithium in your case might be a good idea since you are having such mood swings. But maybe your pdoc could put you on a temporary course of a stim like Ritalin or an amphetamine until it kicks in. And a benzo wouldn't hurt either, since you are feeling such anxiety about your situation.
>
> Well, just my 2 cents. I hope you can find something that helps. Hang in there, you are not alone. And, if nothing else, a stim will definitely improve your mood. Keep us posted.
> Kat
Posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 16:39:53
In reply to Re: I am loosing it, posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 16:18:43
> The Abilify trial was a definite factor (though It's isn't clear whether you were still on Abilify when the episode started.) I can't tell you which way to go until I get the facts.
Yes it started when I was still doing 2,5 mg.
First I got 6 great weeks after starting the Abilify and then it was like if the mood swings got "bigger": In the down periods I got deeper down, became energyless, apathic and in the normal/good periods I was fealing better than normal. Then I upped the dose to 5 mg for some days and it got worse, so I completely stopped 3 weeks ago, but the down periods just stayed and worsened and the normal periods stayed away. And now I have a really bad situation, it seems worse than ever before...
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 17:40:43
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
> I am going through a living hell right now. A major depressive episode has hit me like a train and I am very desperate for some kind of relief.
>
> I am currently on 120 mg Nort, 5 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan as I have been for 2 years now - I have had 2 dep. episodes, 5 and 2 years ago both due to stress. I normally have swings from feeling normal for some weeks and then down for some days/weeks and then back to normal. I have yet not found a regime to keep me 100% stabile but I thought that the medicine would at least protect me from another dep. episode. I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other. I have a loving family with 2 kids, good job and social life.
> Could the Nort be pooping out? From my blood screening I am on the low side of the therapeutic window. I dont trust the Valdoxan to do anything apart from maybe improving my sleep. My p-doc thinks about augmenting the Nort w Lithium but it does not sound like a quick acting thing
>
> And I am now feeling like wanting to end my life.
>
> What could be here-and-now drug? A benzo? I normally have no axiety but I am feeling scared right now and so sad, I dont know how much more I can take...
>hansi555,
You wrote,[...going through a living hell..very desparate...joyless...I am now feeling like wanting to end my life...I don't know how much more I can take...].
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2012, at 18:02:41
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
Hansi I think that lithium takes about two weeks for a therapeutic response. Since you have the anxiety maybe some xanx? That will stop a panic attack. Which could be the stress you say is missing. Feeling this way is stress in itself. Phillipa
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 18:40:47
In reply to Lou's response- » hansi555, posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 17:40:43
> > I am going through a living hell right now. A major depressive episode has hit me like a train and I am very desperate for some kind of relief.
> >
> > I am currently on 120 mg Nort, 5 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan as I have been for 2 years now - I have had 2 dep. episodes, 5 and 2 years ago both due to stress. I normally have swings from feeling normal for some weeks and then down for some days/weeks and then back to normal. I have yet not found a regime to keep me 100% stabile but I thought that the medicine would at least protect me from another dep. episode. I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other. I have a loving family with 2 kids, good job and social life.
> > Could the Nort be pooping out? From my blood screening I am on the low side of the therapeutic window. I dont trust the Valdoxan to do anything apart from maybe improving my sleep. My p-doc thinks about augmenting the Nort w Lithium but it does not sound like a quick acting thing
> >
> > And I am now feeling like wanting to end my life.
> >
> > What could be here-and-now drug? A benzo? I normally have no axiety but I am feeling scared right now and so sad, I dont know how much more I can take...
> >
>
> hansi555,
> You wrote,[...going through a living hell..very desparate...joyless...I am now feeling like wanting to end my life...I don't know how much more I can take...].
>hansi555,
Now you have gone down a heartbreaking valley that could lead to death. The drugs that you take could cause death via serotonin syndrome. And if you go into withdrawal, people kill themselves in that phase. And you are in the valley with death on the left of you, death on the right of you, death in front of you and I wonder. I wonder if you could return. Return to the green fields that you used to know. Return to the valleys where rivers used to run. Return to the meadows kissed by the sun.
There is a way out of the darkness. There is a new life of light and peace. There is peace beyond understanding. There is life for evermore, that I am prohibited here from posting the way. But I say to you, seek not which could destroy but seek first (redacted by respondent)and the Sun of Righteousness will arise with healing in his wings.
Lou
Posted by jono_in_adelaide on November 24, 2012, at 19:09:48
In reply to I am loosing it, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 12:18:45
Push the mirtazapine to 30mg, it will help the depression and anxiety
Posted by baseball55 on November 24, 2012, at 20:05:24
In reply to Re: I am loosing it » ChicagoKat, posted by hansi555 on November 24, 2012, at 16:30:30
I may be wrong about this, but I think lithium is pretty fast acting. I know in bad bipolar, they stabilize people within days.
Posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 20:56:48
In reply to Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 18:40:47
Lou, I'm afraid I can't argue with you about it this time.
Anyway, it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to the max recommended dose of nortriptyline (150mg - 3 50mg pills); you're doctor should have kept you on this dose from the beginning. The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. Lithium could screw you up for the long term too, but it might not if you're bi-polar. You might want to try a benzo like clonazepam, as they're less risky, as are anticonvulsants like neurontin or Lyrica.
Posted by Phil on November 24, 2012, at 21:05:13
In reply to Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 18:40:47
"Now you have gone down a heartbreaking valley that could lead to death. The drugs that you take could cause death via serotonin syndrome. And if you go into withdrawal, people kill themselves in that phase. And you are in the valley with death on the left of you, death on the right of you, death in front of you"
________________Is that a good thing to say to someone whose state of mind is fragile and is trying to stay afloat?
Posted by Phillipa on November 24, 2012, at 21:11:15
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on November 24, 2012, at 21:05:13
Phil absolutely know that could be the final trigger. Lets support Hansi. Hansi know we care. Phillipa
Posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 22:28:26
In reply to Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by Lou Pilder on November 24, 2012, at 18:40:47
> > > I am going through a living hell right now. A major depressive episode has hit me like a train and I am very desperate for some kind of relief.
> > >
> > > I am currently on 120 mg Nort, 5 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan as I have been for 2 years now - I have had 2 dep. episodes, 5 and 2 years ago both due to stress. I normally have swings from feeling normal for some weeks and then down for some days/weeks and then back to normal. I have yet not found a regime to keep me 100% stabile but I thought that the medicine would at least protect me from another dep. episode. I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other. I have a loving family with 2 kids, good job and social life.
> > > Could the Nort be pooping out? From my blood screening I am on the low side of the therapeutic window. I dont trust the Valdoxan to do anything apart from maybe improving my sleep. My p-doc thinks about augmenting the Nort w Lithium but it does not sound like a quick acting thing
> > >
> > > And I am now feeling like wanting to end my life.
> > >
> > > What could be here-and-now drug? A benzo? I normally have no axiety but I am feeling scared right now and so sad, I dont know how much more I can take...
> > >
> >
> > hansi555,
> > You wrote,[...going through a living hell..very desparate...joyless...I am now feeling like wanting to end my life...I don't know how much more I can take...].
> >
>
> hansi555,
> Now you have gone down a heartbreaking valley that could lead to death. The drugs that you take could cause death via serotonin syndrome. And if you go into withdrawal, people kill themselves in that phase. And you are in the valley with death on the left of you, death on the right of you, death in front of you and I wonder. I wonder if you could return. Return to the green fields that you used to know. Return to the valleys where rivers used to run. Return to the meadows kissed by the sun.
> There is a way out of the darkness. There is a new life of light and peace. There is peace beyond understanding. There is life for evermore, that I am prohibited here from posting the way. But I say to you, seek not which could destroy but seek first (redacted by respondent)and the Sun of Righteousness will arise with healing in his wings.
> LouLou, where were you when it was suggested that I take Lithium back in '09'
Posted by hansi555 on November 25, 2012, at 3:41:42
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 20:56:48
> Lou, I'm afraid I can't argue with you about it this time.
>
> Anyway, it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to the max recommended dose of nortriptyline (150mg - 3 50mg pills); you're doctor should have kept you on this dose from the beginning. The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term.
Lithium could screw you up for the long term too, but it might not if you're bi-polar. You might want to try a benzo like clonazepam, as they're less risky, as are anticonvulsants like neurontin or Lyrica.Thanks for your inputs
What do you mean by: The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. ???
That I can go back to before or that I can use this drug long term?I am not bi-polar. Why can Lithium screw me up long term too? Lithium is something completely different to Abilify as far as I know???
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2012, at 6:28:20
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Lou Pilder, posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 22:28:26
> > > > I am going through a living hell right now. A major depressive episode has hit me like a train and I am very desperate for some kind of relief.
> > > >
> > > > I am currently on 120 mg Nort, 5 mg Mirtazapin and 37,5 mg Valdoxan as I have been for 2 years now - I have had 2 dep. episodes, 5 and 2 years ago both due to stress. I normally have swings from feeling normal for some weeks and then down for some days/weeks and then back to normal. I have yet not found a regime to keep me 100% stabile but I thought that the medicine would at least protect me from another dep. episode. I briefly tried a small dose (2,5 mg) of Abilify some weeks ago but it did not improve my situation on the depressive side. After that trial I slowly began to experience more and more symptoms like fatigue, no lust, lack of appetite, joyless etc. I cannot find any reasons in my life right now like stress, changes in medicine or other. I have a loving family with 2 kids, good job and social life.
> > > > Could the Nort be pooping out? From my blood screening I am on the low side of the therapeutic window. I dont trust the Valdoxan to do anything apart from maybe improving my sleep. My p-doc thinks about augmenting the Nort w Lithium but it does not sound like a quick acting thing
> > > >
> > > > And I am now feeling like wanting to end my life.
> > > >
> > > > What could be here-and-now drug? A benzo? I normally have no axiety but I am feeling scared right now and so sad, I dont know how much more I can take...
> > > >
> > >
> > > hansi555,
> > > You wrote,[...going through a living hell..very desparate...joyless...I am now feeling like wanting to end my life...I don't know how much more I can take...].
> > >
> >
> > hansi555,
> > Now you have gone down a heartbreaking valley that could lead to death. The drugs that you take could cause death via serotonin syndrome. And if you go into withdrawal, people kill themselves in that phase. And you are in the valley with death on the left of you, death on the right of you, death in front of you and I wonder. I wonder if you could return. Return to the green fields that you used to know. Return to the valleys where rivers used to run. Return to the meadows kissed by the sun.
> > There is a way out of the darkness. There is a new life of light and peace. There is peace beyond understanding. There is life for evermore, that I am prohibited here from posting the way. But I say to you, seek not which could destroy but seek first (redacted by respondent)and the Sun of Righteousness will arise with healing in his wings.
> > Lou
>
> Lou, where were you when it was suggested that I take Lithium back in '09'schleprock,
I do not remember your name as schleprock. Did Lithiuim harm you?
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/lithium+carbonate/death
Posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2012, at 8:58:16
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » Lou Pilder, posted by Phil on November 24, 2012, at 21:05:13
> "Now you have gone down a heartbreaking valley that could lead to death. The drugs that you take could cause death via serotonin syndrome. And if you go into withdrawal, people kill themselves in that phase. And you are in the valley with death on the left of you, death on the right of you, death in front of you"
> ________________
>
> Is that a good thing to say to someone whose state of mind is fragile and is trying to stay afloat?Phil,
You want to know what a good thing is to say. I am prevented from posting what I think could save the life of the poster in question here, prevent life-ruining conditions and addiction by the nature of the prohibitions to me here by Mr Hsiung. Yet today, members can post here telling others to take a mind-altering drug that could increase suicidal thinking and combined with other drugs could cause death or addiction or a life-ruining condition such as tardive dyskinesia, heart attack, diabetes, kidney disease and such.
A good thing to say is something that could bring life, which is a good thing in any forum. I am trying to save lives here, and what I need to say is repressed by the prohibitions to me here by Mr Hsiung. And much more than that, he allows you and others to post to me what could cause others to have disparging, hostile and disagreeable opinions or feelings against me. Mr Hsiung has referred to me as The Prince of Death. I come here to lead others to have life, and life more abundantly. If I knew of a chemical that one could put in their body in the form of a psychotropic drug that would prevent the poster's suicide I would do so, but there is liturature that links antidepressants and anticonvulsants to an increased risk of suicide. And there could be an increase in suicidal thinking in the withdrawal phase if the person stops the drugs that they are on.
And I know of a way that has been revealed to me that could lead the poster out of depression and addiction without killing themselves, which is supressed here by he prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung. There were about 42,000 people that were killed by psychotropic drugs just last year alone. And next yesar it is predicted to be more, for the advertising by the drug manufacturers increases the number of people taking the drugs. And what good would it do to tell the poster here to take another drug? The poster goes back to the psychiatrsit/doctor and says that people on "Dr Bob's" say to take such and such. The one treating then has been giving the wrong drugs to the poster? The treatment doctor does not know what to do? The members here know more than the treating psychiatrist? And what if the member has the drug already from a previous prescription or worse gets it illegally, and takes the advise here and bypasses the treating psychiatrist, takes the drug and dies?
It is my deep conviction that if the prohibitions posted to me here by Mr Hsiung were never made to me, that lives could have been saved in the past, lives could be saved now, and lives could be saved in the future.
Lou
Posted by Phil on November 25, 2012, at 10:37:22
In reply to Lou's reply-pseheyv » Phil, posted by Lou Pilder on November 25, 2012, at 8:58:16
You make some good points Lou.
Posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 15:52:54
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » schleprock, posted by hansi555 on November 25, 2012, at 3:41:42
> > Lou, I'm afraid I can't argue with you about it this time.
> >
> > Anyway, it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to the max recommended dose of nortriptyline (150mg - 3 50mg pills); you're doctor should have kept you on this dose from the beginning. The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term.
> Lithium could screw you up for the long term too, but it might not if you're bi-polar. You might want to try a benzo like clonazepam, as they're less risky, as are anticonvulsants like neurontin or Lyrica.
>
> Thanks for your inputs
> What do you mean by: The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. ???
> That I can go back to before or that I can use this drug long term?
>
> I am not bi-polar. Why can Lithium screw me up long term too? Lithium is something completely different to Abilify as far as I know???
>
>Abilify seems to have destabalized you, I would stay far away from it. Now you need to find some sort of medication to make up for what Abilify did. And if you're not bi-polar, stay even farther away from Lithium!
Posted by hansi555 on November 25, 2012, at 16:33:51
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » hansi555, posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 15:52:54
> > > Lou, I'm afraid I can't argue with you about it this time.
> > >
> > > Anyway, it certainly wouldn't hurt to go to the max recommended dose of nortriptyline (150mg - 3 50mg pills); you're doctor should have kept you on this dose from the beginning. The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term.
> > Lithium could screw you up for the long term too, but it might not if you're bi-polar. You might want to try a benzo like clonazepam, as they're less risky, as are anticonvulsants like neurontin or Lyrica.
> >
> > Thanks for your inputs
> > What do you mean by: The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. ???
> > That I can go back to before or that I can use this drug long term?
> >
> > I am not bi-polar. Why can Lithium screw me up long term too? Lithium is something completely different to Abilify as far as I know???
> >
> >
>
> Abilify seems to have destabalized you, I would stay far away from it. Now you need to find some sort of medication to make up for what Abilify did. And if you're not bi-polar, stay even farther away from Lithium!Could you explain a bit more here? I dont get it -thought Lithium combined with an AD could keep one out of depressions long term? Are there any similarities w Abilify which is an anti-psycothic?
Posted by baseball55 on November 25, 2012, at 18:22:38
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd » schleprock, posted by hansi555 on November 25, 2012, at 3:41:42
I've taken abilify and lithium and they had no long term effects. The idea that psych meds can permanently damage you is just fear-mongering. There's no evidence whatsover for it.
> What do you mean by: The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. ???
> That I can go back to before or that I can use this drug long term?
>
> I am not bi-polar. Why can Lithium screw me up long term too? Lithium is something completely different to Abilify as far as I know???
>
>
Posted by schleprock on November 25, 2012, at 19:12:55
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by baseball55 on November 25, 2012, at 18:22:38
> I've taken abilify and lithium and they had no long term effects. The idea that psych meds can permanently damage you is just fear-mongering. There's no evidence whatsover for it.
>
> > What do you mean by: The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term. ???
> > That I can go back to before or that I can use this drug long term?
> >
> > I am not bi-polar. Why can Lithium screw me up long term too? Lithium is something completely different to Abilify as far as I know???
> >
> >
>
>I would have believed you four years ago.
Posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:21:43
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by schleprock on November 24, 2012, at 20:56:48
with all due respect schleprock, please don't make comments like "The Abilify has probably screwed you up for the long term."
You have NO basis for saying that, and your opinion is completely without evidence.
It's totally wrong to put that one someone else, particularly someone you don't know, and who, even if you did know him, would not be your patient, as you are not a doctor.
Posted by Willful on November 25, 2012, at 19:23:45
In reply to Re: Lou's response-lytbrgayd, posted by baseball55 on November 25, 2012, at 18:22:38
I totally agree with this.
Fear -mongering and claiming someone could kill himself based on- nothing-- -is a very bad idea and certainly not helpful.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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