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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
I've just had a second ADHD specialist confirm that I have ADD (PI).
Here's the thing: Concerta has makes me so tired I was bedridden for a lot of the time I was on it (about 3 years !) I also nearly completed a suicide attempt over Christmas, at least partly brought on by terrible insomnia, which Concerta produces. It may have also exacerbated depression. I was fine as long as I was in my own little bubble, but felt very uncomfortable around others.
Now I'm trying dexedrine for the second time, as It's the only stimulant based alternative to methyphenidate where I live, and am having a number of issues.
- It doesn't help distraction, but increases it (at 5 mg b.i.d).
- Whilst igniting the desire to read, it makes it no less difficult. I have longstanding issues with sitting down to read something which is a means to an end (like reading an instruction manual to make music on Logic) rather than immediately gratifying (like researching drug treatments online)
It's very difficult not to skim read text as I impatiently seach for the "meat" in a paragraph. Though not peripherally stimulating per se, on dexedrine my mind is moving too quickly for my brain to settle on and absorb each sentence. Reading fiction, which I rarely do anyway (which is a great sadness to me) is a complete turn off.
- Higher doses just worsen the problem, I startle at noises, or quickly find pointless things to do to appease some of the frustration felt from not being able to settle down to something more edifying.
- Allowing the 2.5 hour window of "therapeutic", or, as I'm starting to believe, hedonic, effect to pass might help this, but I wouldn't know, as by this point I'm what is technically termed as "crashing". This could be more precisely defined as a sudden awareness of lack of positive affect, presumably contrasting with the the state before it, but which, due to various complications (see above) I was not aware of at the time. I begin to experience the scattered thoughts, negative rumination and free-floating anxiety this implies; back to square one.
- Add to this the logistical difficulties Dex presents in that the final dose must taken be 10 hours before you plan on sleeping (based on its average half-life)- and you have rather a difficult chemical to work with.
I'm starting to think I'm not ADHD at all: why is my mind racing when it should be calmed? Why am I actually more distracted. Why am I all of sudden irressistively attracted to playing Call of duty: Modern warfare?
Posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:21:19
In reply to Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
Lots of niggling errors in above post. Why couldn't I have checked it properly before clicking. Honestly? Whilst there might be light-hearted inflections above, I say what I say with a heavy heart.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 11:23:43
In reply to Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
> I've just had a second ADHD specialist confirm that I have ADD (PI).
>
> Here's the thing: Concerta has makes me so tired I was bedridden for a lot of the time I was on it (about 3 years !) I also nearly completed a suicide attempt over Christmas, at least partly brought on by terrible insomnia, which Concerta produces. It may have also exacerbated depression. I was fine as long as I was in my own little bubble, but felt very uncomfortable around others.
>
> Now I'm trying dexedrine for the second time, as It's the only stimulant based alternative to methyphenidate where I live, and am having a number of issues.
>
> - It doesn't help distraction, but increases it (at 5 mg b.i.d).
>
> - Whilst igniting the desire to read, it makes it no less difficult. I have longstanding issues with sitting down to read something which is a means to an end (like reading an instruction manual to make music on Logic) rather than immediately gratifying (like researching drug treatments online)
>
> It's very difficult not to skim read text as I impatiently seach for the "meat" in a paragraph. Though not peripherally stimulating per se, on dexedrine my mind is moving too quickly for my brain to settle on and absorb each sentence. Reading fiction, which I rarely do anyway (which is a great sadness to me) is a complete turn off.
>
> - Higher doses just worsen the problem, I startle at noises, or quickly find pointless things to do to appease some of the frustration felt from not being able to settle down to something more edifying.
>
> - Allowing the 2.5 hour window of "therapeutic", or, as I'm starting to believe, hedonic, effect to pass might help this, but I wouldn't know, as by this point I'm what is technically termed as "crashing". This could be more precisely defined as a sudden awareness of lack of positive affect, presumably contrasting with the the state before it, but which, due to various complications (see above) I was not aware of at the time. I begin to experience the scattered thoughts, negative rumination and free-floating anxiety this implies; back to square one.
>
> - Add to this the logistical difficulties Dex presents in that the final dose must taken be 10 hours before you plan on sleeping (based on its average half-life)- and you have rather a difficult chemical to work with.
>
> I'm starting to think I'm not ADHD at all: why is my mind racing when it should be calmed? Why am I actually more distracted. Why am I all of sudden irressistively attracted to playing Call of duty: Modern warfare?West,
You wrote,[...Concerta..on it (about 3 years!)...nearly completed a suicide...exacerbated depression...dexadrine..increses it...just worsen the problem...].
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2012, at 12:02:52
In reply to Re: Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:21:19
Sounds more like anxiety most likely from a stimulant. I tend to agree with you wrong diagnosis. Phillipa
Posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 14:13:37
In reply to Lou's response- » West, posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 11:23:43
All good points Lou (or me, should I say).
It's not like I haven't experienced symptomatic relief from stimulants, I could concentrate on Concerta, and its impact on mood was initially positive, but it made me feel zonked, and also produced a degree of anxiety, mainly around others.
I suffer from poor attention/memory retention, low pleasure and motivation, which is just as likely to stem from an attentional disorder as it is depression, if what we are led to believe, that both stem from insufficient dopamine levels in the prefrontal cortex. I should add that both dignoses' are from adult ADHD specialists and are ADHD (PI) with Depression.
You can check my school reports from 6 1/2 up; bright pupil, easily distracted, distracts others, struggles with learning basic concepts required for arithmetic, has to have material explained several times, etc etc.
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 14:35:00
In reply to Re: Lou's response-, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 14:13:37
> All good points Lou (or me, should I say).
>
> It's not like I haven't experienced symptomatic relief from stimulants, I could concentrate on Concerta, and its impact on mood was initially positive, but it made me feel zonked, and also produced a degree of anxiety, mainly around others.
>
> I suffer from poor attention/memory retention, low pleasure and motivation, which is just as likely to stem from an attentional disorder as it is depression, if what we are led to believe, that both stem from insufficient dopamine levels in the prefrontal cortex. I should add that both dignoses' are from adult ADHD specialists and are ADHD (PI) with Depression.
>
> You can check my school reports from 6 1/2 up; bright pupil, easily distracted, distracts others, struggles with learning basic concepts required for arithmetic, has to have material explained several times, etc etc.
>
> Hi West,
I sometimes post what the member wrote and then follow with my response on the next post, as long as I do not have to do something else which is what happened here. I intend to post to your situation from my perspective ASAP.
Lou
Posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 14:48:32
In reply to Lou's reply-wilrespon » West, posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 14:35:00
Posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 15:39:12
In reply to Lou's response- » West, posted by Lou Pilder on March 24, 2012, at 11:23:43
> > I've just had a second ADHD specialist confirm that I have ADD (PI).
> >
> > Here's the thing: Concerta has makes me so tired I was bedridden for a lot of the time I was on it (about 3 years !) I also nearly completed a suicide attempt over Christmas, at least partly brought on by terrible insomnia, which Concerta produces. It may have also exacerbated depression. I was fine as long as I was in my own little bubble, but felt very uncomfortable around others.
> >
> > Now I'm trying dexedrine for the second time, as It's the only stimulant based alternative to methyphenidate where I live, and am having a number of issues.
> >
> > - It doesn't help distraction, but increases it (at 5 mg b.i.d).
> >
> > - Whilst igniting the desire to read, it makes it no less difficult. I have longstanding issues with sitting down to read something which is a means to an end (like reading an instruction manual to make music on Logic) rather than immediately gratifying (like researching drug treatments online)
> >
> > It's very difficult not to skim read text as I impatiently seach for the "meat" in a paragraph. Though not peripherally stimulating per se, on dexedrine my mind is moving too quickly for my brain to settle on and absorb each sentence. Reading fiction, which I rarely do anyway (which is a great sadness to me) is a complete turn off.
> >
> > - Higher doses just worsen the problem, I startle at noises, or quickly find pointless things to do to appease some of the frustration felt from not being able to settle down to something more edifying.
> >
> > - Allowing the 2.5 hour window of "therapeutic", or, as I'm starting to believe, hedonic, effect to pass might help this, but I wouldn't know, as by this point I'm what is technically termed as "crashing". This could be more precisely defined as a sudden awareness of lack of positive affect, presumably contrasting with the the state before it, but which, due to various complications (see above) I was not aware of at the time. I begin to experience the scattered thoughts, negative rumination and free-floating anxiety this implies; back to square one.
> >
> > - Add to this the logistical difficulties Dex presents in that the final dose must taken be 10 hours before you plan on sleeping (based on its average half-life)- and you have rather a difficult chemical to work with.
> >
> > I'm starting to think I'm not ADHD at all: why is my mind racing when it should be calmed? Why am I actually more distracted. Why am I all of sudden irressistively attracted to playing Call of duty: Modern warfare?
>
> West,
> You wrote,[...Concerta..on it (about 3 years!)...nearly completed a suicide...exacerbated depression...dexadrine..increses it...just worsen the problem...].
>West,
The drug, Concerta, is a new name for an old drug that has been made to be a time-released version of Ritalin.
The drug has similar phamacological properties as cocaine and amphetamine. The withdrawal from the drug could induce a mind-altered state for the taker of the drug and also the insomnia.
I wanted to do an exposition on the {phenethylamines} but was stopped by Mr. Hsiung as he has made a prohibition to me that excludes what I would need to include. This prohibition, then, could prevent me from posting to your post here in a manner that i think could be helpful.
But be it as it may be, dexedrine goes into the amphetamine class and brings up more concerns to me here because of what you wrote about suicide attampt.
Here is a link to a site that catalogs suicide attempts.
Lou
http://www.ehealthme.com/ds/dexedrine/suicide+attempt
Posted by Emily Elizabeth on March 24, 2012, at 20:31:47
In reply to Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
Being more distracted on dex would be a very unusual reaction.
Being dx'd by two adult ADHD experts is sort of a mixed bag. On one hand, they should know ADHD when they see it. However, I think some experts on disorders tend to think everyone that they see has that disorder. I can't remember exactly the phrase...something like when you have a hammer, everything looks like a nail?
Racing thoughts always sets off bipolar alarm bells for me. Has this been explored? Do you have any family hx of bp or substance abuse?
Were these experts physicians or psychologists? How did they dx you? Interview alone or objective and self report tests in addition?
Best,
EE
Posted by creepy on March 30, 2012, at 10:13:41
In reply to Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
becoming sleepy on stims is pretty normal in ADHD. you might want to fiddle with the dose or try another.
some people do well with their ADD symptoms but their depression and anxiety may get worse on stims. I know I tend to get a little irritable and stressed out on them so I try to limit how much I take and when. Keeping a mood / med log might help.
What is your thought process like when you are at rest? do you have lots of junk thoughts and internal distractions? That might be a small sign towards a hypomanic reaction. I get like this on some antidepressants so I have to be careful.
increased startle may be related to hyperarousal that happens with meds that increase NE. some of us are very sensitive to that effect myself included.
I didnt think methylphenidate was heavy on NE but I think its probably more complex than that. dexedrine is supposedly more focused on dopamine. adderall more so on NE. some of this is second-hand info I havent been able to find anything I trust 100% to back it up.
Posted by phidippus on April 3, 2012, at 19:01:10
In reply to Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by West on March 24, 2012, at 11:12:22
>why is my mind racing when it should be calmed? >Why am I actually more distracted. Why am I all of >sudden irressistively attracted to playing Call of >duty: Modern warfare?
Because you're bipolar and the dex is making your brain squirt a bunch of dopamine all over the place. The Modern Warfare thing is all due to your testicles.
Eric
Posted by Novelagent on April 7, 2012, at 0:35:48
In reply to Re: Dexedrine making me more distracted, posted by creepy on March 30, 2012, at 10:13:41
Inattentiveness/distractability is a sign of toxicity of the stimulant.
Here are the top doses anyone should limit themselves to:
Adderall: 40mg per say, per PDR
Desoxyn: 20-25mg/day, per PDR
Dexedrine: per Medscape drugs database, "60mg max, but most shouldn't need more than 40mg" (note: 60mg is example of excessively liberal dosing range)
Ritalin: i forget. 60mg ten years ago once sparked controversy when a doc in a journal suggested it, saying it worked well in his patients; now concerta, thanks to dose creep (when pharma sales people get lazy, they increase revenue by telling docs they should just prescribe higher doses and find new studies to support it).
*If you see a long post on here, it's 100% due to a stimulant.*
This is the end of the thread.
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