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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Zyprexa on February 4, 2012, at 22:58:52
In reply to One more thing.., posted by tensor on February 4, 2012, at 4:06:26
yes I took zyprexa and abilify at the same time for a while, then stoped the abilify. I went cold turky off abilify and suffered a major withdraw stage where I needed a higher dose of zyprexa for a while, a much higher dose, 30-50mg.
Posted by Zyprexa on February 4, 2012, at 23:02:41
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » Zyprexa, posted by tensor on February 4, 2012, at 4:13:53
I don't know what anticholinergic effects are. Isn't remeron a TCA? I tried to swtich zyprexa for remeron and had a bad experience. NIghtmares.
Posted by Zyprexa on February 4, 2012, at 23:06:32
In reply to Re: One more thing.. » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 4, 2012, at 8:32:28
If you do zyprexa and fluoxitine. I found a major difference between brand Prozac and the generic. The brand of coarse is much better.
Posted by tensor on February 5, 2012, at 3:23:25
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa, posted by Zyprexa on February 4, 2012, at 23:02:41
Posted by SLS on February 5, 2012, at 5:47:17
In reply to Re: One more thing.., posted by Zyprexa on February 4, 2012, at 22:58:52
> yes I took zyprexa and abilify at the same time for a while, then stoped the abilify. I went cold turky off abilify and suffered a major withdraw stage where I needed a higher dose of zyprexa for a while, a much higher dose, 30-50mg.
That's interesting. Abilify is much more potent than Zyprexa at binding to the D2 receptor. Perhaps there was a supersensitivity thing going on there. Unlike Zyprexa, Abilify also binds to the D3 receptor. Any withdrawal effects coming from this would probably not be counteracted by Zyprexa.
Did you feel that Zyprexa was less potent while you were taking Abilify?
These are just musings. I make no claim as to the validity of any of my theories.
- Scott
Posted by tensor on February 5, 2012, at 9:10:58
In reply to Re: One more thing.. » Zyprexa, posted by SLS on February 5, 2012, at 5:47:17
> > yes I took zyprexa and abilify at the same time for a while, then stoped the abilify. I went cold turky off abilify and suffered a major withdraw stage where I needed a higher dose of zyprexa for a while, a much higher dose, 30-50mg.
>
> That's interesting. Abilify is much more potent than Zyprexa at binding to the D2 receptor. Perhaps there was a supersensitivity thing going on there. Unlike Zyprexa, Abilify also binds to the D3 receptor. Any withdrawal effects coming from this would probably not be counteracted by Zyprexa.I thought Zyprexa binds to D1-D4.
http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v05s03/v05s0302.pdf
http://www.psychresidentonline.com/atypical%20antipsychotics.htm
http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=175102> These are just musings. I make no claim as to the validity of any of my theories.
Got it. :)
Posted by SLS on February 5, 2012, at 10:03:05
In reply to Re: One more thing.. » SLS, posted by tensor on February 5, 2012, at 9:10:58
> > Unlike Zyprexa, Abilify also binds to the D3 receptor.
> I thought Zyprexa binds to D1-D4.
Thanks for checking me on that. I really like the links you provided.
> http://www.psychiatrist.com/pcc/pccpdf/v05s03/v05s0302.pdf
> http://www.psychresidentonline.com/atypical%20antipsychotics.htm
> http://ajp.psychiatryonline.org/article.aspx?articleid=175102
- Scott
Posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 0:47:16
In reply to Thinking of Zyprexa, posted by tensor on February 3, 2012, at 8:14:15
Just talked to my pdoc, starting Zyprexa 5mg tonight instead of Abilify. Hopefully it will work better.
Posted by Zyprexa on February 6, 2012, at 6:07:46
In reply to Re: One more thing.. » Zyprexa, posted by SLS on February 5, 2012, at 5:47:17
Yes, zyprexa was almost useless while on or for a little while afterwards of being on abilify.
Posted by SLS on February 6, 2012, at 6:27:16
In reply to Re: One more thing.. » SLS, posted by Zyprexa on February 6, 2012, at 6:07:46
> Yes, zyprexa was almost useless while on or for a little while afterwards of being on abilify.
Thank you for reporting that. It helps me in my efforts to figure this stuff out.
It is too bad that Jeroen continues to ignore my pleas that he discontinue Abilify and add back Seroquel. I have been suggesting that he do this for at least two years. I am tempted to give up trying. Unfortunately, I can't offer him guarantees.
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 6, 2012, at 6:35:33
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa, posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 0:47:16
>Just talked to my pdoc, starting Zyprexa 5mg tonight instead of Abilify. Hopefully it will work better.
I hope so too :)
Posted by SLS on February 6, 2012, at 7:49:08
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa, posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 0:47:16
> Just talked to my pdoc, starting Zyprexa 5mg tonight instead of Abilify. Hopefully it will work better.
Are you planning on tapering Abilify?
If you are doing a cross-over substitution from Abilify to Zyprexa, you might want to be aware that there might be a temporary mild-to-moderate increase in depression or anxiety. It would probably be tolerable and transient, but I wouldn't want you to mistake Abilify withdrawal for a negative reaction to Zyprexa.
- Scott
Posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 9:42:00
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » tensor, posted by SLS on February 6, 2012, at 7:49:08
> Are you planning on tapering Abilify?
>
> If you are doing a cross-over substitution from Abilify to Zyprexa, you might want to be aware that there might be a temporary mild-to-moderate increase in depression or anxiety. It would probably be tolerable and transient, but I wouldn't want you to mistake Abilify withdrawal for a negative reaction to Zyprexa.
>
>
> - ScottThanks for the advice and heads up. I won't cross-titrate but switch right off. I actually took 5mg of Zyprexa this morning and I could feel a decrease in anxiety within an hour, I couldn't wait to bedtime, was too dysphoric. Will take it at bedtime from now on.
Actually it's Ratiopharm generic olanzapine, cost me a little over 3, a *bit* cheaper than the brand Zyprexa./t
Posted by SLS on February 6, 2012, at 11:25:39
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » SLS, posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 9:42:00
> I actually took 5mg of Zyprexa this morning and I could feel a decrease in anxiety within an hour, I couldn't wait to bedtime, was too dysphoric. Will take it at bedtime from now on.
Good luck!
- Scott
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 8:01:05
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » SLS, posted by tensor on February 6, 2012, at 9:42:00
How are you doing Tensor?
Posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 8:09:44
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » tensor, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 8:01:05
> How are you doing Tensor?
Thanks for asking. I took my third dose of 5mg yesterday, and it hasn't helped my lack of motivation and interest. My pdoc suggested 5 or 10mg and I chose 5mg, not sure if I should up the dosage or wait a little longer.
I sleep well, but no increase in hunger. I still have restlessness but I think it's because of Abilify lingering in my body./t
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 10:08:51
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 8:09:44
>it hasn't helped my lack of motivation and interest....
What sort of things do you struggle with most?
>My pdoc suggested 5 or 10mg and I chose 5mg, not sure if I should up the dosage or wait a little longer.
Even though Zyprexa generally works quite quickly, it's still very early days. I suppose you won't know how Zyprexa affects you on its own until Abilify is out of your system.
Posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 10:17:52
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » tensor, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 10:08:51
> >it hasn't helped my lack of motivation and interest....
>
> What sort of things do you struggle with most?Fatigue, not enough energy to get things done, basic things like cooking food. I have an increase in anxiety now.
> >My pdoc suggested 5 or 10mg and I chose 5mg, not sure if I should up the dosage or wait a little longer.
>
> Even though Zyprexa generally works quite quickly, it's still very early days. I suppose you won't know how Zyprexa affects you on its own until Abilify is out of your system.
>Do you think it would be a bad idea taking 10mg tonight, I'm desperate. Maybe a higher dose would counteract any Abilify withdrawals? Took last 7.5mg of Abilify at Saturday evening.
Thanks.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 12:00:27
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 10:17:52
>Fatigue, not enough energy to get things done, basic things like cooking food. I have an increase in anxiety now.
Do you still feel very depressed emotionally or does it feel more like a chronic fatigue state?
>Do you think it would be a bad idea taking 10mg tonight, I'm desperate. Maybe a higher dose would counteract any Abilify withdrawals? Took last 7.5mg of Abilify at Saturday evening.
Do you think you are having Abilify withdrawal symptoms after such a short time on it? I think I higher dose of Zyprexa might help your anxiety, unless it causes akathisia.
Posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 12:17:34
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » tensor, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 12:00:27
> Do you still feel very depressed emotionally or does it feel more like a chronic fatigue state?
Chronic fatigue state for sure, but it has started to get to me emotionally too after so long time.
> Do you think you are having Abilify withdrawal symptoms after such a short time on it? I think I higher dose of Zyprexa might help your anxiety, unless it causes akathisia.I don't know, maybe it's some form of rebound anxiety, although it wasn't that good for anxiety. I'll take 10mg of Zyprexa tonight and see how I feel tomorrow. Some extra clonazepam are pretty good against restlessness.
/t
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 13:49:36
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 12:17:34
>Chronic fatigue state for sure, but it has started to get to me emotionally too after so long time.
Have you tried anything like modafinil? I don't remember. Also, do you do any exercise?
>I'll take 10mg of Zyprexa tonight and see how I feel tomorrow. Some extra clonazepam are pretty good against restlessness.
Best of luck. Clonazepam will probably help the restlessness but does it make you more tired?
Posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 14:01:03
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » tensor, posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 13:49:36
> Have you tried anything like modafinil? I don't remember. Also, do you do any exercise?
I had a long episode of luck with modafinil, but it stopped working after almost a year, have tried it now and then and actually a week ago, but does very little. Increases focus and reduces appetite, that's all. Exercise is a little low right now but did a lot of it in the fall, but failed to see any notable benefits for my energy and mood, actually kind of drained me of energy instead.
> Best of luck. Clonazepam will probably help the restlessness but does it make you more tired?
>I took 7.5mg, so bedtime soon. Yes, clon makes me more tired, it's a trade-off as usual. Thanks Ed.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on February 8, 2012, at 14:43:28
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 14:01:03
>I had a long episode of luck with modafinil, but it stopped working after almost a year, have tried it now and then and actually a week ago, but does very little. Increases focus and reduces appetite, that's all.
I suppose a different stimulant could help, possibly a lot in the short term, but the benefits might not last.
Anyway, sleep well!
Posted by papillon2 on February 9, 2012, at 23:40:31
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa » ed_uk2010, posted by tensor on February 8, 2012, at 8:09:44
> I sleep well, but no increase in hunger.
Zyprexa can make you gain weight even if you have no increase in appetite or food intake. It does this by changing the way your body processes sugars and fats. As such, while it is good to monitor your appetite and hunger, it would be wise to jump on a scale once a week to keep track of your weight.
Additionally, if you haven't had it done yet, it would be prudent to get your baseline cholesterol, trigliceride and fasting blood sugar levels checked so you can monitor these too over time.
Posted by tensor on February 10, 2012, at 3:48:16
In reply to Re: Thinking of Zyprexa, posted by papillon2 on February 9, 2012, at 23:40:31
> > I sleep well, but no increase in hunger.
>
> Zyprexa can make you gain weight even if you have no increase in appetite or food intake. It does this by changing the way your body processes sugars and fats. As such, while it is good to monitor your appetite and hunger, it would be wise to jump on a scale once a week to keep track of your weight.
>
> Additionally, if you haven't had it done yet, it would be prudent to get your baseline cholesterol, trigliceride and fasting blood sugar levels checked so you can monitor these too over time.Thanks for bringing this up, because I've been thinking of this. My daily calorie intake is below my calculated resting metabolic rate, is it even possible to gain weight under such circumstances? I eat a very healthy diet, no added sugar, no candy.
We did a baseline about a month ago, and the values were within reference, although I was on Abilify back then, don't know if that skewed the values in some way./t
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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