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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 13:44:15
Hi, I am interested in using low dose modafinil in the morning to improve motivation or energy to do things.
I tried 100 mg and 50 mg. Sometimes it works but not always.
Today is the second day on 50 mg. I was feeling very bad until I eat some cake. Maybe stimulants require glucose?. I take coffee for breakfast and did not eat immediately, maybe a mistake.
I am scared about the side effects of modafinil I read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Side_effects
Maybe something like guaranį or ginseng is safer.
I take low dose alprazolam at night.
Posted by Peter Heuer on January 3, 2012, at 17:19:08
In reply to Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 13:44:15
Have you tried Wellbutrin?
Peter Heuer
Posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 17:23:41
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by Peter Heuer on January 3, 2012, at 17:19:08
> Have you tried Wellbutrin?
>
> Peter HeuerNo. I had problems with SSRIs and I am not sure if I want to try another AD and get side effects, besides Dr thought Wellbutrin could make me nervous.
Posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2012, at 18:41:03
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Peter Heuer, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 17:23:41
Franz it can cause anxiety did to me. Will read your link on providigil. Jan/P
Posted by Tony P on January 3, 2012, at 23:53:08
In reply to Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 13:44:15
Modafinil at low doses (50-150 mg/day) works very well for me. I find it is an excellent AD supplement, helpful with many problems - mental clarity, anhedonia, sleep disturbances ... I could go on! If my experience (& a couple of my friends) is anything to go by, it should be much more widely prescribed -- I suspect there's a marketing/profit margin issue, but then I'm into conspiracy theories!
It is a funny drug; I find you have to work with it for it to work for you. What I mean is, I can take 50-100 mg and then go back to sleep or read in bed all day, both of which usually leave me MORE depressed, but if I take it and then get up and do _something_ (almost anything) positive &/or active, it kicks in and I feel great and get lots done.
I wouldn't be scared by the side-effect profile, almost any effective med. has a VERY scary list of S-E if you read the fine print. In my experience and in what I have read it is much safer than Adderal, methylphenidate & other amphetamine-type stimulants, or Wellbutrin.
Wellbutrin may be a great med for some people but I can't tolerate it. I'm very sensitive to stimulants and Wb gave me anxiety, insomnia and even mania. Modafinil by contrast is very gentle and has a low addiction potential.
I started out taking 2-300 mg/day Modafinil, but I was on a high dose of Clonazepam at the time. Now that I'm down to <20 mg Valium/day, I find 50 mg Modafinil is often all I need to get me going, maybe with a cup of coffee as well.
BTW, coffee on an empty stomach or with a high-carb meal that has a lot of sugar or processed carbohydrates is a recipe for a low blood sugar crash an hour later - anxiety, shakes, drowsiness, weakness -- easy to confuse with medication side-effects or an anxiety attack. When I'm sensible I start my day with a _moderate_ amount of coffee and no-sugar whole grain muesli with sugar-free yogurt or something similar; even good old bacon & eggs is great for keeping your blood sugar level so long as you don't have a cholesterol problem.
I never take more than 100 mg Modafinil at a time, and only occasionally feel the need for a 50 mg booster dose in the late afternoon. But I have had to work at a routine that makes it really effective; it won't FORCE you to feel better!
Good luck,
Tony
Posted by Franz on January 4, 2012, at 9:39:56
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Franz, posted by Phillipa on January 3, 2012, at 18:41:03
> Franz it can cause anxiety did to me. Will read your link on providigil. Jan/P
Thanks Phillipa, sometimes for me too, it varies from day to day.
Posted by Franz on January 4, 2012, at 10:07:01
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Franz, posted by Tony P on January 3, 2012, at 23:53:08
> Modafinil at low doses (50-150 mg/day) works very well for me. I find it is an excellent AD supplement, helpful with many problems - mental clarity, anhedonia, sleep disturbances ... I could go on!
Yes it seems some Drs are using it this way. They also use it themselves when they travel to congresses and want to stay up late and assist/ talk the next day.
> If my experience (& a couple of my friends) is anything to go by, it should be much more widely prescribed -- I suspect there's a marketing/profit margin issue, but then I'm into conspiracy theories!
Maybe a prejudice against stimulants.
>
> It is a funny drug; I find you have to work with it for it to work for you. What I mean is, I can take 50-100 mg and then go back to sleep or read in bed all day, both of which usually leave me MORE depressed, but if I take it and then get up and do _something_ (almost anything) positive &/or active, it kicks in and I feel great and get lots done.Good advice. It did not work for me yesterday at 50 mg. I could not do anything useful.
>
> I wouldn't be scared by the side-effect profile, almost any effective med. has a VERY scary list of S-E if you read the fine print.Right, but they make me worry and start to search the web for info, etc Must be part of my problem.
> In my experience and in what I have read it is much safer than Adderal, methylphenidate & other amphetamine-type stimulants, or Wellbutrin.
>
> Wellbutrin may be a great med for some people but I can't tolerate it. I'm very sensitive to stimulants and Wb gave me anxiety, insomnia and even mania. Modafinil by contrast is very gentle and has a low addiction potential.Good to know! Dr did not give me Wellbutrin because he thought will make me anxious.
I am sensitive to stimulants too and most times they make me tired e.g. caffeine, selegiline.
An alternative could be herbs like ginseng or guarana. I tried guarana and it seems to work sometimes. Maybe it is a safer alternative to modafinil.
>
> I started out taking 2-300 mg/day Modafinil,Wow, too much for me.
>but I was on a high dose of Clonazepam at the time. Now that I'm down to <20 mg Valium/day,
Why the change from clonazepam to valium? I take .25 mg alprazolam at night and sometimes during the day. I don“t like to take higher doses. Clonazepam depresses me, too bad because it is a safer benzo it seems.
> I find 50 mg Modafinil is often all I need to get me going, maybe with a cup of coffee as well.Good. I was thinking it there was any bad interaction, like increased anxiety.
>
> BTW, coffee on an empty stomach or with a high-carb meal that has a lot of sugar or processed carbohydrates is a recipe for a low blood sugar crash an hour later - anxiety, shakes, drowsiness, weakness -- easy to confuse with medication side-effects or an anxiety attack.Thanks. I should watch that. the problem is that I take T4 for thyroid and one has to wait to eat.
I take coffee, tea, etc without sugar but empty stomach is not good either it seems.
> When I'm sensible I start my day with a _moderate_ amount of coffee and no-sugar whole grain muesli with sugar-free yogurt or something similar; even good old bacon & eggs is great for keeping your blood sugar level so long as you don't have a cholesterol problem.
>I usually take fruit and milk.
> I never take more than 100 mg Modafinil at a time, and only occasionally feel the need for a 50 mg booster dose in the late afternoon. But I have had to work at a routine that makes it really effective; it won't FORCE you to feel better!
Sometimes I can“t start a routine due to depressive thoughts. Tasks look immense and meaningless and I don“t feel the energy to do them. I feel sad and slow. I don“t know what it is, I start to worry, feel bad, anxious and my body gets heavy and move slow.
I decided to try 50 mg modafinil for some days to see if it helps create habits.
>
> Good luck,
> Tony
>Thanks a lot, very helpful!
Posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2012, at 8:50:38
In reply to Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 13:44:15
For what you are interested in gaining, I can think of no better shining star than Rhodiola Rosea. You mentioned ginsengs and such....sorry but I just haven't seen any of these highly touted herbs dramatically help anyone ever. Authors claim they do, but I haven't seen it or heard of it personally. Rhodiola is a different story. The other adaptogens or energy boosters might be good for longterm (6 months minimum) but I do not see them as being very useful for short term. Jitteriness, depression, side effects, fatigue, new symptoms,.....lots of bizarre things can happen with some of these popular herbs. For example in the book Healing Lyme, second only to massage the author says he has seen Siberian Ginseng being the next best thing for depression and energy. But it has to be the strong version of the tincture and fairly stout doses....not the pills. Anyway, I gotta tell ya, even small doses of these kinds of things just wreak havoc with me.
Ok, so rhodiola has a lot of good. I would put that at the top of the list.
Modafinil is a fairly safe benign drug, so I wouldn't have any worries about it. Especially at the low doses you mentioned. If it helps you, cool, go with it. Maybe add rhodiola to it for more support and lower modafinil doses.
Another option is Adrafinil, which I personally found more beneficial in terms of depression and energy than modafinil. Adrafinil is the parent drug Modafinil was derived from. I think Adrafinil works better, but slower. When I started it, I got too much jitteriness at first, backed off the dosing and just stuck with it. It soon became invisible....I couldn't feel it doing anythinig, almost like a sugar pill. But a month later it was obvious it had done a lot of good under the surface.
The meds can help motivation and energy, but they can also worsen the situation that created those problems in the first place. They will further tax the liver, and put additional strain on the adrenal glands. That's why I prefer rhodiola, because it has the potential to do what you want and yet at the same time offers an array of other related and unrelated benefits, some of which have to do with correcting the problems related to motivation and energy in the first place.....good for the liver and good for the adrenals, not taxing of either of them.
> Hi, I am interested in using low dose modafinil in the morning to improve motivation or energy to do things.
>
> I tried 100 mg and 50 mg. Sometimes it works but not always.
>
> Today is the second day on 50 mg. I was feeling very bad until I eat some cake. Maybe stimulants require glucose?. I take coffee for breakfast and did not eat immediately, maybe a mistake.
>
> I am scared about the side effects of modafinil I read here http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Modafinil#Side_effects
>
> Maybe something like guaranį or ginseng is safer.
>
> I take low dose alprazolam at night.
>
>
Posted by Franz on January 5, 2012, at 9:51:35
In reply to Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 13:44:15
The novel wake-promoting agent modafinil has been in use for the treatment of several sleep disorders for a few years and is now undergoing clinical trials for its use in the treatment of stimulant addiction, but its primary mechanism of action remains elusive. Previous laboratory studies have shown that modafinil has antioxidative and neuroprotective effects, which have not previously been suggested to be related to its wake-promoting effects. However, recent research indicates that free radicals may be related to sleep induction as well as cellular damage, suggesting that a common target of action may mediate modafinils ability to oppose both of these effects. In this review we summarize and discuss previously published research on modafinils neural, cytoprotective, and cognitive effects, and we propose possible primary biochemical targets that could underlie the effects of modafinil observed in these studies. We also suggest neurocognitive mechanisms responsible for modafinils cognitive enhancing effects and its therapeutic potential in the treatment of stimulant addiction.
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC2654794/ (full article)
Intersting relation to creatine, mitochondria, oxidative stress, serotonin.
Posted by Franz on January 6, 2012, at 9:23:14
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences?, posted by bleauberry on January 5, 2012, at 8:50:38
> For what you are interested in gaining, I can think of no better shining star than Rhodiola Rosea.
Thanks bleauberry. I had great expectations for Rhodiola but I did not felt anything. Maybe it was the brand.
> You mentioned ginsengs and such....sorry but I just haven't seen any of these highly touted herbs dramatically help anyone ever. Authors claim they do, but I haven't seen it or heard of it personally. Rhodiola is a different story. The other adaptogens or energy boosters might be good for longterm (6 months minimum) but I do not see them as being very useful for short term. Jitteriness, depression, side effects, fatigue, new symptoms,.....lots of bizarre things can happen with some of these popular herbs. For example in the book Healing Lyme, second only to massage the author says he has seen Siberian Ginseng being the next best thing for depression and energy. But it has to be the strong version of the tincture and fairly stout doses....not the pills.
Siberian ginseng is eleuterococus right? I very much liked a product I tried. Other did nothing. It was more like a mental stimulant than Korean ginseng. I also liked american ginseng.
> Anyway, I gotta tell ya, even small doses of these kinds of things just wreak havoc with me.
>
> Ok, so rhodiola has a lot of good. I would put that at the top of the list.
>
> Modafinil is a fairly safe benign drug, so I wouldn't have any worries about it. Especially at the low doses you mentioned. If it helps you, cool, go with it. Maybe add rhodiola to it for more support and lower modafinil doses.Thanks for the reassuring comment on modafinil. I will continue the 50 mg. Last night I did not fell asleep easy.
I tried sulbutiamine as stimulant but if I take it several days it puts me in a bad mood, like increased worry or tense. But sulbutiamine looks safer as it is a modified B1
>
> Another option is Adrafinil, which I personally found more beneficial in terms of depression and energy than modafinil. Adrafinil is the parent drug Modafinil was derived from. I think Adrafinil works better, but slower. When I started it, I got too much jitteriness at first, backed off the dosing and just stuck with it. It soon became invisible....I couldn't feel it doing anythinig, almost like a sugar pill. But a month later it was obvious it had done a lot of good under the surface.
>I tried adrafinil and did not felt much, about to be honest I was afraid of it and did not took it long enough. Modafinil you feel it the first day you take it.
> The meds can help motivation and energy, but they can also worsen the situation that created those problems in the first place. They will further tax the liver, and put additional strain on the adrenal glands. That's why I prefer rhodiola, because it has the potential to do what you want and yet at the same time offers an array of other related and unrelated benefits, some of which have to do with correcting the problems related to motivation and energy in the first place.....good for the liver and good for the adrenals, not taxing of either of them.
Too bad I can“t order Rhodiola now. Another herb that can be interesting is rosmarinus, but have to be careful with blood pressure. Maybe I try rosmarinus. For the moment I will continue the low dose modafinil, I need energy to get organized. Do you think I could start rosmarinus while taking the modafinil?.
I have maca powder. I will try low doses because it seems to make me irritable long term. All very subjective :)
Posted by porkpiehat on January 12, 2012, at 13:12:10
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Peter Heuer, posted by Franz on January 3, 2012, at 17:23:41
Adding Welbutrin to my Celexa...while popular...eventually dulled me out, dissociated me, and make me quick to anger. For the first week it made gave me the perfect amount of focus and energy without feeling artificial, and then...blah
Posted by porkpiehat on February 21, 2016, at 19:41:08
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Franz, posted by Tony P on January 3, 2012, at 23:53:08
Three-years later now...anyone still taking this long-term? I am going back to school and my lamictal combo make me do-do dumb. Useless.
Provigil doesn't make me feel particularly speedy, but I can think and focus, and I'm not overcome with obsessive, worried thoughts all the time. Day three, mind you.
Posted by tony p on February 21, 2016, at 22:36:23
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » Tony P, posted by porkpiehat on February 21, 2016, at 19:41:08
> Three-years later now...anyone still taking this long-term? I am going back to school and my lamictal combo make me do-do dumb. Useless.
>
> Provigil doesn't make me feel particularly speedy, but I can think and focus, and I'm not overcome with obsessive, worried thoughts all the time. Day three, mind you.Still taking it, 50mg in AM or 100 if I've slept poorly or have Trazadone hangover ... It definitely clears my head and helps me get active IF I get out of bed & do something! Using it less often recently as I am now on Wellbutrin (low dose added to Lexapro) as of the last 4 weeks & I don't want to get overstimulated. But I still take it as needed and it doesn't seem to -- can't think of the word I want -- interact with the Wb to be more than just additive.
Tony
Posted by porkpiehat on March 7, 2016, at 22:12:40
In reply to Re: Low dose modafinil (Provigil) experiences? » porkpiehat, posted by tony p on February 21, 2016, at 22:36:23
that's great it seems you found a good niche for it. I was getting overstimulated on a tiny amount. New doc smells some degree of bipolar so we are nixing the celexa and any stims.
This is the end of the thread.
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