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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by SLS on July 20, 2011, at 5:57:57
Yes, thank you all very much. And I ask out of my own personal decision as of yesterday to drop Nardil and try viibryd in two weeks that you continue with your experience. Could you also go a little more into any positive changes that you have seen or if any at all from the time of beginning viibryd? I have become frustrated to the point I can't deal with it anymore about the side effect of a spiking hr while standing since I have been on Nardil. I realize I could try different additional meds, but my bp has also been made lower by Nardil so even if I took something like a beta blocker for my hr it wouldn't increase my bp, and at this point I've just got to come to the understanding that Nardil for some reason is always going to have this negative side effect, and without adding more meds and trials and time and still not knowing for sure I will find an answer, i just have to drop it for the physical side effects and hope that the 2 week washout period isn't too killer, and that maybe something else will help the anxiety/depression without changing me so dramatically physically. Just know that people are interesting in your posts, and it can be very beneficial for anyone thinking about trying viibryd. We really don't have much else to go on as far as actual reports from people trying this med.
Thanks Again,
Mantus
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:39:15
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
> Yes, thank you all very much. And I ask out of my own personal decision as of yesterday to drop Nardil and try viibryd in two weeks that you continue with your experience. Could you also go a little more into any positive changes that you have seen or if any at all from the time of beginning viibryd? I have become frustrated to the point I can't deal with it anymore about the side effect of a spiking hr while standing since I have been on Nardil. I realize I could try different additional meds, but my bp has also been made lower by Nardil so even if I took something like a beta blocker for my hr it wouldn't increase my bp, and at this point I've just got to come to the understanding that Nardil for some reason is always going to have this negative side effect, and without adding more meds and trials and time and still not knowing for sure I will find an answer, i just have to drop it for the physical side effects and hope that the 2 week washout period isn't too killer, and that maybe something else will help the anxiety/depression without changing me so dramatically physically. Just know that people are interesting in your posts, and it can be very beneficial for anyone thinking about trying viibryd. We really don't have much else to go on as far as actual reports from people trying this med.
The low BP and spiking heart rate when standing are two sides of the same problem. When you stand up, your body has to compensate for the natural drop in BP. Nardil is inhibiting your normal responses, so your heart beats rapidly to compensate. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_intolerance
A beta blocker would be pushing you in the wrong direction, because it would be inhibiting your BP even more. You would want an adrenergic agonist rather than an antagonist. I don't know what drugs are safe to add to Nardil, but you could ask your doctor about options or look up research on the subject. The problem can be documented with a simple test in the doctor's office. The pdoc might not have a BP cuff, but he/she could take your pulse and feel it jump when you stand.
If you stop Nardil, you'll have to go through a lengthy wash-out period, followed by another one if you want to restart it.
Posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:47:17
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18, posted by mantus on July 20, 2011, at 11:34:12
This is maybe a better article http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Orthostatic_hypotension
The other one is talking about some rare disease. This article treats it as a symptom that can be caused by MAOIs.
"In addition, the heart rate should also be measured for both positions. A significant increase from supine to standing may indicate a compensatory effort by the heart to maintain cardiac output."
Posted by joe schmoe on July 20, 2011, at 15:43:05
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 18 » mantus, posted by mtdewcmu on July 20, 2011, at 13:47:17
Have been feeling some anxiety the last few days ( I've been on 40mg since day 15) and have been taking extra klonopin to counteract it.
I had really bad initial anxiety last time I started up Celexa again (lasted like 19 days or something), which never happened with Celexa before. Strange. I assume this is just another temporary effect of establishing a steady state at the 40mg dose. If I read the literature correctly, Viibryd steady state is achieved in about 3 days which is right about when my anxiety increased (three days after moving up to 40mg).
Side effects are just irritants when you know they are temporary and will pass with time, which I am sure this one is.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
In reply to Viibryd Day 20, posted by joe schmoe on July 20, 2011, at 15:43:05
I think I am getting used to the 40mg dosage now. Side effects are mostly gone, except for some difficulty getting to sleep, still some dizziness/disorientation at times - nothing major, but I am not sure I would want to take it and then go to work, better to take it with dinner. Side effects do seem to be fading with time though. No restless legs yesterday, I usually get them 3-4 hours after my dose.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 21:25:45
In reply to Viibryd Day 24, posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
Forgot to add I still feel some anxiety at times. Nothing like the horrible anxiety I had last time I started Celexa though. That was so bad I ended up switching generic clonazepam brands (to Teva from Mylan) because it felt like the Mylan clonazepam was doing nothing.
Posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2011, at 21:54:43
In reply to Viibryd Day 24, posted by joe schmoe on July 24, 2011, at 20:41:37
Think it will work? Any comparison meds? Phillipa
Posted by joe schmoe on July 25, 2011, at 14:03:10
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 24 » joe schmoe, posted by Phillipa on July 24, 2011, at 21:54:43
> Think it will work? Any comparison meds? Phillipa
Well my mood is very good. Main problem has been difficulty sleeping on some nights, but I also have been having some external factors involved (people with chainsaws trimming trees outside my window in the morning, pets waking me up due to fear of thunderstorms, repaving of the road outside, one thing after another). I'm a night owl so when obnoxiously loud things happen in the morning it always cuts into my sleep time and wakes me up, and I can't get back to sleep.I don't plan to judge this med till I've been on it a couple of months - if I went off Celexa that long I would normally fall into a suicidal depression. In terms of side effects though, it is easily tolerable so far, and sexually there is no comparison, at least so far.
I have tried the other sex-friendly meds (Wellbutrin and Serzone, back when it was available) and Viibryd is far more tolerable than either of them in terms of anxiety/anger or sedation, respectively.
Posted by Phillipa on July 25, 2011, at 19:49:24
In reply to Re: Viibryd Day 24 » Phillipa, posted by joe schmoe on July 25, 2011, at 14:03:10
Other than the external problems sounds encouraging. Phillipa
Posted by Chris O on July 26, 2011, at 5:09:09
In reply to Day 6 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 6, 2011, at 21:12:33
>
> I'm curious what Viibryd feels like to someone starting it "clean." For most people I suspect it will be like it is for me: as much about stopping the previous antidepressant as it is about starting Viibryd.Chris, here. I just started Viibryd "clean" last night. So far (I know, it's only 10mg, but I'm having some side effects), I've got insomina, diarrhea, a bit of anxiety, and dry mouth. I actually felt better before taking the 10mg. I'm pretty treatment resistant w/the SSRIs though, so I'm going to give this a go, or it's onto the Nardil. My last trail was Serzone, 1200mg a day, for about 6 months. I've been off that for 3 months. Let's keep our fingers crossed for this stuff.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
In reply to Re: Day 6 of Viibryd, posted by Chris O on July 26, 2011, at 5:09:09
I have had two brief episodes recently of chest pain, both late at night or early in the morning when going to bed or getting up. Could be heartburn, but it's a kind of pain I last felt while on Wellbutrin, where I used to get long lasting chest tightness and pain along with anxiety. Hopefully this is just another passing side effect.
Had difficulty sleeping again.
Posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
In reply to Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 26, 2011, at 12:23:00
I just have to continue to thank you all for your willingness to talk about your trial. I know that if some of my other physical issues go away, Viibryd will be my next choice and I am extremely interested in seeing how real people respond to it. I again thank you, and hope that you can continue your tril with updates until maybe being on 40mg for a month or so? I know you don't want to keep talking about it forever. :)
Thanks,
Mantus
Posted by joe schmoe on July 27, 2011, at 15:21:47
In reply to Re: Day 26 of Viibryd, posted by mantus on July 27, 2011, at 8:52:19
Had a good night's sleep last night for a change.
In the course of starting Viibryd, I have been cycling on and off tongkat ali and maca as usual. They are still effective, i.e. better sexual sensation and libido when on them than off; they are just more effective than they would have been if I was on Celexa. So I don't think Viibryd by itself is going to get me back to a normal sexual state.
Of course, I am middle aged, so I don't expect to feel 25 again just from quitting celexa, even if I hadn't taken antidepressants for ten years. And I do think the celexa did some permanent damage; I have been off it before, on no AD at all for months at a time, and sexual sensations/libido never returned to what I remember before. I can't expect Viibryd to be better than no AD at all. It's not a sexual stimulant after all, it's an AD. So for those trying it, who see some return of sexual sensations and libido but still want more, I would encourage you to experiment with the various sex-boosters mentioned in this thread and elsewhere.
Also I cycled back onto tongkat ali and maca in the last few days after a week or so off them, and I notice that my sense of taste is affected! Diet sodas now seem sickly sweet while beers have gone from bitter to good-tasting. So I think these herbs or whatever the proper term for them is, have some beneficial effects other than sexual. I think they also can work to correct the oversensitivity to bitter tastes that has been plaguing me the past six months, ruining beer tasting off and on. Don't know why I didn't think of it before, but it is possible my taste experiences have been linked to whether I was "on" or "off" in the herb cycling.
This probably isn't an issue unless you like to consume bitter foods like beer, dark chocolate, coffee, grapefruit etc. but if you find they taste worse on ssris, well, it's no accident. As I mentioned in the first post in this thread, this study found ssris greatly increase the taste sensation of bitterness.
Maybe these supplements are the answer to that problem. I will try to keep track and correlate beer taste with supplement cycling and see.
By the way I have gained weight on Viibryd. Seems to make me hungrier most of the time, especially for sweets. I'm going to have to really watch it if I don't want to balloon up - losing weight will be no joke if this continues.
Posted by joe schmoe on July 29, 2011, at 15:43:37
In reply to Day 27 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 27, 2011, at 15:21:47
Been in a great mood lately. No emotional blunting here, that's for sure.
No chest pains or restless legs or loose bowels either, and no dizziness. No anxiety either. I think the annoying side effects have basically gone away, with the exception of getting to sleep, which can be a challenge sometimes, although staying asleep isn't, fortunately.
The next challenge will be to try to lose some weight on this thing - put a lot on with Celexa and I don't think Viibryd is going to make it any easier to drop it. I can't keep sweets in the house - even stuff I normally dislike like dark chocolate, or I will eat the whole bar in a few hours, a piece at a time.
Posted by Chris O on July 29, 2011, at 16:19:45
In reply to Day 29 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 29, 2011, at 15:43:37
That's good to hear this stuff is working for someone. I'm one day 5ish, and so far, nothing much, except perhaps a bit of activation, which is not really pleasant. I'm going to go up to 40mg in the next couple of days just to see if this stuff works for me. Haven't had much luck with SSRIs at all, but not really ready to do the Nardil thing either.
Posted by markwell on July 30, 2011, at 6:05:31
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 29, 2011, at 16:19:45
What is activation like? I hope that one goes away. Is that why the problem with insomnia?
Mark
Posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 6:45:21
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd, posted by markwell on July 30, 2011, at 6:05:31
The activation is mild compared to, say, Zoloft or Wellbutrin for me. However, it's still there. Insomnia for me is chronic, so I cannot tell if it has changed after 7 days on this med. I have the sleep 2-3 hour sleep/wake pattern I've had for the past decade or so. In terms of sexual side effects, well, those are here for me. Lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm is there, even at Day 7. It also has some anti-anxiety effect, but not great at this point. I'm going to continue to post as this goes on.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 30, 2011, at 10:51:44
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » markwell, posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 6:45:21
> The activation is mild compared to, say, Zoloft or Wellbutrin for me. However, it's still there. Insomnia for me is chronic, so I cannot tell if it has changed after 7 days on this med. I have the sleep 2-3 hour sleep/wake pattern I've had for the past decade or so. In terms of sexual side effects, well, those are here for me. Lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm is there, even at Day 7. It also has some anti-anxiety effect, but not great at this point. I'm going to continue to post as this goes on.
Are you following the normal taper up of 10 mg for a week, 20 mg for a week, and then 40 mg on Day 15? In an earlier post it sounded like you were going to jump to 40mg after a few days.Just trying to clarify what you mean by "Day 7."
Have you had any dizziness?
Posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 15:35:26
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » Chris O, posted by joe schmoe on July 30, 2011, at 10:51:44
Joe:
I've taken 20mg for the last four days. So, I'm on Day 7, the last four days at 20mg. I haven't gone up to 40mg yet. I will probably jump up there in the next few days if I do not feel much of an effect at 20mg. I haven't had any dizziness. No weight gain either. (I just lost 10 pounds after stopping one and a half years of Paxil, then Serzone.) Side effects, so far, seem to be the lack of pleasure/difficulty reaching orgasm, as I mentioned, and some mild activation. I guess I'll just give the stuff a chance and see what happens after a month or so. How are you doing? What do you notice so far in terms of anti-anxiety/antidepression effects? I was going to start Nardil, but decided to give SSRIs one more chance before doing so.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
In reply to Re: Day 29 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 30, 2011, at 15:35:26
Well, done with the starter pack and took my first pill from a prescription bottle today.
Got over 12 hours' sleep last night - good to know I can catch up on sleep when I have to. (Previous night I was once again interrupted by loud noise in the morning, this time a vacuum cleaner by a cleaning person, so I was sleep deprived). So while getting to sleep isn't always easy, I generally can stay asleep unless rudely awakened.
Mood is quite good and tongkat ali and maca continue to do a super job at sexuality enhancement. I often have to stop what I'm doing and go "relieve the pressure" due to sexual thoughts and sensations - when was the last time I had to do that on celexa! So I am quite pleased overall.
Trying to lose weight will be...interesting.
Posted by Chris O on July 31, 2011, at 22:33:14
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
Joe:
It's interesting to hear your experiences with this medication. As regarding the whole sexual issue thing, I've found, after 8 days on Viibryd (after being off Serzone for 4 months), that the anhedonia in relationship to sex has returned for me. In other words, it was starting to disappear but is now coming back. I guess I'll have to wait until I do a couple of weeks at 40mg to give a more experienced assessment.
Chris
Posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:50:33
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » joe schmoe, posted by Chris O on July 31, 2011, at 22:33:14
Chris,
I'm not sure what you mean. You had sexual problems on Serzone? Or after going off it?
I tried Serzone myself back before it got pulled off the market here, and I seem to recall it actually being a sex enhancer.
Posted by Chris O on August 1, 2011, at 0:53:45
In reply to Re: Day 31 of Viibryd » Chris O, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:50:33
Joe:
Serzone a sex enhancer, eh? Wow. Maybe I'm just a freak, but I haven't found any of the SSRIs, or SNRIs, to be "sex enhancers." Since 2008, I've been on high doses of Prozac, Luvox, Paxil, and Serzone. All gave me that lack of interest in sex kind of feeling. I didn't get much, if any benefit, from those drugs, either, even at the highest recommended doses. Lexapro was no better in 2004-2005. I had luck with a Celexa-Wellbutrin combination in 2000-2001, but since then, I've been in the haze of my increasingly debilitating anxiety disorder. My hopes are low for Viibryd, but I'll stick with it for one or two months, just to give it a chance. It's good to know that you're benefiting from the drug, though. Gives me something to hope for.
Chris
Posted by bearfan on August 1, 2011, at 17:45:17
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by joe schmoe on July 31, 2011, at 22:23:37
I'm also on Day 30 of Viibryd. I'm sort of torn on this medication. I sleep better, which is good, but I still have some dizziness feelings and loose stools. I don't feel as productive, or social as on other medications I've tried. I don't seem to be as hungry like on Paxil, so my weight has stayed about the same. I'd thought I would of lost a little because of eating less, but not so. Libido hasn't been greatly improved, but functioning has. Unless it gets significantly better in the next few weeks, I haven't yet decided to remain on it.
Posted by markwell on August 1, 2011, at 18:02:13
In reply to Day 31 of Viibryd, posted by bearfan on August 1, 2011, at 17:45:17
Bearfan, has viibryd helped at all with anxiety and depression?
Mark
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