![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 23 to 47 of 53. Go back in thread:
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:04:03
I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?
Posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:10:32
> I know it has to go very slowly for it to really happen. That has to be part of the decision. I wish meds were the answer. I'm not really interested in letting go of my Pdoc, but I think I do need to let go of most, if not all, of my meds.
> Slowly, very slowly. Thanks fb. How are you?Well then, I am behind you :-) Retaining
your pdoc, if s/he will support your taper could be very valuable. If you have that kind of relationship. Just thinking
someone who has observed you and help you sort through any withdrawal
symptoms....if any :-)Just an additional 2¢.
(Me? I'm sorting through my own cold turkey rebound issues. Rough. Still here.)
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:48:57
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sleepygirl2, posted by floatingbridge on July 7, 2011, at 18:23:29
I don't know what my Pdoc will think. I do know that pdocs tend to be reluctant about taking people off meds. I can understand that. I also know that I spent 25 or so years not on meds and I can do it again. The sadness and anxiety will probably always be there.
I've put a lot of work in though, and I'm better for it. I think I can manage it. It'll be a process, but I think it's important.
I am definitely not going the cold turkey route. I went cold turkey for a couple of days off effexor. It was awful.
Thanks fb. :-)
I hope you feel better every day.
Posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 20:42:40
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » floatingbridge, posted by sleepygirl2 on July 7, 2011, at 18:48:57
Not yet, but I did mean it
Posted by emmanuel98 on July 7, 2011, at 20:51:26
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
Well, having been an actual drug addict (addicted to opiates and alcohol), to me there is a huge difference between trying to find a psych med (which are not addictive in the sense of causing a high which the addict chases despite negative life consequences) that relieves depression or other psychiatric symptioms and drug addiction. I take parnate. Doesn't make me high. I don't crave it. I don't take higher and higher dosages to maintain an even keel. It has some side effects and apparently, if I try to go off it, I will have some withdrawal effects. This doesn't make me addicted to parnate, just dependent on it.
Posted by Bob on July 7, 2011, at 22:41:32
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by sigismund on July 7, 2011, at 15:18:45
> >Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
>
> >Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
>
> >These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
>
> Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
Oh yeah. I know exactly how this feels. It took me months to get off of Effexor back in the nineties and that was before my body was totally and completely wasted. I don't think I could even touch Effexor now. I have had some sort of discontinuation problem with almost every single psychoactive drug I've ever taken and I have never met anyone with difficulties as extreme as this.Bob
Posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2011, at 1:53:23
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by huxley on July 7, 2011, at 18:06:21
No worries huxley, I'm sure your a good person that only wants what we all want, to feel good and get back to living. I think it takes some guts and strength to say what you said, I have a ton of respect for it.
I really do hope you continue to improve and sooner than later feel more like you used to, and hopefully better at some point!
Be well and hang in there brotha.
Morgan
Posted by bleauberry on July 8, 2011, at 4:26:16
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
I can certainly relate to your story and have seen it happen multiple times.
"Drug addict" might not be the perfect description, because addiction requires a "craving", but I get your point for sure. I would say, maybe in general we become experts and expert guinea pigs on psych meds, we earn self taught masters degrees in psychiatry, but we don't even take class 101 on the other issues that cause depression, most of which cause the very same depression/anxiety we have all felt, but are not dealt with in the psychiatric circles.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:15:44
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » sigismund, posted by Bob on July 7, 2011, at 22:41:32
> > >Zyprexa has been a nightmare and has take over a year to go from 1.25mg to .30mg.
> >
> > >Daily Panic attacks, Emotitonal overdrive, anxiety, derpersonalisation, Despair, anger.
> >
> > >These are some of the things that I experienced weeks after each drop.
> >
> > Very interesting. I had not realised that it was so hard to get off.
>
>
> Oh yeah. I know exactly how this feels. It took me months to get off of Effexor back in the nineties and that was before my body was totally and completely wasted. I don't think I could even touch Effexor now. I have had some sort of discontinuation problem with almost every single psychoactive drug I've ever taken and I have never met anyone with difficulties as extreme as this.
>
> Bob
I feel somewhat guilty for having grown to tolerate the discontinuation of these drugs with relative ease. However, I developed a method of minimizing withdrawal symptoms through practice. I do remember the first time I tried to withdraw from Klonopin after a year of continuous exposure. The brain zaps were like lightening going off in my head. I swear I could even see the bolts.
- Scott
Posted by rculater on July 8, 2011, at 12:34:28
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Huxley, posted by bleauberry on July 8, 2011, at 4:26:16
I agree.
I've always needed something.
From a child until my mid teens it was a comfort pillow.
Then in my mid teens it was nicotine and cigarettes.
In my late teens until my mid twenties it was recreational drugs.
Following this came alcohol.
When I gave up all the above I needed Psch meds
Now after 10+ years of the psych med merry go around, i,ve given up on them and started smoking cigarettes again..
Posted by mellow on July 8, 2011, at 14:34:05
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
You are right to be angry. I agree with every single item you listed as far as big pharma dressing this thing up to get as many people medicated as possible, but I choose to look at myself as an individual not as part of the masses or part of some conspiracy. I have to believe that my therapist and pdoc are in the industry to help me. They are both wonderful people despite the fact that they make money at the expense of people's suffering. They are at least trying to help.
In the 1960's my grandfather would destroy the family home. He would break furniture and terrify his wife and children. He would lock himself up drinking whiskey until the doctor would come drag him to the state hospital where he would be shocked repeatedly...back when they had no clue what they were doing with ECT. They wrote him off as a schizophrenic which he clearly was not.
Now some might say we are the stage with meds where they don't know what they hell they are doing and we being experimented on. If you read all the books like "Anatomy of an Epidemic" it is almost impossible not to make make that assumption and become very angry. But I have to believe that coming from the blood line that I do that I have had and will lead a better life than my grandfathers, my father and my uncle because of how far psychiatry has come.
The atypical anitpsychotics alone are an incredible advancement if you read some pyschopharmacology textbooks and realize how close they are getting to symptom reduction in the exact areas of the brain they are aiming for. I am a recovered alcoholic and drug addict myself and I can tell you that recreation drugs were my psych meds before I was taking psych meds. There was obviously some "medicating" going on before I even stepped into the mental health game.
If anything I think working with a good hearted doc in addition to having a strong spiritual life is a much better alternative to addiction rather than an addiction in of itself. Our lives on psych meds may not be ideal, but would they have been ideal anyhow? We obviously had problems in the first place or we wouldn't have sought help.
I wish you all the luck in the world Huxley. In fact I am jealous you have gotten so far in your taper. For the sake of my sanity I don't even have a time table for being med free anymore. If that miracle is going to happen it will happen in good time. Please let us know how you do.
mellow
Posted by joe schmoe on July 8, 2011, at 15:20:49
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » Bob, posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:15:44
> I feel somewhat guilty for having grown to tolerate the discontinuation of these drugs with relative ease. However, I developed a method of minimizing withdrawal symptoms through practice. I do remember the first time I tried to withdraw from Klonopin after a year of continuous exposure. The brain zaps were like lightening going off in my head. I swear I could even see the bolts.
>
>
> - Scott
I am curious what this method is. I take klonopin and if I ever need to go off it, I may need to know!
Posted by linkadge on July 8, 2011, at 15:31:37
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » SLS, posted by joe schmoe on July 8, 2011, at 15:20:49
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 16:55:27
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts » SLS, posted by joe schmoe on July 8, 2011, at 15:20:49
> > I feel somewhat guilty for having grown to tolerate the discontinuation of these drugs with relative ease. However, I developed a method of minimizing withdrawal symptoms through practice. I do remember the first time I tried to withdraw from Klonopin after a year of continuous exposure. The brain zaps were like lightening going off in my head. I swear I could even see the bolts.
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
>
> I am curious what this method is. I take klonopin and if I ever need to go off it, I may need to know!
Hi Joe.I wrote a whole bunch of stuff that appeared on a Psycho-Babble Withdrawal Board that no longer exists.
You can use the Psycho-Babble Search feature located at the bottom of the main page.
I found this one:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/wdrawl/20050214/msgs/457546.html
There were quite a few great suggestions made by others, but I don't have the energy to search them out right now.
- Scott
Posted by johnj1 on July 8, 2011, at 22:23:16
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
At my peak I was on remeron, a benzo, and lithium. I have been drug free for over 3 years and each year I am better.
They tried to put me on all sorts of meds. It was hell coming off and a doctor suggested I didn't appear to benefit.
What helped me the most? A good diet and putting dairy back in my diet. Yougurt and mild stopped my physical anxiety but it was a slow process and my sleep improved greatly.
I now have a lot of stress but handle it well. If I feel anxious I just say so what and tell the anixety to give me all you got as I know it will not kill me. It never lasts. I feel like I did before I had my first anixety attack. I am so glad I am off meds. Life is good.
Posted by morgan miller on July 8, 2011, at 22:48:05
In reply to Re: yeah, so whats your point? (nm), posted by linkadge on July 8, 2011, at 15:31:37
You funny Linkage, I hear ya. I hope you are doing o.k. and able to somewhat enjoy the summer.
Morgan
Posted by desolationrower on July 8, 2011, at 23:17:11
In reply to Re: yeah, so whats your point? (nm), posted by linkadge on July 8, 2011, at 15:31:37
drug addicts are much better than other forms of 'seeker's, the workaholics and religous fundamentalists and other suchlikes.
everythign in moderation, including decadent hedonism
there is probably something to be said for people who don't leave adolescence. But the fire of youth for straightedge prickishness is wasted. one of the few good things about maturaty is acceptance of one's own weakness and needs and instantiation.
-d/r
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 9, 2011, at 7:24:54
In reply to fire and brimstone for the puritans, life for me, posted by desolationrower on July 8, 2011, at 23:17:11
> drug addicts are much better than other forms of 'seeker's, the workaholics and religous fundamentalists and other suchlikes.
>
> everythign in moderation, including decadent hedonism
>
> there is probably something to be said for people who don't leave adolescence. But the fire of youth for straightedge prickishness is wasted. one of the few good things about maturaty is acceptance of one's own weakness and needs and instantiation.
>
> -d/rd/r,
You wrote,[...drug addicts are much better than...].
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following, then I could have the opportunity to respond accordingly.
A. What criteria do you use to mark the difference between a religious fundamentalist and other people that are not?
B. If the drug addicts are {much better}, what are the areas in their lives that are better, if that is what you are wanting to mean? What is meant by {better}?
C. If a religious fundmantalist lives their life drug free, and the drug addict does not, could the religious fundamentalist's lives be compared to the drug addicts lives by a standard unbeknownst to you that could conclude otherwise from your statement here in question? If not, why not?
D.redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by floatingbridge on July 9, 2011, at 11:38:29
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by johnj1 on July 8, 2011, at 22:23:16
Well, it's official here: I'm not an Addict.
After months of unrelenting pressure, I was off all my meds.
Yesterday, I finally caved in despair and desperation to 'just check' a 'dual diagnosis/recovery' facility.
Within five minutes, they were like, umm,
you don't belong here.They spoke at length with me. They gave me f*ck*ng crisis counseling and referrals because I am such a wreck.
I have dragged myself and been dragged
through this because someone said I was addicted. So I am absolutely taking care with this word.I am sooo taking a middle road approach to medication. I am also letting people use that addict word for themselves. But I'm done. Hands off me.
The facility place said, yeah, people get very reactive when they hear the word addict. They were horrified by what some caring people had pushed on through. They offered to call and counsel any and everyone in my flipping AA family.
It's o.k. to decide for one's self regarding
psychiatric medicine. But for someone else, everyone, please be kind.....
Posted by floatingbridge on July 9, 2011, at 15:51:38
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by floatingbridge on July 9, 2011, at 11:38:29
Hey. I've been under pressure lately. I didn't mean to shout. Sorry :-/
My AA extended family is back on their game, so that's good. They are understanding now that the weather looks like trauma w/a chance of bipolarity. They are saying, honey, shoot, of course, here's my psychiatrist's phone number.
So no swipes intended at anyone here or AA.
Just airing things out :-/
I think there have been some very articulate posts on this thread. Thanks Huxley for starting it.
Posted by Defective on July 14, 2011, at 13:08:04
In reply to I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Huxley on July 6, 2011, at 22:13:03
What you are doing in your headline is called generalizing. In your narcissistic world, your experience may be the experience of everyone else, but in reality it's not. Making statements like you have is irresponsible and has resulted in hundreds thousands of unnecessary suicides. Psychiatry is a well-founded science that has saved an infinite amount of lives. It's not a perfect science, but neither is any other science. What we know now may evolve as it has for centuries. That's no reason to poke holes in it or say "see this guy got addicted to sleeping pills. Psychiatry is bad." Surgeries are botched all the time because biological understanding is also imperfect. That doesn't mean a person with a huge cancerous mass should avoid surgery. What have you done with your life besides spread misleading propoganda? Are you the arbiter of scientific validity? Are you a scientist? Have you even stepped foot in a University that exists offline? I'm not being antagonistic, but you need to realize that spreading propaganda like this will actually result in people killing themselves or others. Go to any major university in your area and do your research on psychiatry before claiming to know everything about it from a negative personal experience. As an alumnus of my university, I have access to any psychiatric literature within our electronic scholarly database that you might want to see and I would be happy to send it to you and even pay for shipping as long as you read them with an open mind. I'm very sorry you had a bad experience, but choose a more accurate headline next time. Have a good day and please don't consider this anything other than offer to enlighten you.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 14, 2011, at 21:41:42
In reply to Re: I consider people on Psych Meds to be drug addicts, posted by Defective on July 14, 2011, at 13:08:04
> What you are doing in your headline is called generalizing. In your narcissistic world, your experience may be the experience of everyone else, but in reality it's not. Making statements like you have is irresponsible and has resulted in hundreds thousands of unnecessary suicides. Psychiatry is a well-founded science that has saved an infinite amount of lives. It's not a perfect science, but neither is any other science. What we know now may evolve as it has for centuries. That's no reason to poke holes in it or say "see this guy got addicted to sleeping pills. Psychiatry is bad." Surgeries are botched all the time because biological understanding is also imperfect. That doesn't mean a person with a huge cancerous mass should avoid surgery. What have you done with your life besides spread misleading propoganda? Are you the arbiter of scientific validity? Are you a scientist? Have you even stepped foot in a University that exists offline? I'm not being antagonistic, but you need to realize that spreading propaganda like this will actually result in people killing themselves or others. Go to any major university in your area and do your research on psychiatry before claiming to know everything about it from a negative personal experience. As an alumnus of my university, I have access to any psychiatric literature within our electronic scholarly database that you might want to see and I would be happy to send it to you and even pay for shipping as long as you read them with an open mind. I'm very sorry you had a bad experience, but choose a more accurate headline next time. Have a good day and please don't consider this anything other than offer to enlighten you.
Df,
I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following True-False questions, then Icould have the opportunit to respond accordingly.
True or False:
A. The definition of a {drug addict} could vary.
B. Huxly's conception of a drug addict is one that could be included in this variable definition, if you consider the definition to vary.
C. A person could consider a person that goes into withdrawal when a psychotropic drug is stopped, to suffer some of the same things that a drug addict experinces when they stop , let's say, a narcotic.
D. Some psychotropic drugs have opium or a synthetic opium substance in them.
E. The withdrawal from Klonopin or Xanax, both benzodiazepines, is described by those that used both opiates and BZDs, to be worse than the withdrawal from opium based deugs.
F. People have killed themselves while in withdrawal from psychotropic drugs.
G. People have killed others while in withdrawal from psychotropic drugs.
H. The FDA has a warning that people taking some psychotropic drugs could have increased suicide thinking and increased homocide thinking.
K. Over 40,000 people last year died from taking psychotropic drugs last year.
L. After psychiatrists gave Earnest Hemingway ECT, he killed himself.
M. Sigmund Freud killed himself
N. Psychiatrists have never been involved in genocide
O. Psychiatrists are forbidden to take money from the psychiatric drug manufacturers
P. There are no life-ruining condition as a result of taking psychotropic drugs.
Q. redacted by respondent
Lou
Posted by Defective on July 14, 2011, at 23:32:32
In reply to Lou's request-owereeliegh » Defective, posted by Lou Pilder on July 14, 2011, at 21:41:42
Ok Mr. Scientologist, I'm going to respond to a few of the more idiotic statements contained below
Have People killed others while on withdrawal from psychotropic drugs?
The number of people who have killed others in human history is exponentially greater than the number of individuals that have killed people while withdrawing from psychotropic drugs. Further, if someone kills while withdrawing, isn't it as likely that the individual killed because they were a psychopath or they got into a heated argument with someone that would have evoked the same violent response before withdrawal?
Have Psychiatrists been involved in Genocide?
I'm not sure what you are talking about or what genocide. I'm sure in Africa a psychiatrist was forced to fight with anti-government forces to save his own life and his family. This is the most retarded question I've ever seen posted on the internet and I'm not sure how this should deter Americans from receiving treatment for mental illnesses?
The withdrawal from Klonopin or Xanax, both benzodiazepines, is described by those that used both opiates and BZDs, to be worse than the withdrawal from opium based?
There is no way to quantify this and If two people say it, that doesn't make it so. Klonopin and Xanax are terrible, in my opinion, for the long-term treatment of anxiety and insomnia, but administered appropriately can enrich lives.
Doest he FDA has a warning that people taking some psychotropic drugs could have increased suicide thinking and increased homocide thinking?
The warning says absolutely nothing about increased homicidal thinking. It warns of suicidal thinking while taking the drug, but depressed people take this drug because they are depressed and suicidal and it's impossible for the FDA to say whether a suicidal thought is because of the mental illness that isn't being treated effectively by the drug or the drug itself.
The irony in all of this is that your distrust and paranoia is likely indicative of untreated Scihzoprenia and you are criticizing the only science that can give you a chance at a normal life. I'm sure you weren't medicated with all of those drugs because you didn't have a severe mental illness. I hope you get the help that you need before you are homeless and standing on a cardboard box shouting out the gospel.
Posted by Lou Pilder on July 15, 2011, at 15:57:15
In reply to Lou's request-owereeliegh » Defective, posted by Lou Pilder on July 14, 2011, at 21:41:42
> > What you are doing in your headline is called generalizing. In your narcissistic world, your experience may be the experience of everyone else, but in reality it's not. Making statements like you have is irresponsible and has resulted in hundreds thousands of unnecessary suicides. Psychiatry is a well-founded science that has saved an infinite amount of lives. It's not a perfect science, but neither is any other science. What we know now may evolve as it has for centuries. That's no reason to poke holes in it or say "see this guy got addicted to sleeping pills. Psychiatry is bad." Surgeries are botched all the time because biological understanding is also imperfect. That doesn't mean a person with a huge cancerous mass should avoid surgery. What have you done with your life besides spread misleading propoganda? Are you the arbiter of scientific validity? Are you a scientist? Have you even stepped foot in a University that exists offline? I'm not being antagonistic, but you need to realize that spreading propaganda like this will actually result in people killing themselves or others. Go to any major university in your area and do your research on psychiatry before claiming to know everything about it from a negative personal experience. As an alumnus of my university, I have access to any psychiatric literature within our electronic scholarly database that you might want to see and I would be happy to send it to you and even pay for shipping as long as you read them with an open mind. I'm very sorry you had a bad experience, but choose a more accurate headline next time. Have a good day and please don't consider this anything other than offer to enlighten you.
>
> Df,
> I am unsure as to what you are wanting to mean here. If you could post answers to the following True-False questions, then Icould have the opportunit to respond accordingly.
> True or False:
> A. The definition of a {drug addict} could vary.
> B. Huxly's conception of a drug addict is one that could be included in this variable definition, if you consider the definition to vary.
> C. A person could consider a person that goes into withdrawal when a psychotropic drug is stopped, to suffer some of the same things that a drug addict experinces when they stop , let's say, a narcotic.
> D. Some psychotropic drugs have opium or a synthetic opium substance in them.
> E. The withdrawal from Klonopin or Xanax, both benzodiazepines, is described by those that used both opiates and BZDs, to be worse than the withdrawal from opium based deugs.
> F. People have killed themselves while in withdrawal from psychotropic drugs.
> G. People have killed others while in withdrawal from psychotropic drugs.
> H. The FDA has a warning that people taking some psychotropic drugs could have increased suicide thinking and increased homocide thinking.
> K. Over 40,000 people last year died from taking psychotropic drugs last year.
> L. After psychiatrists gave Earnest Hemingway ECT, he killed himself.
> M. Sigmund Freud killed himself
> N. Psychiatrists have never been involved in genocide
> O. Psychiatrists are forbidden to take money from the psychiatric drug manufacturers
> P. There are no life-ruining condition as a result of taking psychotropic drugs.
> Q. redacted by respondent
> LouFriends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread, I am requesting that you view the following video.
Lou
To view this video,
A. Pull up Google
B. Type in;
[youtube, Psychiatry Eugen-How did the happen?]
You will see a pic of a man and the time is 10 min posted on Oct 13 2008
Posted by Phillipa on July 15, 2011, at 20:51:04
In reply to Lou's request-vutukntnoehr, posted by Lou Pilder on July 15, 2011, at 15:57:15
Dont feel like viewing a video thanks for the offer will continue to discuss if continues Phillipa
Go forward in thread:
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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