![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 9 to 33 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2011, at 18:43:23
In reply to Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 8:11:44
Hey, that article makes total sense to me. It describes me just about exact. In my case it is a very common symtom among lyme or lyme-like situations. Total guess here, but it wouldn't surprise me if in another few years they figure out it's because of sheath damage covering nerve endings.
I haven't really found anything to help with that particular symptom. I guess maybe we just get used to it because our other symptoms are worse?
Posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 19:11:02
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by bleauberry on July 6, 2011, at 18:43:23
> Hey, that article makes total sense to me. It describes me just about exact. In my case it is a very common symtom among lyme or lyme-like situations. Total guess here, but it wouldn't surprise me if in another few years they figure out it's because of sheath damage covering nerve endings.
>
> I haven't really found anything to help with that particular symptom. I guess maybe we just get used to it because our other symptoms are worse?You might be right. For me, the evidence lied in the many bumps and bruises I incurred from walking into things. Clumsy me.
Impaired balance is a symptom of a great many ailments, including Lyme Disease. I noticed my impaired ability to walk straight in 1982. Interestingly, I also found that high dosages of Lamictal produce a similar impairment. That so many different conditions can produce the same balance impairments does not negate the fact that bipolar disorder is among them. The brain controls balance. Bipolar disorder is an anomaly in brain function.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2011, at 20:11:17
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 19:11:02
I wonder if somehow it's connected to inner ear and the cystals that relieve dizzyness being in balance. I wonder if antivert would help with bipolar? Know it really relaxed me as a teen. Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on July 6, 2011, at 20:42:09
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by Phillipa on July 6, 2011, at 20:11:17
Bipolar meds make it hard to walk in a straight line especially valproate.
Linkadge
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 21:53:28
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 13:38:38
> > >For me, this symptom goes away when the depression goes away. It really isn't subtle when one is walking down a straight narrow hall or trying to walk without drifting side-to-side down a sidewalk.
>
> > So it could very well be one of your mind's way of reacting to depression.
>
> You are wrong.
>
> Instead of trying to explain everyone's experience with mental illness according to your particular school of thought, why not just listen?
>
> What makes you think that you are bipolar?
>
>
> - ScottScott, what's going on with you man? There could be a physiological reaciton to the biological depression that you are experiencing. Maybe I should have been more specific.
I am bipolar. Why are you questioning this? I've made it clear several times here. I don't need to go into the details with you.
Btw, life does affect our disorders, be them mostly biologically based or not. No one can deny this very fact.
Moragn
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 21:55:44
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by linkadge on July 6, 2011, at 20:42:09
> Bipolar meds make it hard to walk in a straight line especially valproate.
>
> LinkadgeExactly..We won't know if there is a real trend here unless there are studies done on young people that have been diagnosed but not treated.
Posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 22:00:31
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 19:11:02
Scott, you're the one who said you experience some of these symptoms when you are depressed. I wasn't saying, "It's all in your head man", I was just saying it could be a symptom of the depression, chicken before the egg.
Posted by 10derheart on July 7, 2011, at 0:37:27
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » Phillipa, posted by SLS on July 6, 2011, at 12:22:52
Fascinating.
I am not bipolar but I see it mentions in passing that something like this has long been known about people with ADD/ADHD. I don't recall hearing that, or if I did I've forgotten.
ADD/Inattentive is me and *this* is me. Years ago, I had to concentrate till smoke came from my ears trying to pass a sobriety test when stone cold sober and everyone, all my life, has hated walking abreast of me on a sidewalk (e.g., "what are you doing? quit pushing me off the sidewalk!") I couldn't help it - it just happens. Walking relaxed and straight as others do seems both impossible and almost...unnatural. It is no drunken stagger, but if you pay attention it is quite obvious to me and others.
These connections might lead to breakthroughs for MI sufferers. I have to hope so.
Posted by 10derheart on July 7, 2011, at 0:47:03
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 12:52:40
I've done it all my life, at least since I was a young teenager. And I was never depressed until my early 40s. But Scott is talking about BP and I am talking about ADD...very different animals. It stands to reason since I most certainly had ADD as a teen.
I find it all fascinating.
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 0:53:18
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by 10derheart on July 7, 2011, at 0:47:03
> I've done it all my life, at least since I was a young teenager. And I was never depressed until my early 40s. But Scott is talking about BP and I am talking about ADD...very different animals. It stands to reason since I most certainly had ADD as a teen.
>
> I find it all fascinating.My brother has ADD/ADHD and likely an undiagnose learning disability, he exhibits all of these symptoms. Still, there are so many peole diagnosed with ADD and bipolar that are athletes with very good balance and coordination, I'm just not ready to buy into the idea that this issue is that much more common in certain pathologies than it is in the rest of the population. We are talking about one study, and a flawed one at that.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 2:26:44
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 22:00:31
> Scott, you're the one who said you experience some of these symptoms when you are depressed. I wasn't saying, "It's all in your head man", I was just saying it could be a symptom of the depression, chicken before the egg.
The egg most definitely came before the chicken. Biology 101.
- Scott
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 2:49:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 2:26:44
Scott, I have to admit, I'm a little put off by what appears to me to be a bit of an attitude here, sorry if I am mistaken. I don't think anything I said warrants you responding the way you did with me. If you are not happy with life, don't take it out on me brotha. I'm in no mood to take any sh*t from you-doubting whether I'm bipolar and unreasonably responding to a perfectly reasonable post of mine. I really don't care if I get a silly little time out for my fairly benign statements here. And I don't give a f*ck if you felt accused in anyway.
Honestly, I think there are many people here that do not have the support they need and are not doing everything in their power to get better, not reach full remission(which I believe is unrealistic anyway, and striving for this may be part of the problem), just get better enough to enjoy life half the time. And I believe you fall into this category Scott. It really is quite frustrating. It's funny, I'm not even that fired up, I'm just speaking my mind, it's free world out there, unfortunately, not a free internet. Peace out.
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 2:58:03
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 2:26:44
> > Scott, you're the one who said you experience some of these symptoms when you are depressed. I wasn't saying, "It's all in your head man", I was just saying it could be a symptom of the depression, chicken before the egg.
>
> The egg most definitely came before the chicken. Biology 101.
>
>
> - ScottI think it's one of those arguments that people have continued to debate over. I'm not so sure the idea of the egg coming before the chicken is either simple or confirmed. If you are speaking about the existence of life, the origins were definitely microscopic cells, than more evolved animals
You admitted it once before and now I see it, you can really be a bit of an *ss Scott. You're not the only one obviously, I can too.
Morgan
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 3:10:01
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 2:26:44
Hold on, were you questioning me being bipolar as a way to make a point, getting me back for what you thought was me questioning the validity of your motor integration, balance, and posture issues having anything to do with your bipolar biology?
I'm just having a hard time figuring out why you would even ask me the question in the first place. I think you're being very immature here Scott.
I can't realy blame you though, after suffering as many years as you have the way you have, I would be immature, angry, and unreasonable at times also.
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 3:48:46
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by morgan miller on July 6, 2011, at 21:53:28
> > > >For me, this symptom goes away when the depression goes away. It really isn't subtle when one is walking down a straight narrow hall or trying to walk without drifting side-to-side down a sidewalk.
> >
> > > So it could very well be one of your mind's way of reacting to depression.
> >
> > You are wrong.
> >
> > Instead of trying to explain everyone's experience with mental illness according to your particular school of thought, why not just listen?
> >
> > What makes you think that you are bipolar?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Scott, what's going on with you man?
I am reacting to your replies to me. Imagine my telling you that your bipolar symptoms are really a conversion reaction to being psychogenically impotent, such that you are having dissonent feelings of guilt for molesting a toy poodle when you were peri-pubertal. Psychogenic impotence exists, therefore you must have it. The poodle has never been the same.> There could be a physiological reaciton to the biological depression that you are experiencing.
What is a "reaction"? How does that differ from an integral symptom?
It is not a *reaction* to having a bipolar diathesis that produces sway and other physical incoordinations. It is most likely the diathesis itself. That's why it can be detected by measurement devices in the absence of overt mood dysregulation. Maybe you are not at all overtly clumsy or otherwise incoordinated. Maybe you really don't have bipolar disorder. Psychodynamic therapy might cure your pseudo-bipolar conversion reaction.
You launched an assault against my reality with insufficient information. I doubt it was your intention to insult me, but I felt very much insulted. You make me feel feeble-minded. You don't think I can bump into walls and other objects without it being some sort of reaction? Reaction to what?
Impairments of physical coordination occurs with me. Obviously, they do not occur with you as you self-report. Maybe you are unaccustomed to self-reporting and have yet to learn the skill. Or perhaps this is a good starting place to investigate a poorly quantified phenomenon.
For what it's worth, prior to de novo treatment, I observed myself sway when walking and bumping into objects during my depressed phase of an ultra-rapid cycle. I was able to compare my ability to coordinate movements when depressed against my normothymic phase. (I was first diagnosed as unipolar because I had never displayed classic manic symptoms until then). Of course, one could easily explain my irritable or agitated temperament when I was younger as being a presentation of a mixed state. This is one explanation currently being studied.
Just as you don't feel like justifying your diagnosis of bipolar disorder to me, I don't feel like justifying my various bipolar physical incoordinations to you. I find it fruitful to have an open mind and simply listen to people when they describe themselves.
By the way, drugs can produce impairments in physical coordination as side effects. I know you knew that. However, what is often lost here is that if a drug can do it, why can't a sick brain do it on its own?
I don't know, Morgan. I just don't know. I am not sure of much except for the nature of the beast as I experience it.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 3:58:41
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 2:58:03
It was an egg of the pro-chicken that contained the first genetic mutation(s) to produce the chicken phenotype. This would be consistent with what we know about sexual reproduction and evolution.
In any event, it is nice to see that science validates my experience with bipolar disorder.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:12:03
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 3:10:01
> Hold on, were you questioning me being bipolar as a way to make a point,
No. It was an interrogative meant for me to have a better understanding of your illness. I must have missed the posts of yours that described your experience with bipolar disorder. I didn't know you have it - or at least that you have been diagnosed as such.
> I'm just having a hard time figuring out why you would even ask me the question in the first place. I think you're being very immature here Scott.
No comment need be placed here by me.
> I can't realy blame you though, after suffering as many years as you have the way you have, I would be immature, angry, and unreasonable at times also.
I truly appreciate your consideration of my uncontrollable fits of rage and juvenile reactions to your disaffirmations of my life's experiences.
- Scott
Posted by 10derheart on July 7, 2011, at 11:06:03
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 0:53:18
I don't have an opinion on the study, per se. I am too ignorant about the way studies are supposed to be done and applied to even go there. I have no doubt you are makiong a valid point.
But I think we may be talking about two related, yet totally different things....or maybe it's on a continuum like so many things involving the brain. Earlier in life, before gaining a large amount of weight, I was a fair athlete. I played 4 years of varsity basketball and 1 year of softball in high school. Later I played casual volleyball and basketball all my adult life. I have above-average balance and coordination when it comes to sports. I've never "thrown like a girl" as they say, or been clumsy in sports, and neither has my daughter or 4-year-old granddaughter who both exhibit a natural affinity for doing things like catching, throwing, running, jumping, climbing, etc.
For me, the swaying and inability to walk straight occurs in very specific situations when I am asked to stay on a narrow path or do something a particular way in a short amount of time with my eyes closed. I also notice some weird spatial problems, but they never happen during any sports-related activity (maybe focus, relaxation overcomes the "natural" deficit? who knows) but only at other times. It's hard to explain but it is like not knowing where you are in space and my ears have been checked from time to time with no issues.
I think it's complicated.
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:03:40
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by SLS on July 7, 2011, at 4:12:03
Scott, it's always been obvious to me you are far more intelligent in many ways than I am, or at least your mind has far more functional capacity tham mine. I think my impairment or lack of high function is affecting my ability to properly articulate what I believe about how these symptoms of coordination and balance are manifesting. I do think it could be purely biological, I said nothing that implied some kind of psychogenic or conversion reaction, at least I did not think so. I feel you are biased toward making assumptions about my statements here based on beliefs I've expressed in the past. You are saying that these symptoms are part of the disorder, I believe this might be true, just not true for most. Just like with any disorder that has a spectrum, different people that fall within it will experience different manifestations. All of our disorders are different, despite falling into the same category of diagnosis. Just as with medications, our brains respond differently to our disorders.
I know several people that are bipolar, all of them farily coordinated, some of them athletes, and most of them have pretty damn good posture. Maybe there is something to this one study, I just believe that there needs to be more studies done and done more reliably.
I am surprised that I upset you with my beliefs. I was just stating a belief that I did not think was that extreme or out there in a way to evoke such a reaction from you. I understand you would like to find answers. Unfortunately, those answers may never be withing our reach, and all we can do is get better. It is possible to get better without answers, I know you already know this.
As far as me being bipolar is concerned, I have hospitalized myself(had to have someone drive me there) for two major mixed episodes. They were both horrific experiences that I am sure did quite a bit of damage, damage I am still recovering from. I also believe I am still recovering from what I believe to be somewhat irresponsible use of medications.
Most of my life something has been off. I was lucky to be surrounded by some crazy *ss and very fun friends, which allowed me to sort of be myself and blend in. Still, I was different from the rest, and I'm not so sure them being crazy and liking my wild crazy behavior was always such a good thing.
I realize my first mixed episode was at 22, when I finally gave in to Prozac. It was an amazing, and almost magical experience. The only problem was that I was more prone to hypomanic behavior(without the need for less sleep), which was not much different than before. I was more likely to take risks, have risky sex, act impulsively, and be defiant in the face of authority. But ya know what, Prozac helped me feel better, in more control, and more confident than I had ever felt before. I slept great and felt great. But after 9 months I was ready to get off as I started to feel a bit too numbed. Then the roller coaster of my 20s and 30s began, being on and off SSRIs until I was finally diagnosed a few years ago at Dominion Hospital in Falls Church, VA.
Actually there was a fairly consistently stable and feel good period from 27 to 35. Until the end of that period, I was on Zoloft. My ability to escape reality, some help from fish oil, regular exercise(much of it intense), simply being young without any major physical issues, and having fun with friends(part of the escape), and Zoloft, all likely protected me from breaking down the way I did at the end of 34 and the beginning of 35, when I was hospitalized.
During these years, I had a few friends just flat out tell me I was the most f*ck*d up person they knew. It didn't really always sink in, I just thought I was wild and that was the true me, that was simply my nature. Two girlfriends(just friends) told me later that they suspected all along that I was bipolar, but never told me what they believed, which was a bit frustrating. My ex-coworker, a bartender at a restaurant I worked at one of 7 restaurants in 6 years, always called me a maniac, and she said it seriously, not jokingly, whether she was entertained by my behavior or not. Well, she was right, I was a maniac, living in an ongoing state of controlled bipolar mania.
As a kid, my reactions to stressful events like my parents fighting and then separating were different than the typical child. I remember a few times going to my mother in the morning telling her everything seemed like it was sped up, feeling and sounding faster than normal. She sounded like she was talking in a rushed panicky manner. I felt drugged, though I still maintained a fairly calm manner of speach, just with some amount of fear behind it.
So, there is no doubt that I was born with a genetic predisposition towards bipolar reactions to my environment and developing disabling conditions associated with bipolar disorder. It really sucks that I was not brought into a different world with parents that were better equipped to give me and my siblings what we needed. I don't dwell on this or hold bitterness(though I admit I am still in the process of properly channeling the inner anger, something that all of us likely have), it's just one thing that helps me understand and deal with my condition. I'm sure you can relate to wanting to better understand your condition and the reasons for it's development in order to hopefully better cope with it and come up with strategies to help manage it.
I still suspect that you questioned my own understanding of being bipolar because you were pissed off at me. I guess it's a bit moot at this point. I don't really care now either way to be honest, just like you, I was slightly offended by your expression of obvious doubt, especially since I thought I had stated it several times, and even in direct responses to you, explaining in detail what I had been through.
Morgan
Posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2011, at 20:44:21
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:03:40
Peace to you both!!! Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 21:34:58
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by Phillipa on July 7, 2011, at 20:44:21
Hey Scott, I realize I came on initially in a more attacking way easily dismissing the research than I probably should have. Sorry man.
I will try to be more careful with my approach to topics when expressing beliefs or opinions. I allow my passion and anger/frustration get the best of me at times.
Posted by SLS on July 8, 2011, at 5:10:42
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture., posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 21:34:58
> Hey Scott, I realize I came on initially in a more attacking way easily dismissing the research than I probably should have. Sorry man.
>
> I will try to be more careful with my approach to topics when expressing beliefs or opinions. I allow my passion and anger/frustration get the best of me at times.Me, too.
Thanks.
It really wasn't about the research, though.
Just so that you know where I was coming from:
ME: For me, this symptom goes away when the depression goes away. It really isn't subtle when one is walking down a straight narrow hall or trying to walk without drifting side-to-side down a sidewalk.
YOU: So it could very well be one of your mind's way of reacting to depression.
The words "mind" and "reaction" jumped out at me.
- Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on July 8, 2011, at 8:45:17
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:03:40
Hey Morgan,
This is a moving narrative. You are just a great guy. As I think now about your sense of things being sped up as a child, is it anything like hyperactivity? I had thought there is something about adhd and BP sharing a genetic arm (?) if that's even a term. It's more common than thought. (I am not big into medicalizing that in children btw. Educational therapy first and ongoing, and awareness of goal sets over a dx).
At the er last week, a woman came in who had accidentally cut her hand on a table saw. She had driven herself. As we talked, she told me she had 'severe mixed agitated bipolar' or something like that. She started to do something I thought very interesting. She began thinking that it was her bipolar that caused this (really awful but common) accident to happen. Her mind went to work on this. I asked her if she was manic right now, and she said no, in fact her therapist that day had remarked how well and stable she had been for sometime. I guess I was very touched by her, and recognized that, even for someone with an unquestionably physical affliction, oh, you know, she could use her dx against herself, and she benefited from therapy just maybe to get along with others and seeing herself as being more than bipolar. I'm rambling here. I suppose my only point is that her dx and the history of it so haunted her. I mean, I can relate to being the f*ck*d up one very well.
Peace, Morgan.
> Scott, it's always been obvious to me you are far more intelligent in many ways than I am, or at least your mind has far more functional capacity tham mine. I think my impairment or lack of high function is affecting my ability to properly articulate what I believe about how these symptoms of coordination and balance are manifesting. I do think it could be purely biological, I said nothing that implied some kind of psychogenic or conversion reaction, at least I did not think so. I feel you are biased toward making assumptions about my statements here based on beliefs I've expressed in the past. You are saying that these symptoms are part of the disorder, I believe this might be true, just not true for most. Just like with any disorder that has a spectrum, different people that fall within it will experience different manifestations. All of our disorders are different, despite falling into the same category of diagnosis. Just as with medications, our brains respond differently to our disorders.
>
> I know several people that are bipolar, all of them farily coordinated, some of them athletes, and most of them have pretty damn good posture. Maybe there is something to this one study, I just believe that there needs to be more studies done and done more reliably.
>
> I am surprised that I upset you with my beliefs. I was just stating a belief that I did not think was that extreme or out there in a way to evoke such a reaction from you. I understand you would like to find answers. Unfortunately, those answers may never be withing our reach, and all we can do is get better. It is possible to get better without answers, I know you already know this.
>
> As far as me being bipolar is concerned, I have hospitalized myself(had to have someone drive me there) for two major mixed episodes. They were both horrific experiences that I am sure did quite a bit of damage, damage I am still recovering from. I also believe I am still recovering from what I believe to be somewhat irresponsible use of medications.
>
> Most of my life something has been off. I was lucky to be surrounded by some crazy *ss and very fun friends, which allowed me to sort of be myself and blend in. Still, I was different from the rest, and I'm not so sure them being crazy and liking my wild crazy behavior was always such a good thing.
>
> I realize my first mixed episode was at 22, when I finally gave in to Prozac. It was an amazing, and almost magical experience. The only problem was that I was more prone to hypomanic behavior(without the need for less sleep), which was not much different than before. I was more likely to take risks, have risky sex, act impulsively, and be defiant in the face of authority. But ya know what, Prozac helped me feel better, in more control, and more confident than I had ever felt before. I slept great and felt great. But after 9 months I was ready to get off as I started to feel a bit too numbed. Then the roller coaster of my 20s and 30s began, being on and off SSRIs until I was finally diagnosed a few years ago at Dominion Hospital in Falls Church, VA.
>
> Actually there was a fairly consistently stable and feel good period from 27 to 35. Until the end of that period, I was on Zoloft. My ability to escape reality, some help from fish oil, regular exercise(much of it intense), simply being young without any major physical issues, and having fun with friends(part of the escape), and Zoloft, all likely protected me from breaking down the way I did at the end of 34 and the beginning of 35, when I was hospitalized.
>
> During these years, I had a few friends just flat out tell me I was the most f*ck*d up person they knew. It didn't really always sink in, I just thought I was wild and that was the true me, that was simply my nature. Two girlfriends(just friends) told me later that they suspected all along that I was bipolar, but never told me what they believed, which was a bit frustrating. My ex-coworker, a bartender at a restaurant I worked at one of 7 restaurants in 6 years, always called me a maniac, and she said it seriously, not jokingly, whether she was entertained by my behavior or not. Well, she was right, I was a maniac, living in an ongoing state of controlled bipolar mania.
>
> As a kid, my reactions to stressful events like my parents fighting and then separating were different than the typical child. I remember a few times going to my mother in the morning telling her everything seemed like it was sped up, feeling and sounding faster than normal. She sounded like she was talking in a rushed panicky manner. I felt drugged, though I still maintained a fairly calm manner of speach, just with some amount of fear behind it.
>
> So, there is no doubt that I was born with a genetic predisposition towards bipolar reactions to my environment and developing disabling conditions associated with bipolar disorder. It really sucks that I was not brought into a different world with parents that were better equipped to give me and my siblings what we needed. I don't dwell on this or hold bitterness(though I admit I am still in the process of properly channeling the inner anger, something that all of us likely have), it's just one thing that helps me understand and deal with my condition. I'm sure you can relate to wanting to better understand your condition and the reasons for it's development in order to hopefully better cope with it and come up with strategies to help manage it.
>
> I still suspect that you questioned my own understanding of being bipolar because you were pissed off at me. I guess it's a bit moot at this point. I don't really care now either way to be honest, just like you, I was slightly offended by your expression of obvious doubt, especially since I thought I had stated it several times, and even in direct responses to you, explaining in detail what I had been through.
>
> Morgan
Posted by floatingbridge on July 8, 2011, at 10:14:58
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » SLS, posted by morgan miller on July 7, 2011, at 13:03:40
Hey Morgan,
This is a moving narrative. You are just a great guy. As I think now about your sense of things being sped up as a child, is it anything like hyperactivity? I had thought there is something about adhd and BP sharing a genetic arm (?) if that's even a term. It's more common than thought. (I am not big into medicalizing that in children btw. Educational therapy first and ongoing, and awareness of goal sets over a dx).
At the er last week, a woman came in who had accidentally cut her hand on a table saw. She had driven herself. As we talked, she told me she had 'severe mixed agitated bipolar' or something like that. She started to do something I thought very interesting. She began thinking that it was her bipolar that caused this (really awful but common) accident to happen. Her mind went to work on this. I asked her if she was manic right now, and she said no, in fact her therapist that day had remarked how well and stable she had been for sometime. I guess I was very touched by her, and recognized that, even for someone with an unquestionably physical affliction, oh, you know, she could use her dx against herself, and she benefited from therapy just maybe to get along with others and seeing herself as being more than bipolar. I'm rambling here. I suppose my only point is that her dx and the history of it so haunted her. I mean, I can relate to being the f*ck*d up one very well.
Peace, Morgan.
> Scott, it's always been obvious to me you are far more intelligent in many ways than I am, or at least your mind has far more functional capacity tham mine. I think my impairment or lack of high function is affecting my ability to properly articulate what I believe about how these symptoms of coordination and balance are manifesting. I do think it could be purely biological, I said nothing that implied some kind of psychogenic or conversion reaction, at least I did not think so. I feel you are biased toward making assumptions about my statements here based on beliefs I've expressed in the past. You are saying that these symptoms are part of the disorder, I believe this might be true, just not true for most. Just like with any disorder that has a spectrum, different people that fall within it will experience different manifestations. All of our disorders are different, despite falling into the same category of diagnosis. Just as with medications, our brains respond differently to our disorders.
>
> I know several people that are bipolar, all of them farily coordinated, some of them athletes, and most of them have pretty damn good posture. Maybe there is something to this one study, I just believe that there needs to be more studies done and done more reliably.
>
> I am surprised that I upset you with my beliefs. I was just stating a belief that I did not think was that extreme or out there in a way to evoke such a reaction from you. I understand you would like to find answers. Unfortunately, those answers may never be withing our reach, and all we can do is get better. It is possible to get better without answers, I know you already know this.
>
> As far as me being bipolar is concerned, I have hospitalized myself(had to have someone drive me there) for two major mixed episodes. They were both horrific experiences that I am sure did quite a bit of damage, damage I am still recovering from. I also believe I am still recovering from what I believe to be somewhat irresponsible use of medications.
>
> Most of my life something has been off. I was lucky to be surrounded by some crazy *ss and very fun friends, which allowed me to sort of be myself and blend in. Still, I was different from the rest, and I'm not so sure them being crazy and liking my wild crazy behavior was always such a good thing.
>
> I realize my first mixed episode was at 22, when I finally gave in to Prozac. It was an amazing, and almost magical experience. The only problem was that I was more prone to hypomanic behavior(without the need for less sleep), which was not much different than before. I was more likely to take risks, have risky sex, act impulsively, and be defiant in the face of authority. But ya know what, Prozac helped me feel better, in more control, and more confident than I had ever felt before. I slept great and felt great. But after 9 months I was ready to get off as I started to feel a bit too numbed. Then the roller coaster of my 20s and 30s began, being on and off SSRIs until I was finally diagnosed a few years ago at Dominion Hospital in Falls Church, VA.
>
> Actually there was a fairly consistently stable and feel good period from 27 to 35. Until the end of that period, I was on Zoloft. My ability to escape reality, some help from fish oil, regular exercise(much of it intense), simply being young without any major physical issues, and having fun with friends(part of the escape), and Zoloft, all likely protected me from breaking down the way I did at the end of 34 and the beginning of 35, when I was hospitalized.
>
> During these years, I had a few friends just flat out tell me I was the most f*ck*d up person they knew. It didn't really always sink in, I just thought I was wild and that was the true me, that was simply my nature. Two girlfriends(just friends) told me later that they suspected all along that I was bipolar, but never told me what they believed, which was a bit frustrating. My ex-coworker, a bartender at a restaurant I worked at one of 7 restaurants in 6 years, always called me a maniac, and she said it seriously, not jokingly, whether she was entertained by my behavior or not. Well, she was right, I was a maniac, living in an ongoing state of controlled bipolar mania.
>
> As a kid, my reactions to stressful events like my parents fighting and then separating were different than the typical child. I remember a few times going to my mother in the morning telling her everything seemed like it was sped up, feeling and sounding faster than normal. She sounded like she was talking in a rushed panicky manner. I felt drugged, though I still maintained a fairly calm manner of speach, just with some amount of fear behind it.
>
> So, there is no doubt that I was born with a genetic predisposition towards bipolar reactions to my environment and developing disabling conditions associated with bipolar disorder. It really sucks that I was not brought into a different world with parents that were better equipped to give me and my siblings what we needed. I don't dwell on this or hold bitterness(though I admit I am still in the process of properly channeling the inner anger, something that all of us likely have), it's just one thing that helps me understand and deal with my condition. I'm sure you can relate to wanting to better understand your condition and the reasons for it's development in order to hopefully better cope with it and come up with strategies to help manage it.
>
> I still suspect that you questioned my own understanding of being bipolar because you were pissed off at me. I guess it's a bit moot at this point. I don't really care now either way to be honest, just like you, I was slightly offended by your expression of obvious doubt, especially since I thought I had stated it several times, and even in direct responses to you, explaining in detail what I had been through.
>
> Morgan
Posted by BetweenDreams81 on July 8, 2011, at 13:07:39
In reply to Re: Bipolar Disorder and Imaired Balance / Posture. » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on July 8, 2011, at 10:14:58
I just picked up on this thread...very interesting, and I can relate to the study in some form of way.
1. When I am anxious...which is most of the time if I decide not to religiously take meds...I feel almost like I am not fully in my body. I know that sounds REALLY weird and it is hard to explain. I get agitated and hyper self conscious and movement, especially fine movement, using hands, walking and feeling confident (*impossible*), picking up a receipt that is handed to me by a cashier all become excessively difficult and the feeling inside torments me. Depth perception or something is off. I go to grab for the receipt and miss. I am loading the coveyor belt at the register and cannot look up and fumble or fidget at how to arrange the goods. And I know it is so visibly obvious which makes this feeling even worse. Confidence shot.
2. Since the Wii has become the new big thing in recent years...that damn balance board gets me every time!! I have an INCREDIBLY difficult time getting that dot to stay with in the "center dot" range. It is nearly impossible. and yes, that could be due to lack of true fitness and core strength. But I do think that perception has a great deal to do with this crazy disease.
3. Morgan, something you mentioned about talking to your mom when you were a child about her speaking sounding sped up and things around you feeling like they were speeding up while you yourself were able to maintain a normal rate of speach (according to your own perception) is also interesting. In my family it seems as though the way one perceives things is very much a symptom...when I was younger, a teen, I can remember constantly being told not to get sooo on the defense that I was mincing words. And I know I feel that even now, I just have a bit more impulse control (*sometimes*) but again it is the perception of an accusatory remark that causes the reaction
So, what is it in the brain that is causing these perhaps "misperceptions" whether it is swaying while walking, hand-eye coordination, posture, tone of voice, speed at which the world is turning??
How does one tackle that? Is there anything?
Interesting topic! Thanks Scott for bringing it up...I was beginning to feel like I was the only freak ;0)
As an aside, very glad SLS and morganmiller have dropped the duelling guns xx
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