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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 5:52:17
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 1:53:11
Hi FB.
Has anyone suggested using gabapentin (Neurontin) to ease the withdrawal effects?
- Scott
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 7:47:56
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 5:52:17
> Hi FB.
>
> Has anyone suggested using gabapentin (Neurontin) to ease the withdrawal effects?
>
>She is probably over the hump by now anyway, at least for this dose reduction. It may help with future reductions, though.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 7:50:37
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » morgan miller, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 1:40:12
> I'm sooooo relieved MtDew posted that comment about norco taper. Guess I'll make it :D
>I'm glad it had that effect. Since you're still taking norco, the proof would be if you suddenly feel better after each norco dose, but gradually worsen as your next dose approaches. It should follow a very predictable pattern.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:11:13
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 7:50:37
Like clockwork. And I do feel like I've gotten over some sort of hump. Good. And, well, sobering. First the good. Maybe I'm not quite so wretched :D. It's just my chemically induced personality. I'm still going to work on more healthy anger expression (anger *hygiene*).
More sobering is the actual pain itself. I love seeing my body reset to lower doses of norco again. That shows resilience. However, the pain between doses can be insistent.
My Osteopath wrote my gp that he reccommends pain medication going forward. :( So, my choices seem to be a) narcotics--no(!), b) anti-depressants (failed cymbalta & lyrica--in flames; no thanks savella!) c) tricyclics (I love being AD free! Despite my cries for knock-out risperdal.) d) ? Zanaflex helps (milder muscle relaxant).
Of course, add gradated (graduated?) exercise and some meditation, plus more therapy, but I don't mind these.
Thanks one and all :)
fb
>
> I'm glad it had that effect. Since you're still taking norco, the proof would be if you suddenly feel better after each norco dose, but gradually worsen as your next dose approaches. It should follow a very predictable pattern.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:19:27
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 5:52:17
> Hi FB.
>
> Has anyone suggested using gabapentin (Neurontin) to ease the withdrawal effects?
>
>
> - ScottHey Scott,
Given an adverse trial of Lyrica, and that the Lyrica didn't seem to touch the main pain, could neurontin hold potential as a pain med going forward? And when I get to the next drop, I'll run it past my gp.
[You do know the Lyrica did walk me through snri withdrawal w/ little head-
zapping. That's the silver lining :) ]Thanks,
fb
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 11:34:14
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:19:27
> Given an adverse trial of Lyrica, and that the Lyrica didn't seem to touch the main pain, could neurontin hold potential as a pain med going forward? And when I get to the next drop, I'll run it past my gp.
>
> [You do know the Lyrica did walk me through snri withdrawal w/ little head-
> zapping. That's the silver lining :) ]
>
> Thanks,
>
> fbI know you didn't ask me, but I'm going to venture a guess that there's no way to know unless you try it. I have not had difficulty getting docs to prescribe Neurontin. Neurontin is usually used for neuropathic pain, which is pain that feels like tingling or burning and originates from the nerves. It's not used (to my knowledge) in other kinds of pain. I'm not sure about fibro, but it strikes me as plausible.
Posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 11:56:32
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:19:27
> > Hi FB.
> >
> > Has anyone suggested using gabapentin (Neurontin) to ease the withdrawal effects?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> Hey Scott,
>
> Given an adverse trial of Lyrica, and that the Lyrica didn't seem to touch the main pain, could neurontin hold potential as a pain med going forward? And when I get to the next drop, I'll run it past my gp.> [You do know the Lyrica did walk me through snri withdrawal w/ little head-
> zapping. That's the silver lining :) ]
>
> Thanks,
>
> fb
Lyrica and Neurontin are alike in many ways. Neither of them like me very much, though. They really screw me up cognitively (probably because of alpha-2-delta subunit of the calcium channel blockade). However, the two did feel different to me. There is some literature describing the use of Neurontin in opioid withdrawal. Results have been equivocal. The dosages used by some were probably too low (900mg). In any event, I would not approach Neurontin with great optimism. I would not skip it over, though.Pubmed:
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=opioid%20gabapentin%20withdrawal
Does your back hurt? You may experience more body pains during the process of hydrocodone discontinuation. Neurontin should help with these.
- Scott
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 12:32:42
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 11:56:32
> Lyrica and Neurontin are alike in many ways. Neither of them like me very much, though. They really screw me up cognitively (probably because of alpha-2-delta subunit of the calcium channel blockade). However, the two did feel different to me. There is some literature describing the use of Neurontin in opioid withdrawal. Results have been equivocal. The dosages used by some were probably too low (900mg). In any event, I would not approach Neurontin with great optimism. I would not skip it over, though.I don't quite understand why Lyrica is a controlled substance (but barely) and Neurontin is not. I have tried Neurontin, and at first it seemed like it could be described as "fun," but those effects went away. Never tried Lyrica. I wonder if it's like Neurontin, but moreso.
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 12:38:37
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 11:56:32
Also, I think it's interesting that Lyrica is the only controlled substance (that I know of) with anything remotely like that mechanism.
> Does your back hurt? You may experience more body pains during the process of hydrocodone discontinuation. Neurontin should help with these.
>I've "heard" that it makes you feel better when you're having opioid withdrawals to take stimulants. Even a cup of coffee makes you feel a little better and takes your mind off it.
Posted by sigismund on April 14, 2011, at 17:15:30
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » SLS, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:19:27
>could neurontin hold potential as a pain med going forward?
Not so much that, although it would be of some use.
When I had (my mild case of) shingles it helped.
But mainly it could be helpful to allow you to sit still while you drop the Norco.
If you are in pain, I don't think Norco is sillier than anything else (except somehow getting rid of the pain). It is really more to the point, isn't it? It has drawbacks, of course.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 18:31:20
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by mtdewcmu on April 14, 2011, at 12:38:37
> Also, I think it's interesting that Lyrica is the only controlled substance (that I know of) with anything remotely like that mechanism.
>I didn't know it was controlled. I think people feel kinda' drunk on it. I was sooo dopey, and people (afterwards) said my speech was slurred :( My doc did tell me to be careful on it (?). She offered it. Then, she gave me a scrip for MM. No I said. She said take it in case you change your mind (?). I dislike marijuana.
> >
>
> I've "heard" that it makes you feel better when you're having opioid
withdrawals to take stimulants. Even a cup of coffee makes you feel a little better and takes your mind off it.Out of coffee :( I just chipped a little off of a ultram er pill. That's all I have. Surprised to find that lurking because in a huff of feeling insulted, I brought my pharma bag down to the doc and dumped it. I get upset when my integrity is questioned :-/
However, today is very bad pain-wise and the cranky factor is 8 on a scale of ten. Can't continue taking bites out of Ultram or I'm shooting my own foot.
I might talk to gp about neurontin only if it's milder.
What's the old expression about that last step, *it's a doozie*.
I appreciate people writing, you and others. This is some tough sh*t for me--though my husband half teases that I'm a baby.
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 18:39:58
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by SLS on April 14, 2011, at 11:56:32
>
> Lyrica and Neurontin are alike in many ways. Neither of them like me very much, though. They really screw me up cognitively (probably because of alpha-2-delta subunit of the calcium channel blockade). However, the two did feel different to me. There is some literature describing the use of Neurontin in opioid withdrawal. Results have been equivocal. The dosages used by some were probably too low (900mg). In any event, I would not approach Neurontin with great optimism. I would not skip it over, though.Ditto on the cognition *-*
I'm gonna call the gp now. Thanks for the links. Today is turning out to be tough again.
Thanks Scott.
And everyone writing on this thread.
fb
>
> Pubmed:
>
> http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed?term=opioid%20gabapentin%20withdrawal
>
>
> Does your back hurt? You may experience more body pains during the process of hydrocodone discontinuation. Neurontin should help with these.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 19:56:58
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » floatingbridge, posted by sigismund on April 14, 2011, at 17:15:30
Posted by morgan miller on April 14, 2011, at 21:37:13
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 11:11:13
FB, I really think Zoloft(brand name is best IMHO) would be worth another shot. You did mention taking it at one point did you not? I believe Zoloft to be at the head of the class of SSRIs for those that respond well to it and have certain health conditions, due to it's potential for immunomodulation, anti-inflammatory effects, neuroprotection, and mTOR inhibition.
Posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2011, at 22:17:10
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 14, 2011, at 21:37:13
Seriously antiinflammatory how so? Seriously? Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on April 15, 2011, at 0:06:52
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2011, at 22:17:10
> Seriously antiinflammatory how so? Seriously? Phillipa
Zoloft is not the only AD that may be anti-inflammatory. I need to do a little search and find where I read about Zolofts potential to suppress inflammation. I know it does inhibit mTOR, which can suppress over growth/proliferation, making a potential chemopreventive against cancer.
Posted by morgan miller on April 15, 2011, at 0:09:10
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on April 14, 2011, at 22:17:10
> Seriously antiinflammatory how so? Seriously? Phillipa
Here is one study giving evidence for Zoloft's immunomodulatory and anti-inflammatory effects.
Posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2011, at 0:24:58
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 15, 2011, at 0:09:10
Morgan I also did a simple google search and all I came up was rheumatoid arthritis relief. I like yours better. Any other ad's anti-inflammatory as had the lymes still test positive and the horrible back pain. That one day 600mg of motrin every six hours and next day felt better than had in years. I just feel in my gut that some sort of inflammation is what's going on. Thanks for the link and appreciate the time you took. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on April 15, 2011, at 11:02:17
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist » morgan miller, posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2011, at 0:24:58
> Morgan I also did a simple google search and all I came up was rheumatoid arthritis relief. I like yours better. Any other ad's anti-inflammatory as had the lymes still test positive and the horrible back pain. That one day 600mg of motrin every six hours and next day felt better than had in years. I just feel in my gut that some sort of inflammation is what's going on. Thanks for the link and appreciate the time you took. Phillipa
Hey Pillipa, I'm not sure if you will notice any immediate effects for the anti-inflammatory mechanisms of some antidepressants. Now that I think about it actually, maybe I did notice less inflammation on Zoloft. It's just unlikely to be pronounced in the way you would get relief from drugs made specifically to treat the kind of inflammation you might be experiencing.
I'm really not exactly sure what the other anti-inflammatory ADs are.
Posted by floatingbridge on April 15, 2011, at 12:35:48
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by morgan miller on April 14, 2011, at 21:37:13
Morgan, what is mTOR?
I'm not inclined to start an ssri, but I won't say never.
Are you taking zoloft? (I've lost track; sorry :P )
Thanks for the link.
:-)
fb
Posted by floatingbridge on April 15, 2011, at 12:43:24
In reply to doxepin added tonight. neurontin nixed. (nm), posted by floatingbridge on April 14, 2011, at 19:56:58
Last night I took 10mg of doxepin. Tonight, I'm thinking half or less.
I have been appreciating the mixed bag of being off of AD's. This morning feeling very dopey :-/
Hoping less doxepin will help taper, help sleep, reduce anxiety.
What type of taper can be expected from doxepin? Can I take as needed? (I guess so.) Just to get over the bumps.
Slept like the dead; another mixed bag.
fb
Posted by Phillipa on April 15, 2011, at 20:10:25
In reply to Re: doxepin added » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on April 15, 2011, at 12:43:24
FB same as happened to me with a mere l0mg of pamelor. Phillipa
Posted by mtdewcmu on April 15, 2011, at 23:51:57
In reply to Re: doxepin added » floatingbridge, posted by floatingbridge on April 15, 2011, at 12:43:24
> I have been appreciating the mixed bag of being off of AD's. This morning feeling very dopey :-/
>
> Hoping less doxepin will help taper, help sleep, reduce anxiety.
>Back in the stone age, doxepin actually was an antidepressant. ;)
> What type of taper can be expected from doxepin? Can I take as needed? (I guess so.) Just to get over the bumps.
>If you're using doxepin as a sedative, you can take it as needed.
Posted by FrustratedMama on April 16, 2011, at 22:31:08
In reply to road mapping AD shortlist, posted by floatingbridge on April 13, 2011, at 7:01:24
I havent read the whole thread yet but I feel your pain and want you to know I am thinking about you!!!! HUGS and please get better soon. I NEED YOU!
Posted by floatingbridge on April 16, 2011, at 22:34:05
In reply to Re: road mapping AD shortlist, posted by FrustratedMama on April 16, 2011, at 22:31:08
Hey there! Thanks. Just wrote you.
No worries. Don't read it. Quite tedious. I'm hanging in there--really. Thanks for the kind thoughts.
Hugs back and you!
This is the end of the thread.
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