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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on September 25, 2010, at 14:44:01
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions » Leon Ousby, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2010, at 14:40:48
Its just like how one person can have a few drinks with friends to relax, and not have any issues, wherase another takes one drink and lapses back into severe alcoholism.
Sure, the alcoholic will rant around about the evils of alcohol, but it simply isn't evil for everbody.
Linkadge
Posted by Maxime on September 25, 2010, at 15:53:41
In reply to Benzo Addictions, posted by Leon Ousby on September 21, 2010, at 17:08:55
I think sometimes when talking about benzos the word/association is "addicted". I think sometimes we are really talking about tolerance. And yes, tolerance can lead to addiction (i.e. taking more and more benzos). I was on 4 mg of Clonazepam at one point. It's because I would be on a dosage and then I became tolerant of that dosage and so it had to be increased (I am now on .5 mg). So I wasn't really addicted in the true sense of the world. For instance I wasn't counting down the minutes of when I got my next dosage.
So that's my view on benzos and addiction. :)
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 25, 2010, at 16:20:38
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2010, at 14:44:01
Linkadge
I completely agree with... for some 1 drink is too many and 100 isn't enough...
Regards
My friend
Leon
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 16:25:15
In reply to Benzo Addictions, posted by Leon Ousby on September 21, 2010, at 17:08:55
Friends,
If you are considering posting in thiis thread oor if you are wanting to see reseach concerning benzodiazepines hat couldanswer some questions that are raised here, I am requesting that you read the following research report.
One aspect in the research is that the researcher found that there could be a delay in the withdrawal symptoms of 3 weeks.This could account for some poeple thinking that there is not a withdrawal if they are a person that takes three weeks for the withdrawal symptoms to appear and starts again the BZd before that time.
I have read of cases where the withdrawal is delayed for longer periods. When tha happens, it is possible then for the person experiancing withdrawal to think that what they are experiancing is somethibng other than that and reinstate that drug. Then when other drugs are involved, there could be other consequences, including death due to the combimnation of the drugs.
Lou
Here is a way to read the research article
A. pull up google
B. Type in:
[The Benzodiazepines-DR. Reg Peart]
The article that is on the top of the page when clicked on will say;
The Benzodiazepines Toxicity, Cognative Impairment, Long Term Damage..etc by Dr RF Peart Dec 2000
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 25, 2010, at 16:27:28
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions, posted by Maxime on September 25, 2010, at 15:53:41
Maxime
Good point... You're right with the tolerance. Yes it can lead to addiction. The truth is in 10 - 15 years from now medication that doctors are prescribing will be stopped or not prescribed as much due to the possibilities of addiction...
But you have hit the nail on the head with tolerance possibly turning into an addiction.
Best wishes
My friend
Leon
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 16:34:37
In reply to Lou's request-ekspurt, posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 16:25:15
> Friends,
> If you are considering posting in thiis thread oor if you are wanting to see reseach concerning benzodiazepines hat couldanswer some questions that are raised here, I am requesting that you read the following research report.
> One aspect in the research is that the researcher found that there could be a delay in the withdrawal symptoms of 3 weeks.This could account for some poeple thinking that there is not a withdrawal if they are a person that takes three weeks for the withdrawal symptoms to appear and starts again the BZd before that time.
> I have read of cases where the withdrawal is delayed for longer periods. When tha happens, it is possible then for the person experiancing withdrawal to think that what they are experiancing is somethibng other than that and reinstate that drug. Then when other drugs are involved, there could be other consequences, including death due to the combimnation of the drugs.
> Lou
> Here is a way to read the research article
> A. pull up google
> B. Type in:
> [The Benzodiazepines-DR. Reg Peart]
> The article that is on the top of the page when clicked on will say;
> The Benzodiazepines Toxicity, Cognative Impairment, Long Term Damage..etc by Dr RF Peart Dec 2000Friends,
If the page that comes up has a picture of Dr peart, there will be a list of his research articles and you could click on
The Benzodiazepines, Toxicity, Cognative Impairment, Long Term Damage...etc
Lou
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 25, 2010, at 16:49:26
In reply to Lou's request-ekspurt, posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 16:25:15
Hi Lou
Thank you for your post. The reason I decided to post here was for the simple fact that I am concerned with the young people that are out there taking street Benzos. Google is an ok source for information and Wikipedia will give you mixed views. You see I'm related to the Roche family, which is something I didn't have a choice over. I'm here to help those who may need assistance.
Keep dancing
Respect
Leon
Posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 17:04:46
In reply to Re: Lou's request-ekspurt, posted by Leon Ousby on September 25, 2010, at 16:49:26
> Hi Lou
>
> Thank you for your post. The reason I decided to post here was for the simple fact that I am concerned with the young people that are out there taking street Benzos. Google is an ok source for information and Wikipedia will give you mixed views. You see I'm related to the Roche family, which is something I didn't have a choice over. I'm here to help those who may need assistance.
>
> Keep dancing
>
> Respect
>
> LeonLeon,
Does this go back to the 1890's as Hoffman La Roche?
Lou
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 25, 2010, at 17:50:54
In reply to Lou's request-swiz » Leon Ousby, posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 17:04:46
Hi Lou
Yes it does and not a family I am always proud to be a member of. I have had many conversations and the original intentions were to assist patients. Unfortunately as Linkadge pointed out Tolerance is a huge problem with these kinds of medications. I have had endless conversations at conventions with regards to issues surrounding this potential trouble source.
These medications are needed in some cases and not everyone develops an addiction.
People who have created an addiction, just need to know that there is help and strategies that can help those unfortunate people overcome (In a short period) the issues.
Regards
Leon
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 26, 2010, at 13:13:07
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions » Leon Ousby, posted by linkadge on September 25, 2010, at 14:40:48
Hi Linkadge
I'm sure you do find Benzodiazepines effective. Thats the reason thay were created. Short term. I do agree with you with regards to the the tolerance factor. It certainly sounds like you don't have the addictive gene. Which is great.
With regards to the brain. We will have to agree to disagree on this one my friend.
My purpose is to help, inform and hopefully sway people to use alternatives rather than using these types of medications.
I'm in the process of writing a theatre show aimed for high school children to provide vital information with regards to all aspects of possible addiction.
Has we have both already agreed, not everybody gets addicted.
Kind regards
L Ousby
Posted by Maxime on September 26, 2010, at 20:00:55
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions, posted by Leon Ousby on September 26, 2010, at 13:13:07
> Hi Linkadge
>
>I'm in the process of writing a theatre show aimed for high school children to provide vital information with regards to all aspects of possible addiction.
>I love your idea for the play! There is a message that needs to get out there. Plus a lot of high school students might be addicted to Ritalin or Stimulants that they have been taking for ages for ADD.
I have read in several places that teachers often ask the parents if they can put their kid on Ritalin because the teacher has a hard time controlling overly crowded classrooms. Many of these kids don't need Ritalin.
Good luck with writing the play!
Posted by Leon Ousby on September 26, 2010, at 20:50:06
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions » Leon Ousby, posted by Maxime on September 26, 2010, at 20:00:55
Linkadge
Thank you for your support... Its great to have a conversation with someone that obviously knows what there talking about.
Kind Regards
Leon
Posted by sukarno on October 11, 2010, at 3:54:19
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions, posted by Leon Ousby on September 26, 2010, at 20:50:06
I've been on the same dosage of Xanax for _years_ and it still works. In fact, I still feel sleepy and relaxed all day. Of course, I only speak for myself, but I have had no problems with benzodiazepines and have been on them for 20 years.
It's great not to have panic attacks.
As for tapering: that is easy for most folks if they switch to diazepam and taper slowly.
Scare tactics are not very helpful in my opinion. Yes, there are wayward people abusing benzodiazepines off the street. However, they do not represent the majority of people who take them on a psychiatrist's prescription for panic disorder or other serious medical conditions that often require medication.
Scare tactics can cause people to abandon their medications, whether they are SSRIs, antipsychotics, sleeping pills, etc, and get worse.
Not everyone is the same and not everyone can live life without medication, just like some diabetics need insulin injections and heart patients need blood thinners.
This is the last time I post in this thread, btw.
*One of the reasons why I signed up at Dr Bob's website 7 or 8 years ago was to avoid the anti-medication crowd* - especially the "benzo bigots".
Please don't feel personally offended. I have been on the receiving end of a lot of abuse on other websites by folks who belittled my anxiety disorders. What was even worse was that those alarmists were not well-versed in even the most basic amount of pharmacology and lacked the ability to spell.
I'm glad to have a life largely free of panic attacks and am happy that you don't have to take pills to control your illness.
Take care and best wishes,
Paul
Posted by SLS on October 11, 2010, at 6:46:41
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions, posted by sukarno on October 11, 2010, at 3:54:19
> This is the last time I post in this thread, btw.
I hope you stick around a bit longer. It's nice to see familiar names return to this forum.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 11, 2010, at 6:51:34
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions » sukarno, posted by SLS on October 11, 2010, at 6:46:41
Do you think there might be a bit of benzo resentment/envy on the part of people for whom benzos did not provide an effective treatment without addiction or tolerance?
- Scott
Posted by Lou Pilder on October 11, 2010, at 7:46:32
In reply to Lou's request-swiz » Leon Ousby, posted by Lou Pilder on September 25, 2010, at 17:04:46
Friends,
If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you read the following article.
Lou
You can read this article by;
A. Pull up google
B. Type in:
[Long-term effects of Benzodiazepines, Wikipedia]
Posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:27:13
In reply to Lou's request-psoyuwnahtheykbezoz?, posted by Lou Pilder on October 11, 2010, at 7:46:32
No disrespect intended Lou, but you are *not* in a position to make requests all the time.
I think you need to change your wording. Something like "I recommend that you read such and such article" or "I think you might find the following YouTube video helpful.". In my opinion no member on PB has the right to request anything from other members unless another member is being rude or swearing. You can request that stop that. behavoiur.
And please don't respond to my post with yet another request.
Posted by europerep on October 17, 2010, at 14:59:18
In reply to Re: Lou's request-psoyuwnahtheykbezoz? » Lou Pilder, posted by Maxime on October 14, 2010, at 22:27:13
> And please don't respond to my post with yet another request.Don't worry, he won't respond to you at all, as always when he's being criticized...
I find his way of intervening here, keen to make his point over and over and over again, being not the least bit interested in the individual he's replying to, and straight out ignoring every time he's being called out on his behavior, as not in line with any forum policy I could personally endorse. I do not get this "civil" thing, and I have decided to not look into it, but if "uncivil" is how things have to be here in order to not be accepted, then I find his behavior uncivil. Dan_MI did correctly point out how the way he posts could make newbies think that he's some sort of moderator or highly regarded member (yet another reason to leave this archaic forum behind and have a nice PHP forum, where moderators and "high-ranking" members are clearly discernible).
What makes me more mad than anything else though, is how his question list always ends up with
U) more questions when the above questions are answered
as if there was no possible way in answering and justifying oneself in front of him that he would have to accept as "ok, that's his/her view, I disagree but I respect it".. he doesn't want to discuss, and he doesn't want to hear what others have to say. for me, that's not a valid basis for any sort of interaction, and I find Bob's legalistic "anything that isn't expressly forbidden is allowed" attitude quite lame, tbh.
Posted by Florence on October 17, 2010, at 19:48:12
In reply to Re: Benzo Addictions » sukarno, posted by SLS on October 11, 2010, at 6:46:41
I agree with Scott.. Please stick around with the rest of us who have been on this site for many years.
Your input has been invaluable to me.Florence
Posted by Leon Ousby on October 17, 2010, at 22:40:35
In reply to Re: Lou's request-psoyuwnahtheykbezoz?, posted by europerep on October 17, 2010, at 14:59:18
Wow sounds kinda political...
I personally respect each and everyone of you who speak out. It takes a lot for people to do that...
Don't stop posting... I love reading your stories and issues... even if you're just having a bad day and want to get something of your chest... I know I'd like to think people would care about something I want to say...
Peace
x
Posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:47:13
In reply to Re: Lou's request-psoyuwnahtheykbezoz?, posted by europerep on October 17, 2010, at 14:59:18
> ... he doesn't want to discuss, and he doesn't want to hear what others have to say.
>Please don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. The administration here suggests those who find the civility guidelines difficult to navigate find a "civility buddy" to help review posts which might violate them. Additionally, you can choose not to read posts written by those whose views you do not share. If you find a particular post offensive or uncivil, please use the Notify Administrators button to report the post.
If you have any questions regarding the posting policies on this site, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil Follow ups to this action should be directed to the Administration board and should themselves be civil.
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over all administrative issues on this site, and may choose at any time to revise or reverse any action taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by twinleaf on October 21, 2010, at 10:22:19
In reply to Please be civil » europerep, posted by Deputy Racer on October 20, 2010, at 12:47:13
Hi Racer. As an old poster, it is very tantalizing to see you posting as a deputy, but not as a member of the community. I would love to know how you are.
Posted by Dinah on October 23, 2010, at 10:31:55
In reply to Lou's request-psoyuwnahtheykbezoz?, posted by Lou Pilder on October 11, 2010, at 7:46:32
When I read the wording "If you are considering being a discussant in this thread or parallel threads, I am requesting that you read the following article." I tend to feel unwelcome on a thread. Because in general I'm not going to click on a link to read something else or watch a video. That's just me. I tend to be very careful about clicking on links. So then I feel like maybe I shouldn't contribute to the thread.
I try to remind myself that such requests, unless they come from the originating poster, are simply requests by an individual poster, and that I probably should assume I am perfectly welcome to comment without clicking the links. Particularly if I don't reply to the poster requesting that I do so.
Should an originating poster, of course, make the request, they would be starting a thread about those links, and I'd think myself pretty useless if I responded without reading/viewing them, so I'd respond or not based on whether I clicked.
But it is hard for me to remember sometimes. My kneejerk reaction is to think "Oh, well then I'll skip this thread." Which isn't really fair of me to the original poster I suppose...
This post is about my reactions to requests, not about the requestor.
Posted by Dinah on October 23, 2010, at 10:41:47
In reply to Benzo Addictions, posted by Leon Ousby on September 21, 2010, at 17:08:55
I think care should be taken with any medication, not just benzos. I come from a family with a long history of addictions to alcohol, gambling, and just about anything really, so I'm extra careful.
I never had a problem with the klonopin I took for years at the same or increasingly less dosage than originally prescribed. I'm now off it entirely. I do think it's important to taper gradually. I had some interesting temporal lobe experiences when I stopped abruptly. I'm not sure how addictive Klonopin is in comparison with other benzos.
On the other hand, I think I'm at least dependent on provigil. Fortunately I don't think I need to increase the dose, but I know I couldn't do without what I take.
It never hurts to be careful and responsible with any medication. And of course be open with doctors.
I didn't read all the posts on this thread. Did you have a problem yourself? I know how devastating addictions can be.
Posted by maxime on October 23, 2010, at 19:20:28
In reply to If you are considering being a discussant..., posted by Dinah on October 23, 2010, at 10:31:55
I agree with you. There is *no* discussion. Just one video link after another. Maybe I would be more open about these threads if the person starting the thread would actually DISCUSS a topic rather than just posting links to a video. Or if there is a compelling need to post a video, than at least it would come with some discussion as well.
This is the end of the thread.
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