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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 6:06:56
Ah, you're in quebec. Inositol is here in ontario. But, there are other supplements I can't get in ontario like picamilon, or lithium (supplemental) etc.
Linkadge
Posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 6:55:21
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
Its also interesting that there are quite a few from Canada here. Maybe you'd be better now if you were living in the U.S. (and you had insurance of course.)
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 7:55:48
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 6:55:21
>Maybe you'd be better now if you were living in the U.S.
If you want free samples of the latest and greatest new med, yes. Unfortunately, it may also involve being a guinea pig for new side effects, new withdrawal symptoms and often ends up costing a lot of money. In addition, a lot of 'new' meds are just overpriced me-too drugs and patent extenders eg. Pristiq. Perhaps Canada are excessively strict, but there is a lot to be said for being cautious when it comes to new medications which will end up being prescribed for millions of people.
The European authorities appear to be similar in 'strictness' to the FDA, but they sometimes have differing opinions. You have some meds and we don't and vice versa. Also depends on whether the manufacturers applied for approval. Overall, there are many more meds available in the US.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 8:08:58
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
> Ah, you're in quebec. Inositol is here in ontario. But, there are other supplements I can't get in ontario like picamilon, or lithium (supplemental) etc.
>
> LinkadgeYeah, Quebec city... french QUÉBÉCOIS not Canadian!!! lol ;-)
Humm I see... I think the other guy is right... perhaps it's better to have meds later in the Canada, at least when they are launch in the Canada, they are well tested... But here also all the PDoc I had and the one I have now are trying to push new meds... Had several samples boxes, especially for the Cipralex (Lexapro), Pristiq, Cymbalta... throw all of them in garbaage... especially the Cymbalta, who I hated a lot!!! Anxiety disorder and noradrenaline reputake is not something who work for everyone...
Anyway... I remember one med, Serzone, who was withdraw from the Canadian market in 2003, they don't have it in a generic form in the Canada... wonder why in the USA they have it...it was good for the anxiety, far better than the Desyrel ( less next day sedation and less increase anxiety at daytime)...
Posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 8:49:15
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 7:55:48
I agree about those dumb me too drugs. Pristiq doesn't even have DRI like the original. Yes we are guinea pigs, but it seems like you get the same drugs eventually anyway. Cymbalta is still linked with liver problems and Canada still approved it. I dont' think its the new drugs that keeps canadian's from getting well. I think its the time it takeks to see a pdoc and then short appointment times. How can they make an accurate assessment if its hard to get consistent visits and they are short like someone on he recently stated?
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 10:36:23
In reply to Re: oh canada! » linkadge, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 8:08:58
>don't have it in a generic form in the Canada... wonder why in the USA they have it...
Because the USA is the biggest market for prescription drugs in the world, there are a lot of people and prescribing is very high - in spite of the very high cost of new medicines. Even infrequently prescribed products sell well enough to make it worthwhile for the manufacturer. If they tried to sell generic nefazodone elsewhere, it probably wouldn't be prescribed enough to make it financially viable for the manufacturers and suppliers. We don't have it here either, it simply wouldn't be prescribed... or very rarely.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 10:40:09
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 8:49:15
>How can they make an accurate assessment if its hard to get consistent visits and they are short like someone on he recently stated?
I get the impression that Healthcare in the US works very well for those who have good insurance, plenty of money, or both. For those who don't it can be very difficult. Healthcare is fairer here, but the quality is variable and waiting times are often too long. Access to new treatments (eg. for cancer) is sometimes poor.
The Brits are quite medication phobic, but the doctors still prescribe a lot. Most of it ends up in the bin.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 11:19:02
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 8:49:15
> I agree about those dumb me too drugs. Pristiq doesn't even have DRI like the original. Yes we are guinea pigs, but it seems like you get the same drugs eventually anyway. Cymbalta is still linked with liver problems and Canada still approved it. I dont' think its the new drugs that keeps canadian's from getting well. I think its the time it takeks to see a pdoc and then short appointment times. How can they make an accurate assessment if its hard to get consistent visits and they are short like someone on he recently stated?
**************************************************
You're so right!!! The problem is not the meds themself, well not all the meds... some of them are very bad... but the main problem it's the time it takes to see a PDoc, sometimes more than 1 year, so your anxiety/depression or any other psychological disorder get worse because it's untreated for that whole year...
Also, sometimes you fall on a PDoc that you don't like or seem to don't care about you and if you complaim and ask to see another one it's really complicated so you keep the same and feel not well understand and hopeless...
Most of the PDoc don't take more than 30 minutes for 1 appointment, they just talk about meds and if all the meds fail, they don't know what to do and they say stupid thing like start practicing yoga...or relaxation... that's not the kind of help a patient need...
The fact that the PDoc or free Psychologist don't take time to listen to you is also a big problem... if you complaim about physical pain, as well as weird anxiety symptoms, they told you that you only need reassurance, and that it's not their job to do reassurance with you...
Same for the free Psychologist, they don't take the time to listen to you because they will see you only 12 times for about 45 minutes... The waiting list is long and they let you know that you are not alone to need help and make you feel not compliant to their therapy... and most of the time they rush the CBT therapy and they are agressive in a way, since they put pressure on you to do exposure to your fears at week 1, even if you are not ready and need to understand why you feel so anxious, why you have so many weird symptoms and what kind of bad emotions hide behind those weird anxiety symptoms... no wonder why CBT fail most of the time on a lot of peoples... I think the patient need to talk first, they need to talk weekly about the symptoms they have, how they feel, talk about their emotions... If the Psychologist only talk about your bad thoughs who need to be change in good thoughs and they put pressure on you do to agressive exposure to fears, it will not work for sure...
So that's hard to not feel frustrated when you face that kind of problems... I don't think it's like that in all the Canada... but for the Quebec province that's bad...we need more PDoc and Family Doc also... that's another problem... no wonder why they go work outside the Canada...anyway...
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 11:22:23
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 10:36:23
> >don't have it in a generic form in the Canada... wonder why in the USA they have it...
>
> Because the USA is the biggest market for prescription drugs in the world, there are a lot of people and prescribing is very high - in spite of the very high cost of new medicines. Even infrequently prescribed products sell well enough to make it worthwhile for the manufacturer. If they tried to sell generic nefazodone elsewhere, it probably wouldn't be prescribed enough to make it financially viable for the manufacturers and suppliers. We don't have it here either, it simply wouldn't be prescribed... or very rarely.
************************************************Yeah, I understand... the Canadian market is smaller for sure... and drugs company want to make money after all... that's the goal...
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 11:48:41
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 11:19:02
It sounds like England. We don't have many pdocs, and each one has a lot of patients. Even psychotic patients don't get seen that often.
> You're so right!!! The problem is not the meds themself, well not all the meds... some of them are very bad... but the main problem it's the time it takes to see a PDoc, sometimes more than 1 year, so your anxiety/depression or any other psychological disorder get worse because it's untreated for that whole year...
>
> Also, sometimes you fall on a PDoc that you don't like or seem to don't care about you and if you complaim and ask to see another one it's really complicated so you keep the same and feel not well understand and hopeless...
>
> Most of the PDoc don't take more than 30 minutes for 1 appointment, they just talk about meds and if all the meds fail, they don't know what to do and they say stupid thing like start practicing yoga...or relaxation... that's not the kind of help a patient need...
>
> The fact that the PDoc or free Psychologist don't take time to listen to you is also a big problem... if you complaim about physical pain, as well as weird anxiety symptoms, they told you that you only need reassurance, and that it's not their job to do reassurance with you...
>
> Same for the free Psychologist, they don't take the time to listen to you because they will see you only 12 times for about 45 minutes... The waiting list is long and they let you know that you are not alone to need help and make you feel not compliant to their therapy... and most of the time they rush the CBT therapy and they are agressive in a way, since they put pressure on you to do exposure to your fears at week 1, even if you are not ready and need to understand why you feel so anxious, why you have so many weird symptoms and what kind of bad emotions hide behind those weird anxiety symptoms... no wonder why CBT fail most of the time on a lot of peoples... I think the patient need to talk first, they need to talk weekly about the symptoms they have, how they feel, talk about their emotions... If the Psychologist only talk about your bad thoughs who need to be change in good thoughs and they put pressure on you do to agressive exposure to fears, it will not work for sure...
>
> So that's hard to not feel frustrated when you face that kind of problems... I don't think it's like that in all the Canada... but for the Quebec province that's bad...we need more PDoc and Family Doc also... that's another problem... no wonder why they go work outside the Canada...anyway...
Posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 12:04:22
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 10:40:09
I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 12:13:14
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 11:48:41
> It sounds like England. We don't have many pdocs, and each one has a lot of patients. Even psychotic patients don't get seen that often.
>
>Same here... not a lot of PDoc for sure and they have too many patients... but I see mine every month, sometimes he cancel my appointment at the last minute and schedule another one 1-2 weeks later... but most of the time it's 1 time a month...
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 12:19:12
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 12:04:22
>I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
There are quite a lot of people here who seem to take advantage of our social security and healthcare systems.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 12:25:06
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 12:04:22
> I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
I understand that... BUT to be able to have a job, you need to be in good mental shape... if you can't go out of your house and walk alone in a street, I don't see how you will be able to go to work and have to energy to do it... also what kind of work you will able to do in in a bad mental state??? When you have difficulty to take a shower because you are all the time tired because of too many worries and anxiety symptoms who are chronic? I just mean that some peoples will exaggerate their problems but others will not... and for those peoples, being hopeless after years of bad medical care and no solution can lead to worse mental disorder...
I do admit that maybe some peoples will sit on their laurels and just wait... but i'm sure most of them don't do it on purpose... and if they do it on purpose, there will always be people who will abuse from the medical system and will do nothing to get better... and some peoples like me, who will try everything to find a solution and just get well...but sadly will not find the good solutions before years...
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 12:28:34
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by linkadge on September 19, 2010, at 6:45:50
> Ah, you're in quebec. Inositol is here in ontario. But, there are other supplements I can't get in ontario like picamilon, or lithium (supplemental) etc.
>
> LinkadgeI'm curious Linkadge,
I know that i'm not posting that question on the good board, but why you take Inositol? Is it working good? Order it, receive it but was to afraid to increase the dosage to 18 gramms a day like they say in the study for panic disorder...
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:31:26
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 12:04:22
> I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
Vincent, don't you get your meds for free since you are on Welfare? I do. There are a couple that are not part of the plan and my doctor had to fill in an exemption form and then I got them. When you are on Welfare there is no way that you can pays for med. When you are on Welfare you are barely able to spend a penny extra.
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:33:00
In reply to Re: oh canada!, posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 12:19:12
> >I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
>
> There are quite a lot of people here who seem to take advantage of our social security and healthcare systems.
>
>I agree. And those people make it harder for us, the ones who stick to the rules. Those people really piss me off!
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:36:01
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Conundrum on September 19, 2010, at 12:04:22
> I don't have good healthcare here in the US but its forcing me to look for job, so thats not necessarily a bad thing. It forces people not to sit on their laurels. Not saying canadians do, but I know americans would.
People abuse the system here. When you are on Welfare you get all your meds for free. So why would you try to get a job. I hated being on Welfare. I only started my new job a week ago and I feel better about myself. When I am welfare I feel like a parasite of society.
It's hard to look for a job because there are not many out there. I hope you find something soon.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on September 19, 2010, at 15:57:28
In reply to Re: oh canada! » ed_uk2010, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:33:00
>Those people really piss me off!
Yep, there are people out there who really know how to work the system!
I'm glad you feel better about yourself since starting your new job. It's a big step forward.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 17:27:25
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:31:26
> Vincent, don't you get your meds for free since you are on Welfare? I do. There are a couple that are not part of the plan and my doctor had to fill in an exemption form and then I got them. When you are on Welfare there is no way that you can pays for med. When you are on Welfare you are barely able to spend a penny extra.Yes Maxime, I have them free with the exception of some meds that I try and who was used for other medical treatment than for the anxiety disorders (Off-Label)... but that's happen 2 times only...
Normally, meds who are not free are brand names meds... If I ask for the real Clonazepam or Xanax or real Ativan who disolve under the tongue, I will have to pay the full price... same for all the antidepressant meds who are not generic, of course, if the Pharmacist only keep in stock the brand name, it will be free...
Sometimes if the PDoc write on the RX (Do not substitute for a generic), the Pharmacist will give the brand name, not generic, and it will be free, but most of the time I have to pay for brand name meds... I always find the generic weaker than the real ones, best example is the Paxil, the Apo-Paroxetine is by far the worse generic med in the world!!!
Also new meds with extend release formulation sometimes are not cover especially if they don't discontinue the regular release version.
Meds who = to old meds will not be cover (for example the Cipralex who is the same as Celexa but without the inactive part inside it and the Pristiq who is the same as the Effexor-Xr)...
And yes, I can't pay for my meds, the wellfare is very low money... have to pay my student loans also... that suck... was suppose to return to school but in that state I don't think it will happen before 1-2 years...
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 18:02:52
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 17:27:25
For the new meds that aren't covered you can get your doctor to fill out an exemption form and send it to the RAMQ. They usually accept the request. For instance, I can get Dexedrine no problem, but not Adderall. So my doctor has put in an exemption form so that I can get the Adderall. Although now I am thinking that Dexedrine is doing the same job as the Adderall XR. When I got Cymbalta my doctor had to fill out the form. It seems that new drugs aren't covered and then you have to fight to get them.
I think you are allowed to earn up to $200 a month and it won't affect your Welfare. Perhaps you could start with a part time job for a while.
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 18:09:54
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Conundrum, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 15:36:01
> People abuse the system here. When you are on Welfare you get all your meds for free. So why would you try to get a job. I hated being on Welfare. I only started my new job a week ago and I feel better about myself. When I am welfare I feel like a parasite of society.
>
> It's hard to look for a job because there are not many out there. I hope you find something soon.*************************************************
Maxime, I think you have to be carefull and not generalise here... not everyone abuse of the system... and having meds for free is not a good reason to be on the wellfare... I admit that some peoples tend to abuse of the system, but they are not sick...just lazy...and it's maybe only 5% of the peoples on the wellfare... REmember that a lot of peoples loose their job in the last years because of the bad economy... i'm sure they didn't wanted to ending on the wellfare but sometimes they have no choice...
I felt guilty for a long time in the last 2 years because i'm on the wellfare... but I worked for almost 20 years and I had money retrieve from my pay check every week at the time and it was to cover those kind of social programs... so now I don't feel guilty!!!
Some peoples in the last 2 years treat me like sh*t because i'm on the wellfare... some of them said that I didn't want to work, that I was coward and lazy, that I was just a piece of sh*t living in the hook of the society, that I didn't had any human rights... Trust me, hearing this is not helping you to get better...
Peoples who are not sick and work are often frustrated when they see someone on the wellfare... But they don't understand what it is to be depressive, anxious, bi-polar or whatever the disease you can have... they have no idea of what it is and they judge us... I hate those peoples...
It's like the TV announcement that play 1-2 years ago... where you see a guy in an hospital bed and all his co-worker go to see him and told him he choose a good time to take some holidays... That the best example of how peoples have bad jugdments and poor opinion about mental diseases...
Find a job when you can't get out of the house will not make me more happy... I understand that you can feel better about yourself and i'm proud of you that you have a job now, and I can understand that you now feel better because of this... but for some peoples, working is impossible...
When I will get better, I will start by doing volunter work, will have my own work schedule, just to put me again into the work world...will respect my limits... will return to school for sure at the same time and with hope I will be heal or stable and will be able to find a good job in my study field...
Posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 18:18:32
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Vincent_QC, posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 18:02:52
> For the new meds that aren't covered you can get your doctor to fill out an exemption form and send it to the RAMQ. They usually accept the request. For instance, I can get Dexedrine no problem, but not Adderall. So my doctor has put in an exemption form so that I can get the Adderall. Although now I am thinking that Dexedrine is doing the same job as the Adderall XR. When I got Cymbalta my doctor had to fill out the form. It seems that new drugs aren't covered and then you have to fight to get them.
>Yeah, was on the Cipralex for 3 months with the RAMQ programm(Patient d'exception)...PDoc was out of samples box for it...
> I think you are allowed to earn up to $200 a month and it won't affect your Welfare. Perhaps you could start with a part time job for a while.
Yes 200$... but can't get out of my house (only for PDoc appointment and Therapy), have to work on my exposure, who is not easy... don't have the energy and the cognitives abilities to have a work for sure, thanks to the Clonazepam, just take a shower is making me so tired... can't imagine to have to deal with a work on the top of my anxiety disorders... I do it one step at the time... that's something I learn over the years...
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 22:12:52
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 18:09:54
Sorry, I didn't mean to generalize. I have been on Welfare a few times since 2001. It saved me. I couldn't work because I could barely function. So I know what it's like.
I am working now but have only worked 1 week. I still don't know if I will be able to keep my job. This is a test run for me. I really don't know how my body/brain will react to the stress of the job. I don't want to have a meltdown but it's at the back of my mind all the time.
Before I got this job I was volunteering and that helped me get out the house and face my fears. I am going to continue with my volunteer work even though I have a job. I really enjoy the volunteer work that I do. I think it's an excellent idea for you to try and do some. I know it's scary, but I find that when you volunteer, the organization is so appreciative and it feels good to receive positive comments.
So I am sorry if I offended you in any way. That was not my intention.
Take care.
Maxie
Posted by Maxime on September 19, 2010, at 22:21:47
In reply to Re: oh canada! » Maxime, posted by Vincent_QC on September 19, 2010, at 18:18:32
> Yes 200$... but can't get out of my house (only for PDoc appointment and Therapy), have to work on my exposure, who is not easy... don't have the energy and the cognitives abilities to have a work for sure, thanks to the Clonazepam, just take a shower is making me so tired... can't imagine to have to deal with a work on the top of my anxiety disorders... I do it one step at the time... that's something I learn over the years...
Have your doctors looked at the possibility that you have something in addition to the psych problems? Have you had your thyroid tested and all that fun stuff?
Anxiety is scary. It feels like something is swallowing you whole. I am glad to hear that you are doing therapy in addition to seeing the psychiatrist. What do you find helps the most? Therapy or meds? I imagine a combination of the two.
Do you feel like your pdoc is trying appropriate meds for you? Is there a med that you would like to try but your pdoc doesn't think it will work?
Sorry for all the questions.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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