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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 20:27:36
In reply to sound familiar?, posted by maya3 on July 20, 2010, at 13:19:01
Psychodynamic therapy by a really good therapist with empathy, compassion and a Phd. in clinical psychology may be beneficial for what you are experiencing. Our toxic past plays a major role in the development of our illnesses.
Posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 8:46:49
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 24, 2010, at 20:27:36
> Psychodynamic therapy by a really good therapist with empathy, compassion and a Phd. in clinical psychology may be beneficial for what you are experiencing. Our toxic past plays a major role in the development of our illnesses.
Thank you for your message.
May I ask what you suffer from?
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 12:05:10
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 8:46:49
> > Psychodynamic therapy by a really good therapist with empathy, compassion and a Phd. in clinical psychology may be beneficial for what you are experiencing. Our toxic past plays a major role in the development of our illnesses.
>
> Thank you for your message.
> May I ask what you suffer from?
>
>Bipolar somewhere under the wide spectrum of the disorder. I've had issues with anxiety and depression on and off for years. I also had a few periods of mixed state mania. The first 2 mixed states went undetected and I was not diagnosed. The last one was by far the worst and I ended up in the hospital.
All I can say is that my struggle with my genetic bipolar predisposition and the development of it would NOT have been as bad had it not been for all the crap and neglect I experienced in my childhood.
Therapy is not easy at all. You have to make a commitment and deal with some unpleasant feelings and emotions. I know therapy has helped me. Unfortunately because my bipolar went undiagnosed it actually ended up interfering with the therapeutic process. Now I'm trying to get back to being able to do the work I need to do in therapy and not allow all this hell from the last 2 years and my current circumstance to get in the way. It's not easy but I know there will be pay off in the near future.
Morgan
Posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 13:50:55
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 12:05:10
I am sorry the bipolar disorder wasn't diagnosed properly. How do you manage to keep it from interfering with the therapy process?
Take care,
Maya.
Posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 15:22:18
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 13:50:55
There are other things interfering like things I have done to myself as a result of being bipolar and neglected in certain ways during childhood. I am so uncomfortable and miserable and not feeling well in so many ways, it is difficult for me to focus on what I need to in therapy. I have been discussing this with my therapist, who is great, and he understands. I believe I am beginning to get to the point where I will start focusing on what I need to instead of focusing on everything that is wrong with me and how angry I am than any of this ever happened. I need to focus my inner subconscious anger towards my parents and learn to deal with it and channel it in a positive way instead of it being turned inward on myself. I need to focus on how I was neglected and try to heal from it so that I can start caring for and loving myself the way I should have. I love my parents and I know they love me dearly, I just think they had too much going on and did not know how to consistently nurture and love me. I believe this is an epidemic and is one of several reasons why people develop mental illness the way they do.
So you are bipolar or you do not know exactly what is going on with you? Sorry, my hurting brain can't remember if you mentioned this before.
Morgan.
Posted by Zyprexa on July 25, 2010, at 21:55:20
In reply to Re: sound really familiar? » Zyprexa, posted by jade k on July 23, 2010, at 12:01:37
What do I need to do with the doctor? I have a psychiatrist now, which I'm seeing on a 2-3 month basis. I am stable on my meds now.
Posted by maya3 on July 26, 2010, at 6:14:02
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by morgan miller on July 25, 2010, at 15:22:18
Morgan, I am sorry to hear this is so difficult for you. I hope it will get easier with time.
I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder which is a combination of schizophrenia and bipolar.
Btw, do you feel that meds you are taking interfere with your ability to do the work in therapy?
Posted by morgan miller on July 26, 2010, at 18:25:24
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 26, 2010, at 6:14:02
> Morgan, I am sorry to hear this is so difficult for you. I hope it will get easier with time.
> I was diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder which is a combination of schizophrenia and bipolar.
> Btw, do you feel that meds you are taking interfere with your ability to do the work in therapy?Nope, don't think the meds really interfere much. I think my old therapist thought Zoloft might have been getting in the way. I don't know. Actually, if I feel really good on medication then I can more easily access things like empathy and compassion which would make it easier to make progress in therapy.
So what are you taking for treatment? Sorry if you stated this in your original post.
Are you in therapy or have you ever been in therapy?
Posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 7:44:08
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 26, 2010, at 18:25:24
I take celexa and have been in therapy for years, but since having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder I have been told that I cannot benefit from therapy.
Posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 9:15:20
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 7:44:08
"I take celexa and have been in therapy for years, but since having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder I have been told that I cannot benefit from therapy."
May I ask how the diagnosis only recently came to light despite being in therapy for years?
People with schitzophrenia benefit from therapy and people with bipolar do as well. How does having a dx of schizoaffective disorder affect your prognosis? Maya-surely this therapist meant s/he personally could not provide therapy to benefit you-rather than in general?
Posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 9:15:20
Hi Violette,
> May I ask how the diagnosis only recently came to light despite being in therapy for years?
For some reason my condition was mistaken for personality disorders, which I believe I still suffer from. It is possble that a psychotic break several years ago enabled them to see what I had suspected and succeeded in hiding well for many years. Previous attempts to explain or understand my psychotic symptoms resulted in sarcastic remarks on their part about my "wanting to be schizophrenic" (!)
> People with schitzophrenia benefit from therapy and people with bipolar do as well. How does having a dx of schizoaffective disorder affect your prognosis? Maya-surely this therapist meant s/he personally could not provide therapy to benefit you-rather than in general?Actually, there was one T who told me several years ago that there was no point in my seeing him and that I need to go to rehab instead. I was confused and upset, after a suicide attempt induced by psychotic depression and needed to clear up things that had pushed me over the edge, but the T probably wanted to spare himself from dealing with the likes of me. The rehab center, by the way, has a waiting list and I am still waiting, over four years later.
Now I made an attempt to go to another T but understood that I am somehow written off as someone who constantly switches Ts (which is true), is not serious about therapy and should be treated with medication alone. A hot potato. What they don't understand is that there are obsessions I suffer from which might clear up if I get a chance to discuss them, but the fear of being ridiculed and shamed prevents me from addressing them. The difficulty in discussing things results in my "beating around the bush" and their probable conclusion is that I keep repeating the same nonsense, not making necessary changes and wasting time.
True, I tend to suffer from delusions, but not having a chance to discuss them and make sense of what is happening simply makes it worse.
I am aware of my faults and problematic personality and had really intended to deal with the problem this time, but the way things are going I will not get a chance.
Sorry about this rant, I simply couldn't help it.
Posted by Phillipa on July 27, 2010, at 20:06:00
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya you sound perfectly capable of being in theaphy you write and express yourself well. Phillipa
Posted by morgan miller on July 27, 2010, at 20:37:11
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 7:44:08
> I take celexa and have been in therapy for years, but since having been diagnosed with schizoaffective disorder I have been told that I cannot benefit from therapy.
I don't believe that. That's like being told to cant benefit from a good diet, exercise and fish oil. Therapy won't be the cure, but I'm sure it can benefit in some way.
Posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 27, 2010, at 20:37:11
I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 21:51:50
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya,
That's sad you were thought to have been malingering in some way-it's happened to a couple people I know, one person who I know well. Please don't think that personally reflects on you-it's actually more common in the mental health system than some might think.
I think some Ts who are unqualified or who tend to get over involved with their patients might be hestitant to take a patient who has been a suicide risk in the past. This might be especially true if a therapist lost a patient to suicide, as I'd imagine this happens throughout many Ts careers. Some can't handle this due to their own insecurities or attachment issues, or just being too sensitive/empathetic to handle it.
But maybe if you seek out a T who specializes in childhood traumas, you might find a better fit? Also-it might help to speak to a therapist on the phone for a bit first (unsure if you have done this) that way, you won't be T hopping so much....You might seek a T who does a formal assessment interview to derive their own conclusions rather than your history with or from other Ts? If they ask you about prior Ts, maybe you could say you don't wish to talk about it now, or better yet, state you have simply not found a good match and that is the purpose of seeking a new therapist.
It took me 10 years to find the right therapist. But they are out there. My therapist knew I had several before him, but was not the least bit concerned or interested in talking to them about my history-as he wanted to formulate his own view of my core issues and not be tainted by another's subjectivity. There are therapists who view you as a person, not a diagnosis, or question the diagnoses of past therapists if you choose to disclose them. I don't think the psychosis would be an issue either way.
Some therapists do want patients with the less complex issues, that is true, but others are interested in treating different types of patients for whatever reasons, such as being bored with treating patients with mild depression, for example.
Are the obsessions related to the therapist relationship? If so, there's no reason you need to talk about that upfront. It happens with alot of people I hear, most keep it from their therapists, at least for a while. I think it's important to build trust before self-disclosing too much. I didn't see it that way in the past-but have since read many stories and looked back at a time when I disclosed too much too soon with a new therapist, which ended up unfavorably. The stronger you build the trust and relationship, the easier it becomes to discuss those fears. Try to be patient and work on the trust first.
My T said the only crazy people out there are those who don't think there is anything 'wrong'. You have much insight into your situation, sound very psychologically minded, intelligent, considerate...and considering that, I'd bet you have other strengths too...and it seems you may be a bit hard on yourself, as many of us are, in thinking of the how other Ts have viewed you in the past. Many Ts have issues of their own. If a T is avoidant by nature, it might not work to have a patient who gets attached quickly; a therapist who is more narcissistic might prefer patients who get more easily attached. Whatever the case may be, there are so many variables involved that point to the therapist's own personality pattern rather than yours.
I understand your fears and many of us had adverse experiences with therapists, but there are very humane ones out there who can help you and who would want to help you. As for personality disorders, my guess would the entire population has some of those traits, and my guess is that at least half the mental health population has strong traits or could qualify for a personaity disorder. Instead, people are given other diagnoses. You just happen to be one who was not so lucky as those patients, at least in my view.
I hope you don't judge yourself on the actions of prior therapists, and instead, build up the courage to find one who is competent and able.
Take care,
violette
Posted by violette on July 27, 2010, at 22:36:43
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
I had recently come across a very inspiring article I was trying to relocate for you..but could not find it. :(
Anyway, you might have better luck finding a therapist through a referral from a non-profit schitophrenia advocacy organization or a child abuse trauma survivors/PTSD organization, if childhood issues contributed to your situation, many which you can Google and contact to get a referral in your area. You can find someone-hang in there.
See, it's not you Maya:
http://psychrights.org/research/Digest/Effective/APAMonV31No2.htm
http://spiritualrecoveries.blogspot.com/2007/03/dr-bertram-karon-schizophrenia-recovery.html
(((Hugs)))
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:32:59
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
> I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Was it a therapist or a psychiatrist that told her this?
We have to consider the very good possibility that whatever we were exposed to in our past played a part in triggering the development of our current illness. Therefore, we should always consider psychodynamic therapy as one of a few treatments that may help in not only our recovery but our personal growth. Therapy isn't easy and we have to be prepared to work hard and deal with some unpleasant emotions buried in our subconscious.
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:35:14
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by maya3 on July 25, 2010, at 13:50:55
> I am sorry the bipolar disorder wasn't diagnosed properly. How do you manage to keep it from interfering with the therapy process?
>
> Take care,
> Maya.Thank you. I'm sorry your illness was not diagnosed and treated properly sooner.
You take care too,
Morgan
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 10:02:54
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 9:32:59
"Therapy isn't easy and we have to be prepared to work hard and deal with some unpleasant emotions buried in our subconscious."
One problem I noticed is that women are retraumatized by the mental health system. This is especially true of sexual abuse survivors. I get a sense that Maya's fears could be related to being traumatized by mental health practioners, such as being accused of faking schitzophrenia, for one. That sounds very traumatic-and I know someone who had a similar experience-which added unnecessary trauma when she was having a breakdown.
Once someone makes a suicide attempt or threat, s/he is commonly branded Borderline by therapists and psychiatrists. I've spent alot of time at psychotherapy forums and have seen plenty of evidence that people with these circumstances have a hell of a time finding therapists. And for them, after being retraumatized through abadondment or intense countertransference reactions-it's difficult to trust a therapist. It's not that there's only evidence from these 'stories' of other patients-it's well recognized in the literature that patients given the B word are less likely to find a therapist willing to work with them.
I don't know if this is the case here, but it's important to recognize this. What it comes down to is that women are more likely to be sexually abused-about 25% of the female population experiences sexual abuse before age 18. This causes both similar and different effects than other types of abuse-it especially complicates trust issues. It's rare that men are deemed Borderline-it's women, many, but not all, who had been sexually abused by fathers, brothers, uncles....
And people with this symptomology-among those who need to most help-are more often rejected or abandoned by therapists and retraumatized by those experiences. Training is important, more emphasis on the effects of sexual abuse needs directed to therapists and practioners, well both research and training.
Women were once blamed for sexual abuse-for seducing the abuser. The stigma just goes around and round, now women get branded Borderline-code word for 'difficult patient'. Marsha Linehan has done work to improve this area, allowing patients with more complex issues to obtain effective treatment with her DBT method. She also did research that shows patients with BPD who are in more intense psychotherapy programs-save the health care system alot of money by staying out of hospitals. And it is true that insurance companies will often not pay for treatment of someone with an Axis II diagnosis such as Borderline. Which is totally ridiculous as some patients with BPD need the most help. Also-there is enough research that indicates a biological disposition occurs with people with BPD, as a temperment, like most all other mental disorders.
I don't think DBT is necessary for many patients with complex issues, however, and I agree with you that psychodynamic therapy has the capacity to heal more than other types of therapies.
I don't know if this is related to Maya's situation, but the fears she talked about, and her experience of being accused of "faking", reminded me of how many female patients who have attempted suicide and/or are given the BPD diagnosis are retraumatized by mental health professionals and therefore have a more difficult time trusting a therapist, which effects one's ability to work with a therapist.
Posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 10:37:58
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » morgan miller, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 10:02:54
Just wanted say that if anyone is in the Washington D.C. area, The Family Center is a great practice and the owner, Dr. Glory Fox Dierker, is a wonderful therapist for women. For a man, Gus Nava would be a great therapist at TFC. I would have faith in any therapist the works at TFC.
Posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 11:20:32
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » violette, posted by maya3 on July 27, 2010, at 14:34:15
Maya-I realized something I said could have been taken as discouragement...so I should clarify:
It did not take me 10 years to 'find' the right therapist-it took me only a couple of months. It took me 10 years to realize the former therapists were not the best for me. I knew relatively little about psychotherapy during that time and just stuck with whoever I was with until my insurance changed or I lost interest etc.
Please don't think I somehow implied it would take you-or anyone-10 years to find the right T!!!
Hugs!
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:26:23
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by Phillipa on July 27, 2010, at 20:06:00
Thank you Phillipa.
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:28:51
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by morgan miller on July 28, 2010, at 10:37:58
Thank you, Morgan, for your advice and support.
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 14:30:47
In reply to Re: sound familiar?, posted by chujoe on July 27, 2010, at 20:56:52
> I'll look up a couple of studies in the morning that demonstrate therapy can be very helpful in all forms of psychosis; if I'm remembering correctly, the therapy is usually a combination of psychodynamic and behavioral approaches. In any case, I'm with the other folks here Maya, you can definitely benefit from therapy and the therapist who told you otherwise was either profoundly misinformed or irresponsible. And that's a fact.
Thanks for your message. I'm beginning to see that now :)
Posted by maya3 on July 28, 2010, at 15:31:57
In reply to Re: sound familiar? » maya3, posted by violette on July 28, 2010, at 11:20:32
Violette, thank you for your encouragement and support. You are a very sensitive, kind and empathetic person. I found the links you sent me very helpful.The problem with finding a T is that where I live (not in the U.S.), the records tend to follow you around, so it is not easy to prevent automatic conclusions based on other Ts' assumptions or experience. I have even considered using a fictitious name.
It is true that Ts' personal issues can affect their judgement and willingness to accept certain patients for treatment. It is possible that some have perceived my behavor to be characteristic of borderline personality disorder. That could explain why one particular T constantly made insensitive and undermining remarks using an angry tone of voice. He dismissed my uneasiness as "manipulation" and "emotional blackmail". I began to see myself as he portrayed me and this eventually lead me to see suicide as my only option.
I did not experience childhood traumas of any kind. There are, however, periods of time I have repressed. I remember myself thinking as a little kid about how glad I was about having almost completely succeeded in blocking out certain periods. A while later I noticed no longer having access to them. It is clear to me that my genetic sensitivity and weaknesses were responsible for my being overwhelmed by things people usually take for granted. However, I suspect that this may have resulted in problems such as emotional blocks and flooding .
It is not possible to mention this to any T, as the expected reaction would be too much for me to handle. They see me as a psychotic, disturbed, manipulative and dysfunctonal person who should be concentrating on behavioral change only. I understand that, and they have a point. But constantly being unable to bring up issues that confuse and upset me due to knowing that the response would be unbearable is driving me crazy.I am glad to hear that you have finally found the right T. Your point was clear, by the way, and did not seem to imply that finding a T usually takes 10 years.
May I ask what you suffer from (only if you feel comfortable replying).
Hugs to you too!
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