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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by manic666 on March 30, 2010, at 5:28:27
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 1:16:26
the latter meds are depprisive meds// pipolar you need a bit more help.//you are run down thats for sure//do mind if i ask why you had 3 lymes test when your first was negative
Posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 12:25:27
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by manic666 on March 30, 2010, at 5:28:27
3 different doctors wanted to test me for lyme. I told 2 of them I had already been tested and they wanted to test me again anyway.
Also I have muscle twitches/spasms all over the place. I'm assuming this is from stress. I don't think I'm taking enough of any of the meds that could cause this.
Posted by herpills on March 30, 2010, at 13:52:10
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » manic666, posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 12:25:27
I agree seems like you are on low doses of things (which is good IMO)
Maybe you will feel better when you get that Zyprexa out of your system?
herpills
> 3 different doctors wanted to test me for lyme. I told 2 of them I had already been tested and they wanted to test me again anyway.
>
> Also I have muscle twitches/spasms all over the place. I'm assuming this is from stress. I don't think I'm taking enough of any of the meds that could cause this.
Posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 14:10:09
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » morganator, posted by herpills on March 30, 2010, at 13:52:10
Yeah it might be a bit difficult at first, but my psychiatrist and I are hoping that getting rid of Zyprexa will make a difference. 3 days ago I didn't take any. Then I felt the need to the next night. Then last night I didn't take any and I'm feeling o.k. today.
Also something to consider is how much Fluoxetine may or may not help me. I'm in week 11 right now. It's possible that I still have not yet fully felt the therapeutic effects of fluoxetine. After what my brain has been through these past 2 years I wouldn't be surprise if it take 15 or 16 weeks to really start feeling better.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 12:13:50
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 14:10:09
Hey Morgantor, have you been tested for Multiple Sclerosis? I was DXed 3 months ago, many of your symptoms match up. Much of MS mimics lymes disease as well.
Just a thought.
Brian
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2010, at 20:16:41
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 12:13:50
Brian how did they diagnose you? Presenting symptoms? Phillipa
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 21:33:47
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » qbsbrown, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2010, at 20:16:41
> Brian how did they diagnose you? Presenting symptoms? Phillipa
Went in with symptoms, Spinal tap was positive, and lesions in mri (although i had a second opinion on my mri, and he didn't thin the white matter was indicitive enough for MS, but still had the spinal tap results). But yes, i went in, telling them i was dying, i couldn't speak, pressured speech/slurred, i couldn't type simple words, blurred vision etc.
My benzo wd symptoms were outrageous, and i now wonder how much of it was MS. Electrical shocks, muscle deteriorations, diffficulty swallowing, tremors. So what was MS, and what was benzo wd? HHHMM dunno.
Brian
Posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2010, at 21:36:36
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 21:33:47
Brian I was also given an MRI and two spinal taps with chronic lymes disease didn't know they were also looking for MS till the neurologist told me. I wonder what google searches we could find on this? Phillipa
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 21:59:44
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » qbsbrown, posted by Phillipa on April 1, 2010, at 21:36:36
> Brian I was also given an MRI and two spinal taps with chronic lymes disease didn't know they were also looking for MS till the neurologist told me. I wonder what google searches we could find on this? Phillipa
Did it come up negative for MS?
I have read that tons of benzo wd symptoms mimic MS, and some have been fasely diagnosed. But the neurologist said that the new spinal tap testing that they have is about 97 percent accurate. He also said there were 2-3 lesions in the brain, also my second opinion didn't think it constituted MS lesions. who knows. I'll just keep injecting myself everyday:)
Posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 22:34:29
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 12:13:50
I've thought about MS. Had an MRI a year and a half ago but the neurologist didn't see anything. I also keep asking my primary care physician if she thinks it is possible that I have some autoimmune disorder and she doesn't think so. I think I'm going to see her and demand that every measure is taken to ensure that nothing like MS is going on with me.
Geeze sorry to hear about your diagnosis. What type of MS have you been diagnosed with?
Posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 22:41:46
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 21:59:44
If I do have MS, it is VERY mild and progressing slowly. I hope I don't but that would explain the periods of feeling absolutely horrible. I think what is going on with me is that I have soooo many injuries and have been under tons of stress and I've been through medication trial hell for the last two years. I just don't think my brain is producing the chemicals I need to feel normal consistently. I totally regret having three elective surgeries and being put under general anesthesia in a fairly short period of time. I wouldn't be surprised if my brain was damaged from the general anesthesia. I know my body is damaged from the surgeries.
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:43:57
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 22:34:29
Demand a spinal tap!!!! I did, that's where it came back positive.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:45:38
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 22:34:29
And keep in mind, if you did in fact have any MS lesions, they could be in your spine, they don't have to be in the brain.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:55:42
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 22:41:46
> If I do have MS, it is VERY mild and progressing slowly. I hope I don't but that would explain the periods of feeling absolutely horrible. I think what is going on with me is that I have soooo many injuries and have been under tons of stress and I've been through medication trial hell for the last two years. I just don't think my brain is producing the chemicals I need to feel normal consistently. I totally regret having three elective surgeries and being put under general anesthesia in a fairly short period of time. I wouldn't be surprised if my brain was damaged from the general anesthesia. I know my body is damaged from the surgeries.
If you don't mind me asking, what were the elective surgeries for?
I recently had 6 ECT sessions, for which yes, they do put you under for a few minutes, but I don't regret that, or think that it did any comproble damage than what swallowing tons of psychiatric medications over the past few years have done to me.
Brian
Posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 23:50:19
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:55:42
Hey Brian,
I had some knee and hip issues and had a bilateral knee scope and two separate hip scopes. I also had my carpal tunnel released. I regret having most of these done for several reasons.
Thanks for the spinal tap suggestion, I think I will do that.
Morgan
Posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:55:42
Brian, How did ECT work out for you and why did you have it?
Posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 14:05:35
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by qbsbrown on April 1, 2010, at 22:55:42
Brian, I don't have any issues with muscle loss-weakness, rigidity, soreness, but no muscle loss. Does this eliminate the possibility of MS?
One thing that is most disturbing is when I try to contract my muscles sometimes, especially in my legs, and they simply do not respond in a healthy normal way. It often keeps me from wanting to go to the gym, which had been something I did religiously for years.
Posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 17:29:03
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » qbsbrown, posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 14:05:35
I also feel numbing and tingling sensations throughout my face. Is this a common symptom of MS?
Posted by bleauberry on April 2, 2010, at 18:37:35
In reply to Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on March 29, 2010, at 22:48:10
Well, I can't help much but did want to take a minute to shed some light on the lyme western blot approach.
Most chronic lyme sufferers had symptoms are stories similar to yours, the negative test results were common.
There is much to learn about lyme. Much we don't know. The western blot was NEVER intended for diagnosis. It was intended for general surveillance of regional outbreaks. Some error in there won't hide an outbreak. The test has flaws and is not perfect. The organism is deceptive and smart at hiding from both tests and your own immune system.
There is only one lab in the USA that specializes in accurate testing western blot lyme. You probably did not use that lab.
Most people were diagnosed, despite all the negative tests and years of needless suffering, on clinical examination, not labs...the symptoms were consistent with lyme and there was history of tick exposure. Many of them do not recall ever being bitten by a tick and never had the famous rash.
They had a couple things in common. They had viscious Herx reactions to antibiotics. They got better after the Herxs passed. It was indeed Borellia (Lyme).
The co-conspirators of lyme are just as bad, and hardly ever considered. Bartonella, Babesia, and a couple others. They are worse than the primary Borellia suspect, but not looked for in the common western blot usually.
Even plain jane Candida is horrid. Causes every psych and physical symptom you can think of. No way to test for it. As with lyme, the only definitive test is to blindly try an anti-fungal protocol and see what happens. The reaction is the diagnosis. Most docs don't accept yeast/fungus as an issue, unless there is an obvious diaper rash, vaginal infection, or thrush tongue. I see that as arrogant human negligence, humans routinely assuming they know more than they do. If you get a Herx on Diflucan, you got yeast in your system, plain and simple, and it is definitely impacting your nervous system with toxins as powerful as manmade.
With lyme, same thing. The true definitive test is a sampling of a few select antibiotics to see what happens. The reaction, or pattern of reaction, tells a story that no lab report can.
I have no idea what your symptoms come from. No clue if it is lyme or any other hidden thing. I just wanted to expand on your comments on the western blot, because within your comments are the identical falsehoods shared in the histories of those who have recovered from lyme that tested negative.
I am not trained to do physical examination. Lyme symptoms can affect any part of the body and basically can imitate any disease. Thus its nickname "The Great Imitator". But there are some general trends seen. Your symptoms fit those trends. The way it affects your muscles and psychiatry and other weird things, all common stories of lyme.
Even people definitively diagnosed with MS have been cured with anti-lyme treatments, and seen their supposed MS brain lesions clear up in the process.
I'm not going any particular direction with this discussion, just trying to point out that there is a lot more here to be aware of.
On a more comforting side, the drugs used to help minimize the symptoms of lyme are the very same drugs used in psychiatry. They won't cure anything, but the right ones can at least make life more functionable and slow down the progress of the symptoms.
So for symptom control, the psych toolbox is the right place to look. To end the symptoms probably requires things outside of the psychiatry toolbox.
Until you have tried Doxycyline, Flagyl, Diflucan, and Wormwood, you really have no clue if you have lyme or candida or babesia or bartonella or all of them. The above substances cover them all well enough to tell a story whether a hunch is correct or not. The symptoms you have indicate a good reason to at least have a hunch. But the absolute worst thing you can do is rely on a lab test to make a definitive decision. That is the one single greatest thing most likely to prevent you from making headway.
> I am so sick of dealing with this. I've been tested for lyme 3 time using western blot. I've been tested for rheumatoid arthritis. Both tests came back negative. I've had a physical a few times in the last few years, everything checks out o.k.
>
> I'm bipolar and I'm on these medications:
>
> Lithium 300mg
> Depakote 500mg
> Fluoxetine 80mg
> Zyprexa 2.5mg-weening off
>
> I have been experiencing high anxiety, fatigue, brain fog, muscle weakness and stiffness, and depression.
>
> Does anyone have any suggestions as to what I might be able to do as far as medications go to improve the way I feel? Obviously the days of taking 100mg Zoloft and a few grams of fish oil and feeling good are over.
Posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 18:58:45
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by bleauberry on April 2, 2010, at 18:37:35
Thanks for the informative response Bleauberry.
Is it possible to have some good times when you feel pretty good even when you have a Candida or Lyme issue? I just have so many injuries and such bad anxiety and have been on so many medications, it really is hard to tell what is going on here. I think I need to go see my primary care physician and have a conversation with her. She really is a very good doctor and came highly recommended. She is very smart and thorough. But I realize that even the smartest of doctors can overlook and miss things.
I did have a Lyme test where my doctor sent it away to a specific lab, I wonder if it was the same lab you are speaking of.
So, even if I had a negative result after having my blood sent to the lab that you speak of, it is possible that I may still have Lyme?
Is there a specific way of testing for Candida?
Posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 20:09:49
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by bleauberry on April 2, 2010, at 18:37:35
Can you have Lyme for a long time without suffering from any noticeable symptoms? Could a period of trauma/stress awaken previously dormant disease like Lyme? Is this possible.
Posted by Phillipa on April 2, 2010, at 20:23:31
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » bleauberry, posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 20:09:49
Yes as that is what happened to me. Spinal taps negative for even old lymes and MS also MRI no evidence of either. But IGG remains elevated. I'm currently on doxycyclline again. Been on others also no herx never had one. As the infection control doc said it's like being shot with a bullet the bullet exits and your're left with the damage to repair. In my case loss of taste and smell and anxiety and fears. I hate to jinx myself but been on the doxy about 10 and seemed taste a bit and smell and back pain less. Cross fingers and toes. What's that med Brian? Can't seem to find it? Love Phillipa
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 21:33:16
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 23:51:16
> Brian, How did ECT work out for you and why did you have it?
ECT has been the only thing that's helped alliviate some of the psychotic/schizo phenomenea that i've been experiencing since my benzo cold turkey and MS diagnosis.
I'm desperately trying to find a way to get more done, but i do not have health insurance,, so i need to come up with about 3k for 6 more sessions.
I haven't been able to work, and haven't found any family that can help.Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 21:35:44
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression, posted by morganator on April 1, 2010, at 23:50:19
i'm sorry to hear of the health issues and surgeries. Such a pain.
Yes, demand a spinal tap to rule things out.
Brian
Posted by qbsbrown on April 2, 2010, at 21:39:54
In reply to Re: Anxiety/Fatigue/Muscle Stiffness/Depression » qbsbrown, posted by morganator on April 2, 2010, at 14:05:35
> Brian, I don't have any issues with muscle loss-weakness, rigidity, soreness, but no muscle loss. Does this eliminate the possibility of MS?
>
> One thing that is most disturbing is when I try to contract my muscles sometimes, especially in my legs, and they simply do not respond in a healthy normal way. It often keeps me from wanting to go to the gym, which had been something I did religiously for years.That wouldn't rule out anything. MS symptoms have an ENORMOUS range. Anytyhing that attacks your CNS, and having issues with your spine and brain could create anything. Very rare to find MS patients that have the same symptoms
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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