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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by manic666 on March 28, 2010, at 14:21:30
this is my qeustion ,not about me just a general understanding//now to me its kinda hard to take in//take my babble buddy phil//1 big dose of mania in his life an he is told bipolar//i mean he hasnt had another since ,but they put you on bipolar meds,an spend most the time in depression,//what happend to the manic bit where you have fun a fly the universe//.the people in hospital i see are there to stop the best bit an hate the shrinks for bringing them down//i just dont understand 1 manic bit an your bipolar ,how do they no, the meds never seem to level anyone off , just make you miserable// so tell me what would happen if you stopped meds.//because as i see it now without explaining// manics an lows look better than low %90 of the time, //plus no weight probs,// the question is i dont get how 1 manic mania ,can say you are bipolar for life.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 14:59:39
In reply to bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 28, 2010, at 14:21:30
> this is my qeustion ,not about me just a general understanding//now to me its kinda hard to take in//take my babble buddy phil//1 big dose of mania in his life an he is told bipolar//i mean he hasnt had another since ,but they put you on bipolar meds,an spend most the time in depression,//what happend to the manic bit where you have fun a fly the universe//.the people in hospital i see are there to stop the best bit an hate the shrinks for bringing them down//i just dont understand 1 manic bit an your bipolar ,how do they no, the meds never seem to level anyone off , just make you miserable// so tell me what would happen if you stopped meds.//because as i see it now without explaining// manics an lows look better than low %90 of the time, //plus no weight probs,// the question is i dont get how 1 manic mania ,can say you are bipolar for life.
Even after a single manic episode, people with bipolar disorder tend to react differently to antidepressants (which often end up causing irritability, agitation and rapid changes in mood rather than relieving depression). Because of this, it's always important to bear in mind a person's history of mania when considering future treatment. The risk of having another manic episode never goes away.
Posted by morganator on March 28, 2010, at 15:53:10
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand » manic666, posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 14:59:39
I agree that the risk of a manic episod is always there, but I think a manic episode, especially the early ones, can ALWAYS be avoided.
Manic episodes have to be treated because they almost always lead to behaviors/thought processes that are destructive to the person's life experiencing them and the people involved in that person's life. I agree that it is preferable to be somewhat on the manic side as opposed to being miserably depressed. I think if someone can find a state of controlled hypomania, while staying in touch with reality and staying grounded, this would be ideal for many. Unfortunately, this is a very difficult place to find.
As far as being brought down from mania and feeling depressed after, I think this is a necessary part of the healing process, similar to how one often gets depressed in the psychodynamic therapeutic process before they get better. Coming down from mania in coming back to reality. Reality is necessary for us to live productive, healthy, and prosperous lives. Some of us bipolars spent so much time escaping reality, when we come down and have to face reality, we are often left feeling miserable. This is especially the case when we realize that during that time of escape we harmed ourselves and harmed others.
Posted by morganator on March 28, 2010, at 15:55:53
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand » ed_uk2010, posted by morganator on March 28, 2010, at 15:53:10
All that said, I am in favor of giving bipolar patients antidepressant treatment as long as it doesn't send them into a state of unproductive mania or agitated mania. I believe we have the right to FEEL GOOD. This approach of just giving bipolars antipsychotics and anti-epileptics just isn't cutting it IMO.
Posted by ed_uk2010 on March 28, 2010, at 17:21:53
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand » ed_uk2010, posted by morganator on March 28, 2010, at 15:53:10
> I agree that the risk of a manic episod is always there, but I think a manic episode, especially the early ones, can ALWAYS be avoided.
>
> Manic episodes have to be treated because they almost always lead to behaviors/thought processes that are destructive to the person's life experiencing them and the people involved in that person's life. I agree that it is preferable to be somewhat on the manic side as opposed to being miserably depressed. I think if someone can find a state of controlled hypomania, while staying in touch with reality and staying grounded, this would be ideal for many. Unfortunately, this is a very difficult place to find.
>
> As far as being brought down from mania and feeling depressed after, I think this is a necessary part of the healing process, similar to how one often gets depressed in the psychodynamic therapeutic process before they get better. Coming down from mania in coming back to reality. Reality is necessary for us to live productive, healthy, and prosperous lives. Some of us bipolars spent so much time escaping reality, when we come down and have to face reality, we are often left feeling miserable. This is especially the case when we realize that during that time of escape we harmed ourselves and harmed others.Great post. That makes a lot of sense.
Posted by Roslynn on March 28, 2010, at 18:36:53
In reply to bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 28, 2010, at 14:21:30
I know what you all mean...if I could just reach an average mood...don't even need to be happy...just steady and predictable.
Posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2010, at 19:05:28
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by Roslynn on March 28, 2010, at 18:36:53
I witnessed for years what mania can do to a person. My ex-father-in-law was bipolar and each spring he would quit his meds and ride all over the town on a bike, get thin, spend horrible amounts of money, accuse people family of affairs and such that weren't true. Then he would disappear for a few weeks and call home to his wife and come home and crash severly for months. When on his meds he was so productive and earned a fortune. His first episode was in the military during world war II and he didn't have another til his 50's. So wasn't on any meds all those years. He's now deceased. Phillipa
Posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 29, 2010, at 2:33:06
In reply to bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 28, 2010, at 14:21:30
I see what you are saying, Manic, I agree that we all can have a "manic"like episode and I agree that these individuals should not be thrown on anti convulsants or meds like lithium with out seeing a lot more signs of the disorder. On the other hand, I think that some individuals experience manic episodes differently and may not realize that their behavior was considered manic until the doctor classified it that way or they did the research and realized, sh*t this might be me. This was my case.
I was diagnosed as bipolar eight years ago but thought to h*ll with that! Until recently it got out of hand. I always thought I just had a bad temper, a REALLY bad temper but turns out that my actions were not normal. When I finally did have the traditional kick butt at work, spend money,loose weight, etc. "manic" episode followed by severe depression, it occured to me that all of those fits of rage I had were my manic episodes. Instead of get hyper, I got vicious. I threw things, broke things, intimidated people, and I am only 4' 10". Yet I remember the whole darn high school I attended feared me, even the football star. Yes, I did take on the football quarterback when I was a freshman. I still laugh about that LOL!
Anyways, I am just saying that there are many types of bipolar disorder and manic episodes. There are hypomanic, rapid cycling, BP II, etc. Therefore, an individual should really think about their behavior all of their life and discuss those questionable acts with their Pdoc to determine what is really going on.
Posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 4:15:38
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by Phillipa on March 28, 2010, at 19:05:28
when i used to seek help for depression..i would tell the shrink i experience anxierty that turned to mania //i always have done crazy things so i asumed i was in a wacky than anyone else period//would have millions of ideas rattleing in my head//if i fixed on a record i liked i would make tapes for every one as if this was the thing to hear,//i have bought new cars an wanted to sell them the week after//i had 2 kids with girls before 21 like sex freak,i would do things that were dangerouse an think nothing of it//mixed in with that i went through shoplifting for a buzz//then i had OCD , like things had to be in the right place ,an faceing he right way.// my shrink said come an see me when your like that//i never did as i thought that cool im buzzing//but after a depressive attack i always went ia little crazy with releaf//you never no when the next one commeing sort of thing.so i was never put as bipolar ,just a mad guy that gets depression,///the english shrinks dont no sh*t an are mostly locom after the money ,you never get to no one.//.so he or she lables you on what they see on the day, i see mine no every 6 months ,why?????? who knows, he is a old fashioned plank.//i pick my own med to try an have had better luck than they ever did,,so i us the GP an i talked him into a tapper unknown in england an never with a srink//they make you wash out even if ssri to another ssri,///giving 4 months of unnesesery pain.//if i put on a white coat an saw the newbies in hospital i could see an treat them better,yes its that bad
Posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 29, 2010, at 6:14:50
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 4:15:38
The healthcare system is so different there than it is here. You have to go 6 months and you choose your own meds?! I heard of Docs that allow their patients to choose the meds but 6 months in between visits and you have to completely detox from one to the other for 4 months. That could make you have a harder time mentally as well. I understand the withdrawls but then your body has to re adjust again and again, ugh that sounds horrible. Sorry to hear that. Check your email I sent you a message.
Posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 6:49:35
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 29, 2010, at 6:14:50
the shrink is now six months check, but iS on an open appiontment anytime if i go nuts//i ask if i can use a certain med an if its on his nhs books he will let me try.//.i ask people on babble what med an they suggest meds an i tell the shrink.//he dont do it for every one ,he knows i no a little about my condition. i can change me meds at the GP as well so long as i keep in the same group say ssri,s.the doc lets me tapper the shrink dont,i go to the gp as the hospital gives me the creeps. but every sixmonths i go for a talk. my bloodwork an the rest are done at the GP
Posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 29, 2010, at 7:35:02
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 6:49:35
Ok that is better. It seems like you know a thing or two about meds...now if I were to do that, I would be setting myself up for problems, Since you are so familiar with meds, you should join another forum on www.crazymeds.us that is a forum strictly about medicine. I believe you locate the crazy meds talk version 9.0 on the left hand side. That site is how I learned about this one as I mentioned earlier, they are strictly med talk but I think that you can be very helpful to other individuals.Check ur email I sent u a long one, need to chat.
Posted by linkadge on March 30, 2010, at 18:26:11
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by Roslynn on March 28, 2010, at 18:36:53
I probably experience hypomania from time to time. I don't really notice it, I am just able to work 16 hour days without noticing a thing.
The only problem is that when I start to feel what I would consider normal (probably what others would consider hypomania), I get insomnia.
I think the insomnia works to slow me down the next day, but it sets up a horrible cycle of feeling out of control.
When I do sleep, the rebound makes me feel miserable, suicidal and totally out of control of my life.
As soon as I start to feel the sense of control, I get the insomnia back.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on March 30, 2010, at 18:31:59
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 29, 2010, at 2:33:06
>When I finally did have the traditional kick >butt at work, spend money,loose weight, >etc. "manic" episode followed by severe >depression, it occured to me that all of those >fits of rage I had were my manic episodes.
Hmm. Its funny, I never through of the "get thin" thing as being a symptom of mania. Granted, when I am feeling good, I run miles a day (at 130 pounds). I also feel that I do kick butt at work (or school). This usually excalates to feelings of paranoia about teachers or authorities watching me. I also do have fits of rage.....but no wild spending sprees.....ever. In fact, when I start to feel better I become an extreme miser.
Linkadge
Posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 30, 2010, at 22:00:13
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by linkadge on March 30, 2010, at 18:31:59
The reason I lose weight is because I stop taking my meds when I am in a manic state. I have to live on phentermine because of my narcolepsy so when I don't take my bipolar meds, I lose weight without even trying. Now if I were to weigh 130, I would be so happy but that is just not my case. I hold my weight well from what I've been told but I would rather love my body than have others like it. You are lucky that you dont spend money because I have so much debt from this. I just bought a brand new truck and I love it but the thought of paying for it scares the hell out of me.I feel like I am starting to go into a manic state again now that I see the symptoms and although I would love to stop my meds so I can stay this way, I know that it is short lived and the aggression gets worst everytime.
Posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 23:20:28
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 30, 2010, at 22:00:13
> The reason I lose weight is because I stop taking my meds when I am in a manic state. I have to live on phentermine because of my narcolepsy so when I don't take my bipolar meds, I lose weight without even trying. Now if I were to weigh 130, I would be so happy but that is just not my case. I hold my weight well from what I've been told but I would rather love my body than have others like it. You are lucky that you dont spend money because I have so much debt from this. I just bought a brand new truck and I love it but the thought of paying for it scares the hell out of me.I feel like I am starting to go into a manic state again now that I see the symptoms and although I would love to stop my meds so I can stay this way, I know that it is short lived and the aggression gets worst everytime.
Do you mind my asking what meds you are on?
Posted by gorgeouslygrim on March 31, 2010, at 0:40:37
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by morganator on March 30, 2010, at 23:20:28
Of course I do not mind you asking me. That is why I joined this forum with all of these helpful understanding individuals. I was on Symbyax and other SSRI's, which always cause me to gain weight. The Symbyax was brutal and I gained 20 LBS in 3 weeks! It was unfortunate because it did work but then after the 3 weeks and 20 LBS that I worked so hard to lose weeks before, the medicine stopped working.
I just meet a Pdoc for the first time and we discussed the options for mood stabilizers like Lithium, tegretol xr, etc. He chose the Tegretol because I told him that I can not gain too much weight. I get super depressed when I gain weight which makes the meds pointless in my opinion. Any suggestions for mood stabilizers/anti convulsants that work for bipolar II and have the least amount of weight gain?
As for Phentermine, its a weight loss aid but it gives me a nice perk to combat the narcolepsy.
Unfortunately, I was able to gain that weight ON the phentermine which makes me wonder how much I would have gained had I not been on the diet pills. Phentermine is a perscribed med just in case you werent aware so for me, I am not willing to gain so much weight, I know that sounds vain but I have a bad back and a small frame. I am only 4 foot 10 inches, although I hold my weight well,it hurts my body with each few pounds gained.I also started Nuvigil for the narcolepsy but that didnt help with drowsiness or weight loss and I am going to see my neurologist tomorrow.
Posted by qbsbrown on March 31, 2010, at 12:18:14
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 6:49:35
Manic, have you heard of the medication Provigil? It's actually used for excess sleepiness and narcolepsy, and off label for adhd, BUT, is beginning to show, in some cases GREAT effect for bipolar depression, w/o causing the mania, depression, irritability, that all of the other crap antidepressants they try to give you. It is greatly worth a shot.
I don't know if I can post this, but this site is hands down the most informative out there that there is on bipolarity, and the treatment for it, http://psycheducation.org/
Also look GREATLY into the foremost leading bipolar expert Gary Sachs who runs the Bipolar Clinic and Research Program at Harvard.
80 percent of bipolar knowledgable "experts" out there would not give a bipolar an antidepressant.
And once again, bipolar is the new "fad" DX of the latest generation. Is there much validity to it? i don't thinks so. Just as calories used to be bad, then it was fat, then it was carbs etc etc, it will always change.
Until there are any "proven" test out there, say through blood test etc, it is tough to say that mental illness is legitimate thing. They've been trying to find or prove "chemical imbalances" over the past 30 years, with no success.
I'm sure this will stir the pot, but I do believe that psychiatry has ruined just as many lives as it may have helped. And I might even be a hyoprite, and have to used some drugs, albeit the best time of my life was when i was drug free.
I do know many persons who seem to need their meds, and respond well to them, and saves their live, and i am not against that, because i had a drug save my life before.
But my first manic episode was induced by an antidepressant. It was benzo wihdrawal that got me diagnosed OCD, and it was the effects of antidepressants that got me labeled bipolar. It's a very pseudoscience, and you are very right in your questioning.
i will say that taking an antidepressant for "panic disorder" when i was in college "saved" my life, when in retrospect, psychotherapy probably would have been the best. I do believe that psychiatric drugs have for the most part ruined my life over the past 7 years, and that is my fault for taking that first benzo,,,,...but who wouldn't when you are experiencing derealization 24/7.
If you like your highs, and you aren't hurting anyone, and not spending money, and endandering people including yourself, that's your choice.
Or you can be doped up on depakote and zyprexa to slow you down into a zombie with no cognitive function.
It's a tough call.
Sorry for my soap box today.
Brian
Posted by manic666 on March 31, 2010, at 13:25:39
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by qbsbrown on March 31, 2010, at 12:18:14
thats a good post, thats the way i look at it //i mean at first anxiety was a main prob for me. when young i developed illnesses through anxierty //like excema an adanoid probs,put down later in life to anxierty , when working developed phobias like travel an a few more//put on ativan on a take as need basis, i mean i needed 24.7//then they wanted me on AD,S as i would have took as many ativan as they gave me,an in those days it was a lot.//but the court case came out with the addicts wanting answers for there addiction/// thats when i did the shop lifting sh*t an the ocd //curred by the way with real prozac, //but my anxierty would move to a sort of mania were i would be happy an crazy an do stupid things that im known for to this day,//ADS give you a break from it for a while at a price,ie/ getting fat for 1, with no help from food//killing your creative skills ect ect//but its impossible to live in the anxierty world ,you burn out an get depressed.so you take AD,S an live the twilight zone//you handle it better young but you have to get hammered on bozze,,i could work all week at breakneck speed //but i would have to completly nuke myself at the weekend to try to relax an recharge //
Posted by linkadge on April 2, 2010, at 20:20:28
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 31, 2010, at 13:25:39
Seems like we're both just looking for something to give..............CONTROL!!.
Linkadge
Posted by manic666 on April 3, 2010, at 3:59:19
In reply to Re: bipolar, i dont understand, posted by manic666 on March 29, 2010, at 4:15:38
your right link my friend//but ed uk , when you say you have on bout of mainia an bang your on the bipola meds ,because there is always that risk of another///i may or may not have had a few manic periods certainly rememdered by many except me// so i am of the way of thinking ,wrong of course///f+++ the disabilatating meds an wait to see if there is a next time ,an if they come after long intavals ,so be it, if short intervals stick with the meds/// is what your saying your depression is a lot worse without the meds,thats what i saw in hospital people sectioned to nuke the high manias//explain a bit more please i an thick/
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