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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 24 of 24. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by manic666 on February 4, 2010, at 13:59:40
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White fillings can only be provided on the NHS in front teeth and on the non-biting ... The benefits and risks of dental amalgam: current findings reviewed. ...
www2.nphs.wales.nhs.uk:8080/...nsf/($All)/.../DENTALAMALGAM.doc?... - sorry about the link ,you have to log in. Ok read on ,im just trying to save you pain an anxierty. for every one of you who have your fillings removed ,20,000 have them put in. if you read the link , its a real one by a hospital trust not a couple of internet sites , by people who screw you for pleasure,the real fact,s are there, an why they still use amalgam,you can do more harm haveing them out than leaveing well alone.it says, the minimum of toxin,s desolve in your body , think if you drilled them out , an you thought they dont, an toxin,s stay in an poison your brain. you have just drilled a smashed into fragments load,s of amalgam that would make there way in your root canal an bloodstream far more quicker than being a lifetime of left alone.not true but the very thing your scared of,An the suppliments your takeing for no reason other than thinking your dieing of mercury posioning are doing you more harm for nothing, let me tell you why i feel strongly about these subjects that appear on babble an why i was trigered, nothing to do with filling,s but it did involve teeth,Have you noticed in nevouse an anxiery you always chew on gum or in my case tooth pick,s, football player,s an there boss,s chew like crazy on the side line.because of nerves.Me i was haveing pain an numbness in all my wisdom teeth that drove me to have them removed.still suffering the same symtoms i was Xrayed to see if fragments had been left.they saw nothing but i made them open my gums to explore , i finished with a mouth full of stitch,s an swelling so bad i felt like dying.Now this is what i an trying to say there was nothing wrong with me teeth i was suffering from NEURALIGIA a well nown nevouse complaint. A 6 week large benzo dose an an understanding its not real an i came to except it, i still chew on tooth pick,s an chew gum , but its all to do with my anxierty illness, we are depressives an anxierty sufferes we will always have things that screw us up as if there real . any doc knows in our illness,we can have an feel the symtoms of a real illness even though we have nothing of the kind, its are damaged head,s that play tricks,so before you shell out thousands of dollars on pain an controversy read the link , then make your mind up. i come on babble to help people as i myself have been helped, an the way it was done was to be told how to understand my mental illness,i dont have issuies with people only there view,s an i love people to argue with me ,that not a problem .The objective is to stop people from feeling lost an helpless. ps , spelling sh*t sorry MANIC
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 14:32:13
In reply to The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 4, 2010, at 13:59:40
I have ceramic crowns removed mercury years ago per my dentist at the time. Just two tiny ones left. Phillipa
Posted by bleauberry on February 4, 2010, at 19:22:15
In reply to The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 4, 2010, at 13:59:40
Anyone wanting to form an opinion on the risks of amalgams needs to gather information from many sources. Any single source is unreliable. Furthermore, when gathering information, look for some that make the case for amalgams being bad, and look for ones that make the case amalgams are riskless. This is not a well-researched topic except by very few people, and thus debates and "cherrypicked" opinions form on both sides.
Here are some interesting facts though. I'm not going to give any opinions of my own.
You decide.
1. Mercury is the 2nd most toxic substance on the planet to the nervous system. Amalgams are 50% mercury.
2. Mercury vapor can be seen rising from amalgams, especially when aggravated by chewing.
3. Mercury can be measured in the dentist's office pre-chewing gum and post-chewing gum to compare. The differences are significant. There is mercury in the saliva and the blood of the person with amalgams, but none in the saliva of the person without amalgams.
4. When amalgams are removed, where does the debris go? In the trashcan? No. By law it goes in special toxic waste containers to toxic waste dumps. But it's ok to be in your mouth.
5. When amalgams are removed without special safety procedures, the patient can suffer a heavy mercury exposure. With proper procedures, exposure is very minimal. Those procedures include rubber throat dam, oxygen tube for breathing, activated charcoal in the mouth and under the tongue, heavy suction at the site of the drill, gas masks for everyone in the room, fresh air circulation for the room, negative ion generators in the room.
6. Some people get extremely ill from chronic low level amalgam mercury accumulation. It can mimic any disease in the book because it impacts every function of the body.
7.Other people however can go their entire lives with amalgams and not have any symptoms. Theories are that genetics and the integrity of the detox systems play a large role in whether someone gets ill or not.
8. There are forums on Yahoo with groups of patients who deal specifically with amalgam removal and chelation, for real world real person experiences of the good, the bad, and the ugly.
9. The size of the amalgams...how much metal is there...and their locations, make a difference.
Anyone interested in the amalgam topic really should read the book Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler. Obviously he makes a very scientific case backed up by truckloads of data on how devastating amalgams can be to just about every function in the body. He himself was a patient.
But what is really special is that he also gives all the arguments of those say amalgams are ok, their reasoning, their data, their history...and then with factual science proves whether these are right or wrong. So whether someone is on the side of amalgam danger, or the opposite side of amalgam hoax, or stuck in the middle and not sure, Amalgam Illness presents just about all the data and debates there are on the planet for a thorough picture of the entire topic from every angle.
It is not unusual to see psychiatric symptoms decrease post-amalgam removal. Psychiatric symptoms usually disappear completely when chelation has gotten all the mercury out of the brain. That is a hard battle taking a couple years. But of course, if someone didn't spend time reading what real patients experienced in their own words, well, they wouldn't know that any of this actually happens. They would only know whatever their doctor or their neighbor or their magazine article tells them.
What opinions are gathered at a hospital in Wales are a very small fragment of a much bigger more complex picture.
Posted by Phillipa on February 4, 2010, at 21:21:34
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by bleauberry on February 4, 2010, at 19:22:15
BB and interesting that if a glass old type mercury thermometer is broken in the hospital the toxic wasted disposal team is sent in in special protective clothing to remove the mercury. Phillipa
Posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 0:53:08
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by bleauberry on February 4, 2010, at 19:22:15
Do you have any amalgam carries? Have you had any removed?
Posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 7:23:58
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM » bleauberry, posted by conundrum on February 5, 2010, at 0:53:08
of course i have , im 62 an apart from the wisdom teeth i mentioned have all my own teeth, with there fair share of amalgam fillings, i admit they dont look fantastic in your mouth,but the cosmetic,s look is long gone for me,my wife had a amalam filling last month.the people in england that have them out are not because of danger,s but for apperance white filling look a lot better but you pay a massive premium for them.the young high flyer,s want a full set of white teeth, plus botox an colageen lips, liposuction. fake t*ts , you see you could go on forever. all my dental work is free as im over sixty.so in therory i could have all my fillings out an replaced for nothing if stateing i am a mental paitent an it effects ny mental heath, but it dont, so why do i want to put myself through that sh*t for nothing, as i say if it was a problem i would be ,more worried about the drilling out the amalgam straight into my blood stream .an bleauberry i read all you have wrote on the suject when i first came to babble an its still the same, put it in the archives an if people want to know they can look it up under obsession,s
i have read what i want to no on a world wide medical heath sheet, ocours i could carry on an on till i found somethng i dont want to read on a independant page. but i dont have masochistic tendensy,just a plane old mental illness., you reconised you triggered me on a post you wrote while i was on a ban telling babblers of your distaste for me ,thanks for the oppology i did not get for addmiting you could have trigered me. i dont talk about you behind your back as im not interested . i take about your threads, an you take it pesonal. dont repley to mine an i wont yours simple
Posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 7:38:02
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 7:23:58
phillipa you obviously didnt read the link.it said the most exposure to mercury in the dentist is the dentist an the assistant.and they do it 40 times a day, so in therory there all died 20 years ago.
Posted by Brainbeard on February 6, 2010, at 7:41:58
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 5, 2010, at 7:38:02
> phillipa you obviously didnt read the link.it said the most exposure to mercury in the dentist is the dentist an the assistant.and they do it 40 times a day, so in therory there all died 20 years ago.
The toxic burden of amalgam fillings probably won't cause death in a direct manner, although mercury is debatably carcinogenic. Nobody said amalgam fillings kill you. Also, the fact that dental personnel doesn't die by the dozens doesn't mean there isn't a problem. If it doesn't kill you, it CAN hurt you.For one thing, female dental assistants who work with amalgam are significantly less fertile than controls (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127897/).
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 8:11:26
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by Brainbeard on February 6, 2010, at 7:41:58
Its realistic and safe to stop using amalgam fillings but is it safe or realistic to have them removed? I would be scared of the exposure from the removal of them. Surely drilling them out creates more vapour and debris than chewing your food.
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 10:00:57
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by Brainbeard on February 6, 2010, at 7:41:58
>
> The toxic burden of amalgam fillings probably won't cause death in a direct manner, although mercury is debatably carcinogenic. Nobody said amalgam fillings kill you. Also, the fact that dental personnel doesn't die by the dozens doesn't mean there isn't a problem. If it doesn't kill you, it CAN hurt you.
>Amalgams won't kill someone as in a bullet or a heart attack. It is more like a slow premature death plagued with various illnesses significantly more than what would be seen in a healthy nontoxic individual.
After the autopsy, it will eventually go down in history as "heart disease", "cancer", "longstanding battle with illness", and such.
The book Amalgam Illness by PHd Andrew Cutler is an incredible piece of literature, detailing exactly what mercury does in all the various parts of the body, the politics behind the acceptance of amalgams, and how to neutralize or reverse the damage. A lot of the book is written for medical professionals, but much of it is an easy read for laypeople as well. Anyone who wants to either argue for amalgams or against amalgams, is basically impotent at making any argument without studying this book.
> For one thing, female dental assistants who work with amalgam are significantly less fertile than controls (http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC1127897/).
>
>
>
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 10:13:22
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM » Brainbeard, posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 8:11:26
> Its realistic and safe to stop using amalgam fillings but is it safe or realistic to have them removed?
Yes, and yes. It is not safe or realistic to keep them in the mouth inches from the brain. The slow chronic leaching of low level mercury cannot be argued to be a healthy thing or a neutral thing.
Many States and many countries have already banned the use of amalgams.
>I would be scared of the exposure from the removal of them. Surely drilling them out creates more vapour and debris than chewing your food.
Exposure is very minimal when done by someone who knows the proper procedures (mouth dam, heavy duty suction, ventilated room, gas masks, activated charcoal, negative ion generators). The vapor, dust, and chunks are immediately swept into a high pressure suction tube. Any remnants that were missed are soaked into the activated charcoal in the mouth. There will always been some unintended exposure, but very minimal.
A one-time potential modest spike in mercury absorption is far less damaging than a continuous low level absorption that goes relentlessly 24 hours a day forever.
To newcomers on this topic, it understandably is a bit hard to grasp at first. Me for example, it took 2 years after my first mercury test showing highly elevated mercury before I finally admitted to myself this was for real. I was, as is very common, in a total state of denial and excuse-making.
Posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 12:54:50
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 10:00:57
you can study the bible but it dont mean you believe it.???????????????????i rest my case
Posted by janejane on February 6, 2010, at 13:20:29
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 12:54:50
Larry Hoover wrote some good really posts about amalgam that can be found by searching the archives. They were very well-documented with lots of pubmed cites. It really is hard to argue with all the scientific evidence.
Posted by Brainbeard on February 6, 2010, at 14:08:31
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM » conundrum, posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 10:13:22
I have a bunch of large amalgam fillings. I also had several amalgam fillings removed without any protective measures.
I would like to have the rest of them removed in a safe manner, but in the Netherlands where I live, there's practically noone who does it safely. I would have to travel abroad for that.
Ever since I know what I know now about amalgam, when an amalgam filling has to be removed, the only measures I take is washing my clothes afterwards and take a shower. Oh yeah, and I ask the dentist to use water, suck away the debris immediately and use the low speed drill when possible. That normally isn't possible. If I'd put charcoal under my tongue, they would sure think I was crazy. I AM crazy, as a matter of fact: all I know about amalgam and about endodontically treated teeth and NICO's only helps to fuel my anxiety and my neurosis. That makes it very complicated.
A rubber dam, by the way, is controversial in anti-amalgam circles: there is some evidence that it might lead to amalgam debris getting stuck in the jaw.
Amalgam fillings are probably not even the worst offenders when it comes to dental toxins. Root canal treated teeth may be far worse. I believe Dr. Meinig's point that root canal treeted teeth are practically impossible to seal off from bacterias that enter the tiny canals (tubula) that can't be filled and become anaerobic, meaning they mutate into bacterias that don't need oxygen; these anaerobic bacterias produce toxins that are worse than mustard gas. I believe it's true that the infections harboured by root canal treated teeth can lead to heart problems, cancer, arthritis and the like. Probably much more deadly than amalgam fillings, which I think lead to psychoneurological problems in the first place.
And then there are the NICO's - Neuralgia Inducing Cavitational Osteonecrosis. Area's of dead bone in the jaws, cavities in the jawbone, not visable on x-rays but detectable by ultrasonographic imaging, a technique only rarely available. These NICO's have been so called because they can cause facial pain, pain that doesn't seem to have any logical explanation. These jawbone cavities can be caused by any kind of trauma in the jaw where the blood flow is interrupted, i.e. root canal treatment, extraction, even local anaesthesia by itself.. These cavities can get infected in the same manner and with the same results as root canal treated teeth.
I'd like to get rid of both my amalgam fillings, and my root canal treated teeth (that have to be extracted along with cutting away part of the surrounding bone to avoid causing NICO's), and my NICO's, but it would cost me thousands of euro's that I don't have and I would have to travel abroad to get it done.
So right now, wether I like it or not, I'm stuck with the fillings and the root canal treated teeth and the NICO's.
Not everybody has the means to do much about it.
I cold stop drinking hot liquors and try to chew as little as possible, put all my food in a blender perhaps, rinse my teeth with tea tree oil instead of brushing them, avoid monitors and other electromagnetic fields (which stimulate mercury vapour release from amalgam fillings), but that's just not worth it for me. It would turn my life into an anxious hell.
I'm saving money to do something about the toxic burden in my mouth. But right now, I don't even have an income. I'm not sure if I'll ever get it done, because there are only a handful of people on the planet who can do it in a scientifically validated way, more or less (the rest are too much absorbed with the occult, which is not my kind of pie and which I'd avoid like the plague), so I may have to live with this burden until my death.
You can get old with amalgam fillings, that's for sure. And also with root canal treated teeth. My dad has a mouth full of amalgam. He's strong as a lion, but batshit crazy. My grandpa had several root canal treated teeth. He was healthy until in his eighties he began to have serious heart trouble, with heart stroke and all. The docs didn't think he would have lived today (which he does). By chance, if that's what you can call it, most of his root canal treated teeth had to be pulled. He hasn't had a stroke ever since.
I'm sure my mental problems have been greatly exacerbated by my loads of amalgam fillings and their replacement. In retrospect I can see that after every huge amalgam filling placed, my mental state further deteriorated. I also believe that the autistic natured mental problems I've been having since birth have at least in part been caused by the fact that my Mum also had huge amounts of amalgam fillings in her mouth when she was pregnant of me. The foetus is practically unprotected from mercury absorption. All my brothers and sisters also have mental disorders.
I'm glad my wife only has a few little amalgam fillings. I hope my daughter hasn't been affected as badly as I have. At least, now that amalgam has run out of favour with new dentistry, not because of its toxicity but because of its weaknesses as a dental material, I can be sure that my daughter will never have any amalgam fillings placed. That's a relief.
Who knows how much of the mental problems of our generation are due to mothers carrying many amalgam fillings in their mouth while pregnant.
To conclude this horribly long sermon, I'd like to say that the very fact that I have to put up with all this misery in my mouth, causing both mental and physical pain (chronic jaw pain, sometimes emanating towards my left eye and head) is one of the reasons for me to even be willing to use psychotropic medications.
Cheers. Have a glass of amalgam soda.
Posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 14:34:44
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by janejane on February 6, 2010, at 13:20:29
what were the results of those studies? You didn't say if they were for the use of amalgam fillings or against it.
Posted by janejane on February 6, 2010, at 15:10:21
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM » janejane, posted by conundrum on February 6, 2010, at 14:34:44
> what were the results of those studies? You didn't say if they were for the use of amalgam fillings or against it.
Against. You'll find them if you do a search for amalgam and also put "poster:Larry Hoover" in the search bar to find posts specifically by him. I'm sorry I'm too tired and lazy right now to wade through that stuff.
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 16:20:47
In reply to Re: The real truth about AMALGAM, posted by manic666 on February 6, 2010, at 12:54:50
> you can study the bible but it dont mean you believe it.???????????????????i rest my case
True. God gave every one free choice. A man's character and future is formed by choices they make today.
Posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 16:25:13
In reply to The Sobbing Enemy In My Mouth, posted by Brainbeard on February 6, 2010, at 14:08:31
Wow. I'm so sorry, Brainbeard, to hear your situation.
Hey, crazy or not, you can do a lot to reduce exposure during amalgam removal. The suction thing is the main thing. The suction should be right at the point of drilling. And the activated charcoal, yeah, bring lots of it. In the mouth, under the tongue.
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2010, at 21:46:41
In reply to Re: The Sobbing Enemy In My Mouth » Brainbeard, posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 16:25:13
Topic change did you know research also points to biophosphinates such as actonel, boniva, fosamax, reclast as causing Osteronecrosis of the Jaw? Phillipa
Posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 4:04:16
In reply to Re: The Sobbing Enemy In My Mouth, posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2010, at 21:46:41
phillipa your right there in no fun , an how the hell can there be,let me remind you still have 2 caps with murcury in, may as well have 10 same risk so the seem,s to say. Brainbeard, why have the rest out you have acording to peoples reserch of countless sh*t you already exposed yourself haveing the other filling out, so no matter how safe you have the rest, you will think of the one before,it is a double edged sword.this is answers to ligitimate qeustions i pointed out.dentist an assistant would be all dead from mercury piosoning as the mix it countless times a day, the assitant who mixes it usually without a mask,he should be dead on the floor the first week,answer its not like a bullet but a silent killer , lots of female an male dentist are impotent or sterile through useing murcury,now who in there right mind is going to work in a job that does that fantacy.a so called fact when your dead on the slab being disected for the cause of death , they will put natural causes through cancer or heart disiese but really its mercury but they carnt see it, they can see the 6 inch tumor but they miss the mercury.it constution i have smashed my way through asbestos houses , no mask in them days, used countless fiberglass insulastion bat,s in the cavatiy of new houses without a mask an watched the sunlight shone through a million particals im sucking in,im off to the dentist this week that is if he hasnt shot himself becase he carnt have kids.by the way i have four. all loaded in there teeth mercury should i tell them an let them become mentally ill or leave them to enjoy there young lives,i have a great chance of dieing through asbestotis, or fiber glass clinging to my lungs, or my meds killng my liver/////// aint life a bitch , i had a chat in the bar about this subject an all the guys opened there mouth to an aray of murcury .i do you no the answer was , SO whos round is it next,lnstantly forgotted, because the are not mentally ill an dont give a flying f***
Posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 4:06:39
In reply to Re: The Sobbing Enemy In My Mouth » Brainbeard, posted by bleauberry on February 6, 2010, at 16:25:13
Posted by Brainbeard on February 7, 2010, at 10:04:40
In reply to Re: The Sobbing Enemy In My Mouth, posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 4:04:16
Manic, how about some punctuation?
Being crazy, by the way, doesn't mean it's all in your head only in a figurative sense.
Posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 12:59:25
In reply to change this to the enemy in my head (nm), posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 4:06:39
sorry buddy but im dyslexic. an as thick as a brick. learned myself to read an write. but as you see not very well. no caps lock as i leave it on an then half capital letters , but street wise to perfection.stay safe
Posted by conundrum on February 7, 2010, at 13:26:24
In reply to Re: change this to the enemy in my head, posted by manic666 on February 7, 2010, at 12:59:25
I appreciate your posts and your straight forward manner. One thing that could help making your posts easier to read would be, putting two spaces after a period and breaking longer thoughts into paragraphs. When faced with a 20 line text with no spaces or breaks it makes for a difficult read and many may just skip reading altogether.
This is the end of the thread.
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