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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 11:47:42
putting all my hopes on Glycine ...
Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2009, at 12:04:37
In reply to putting all my hopes on Glycine ..., posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 11:47:42
Posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 12:09:34
In reply to don't put all your hopes in anything (nm), posted by linkadge on December 30, 2009, at 12:04:37
Hi, doing my own little research i came up this theory...
Lamictal blocks Glutamate in the brain, can cause psychosis with people having schizophrenia
that i've read in medicial archive somewhere on the internet..
now how will Glycine react on this.. read this:
However, a new emerging theory on the cause of schizophrenia is moving away from pure dopamine, and shifting focus towards NMDA-type receptors that use glutamate as a messenger. Greater understanding of NMDA function and dysfunction is raising the possibility that glycine, an essential cofactor molecule for NMDA receptors, may improve the function of these receptors in the brains of schizophrenia patients. Some researchers are postulating that targeting NMDA receptors may alleviate positive, negative, and cognitive symptoms of schizophrenia.
Posted by SLS on December 30, 2009, at 12:24:44
In reply to A question to linkadge, posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 12:09:34
I would have to agree with Linkadge that it makes sense for you to be cautious when investing all of your hopes in any one treatment. I am sure that you already know this.
Your thoughts on glutamate are interesting. I hope your theory helps you to find a successful treatment soon.
- Scott
Posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 12:37:35
In reply to Re: A question to linkadge » Jeroen, posted by SLS on December 30, 2009, at 12:24:44
thanks happy holidays to you all :)
Posted by Phillipa on December 30, 2009, at 12:47:49
In reply to Re: A question to linkadge, posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 12:37:35
Jeroen stay safe and Happy Holidays to you also. Love Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2009, at 14:39:42
In reply to Re: A question to linkadge » Jeroen, posted by Phillipa on December 30, 2009, at 12:47:49
Don't get me wrong, I hope it will work, but I just wouldn't put *all* my hopes in anything.
Linkadge
Posted by Phidippus on December 31, 2009, at 15:44:11
In reply to putting all my hopes on Glycine ..., posted by Jeroen on December 30, 2009, at 11:47:42
What are you hoping it will do?
P
Posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 15:58:33
In reply to Re: putting all my hopes on Glycine ... » Jeroen, posted by Phidippus on December 31, 2009, at 15:44:11
treat psychosis schizophrenia, cure my social withdrawal
Posted by Phidippus on December 31, 2009, at 16:10:19
In reply to Re: putting all my hopes on Glycine ..., posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 15:58:33
There's a lot of positive literature on Glycine, but most of it focuses on using Glycine to treat the negative symptoms of schizophrenia:
Glycine and Glycine-like Compounds
Increasing NMDA function with glycine agonists may be a potential new strategy for the management of schizophrenia (22), particularly for the treatment of negative symptomatology (34,38). Since the conventional, DA-blocking antipsychotics are generally not effective for negative symptoms, augmentation of therapeutic effects with glycine and glycine-like compounds may be an effective treatment alternative.An open study by Waziri et al. (80) was one of the first to report that glycine has antipsychotic properties. Eleven schizophrenic patients were given high doses (525 g/day) of glycine in addition to treatment with typical neuroleptics. Clinical improvement was observed in 4/11 patients and was maintained after the neuroleptics were withdrawn. An open study by Costa et al. (16) reported improvement in two of six chronic schizophrenic patients treated with glycine (15 g/day) and typical neuroleptics. In another open investigation, Rosse et al. (69) administered glycine (10.8 g/day) to six chronic schizophrenics and observed improvement in BPRS and SANS ratings in three of the patients. Potkin et al. (66) reported improvement in two of 11 patients maintained on neuroleptics and treated with glycine (15 g/day) in a double-blind, placebo-controlled study. Heresco-Levy et al. (34) administered high-dose glycine (0.8 g/kg) as adjuvant therapy in a double-blind, placebo-controlled crossover trial. Improvement in negative symptoms (PANSS) was observed only after six weeks of glycine treatment in 8/11 patients; improvement was maintained after glycine was withdrawn. Measurements of glycine levels revealed that those patients with the lowest pretreatment levels showed the most improvement in negative symptoms. One of the most convincing pieces of data for the antipsychotic effects of glycine is from a double-blind, placebo-controlled study by Javitt et al. (38) which showed that high doses of glycine (30 g/day) improved negative symptoms in all seven of the neuroleptic-treated schizophrenics in the study.
Other glycine-related compounds administered to schizophrenics include milacemide, an acylated "prodrug" of glycine that is converted into glycine in the brain (68), and D-cycloserine, a partial agonist at the glycine site (13,28). Open studies of "low" and "high" dose milacemide by Rosse et al. (69) showed no significant therapeutic effects of the drug. Data from an increasing number of studies suggest that D-cycloserine may be effective in a narrow dose range (e.g., 50100 mg) in the treatment of negative symptoms (28,29,18,79). However, one open study by Cascella et al. (13) used high doses of milacemide (250 mg), which produced improvement in 1/7 patients and clinical worsening in 4/7 patients. Dramatic improvement in negative symptoms was seen in five of nine patients in a dose-finding trial (28). A more recent study (29) of 50 schizophrenic outpatients in an eight week, placebo-controlled trial showed that SANS scores were reduced by 20% in the D-cycloserine-treated group, specifically on the subscales measuring flat affect and anhedonia. DeSouza et al. (18) similarly observed an improvement in negative symptoms after treatment with D-cycloserine. Finally, a single-blind study in drug-free schizophrenics showed that D-cycloserine-treated patients had significant reductions in negative symptoms (79).
Glycine Transport Inhibitors
The identification of glycine transport inhibitors provided a new and exciting approach to the development of alternative antipsychotic compounds (5). Two classes of glycine transporters have been cloned and identified. These are GlyT1 and related subunits (GlyT1a-c), which are present in forebrain and colocalize with NMDA-R, and Gly T2, found in spinal cord and brain stem, and which colocalizes with strychnine-sensitive glycine receptors. The glycine transporters are high-affinity and regulate extracellular glycine. Inhibitors to the Gly transporters have been identified. Of these, the most potent is TxRx 5311 which is active at the GlyT1c receptors. In vivo experiments in rats showed that the GlyT1 transport inhibitors decreased PCP-induced increases in locomotor activity. Research data suggests that these compounds are selective for NMDA-R channel activity, the site where PCP is active (5). These substrates may be more effective than glycine in the treatment of schizophrenia (39). Since schizophrenic patients with low pretreatment glycine levels are the most likely to respond to glycine agonists (34), this subgroup of patients may be particularly good responders to treatment with glycine transport inhibitors.
Posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 16:22:23
In reply to Re: putting all my hopes on Glycine ... » Jeroen, posted by Phidippus on December 31, 2009, at 16:10:19
Will my symptoms will get worse on Glycine?
I've had a drug induced psychosis, possible to glutamate blocking of the lamictal -->>> psychosis
stupid me......
Posted by bleauberry on December 31, 2009, at 19:43:32
In reply to Will my symptoms will get worse on Glycine?, posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 16:22:23
Jereon, keep in mind Glycine is a common over the counter substance found in health food stores. It is a natural substance in your body. You've had glycine in you your whole life. It is not a drug. You are merely going to be giving your body an extra boost of it, as it has been found to be deficient in schizophrenia disorders, anxiety disorders, and some depressive disorders.
As is typical, natural bodily substances usually have a wide range of mechanisms and functions, so trying to pin down one particular mechanism it does is not only flawed but is only a tiny piece of a big picture that we can't even see.
Just go with it and think positive. Imagine it working. See it. Picture it. Take those negative thoughts and lock them out of your room.
I used to take glycine to calm down when I had viscious anxiety after stopping Zyprexa. It worked amazingly well for that, better than drugs did without any side effects.
Posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 23:20:05
In reply to Re: Will my symptoms will get worse on Glycine?, posted by bleauberry on December 31, 2009, at 19:43:32
i'm sick, it might help me...
let's seeremember what amantadine did, an NMDA antagonist
this is an NMDA antagonist too as far i'm reading
Posted by neuralbudhist on January 1, 2010, at 17:11:01
In reply to to bleauberry, posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 23:20:05
"i'm sick, it might help me...
> let's see
>
> remember what amantadine did, an NMDA antagonist
> this is an NMDA antagonist too as far i'm reading"
I believe you are confused. Amantadine is a treatment for tardive dyskinesia. It can actualy create psychosis as it adjusts dopamine levels. You were concerned that the Lamictal caused tardive dyskinesia (in another thread on here). That is clinically extreme rare but within possibility. More likely it was caused by an anti-psychotic. The best way to recieve help for that is to see a neurologist who is a movement disorders specialist. As for "Lamictal induced psychosis", it is known that (some) mood stabilizers (specifically anti-convulsants, lithium not among them) can cause a change in affect that may include suicidal ideations. There was a known warning about that. That happenned to me with Keppra but not with Lamictal. As for the criteria "tardive psychosis" which is the idea of an antipsychotic permanently worsening psychosis that criteria itself is still under clinical study so more has to be understood before its clinically confirmed as to whether it exists and what it is.
Glycine in the Phase II FDA study has shown efficacy on cognitive and negative symptoms. I am the first person for it to have any proven efficacy for positive symptoms and for it to replace a neuraleptic. My recovery is unique and although clinically confirmed is a "finding" not a fact. Best to go by the controlled studies and work with your psychiatrist (at all times) and see how it helps you. But make sure not to confuse neurological recovery (which is also needed), temporary side effects of medications, side effects under clinical study as well as the efficacy of antipsychotics agents under clinical study. If you have questions take the information you found on the internet and discuss it with your psychiatrist who should be supervising this the whole time.
Posted by bleauberry on January 1, 2010, at 18:10:16
In reply to to bleauberry, posted by Jeroen on December 31, 2009, at 23:20:05
> i'm sick, it might help me...
> let's see
>
> remember what amantadine did, an NMDA antagonist
> this is an NMDA antagonist too as far i'm reading
I think I can see your thinking here.What does amantadine do? Well, if we were to list all the known mechanisms of it, there would probably be 20 or more. NMDA is just one of those. And it doesn't take into account how weak or potent or select that NMDA action is. Very generalistic. No detail. Very cherrypicked. Like looking through binoculars backwards. Ever seen how narrow and small things look in binoculars when looking at them the wrong way? Looking at amantadine as a NMDA antagonist is like that.
Then, doing the same analysis of glycine compounds the misperception double. Glycine does a lot of things,and it is a natural ingredient in your body.
We do not know that the NMDA mechanism of amantadine was THE thing that went bad for you. It could have been any of many other things. That is not even one of its primary mechanisms. NMDA is one of the lesser things it does.
Like I said, forget the theory stuff. Junk the science. It's fun to talk about, but don't let it cloud your thinking. Think positive. You know someone who was helped a great deal by Glycine, right? And I can show you a bunch more people who were too. Hold on to that! Don't lose sight of that. While your mind will try to second-guess it, don't fall for that sneaky trap.
There is absolutely no way to know how you will feel with glycine. No way. We have to try things to see what happens. Simple as that. Don't let the second-guessing and armchair quarterbacking muddy things up.
I have hopes. I especially like several things about this:
1. Glycine is a safe natural substance of your body.
2. Glycine has multiple benefits.
3. Glycine has helped many schizophrenic people, usually in combination with antipsychotics.
4. Glycine is a new chapter for you...I am really tired of your doctors throwing one antipsychotic after another at you. Go to pubmed for a few dozen hours and you'll see that people very similar to you had other meds in their mix that were different from antipsychotics. Glycine is different. That's a good step. I like that.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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