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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by cactus on October 18, 2009, at 0:03:25
Since I have had a really good look at the meds that have help me over the years, which have been few. I have noticed that all of them involved dopamine to a certain extent.
I've never tried straight out stimulants, (I don't consider modafinil in this group but others might) they are not easily prescribe here. If things don't improve for me soon I might just come straight out and ask for it. I'm not doing so well.
Currently on 5mg of clonazepam + naturopathy, Rhodiola Complex, Magnesium Complex and Fish Oil Omega Brain concentrate, purified from mercury, all very good but very expensive.
And just for the record I'm not one of those people who suffer from clonazepam depression.
Posted by bleauberry on October 18, 2009, at 13:42:27
In reply to Thinking about Ritilan, posted by cactus on October 18, 2009, at 0:03:25
> Since I have had a really good look at the meds that have help me over the years, which have been few. I have noticed that all of them involved dopamine to a certain extent.
You could maybe try tyrosine supplements. Start low, at say 75mg (which is FAR less than recommended on bottles) and work up from there. Don't expect sudden miracles. Studies showed results in the 3 to 6 week range. Too much too fast will give side effects such as too much coffee and headaches. I mention tyrosine because it is the precursor to dopamine.
Another precursor is Mucuna Pruriens, which supplies L-Dopa that converts to dopamine.
Ritalin is in a class all its own, so categorizing meds into "stimulants" or "dopamine meds" might not work. You will have to try all within each class. For example, the stimulant Adderall sends me into a deep depression, but the stimulant Ritalin lifts my mood quickly. They are both working on dopamine, but in different ways.
The closest thing I have felt to Ritalin was Milnacipran (Savella). While it is an AD in the rest of the world and a FM med in USA, and definitely not a stimulant, it had in my opinion a vaguely similar feel as Ritalin, almost as if they were cousins.
You could try a different brand of Rhodiola. Visiting other forums it becomes obvious that one brand is not the same as the next. Some give energy. Some give mood. Some do all of the above. Some just give headaches and anxiety. The only way to find which one is best for each person is to try different brands. The Mind Body Spirit brand seems to get a lot of thumbs up.
Posted by Rosy Crucifiction on October 18, 2009, at 13:43:39
In reply to Thinking about Ritilan, posted by cactus on October 18, 2009, at 0:03:25
I found Ritilan per se a bit nasty. The euphoric effects lead to depression. But I've had very good luck so far with Concerta, memantine, bupropion and liotrix. You might see the thread above at "Related: mematine methylphenidate synergy?"
Posted by Maxime on October 18, 2009, at 13:47:00
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by Rosy Crucifiction on October 18, 2009, at 13:43:39
> I found Ritilan per se a bit nasty. The euphoric effects lead to depression. But I've had very good luck so far with Concerta, memantine, bupropion and liotrix. You might see the thread above at "Related: mematine methylphenidate synergy?"
I found the same thing ... the crash from Ritalin was just awful. I did much better on Adderall ... it's a smoother med.
Posted by bulldog2 on October 18, 2009, at 15:08:04
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by bleauberry on October 18, 2009, at 13:42:27
> > Since I have had a really good look at the meds that have help me over the years, which have been few. I have noticed that all of them involved dopamine to a certain extent.
>
> You could maybe try tyrosine supplements. Start low, at say 75mg (which is FAR less than recommended on bottles) and work up from there. Don't expect sudden miracles. Studies showed results in the 3 to 6 week range. Too much too fast will give side effects such as too much coffee and headaches. I mention tyrosine because it is the precursor to dopamine.
>
> Another precursor is Mucuna Pruriens, which supplies L-Dopa that converts to dopamine.
>
> Ritalin is in a class all its own, so categorizing meds into "stimulants" or "dopamine meds" might not work. You will have to try all within each class. For example, the stimulant Adderall sends me into a deep depression, but the stimulant Ritalin lifts my mood quickly. They are both working on dopamine, but in different ways.
>
> The closest thing I have felt to Ritalin was Milnacipran (Savella). While it is an AD in the rest of the world and a FM med in USA, and definitely not a stimulant, it had in my opinion a vaguely similar feel as Ritalin, almost as if they were cousins.
>
> You could try a different brand of Rhodiola. Visiting other forums it becomes obvious that one brand is not the same as the next. Some give energy. Some give mood. Some do all of the above. Some just give headaches and anxiety. The only way to find which one is best for each person is to try different brands. The Mind Body Spirit brand seems to get a lot of thumbs up.
>
>I think most of the stims just release ne and da. Ritalin also blocks the reup take of them. Ritalin also works more on ne than the other stims.
Posted by West on October 18, 2009, at 16:40:49
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan » bleauberry, posted by bulldog2 on October 18, 2009, at 15:08:04
milnacipran didn't feel like ritalin to me. i'm actually about to start the generic version equasym here & really hope it doesn't add to my depression. The instant release makes me deeply avoidant and jumpy.
Posted by cactus on October 19, 2009, at 3:23:57
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by West on October 18, 2009, at 16:40:49
well my last pdoc thinks that my ne system is totally shot, big time, so maybe it would benefit me. I need to keep working and all I want to do is quit. If it can get me through a really rough patch I think it's worth a trial. I just need to get through this. I'm just hanging in there. C
Posted by bleauberry on October 19, 2009, at 18:42:53
In reply to Thinking about Ritilan, posted by cactus on October 18, 2009, at 0:03:25
As mentioned, Ritalin blocks the reuptake of NE and DA, unlike the other stims. To me that feels good. Maybe it is the stronger action on NE that feels good. I dunno. Ritalin also has some effect on serotonin. It also has an effect of energizing the nervous system and brain stem, totally different from anything it does with neurotransmitters, and different than what other stims do.
I saw my doc today and showed her how I carry around little chunks of ritalin in my pocket pill box for emergencies. I told her I rarely use them and I haven't used any in at least a month, but they are always with me just in case. She gave me this puzzled look like why would I deny myself something that helps me feel better while treating Lyme. I guess I didn't have a good answer for that, except that something in my gut instinct says to be careful with stims. I'm probably over-fearful, because the chunks I'm talking about are probably 2mg. Maybe I should use them more often. They are excellent bandaids.
I've seen reports where the elderly (80-90 years) when faced with depression or post-stroke are often treated with Ritalin instead of antidepressants. Why? Because it works better, faster, with less side effects. Gee, do we have to get old to enjoy that kind of drug?
Posted by linkadge on October 19, 2009, at 20:07:06
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by bleauberry on October 19, 2009, at 18:42:53
Ritalin seems to help me with cylcical depression breakthroughs. I may only need it once of twice a week, but it seems to prevent a shut downs.
d-methylphenidate the metabolite of ritalin has more effect on norepinephrine reuptake. It also has some 5-ht1a agnonist effects, which will also release dopamine in the PFC.
Linkadge
Posted by cactus on October 20, 2009, at 13:59:39
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by linkadge on October 19, 2009, at 20:07:06
that sounds just like what I need. Something I don't need everyday and something to stop rapid, cyclic depressive intrusive thoughts. I also shift work and when I get to midday, I'm not nice to be around. If I can find something to get me through the afternoon when I go into a black mood, that would be great. Modafinil did this for me for 1.5 years and I need that back or I feel like I'm going to flip out and lose my job.
Posted by cactus on October 21, 2009, at 20:33:16
In reply to Re: Thinking about Ritilan, posted by cactus on October 20, 2009, at 13:59:39
Well I saw my GP today and had a great chat with him. We went through my previous meds and I said to him, "After everything I've taken and other things I've looked into, I'd like to try Ritalin."
He said wow, that's an excellent suggestion, I hadn't thought of it. Wrote me a script for 100 tabs with 5 repeats, it's a very hard drug to get in Australia. I took 10mg this morning and I feel normal.
IT'S $300 CHEAPER THAN MODAFINIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
No racing, intrusive thoughts, I've gotten off my butt and did some pruning in the garden instead of lying on the couch staring at the wall. I do not feel high or altered in anyway.
I feel focused, motivated and calm. My anxiety has vanished and the blackness seems to have lifted.
I have stopped shaking inside and out. My hands are steady and so is my heart and mind.
Happy C. Peace
Posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2009, at 16:41:34
In reply to Got Ritilan. Anyone had similar reaction?, posted by cactus on October 21, 2009, at 20:33:16
> Well I saw my GP today and had a great chat with him. We went through my previous meds and I said to him, "After everything I've taken and other things I've looked into, I'd like to try Ritalin."
>
> He said wow, that's an excellent suggestion, I hadn't thought of it. Wrote me a script for 100 tabs with 5 repeats, it's a very hard drug to get in Australia. I took 10mg this morning and I feel normal.
>
> IT'S $300 CHEAPER THAN MODAFINIL!!!!!!!!!!!!!
>
> No racing, intrusive thoughts, I've gotten off my butt and did some pruning in the garden instead of lying on the couch staring at the wall. I do not feel high or altered in anyway.
>
> I feel focused, motivated and calm. My anxiety has vanished and the blackness seems to have lifted.
>
> I have stopped shaking inside and out. My hands are steady and so is my heart and mind.
>
> Happy C. PeaceThat is exactly why I always carry some around with me. The difference is though I use it for emergencies, not daily or even weekly.
I guess I would like to take it everyday, but I am so afraid of a probable tolerance setting in. In addition to that, I am very underweight. A stimulant is not good for my appetite.
The dose that does it for me is a silly 2.5mg. I take a 10mg and break it in quarters.
I'm excited you felt such goodness! You deserve it. It will require more responsibility going forward than a reuptake inhibitor would, but I'm sure you are aware of that.
Posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 18:06:35
In reply to Re: Got Ritilan. Anyone had similar reaction?, posted by bleauberry on October 22, 2009, at 16:41:34
Thanks Bleauberry, it's still very early days, I have only had modafinil, ropinirole and reboxetine work this quickly. I got a good 1.5 years out of modafinil but it made me shaky, so here's hoping that this keeps me going for quite a while after the stupid amount of meds I have tried over the years.
I must admit though, I'm so angry that I've had to wait almost 20 years to find that after 1 pill, I feel like I have been air lifted by chopper out of the grand canyon of darkness and that when I found out about my sleep disorders, I was offered modafinil 1st instead of ritialin for my OSA. Ropinirole 1st over clonazepam for RLS. Don't get me wrong about ropinirole though, it's great for RLS and surprisingly amazing for depression too except it made me projectile vomit for months. Clonazepam works for me on so many levels, it stops RLS, anxiety, regulates my mood and stops hypnopompic and hypnogogic hallucinations dead in there tracks.
My GP rang that pdoc I was suppose to see, they are friends and worked together for years and he said he wouldn't see me, he's not taking new patients. I hate pdoc's but I know when I have to go see one. Because my GP has worked in the mental health system for years he has said he's happy to monitor me for the time being and if I need a pdoc he'll send me to one ASAP. I think that's fair enough and I'll go when I have to.
I too am quite underweight for a guy my age so I'll have to keep a close eye on that too and make sure that I keep eating well.
Thanks for all your tips and pointers over the last couple of months, they have been very helpful. I forgot to tell you that the rhodiola didn't work out for me. It ended up making my anxiety go through the roof and gave me hot flashes and really bad shakes. Tremors run in the family but so far the only 2 meds that stopped them have been Ritialin and ropinirole.
I plan to stay on 10-20mg a day or less if I need it. I have to be steady at work and until I have a camera on my shoulder I won't be able to gauge that.
Thanks to shift work I have 4 days off. I might leave the house, I never leave the house unless I have to work. So many T's have tried to figure out how I manage to get to work but never leave the house for anything else and have tried to work that into crossover therapy to get me out the door on my days off.
Once again still early days, I must not get ahead of myself, god I hope this one stays with me! I do tend to get excited when something effects me this profoundly because it's only happened a handful of times. Then it ends up dumping me down the track.
Thank again, Peace C.
Posted by linkadge on October 22, 2009, at 18:53:14
In reply to Re: Got Ritilan. Anyone had similar reaction? » bleauberry, posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 18:06:35
Well, just some warning.
That "I feel better than ever feeling" is a little bit of a high. It may not last.
When Freud first described cocaine, he said that the feeling was simply one of restored health and vigor, not unlike those experienced by the young. He went on to become an addict and had some psychotic like effects.
I am a fan of ritalin, when used judiciously but many feel pretty lousy when it wears off.
I certainly don't recomend it as a sole agent for these reasons. The psychostimulant like effects and mood improvement tend to peter away and some end up boosting the dose.
Just be careful.
Linkadge
Posted by cactus on October 22, 2009, at 19:02:55
In reply to Re: Got Ritilan. Anyone had similar reaction?, posted by linkadge on October 22, 2009, at 18:53:14
Thanks for the warning, I hope it doesn't come to that. I do have an addictive personality so my GP and I are going to keep a close eye on it. Thanks C
This is the end of the thread.
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