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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:23:27
In reply to Re: Parnate and me, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 12, 2009, at 20:32:58
hi
when did you start with parnate and how do you divide up the 40mg?
thanks
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 9:32:35
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:23:27
> hi
> when did you start with parnate and how do you divide up the 40mg?
> thanksI started five weeks ago, and worked my way up to 30mg.. I now take 20mg at breakfAst and 20mg at lunch. Tonight at 40mg my slleep is worse than ever. 15mg imovane is doing nothing. I wonder if it's the dose raise or 0.5 risperdal I took for the first time. My impression was it helps sleep
Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:40:39
In reply to Re: Parnate and me, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 9:32:35
How did you tolerate the 20 together
i just took 20 at once and I feel like I am going to faint.....
Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:44:54
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:23:27
Hi guys
Sunbath I am sooooo happy you are settling on the drugI need to ask you guys a question.
How are you dosing your drug?
when do you take it and how much at a time?
I just took 20 together (my pdoc told me to) and I feel like I am going to faint!Thanks for the help
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 21:52:04
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:40:39
> How did you tolerate the 20 together
> i just took 20 at once and I feel like I am going to faint.....i don't know. everybody's different. i can take 20mg and then 20mg half an hour later and feel okay; my blood pressure's fine right now, unless i have a hot bath or something. try splitting your dose.
Posted by MAxime on October 13, 2009, at 22:10:07
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 9:40:39
Everyone IS different. When I was on 80 mg of Parnate I used to take it all at once in the morning. I tried splitting the dose but I would always forget to take the second dose. How high a dosage are you planning to go up to?
Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 22:49:36
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » delna, posted by MAxime on October 13, 2009, at 22:10:07
How high a dosage are you planning to go up to?
The doctor hasn't told me anything but he said he has people on 80mg as well- depending on response. But he said it always has to be split even though I told him I was keen to take it all at night. Infact he is making me take one dose at 6pm and one at 8pm. I have no idea how dosing time is affecting me.....but I wake up alert and feeling fine but as the day progresses I get more sleepy and low and go back to being suicidal. Its odd.
Thanks for your reply!
TC
D
Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 22:51:22
In reply to Re: Parnate and me, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 21:52:04
Thanks for the reply.
What are your dose timings?
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 22:55:56
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 22:51:22
> Thanks for the reply.
> What are your dose timings?well i stay up late and sleep in, so i take the first when i wake up at 11am, and the next at around 1pm
Posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 23:08:10
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » delna, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 13, 2009, at 22:55:56
> > Thanks for the reply.
> > What are your dose timings?
>
> well i stay up late and sleep in, so i take the first when i wake up at 11am, and the next at around 1pmI take mine in the evening. in split doses. I don't get insomnia but I like to stay up late but I still wake up after around 5 hours. When I wake up I am really alert and feel fine but by the afternoon I feel tired and depressed again. I wonder if its the dosing time....I'm really confused.
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 14, 2009, at 0:08:41
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 23:08:10
Hi Delna:
Seems like you're feeling better. That's great!!
I, myself, am totally confused about when to take my 70mg. Parnate. I started out morning and noon. I was so tired pdoc moved it to dinner, evening...I asked him if I could take it all at once and he didn't like the idea, said two doses, evening and bedtime. Well, I can't remember worth a darn to take it that way, so I end up taking it all at once at bedtime. I don't know if that is the best.
I was really tired no mattter what until pdoc put me on the Provigil. I wish I knew whether the Parnate makes me so tired now that I've been on it 6 months, but I'm not willing to forego the Provigil to find out!
So, I'm not much help at all!! I am totally confused myself!!
I'm anxious to see what you do and also others taking Parnate!
I do know that life is much better now!!
Hallellujah!Keep up the good work, Delna!
Hugs,
Gayle
Posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 0:35:08
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » delna, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 14, 2009, at 0:08:41
> Hi Delna:
>
> Seems like you're feeling better. That's great!!
>
> I, myself, am totally confused about when to take my 70mg. Parnate. I started out morning and noon. I was so tired pdoc moved it to dinner, evening...I asked him if I could take it all at once and he didn't like the idea, said two doses, evening and bedtime. Well, I can't remember worth a darn to take it that way, so I end up taking it all at once at bedtime. I don't know if that is the best.
>
> I was really tired no mattter what until pdoc put me on the Provigil. I wish I knew whether the Parnate makes me so tired now that I've been on it 6 months, but I'm not willing to forego the Provigil to find out!
>
> So, I'm not much help at all!! I am totally confused myself!!
>
> I'm anxious to see what you do and also others taking Parnate!
>
> I do know that life is much better now!!
> Hallellujah!
>
> Keep up the good work, Delna!
>
> Hugs,
> GayleHi Gayle!
No actually I am not feeling better. Its really rocky and inconsistent- I feel ok in the mornings and by the afternoon I am zonked and also very depressed inspite of the 200mg provigil. Yesterday I became suicidal again. It's all all really weird. Usually with AD's the first thing to go are suicidal feelings. With Parnate you feel good one day and rotten the next. Very confusing- I was ready to give it up but now my last choice is Effexor (high dose) which I don't know will work. Last time I took it, it was minus a mood stabalizer so it worked because I switched into a manic high. I was like that for 8 months but I don't know if it will lift severe depression if I don't switch. (which I wont because of the Lamictal)About your dosing:
I guess if you can tolerate 70mg at once that must be okay. I think (really not sure) that perhaps they want to divide the dose so your blood pressure doesn't suddenly jump. If you are ok on it physically, maybe that is fine. Personally I took 20mg at once and nearly fainted- my head was reeling and my heart was beating in a weird way- not too fast though.If I figure out a good way to dose I will be sure to let you know. Maybe there is a way to avoid tiredness all together. Who knows.....
meanwhile take care
Love
D
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 14, 2009, at 1:45:30
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » ColoradoSnowflake, posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 0:35:08
Hi Delna:
I was talking to a friend tonight and she reminded me that I felt HORRIBLE for at least 3 months. Very very inconsistent just like you said. I was all over the place and most of it was bad. I was just determined to make it work. My pdoc made me promise I would give it at least 6 months, and I did. I'm so so glad I did. It was Parnate or ECT. I feel so good I can't believe I might have missed this!
Also, I had read several places that "Parnate ALWAYS works, if you work with it" meaning augmenting, etc. I really believe that now.
I remember now, I even had to give up my exercise classes which meant a lot to me. I NEVER had missed many....5 days a week. But I just couldn't go. I felt too bad, too sleepy, just stayed in bed much of the time. I didn't even feel like reading or watching videos or tv. Unbelievable. I just layed there, sometimes in bed and sometimes on the couch. I thought I would be the only person in the world that "failed" Parnate.
I still can't do my classes because I get dizzy and fall. It isn't my BP, it's my equilibrium. I really do think that will get better too. Just needs more time.It is still getting better for me! even though I feel better than I have for 15 years!
I hope you don't give up and miss the miracle.
Hang in there, girl!!
Hugs and love,
Gayle
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 3:16:21
In reply to Re: Parnate and me, posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 14, 2009, at 1:45:30
> Hi Delna:
>
> I was talking to a friend tonight and she reminded me that I felt HORRIBLE for at least 3 months. Very very inconsistent just like you said. I was all over the place and most of it was bad. I was just determined to make it work. My pdoc made me promise I would give it at least 6 months, and I did. I'm so so glad I did. It was Parnate or ECT. I feel so good I can't believe I might have missed this!
>
> Also, I had read several places that "Parnate ALWAYS works, if you work with it" meaning augmenting, etc. I really believe that now.
>
> I remember now, I even had to give up my exercise classes which meant a lot to me. I NEVER had missed many....5 days a week. But I just couldn't go. I felt too bad, too sleepy, just stayed in bed much of the time. I didn't even feel like reading or watching videos or tv. Unbelievable. I just layed there, sometimes in bed and sometimes on the couch. I thought I would be the only person in the world that "failed" Parnate.
> I still can't do my classes because I get dizzy and fall. It isn't my BP, it's my equilibrium. I really do think that will get better too. Just needs more time.
>
> It is still getting better for me! even though I feel better than I have for 15 years!
>
> I hope you don't give up and miss the miracle.
>
> Hang in there, girl!!
>
> Hugs and love,
> Gaylei know what you mean. for some reason, parnate just makes me want to lie around all day. unfortunately, i'm also getting the worst agitation/anger episodes. did you ever experience anything like that?
Posted by Sunbath on October 14, 2009, at 6:27:30
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » ColoradoSnowflake, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 3:16:21
Thank you all!!!
I'm really glad that I'm too in the Parnate club now :)
BTW: the inital "high" like feeling I got is nearly gone now.. I really hope that's not a sign of poop out..
@delna: I'm very sorry that you are still not better :( But maybe your extreme tiredness during the day is from not sleeping enough?5 hours are normally far too little!I also wake up alerted and somewhat ready when I wake up too soon with Parnate, but it's not good and I then don't feel good during the day!
What are u taking to help with sleep?
My timings are: 2x10mg when I wake up (usually 7am-10am) and 2x10mg at ~1pm..
Also: the EXTREME sleepiness I had during the first 7- 10days on Parnate went away from one day to the other, now I only have this late afternoon fatigue which feels a bit different and isn't so severe!
BUT before that I was "forced" to try taking Parnate at night because I thought that would eliminate the tiredness during the day.. I was wrong though.. maybe it got a little bit better, but not much.. but as a result I slept much worse.. so I then I again took it during the day which is MUCH better for me!
Maybe you should give it a try, then maybe you would sleep a little bit longer and have more energy during the day! I cannot IMAGINE how I'd feel if I was only sleeping 5hrs a night!
I really really hope you are getting better!!!!
Good luck!!!To the issue regarding stimulants.. yes maybe the tiredness would improve with time and after reading a bit I'm not so excited about Ritalin anymore..
I totally forgot about Olmifon, Adrafinil though!!
This is really cheap.. what do you think about that as it's mainly Modafinil with some delayed onset..
Posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 14:21:27
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » MAxime, posted by delna on October 13, 2009, at 22:49:36
Hi D.
I imagine that my end dose will be between 80 - 100 mg since that is what worked last time. I will see if I can get by on 60 mg, but somehow I doubt that will be enough. I metabolize meds ultra fast.
Posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 14:25:33
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » ColoradoSnowflake, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 3:16:21
I am having a lot of trouble getting out of bed. I am not sleeping, but just laying there staring at the walls. All I want to do is hide in bed. I don't know if it's my depression or the Parnate. I hope it's the depression.
Posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 15:53:34
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 14:25:33
I'm so frustrated with this drug
I know it has been 15 days but I have yet to come across a drug that takes so long to get rid of suicidal feelings.
Am up to 30mg but when I take 20mg together (at night) like my pdoc said I get hypotension and feel like I am going to have a black out. I sleep/pass out for a few hours. Plus I am sleepy all day despite the provigil 200mg. I am such a basically sleepy person and this drug is having no stimulant/lifting effect on me. I am thinking of stopping cold turkey since my dose has been 30mg for only 2 days. Then I think I will go on Effexor (high dose) with wellbutrin and provigil.
I know people here are swearing by this pill but I don't understand how people have put up with such rocky, inconsistent and terrible days. This pill is just making me give up hope :( I wish I was equally strong willed as everyone else who has waited it out- I don't think I can make it.
Maybe I am being impatient but this is making me more suicidal- the tiredness makes me depressed in its own right and because i cannot augment with ridiculously high does of provigil and wellbutrin i am pretty stuck.
Very confused
My parents and doctor dont feel I am giving it a fair trial but I feel worse than when I started (physically) and am still suicidal (although not so actively- but I am getting there)
Just so confused......and sad :(
Love to all
Thanks for all your positive, kind words
D
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 16:41:25
In reply to Re: Parnate and me » g_g_g_unit, posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 14:25:33
> I am having a lot of trouble getting out of bed. I am not sleeping, but just laying there staring at the walls. All I want to do is hide in bed. I don't know if it's my depression or the Parnate. I hope it's the depression.
maybe both? hopefully it's a step on the way to remission, otherwise i don't think i can deal with this anger much longer
Posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 16:45:47
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up, posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 15:53:34
> I'm so frustrated with this drug
> I know it has been 15 days but I have yet to come across a drug that takes so long to get rid of suicidal feelings.
> Am up to 30mg but when I take 20mg together (at night) like my pdoc said I get hypotension and feel like I am going to have a black out. I sleep/pass out for a few hours. Plus I am sleepy all day despite the provigil 200mg. I am such a basically sleepy person and this drug is having no stimulant/lifting effect on me. I am thinking of stopping cold turkey since my dose has been 30mg for only 2 days. Then I think I will go on Effexor (high dose) with wellbutrin and provigil.
> I know people here are swearing by this pill but I don't understand how people have put up with such rocky, inconsistent and terrible days. This pill is just making me give up hope :( I wish I was equally strong willed as everyone else who has waited it out- I don't think I can make it.
> Maybe I am being impatient but this is making me more suicidal- the tiredness makes me depressed in its own right and because i cannot augment with ridiculously high does of provigil and wellbutrin i am pretty stuck.
> Very confused
> My parents and doctor dont feel I am giving it a fair trial but I feel worse than when I started (physically) and am still suicidal (although not so actively- but I am getting there)
> Just so confused......and sad :(
> Love to all
> Thanks for all your positive, kind words
> D
>sorry to hear that Delna :( if it's any concilitation i was on the verge of giving up at 30mg because i saw no effect at all. 40mg, which i've been on for two days, has made enough different to stick it out .. there's definitely some change happening. like you, the effect is very inconsistent in me - for one, these anger episodes are unbearable - but i think i'll wait it out a bit longer.
don't feel bad for giving up. it seems to have become a kind of trend to take Parnate here, so i know i felt weird for quitting at first - like i had failed some test. but it is a really hard drug to work with
Posted by ColoradoSnowflake on October 14, 2009, at 18:07:17
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 16:45:47
Hi Fellow Parnate Sufferers
I agree with whomever said this was a difficult drug.
gggunit: Yes on the anger. I don't generally have anger issues but I did go through maybe 3 weeks of being very angry. I felt like a little kid. I wanted to STOMP around the house....throw things, kick things, say as bad words as I could think of. Tear up paper. I was glad to be living alone so I didn't have to be nice to anyone on a regular basis. I was mad at everything and everybody. It was kind of scary to me because I'm not used to it. At the time I thought it was me, maybe going more nuts. But then it just went away.
All of this is very confusing. And I do feel very very clear headed all the time. More than I'm used to.
So what can I say?
It IS confusing.....but most of the time now I feel pretty darn good.Hugs,
Gayle
Posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 22:10:14
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up, posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 15:53:34
How long will you have to wait before you can try the Effexor?
Posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 22:51:20
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up » delna, posted by MAxime on October 14, 2009, at 22:10:14
> How long will you have to wait before you can try the Effexor?
2 weeks according to my pdoc and according to references. It will be a hard wait but I think I may feel better just being off this drug and on my 400mg provigil.
He says he will 'cover' me with a TCA which sounds pointless to me because by the time the TCA kicks in (if it does) it will be time to get off and TCA's have to be titrated down as they have a withdrawal syndrome of their own.
I think I will stay just on the Lamictal and provigil in the interim.
TC
D
Posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 23:50:50
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up, posted by g_g_g_unit on October 14, 2009, at 16:45:47
>
> don't feel bad for giving up. it seems to have become a kind of trend to take Parnate here, so i know i felt weird for quitting at first - like i had failed some test. but it is a really hard drug to work with
Thanks for that...
Yes, it is a hard drug to deal with and I am amazed and in awe that people have stuck through the worst side effects to achieve benefits.
Sorry to hear that it is giving you such problems but glad to hear that you are feeling a positive difference at a higher dose. As Gayle posted, she had awful anger issues but they went away. Even I have anger issues with Parnate but I like them because I really do feel its a sign that you are getting better (IMHO) but unlike you I am not having the psychomotor part which would be hard to stand. I DO hope it gets better.I'm pretty annoyed at my pdoc for giving me a drug like this especially when I was desperately suicidal when I went to see him. It is a drug you have to titrate up pretty slowly and one that gives many side effects- some hard to bear. Not ideal for someone who is already giving up on things...
I agree that it is common to be using Parnate on the board but I guess that is because it is supposed to be an amazing drug (when it works). Like the last word. Whatever I have read about is has been only positive- even on other patient sites and in books/ literature by forward-thinking pdocs.
Also I think most people on Parnate/Nardil have tried everything else already and have not felt better so it is the next logical step before (or even after) ECT.I'm just disappointed that it didn't have a positive effect on me even though, according to my pdoc and books I totally fit the profile for this drug therapy. But then again people react so differently to meds.
I mean who would think that low dose Geodon (40-60mg) could 100% lift (my) depression and deal with fatigue, in one go (and in a few doses). People curse Geodon but I was pretty unique in my reaction, from reading up. My pdoc in the US was not surprised, but I was. I thought he was crazy for prescribing it to me as it is sedating (and that was my main complaint as always although the depression was very serious when I saw him) Geodon is an antipsychotic- who would think it has such strong antidepressant/ stimulant properties used all alone, not even as an augmenting agent...? It doesn't even have FDA approval for depression but for me it was a miracle. (OK, so I eventually developed nerve pain on it -possibly TD related- but that was a freak side-effect and a very rare reaction totally unknown to the medical community)
Sorry about the ramble.....
Truly hope you see good effects very soon. And if you decide to give it up, its not like you failed. More like the drug failed you. If you give it up, what is the next step for you? Any other meds you can try? Has your pdoc chalked out any sort of plan for you?
What is your dX and what are your main complaints? Sorry, I haven't picked that up from your posts. I am such a space-cadet.
If you've already explained that, please link me to that post if it is easier.Take care.
Get better.
Love,
D
Posted by Sunbath on October 15, 2009, at 6:09:10
In reply to Re: Parnate giving up » g_g_g_unit, posted by delna on October 14, 2009, at 23:50:50
Hi Delna,
I'm really sorry :(
Have you already tried taking both your Parnate doses earlier in the day and sleeping a bit longer?
As I already said, I really feel like crap -even on Parnate- when I don't sleep enough for a few days!
Of course, you are right, no drug is for everyone and maybe effexor would work great for you! But you'll have to wait those 14days.. So did you already try taking Parnate during the day?I'd really try adjusting your Parnate doses.. also when 20mg at once are too much for you.. did you try splitting it even more? Like try taking 10mg every 2 hours or so..Good luck to you!!!
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