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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 11 of 11. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Tepidarium on April 24, 2009, at 9:29:55
Hi,
I posted a few days ago about being worried about EMS(!).
To summarize: for two weeks, I was taking Ajinomoto Tryptopure (Doctor's Best brand). I was taking it for mood enhancement and anxiety reduction. I found it was helping for both. THe first week I took 1g a day (2x 500 mg). The second week, I took 2.5g a day ( 1x 500mg morning and 2x 1g midafternoon and at bed time). At the end of the two weeks (last Friday) I had dilated pupils, sensitivity to light, sinus, eye headaches, and body aches. I immediately stopped taking tryptophan and saw several doctors this week as I feared Serotonin Syndrome/EMS.
Anyhow, all my vitals are normal and I am relieved about that. Though, my mood has dropped since stopping tryptophan. In addition to CBT, he doctor would like me think about trying Buspar or klonopin or Xanax. I would rather stick with naturally formed compounds. Because of my adverse reaction, I'm concerned about taking Tryptophan again. I'm concerned about the safety of 5-HTP in the blood, and since I'm freaked out about Serotonin Syndrome, I'm wary of St. John's Wort. Is there any other naturally formed product I could try for mild depression, high anxiety? The only other thing that has helped somewhat has been Magnesium Taurate.
I'm thinking about seeing a holistic doctor. Any suggestions are appreciated.
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 12:22:27
In reply to I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what?, posted by Tepidarium on April 24, 2009, at 9:29:55
Being a lot like me with many fears I'd see a holistic doc is there one near you? Personally I've just started bioidentical hormones as know they are micronized and safe. Love Phillipa
Posted by Tepidarium on April 24, 2009, at 15:26:45
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what? » Tepidarium, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 12:22:27
Yep, I'm going be making an appointment with a holistic doctor to hear what he has to say.
Thanks.
Posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 21:18:33
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what?, posted by Tepidarium on April 24, 2009, at 15:26:45
You're welcome now find a good one and let me know how it goes!!! Love Ya Phillipa
Posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 22:22:49
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what? » Tepidarium, posted by Phillipa on April 24, 2009, at 21:18:33
well, various things have shown antidepressant activity, but i can't say for sure they don't affect 5ht, although i think you shouldn't worry about it, not that some bad experience isn't a good reason to avoid stuff, but there isn't really a big risk, just go slowly. inositol affects thigs downstream from 5ht, maybe try high dose of magnolia bark, i think the actives actually reduce 5ht release in some brain areas. maybe bacopa, though its usually though of more as improving cognitive function as opposed to emotional. gotu kola maybe?
-d/r
Posted by Tepidarium on April 30, 2009, at 12:15:55
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what?, posted by desolationrower on April 24, 2009, at 22:22:49
I'd like to try tryptophan again, but I wonder if even a lone 500mg capsule is too much for me as 2.5g caused the dilated pupils and eye sensitivity/blurred vision. But tryptophan did improve my mood/thoughts.
Posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2009, at 16:55:48
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what?, posted by Tepidarium on April 30, 2009, at 12:15:55
> I'd like to try tryptophan again, but I wonder if even a lone 500mg capsule is too much for me as 2.5g caused the dilated pupils and eye sensitivity/blurred vision. But tryptophan did improve my mood/thoughts.
The mydriasis (large pupils) is very likely to be a threshold effect. In other words, so long as you stay below your unique dosing threshold that causes this problem, you should be fine.
I see no reason why you ought not to try a new tryptophan trial, but at a lower dose. You could increase it more slowly than you did before, and see if you can find a dose with maximum benefit and no ocular side effects.
Lar
Posted by sowhysosad on April 30, 2009, at 18:28:21
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what? » Tepidarium, posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2009, at 16:55:48
I'm contemplating trying some tryptothan as an add-on to NADH (which is working well for me already) to avoid serotonin depletion.
However, I seem to be fairly sensitive to serotonin - had pretty nasty akathisia on only (IIRC) 100mg or so of sertraline last year.
What would be a good starting dose of tryptothan if "playing it safe" Lar?
> > I'd like to try tryptophan again, but I wonder if even a lone 500mg capsule is too much for me as 2.5g caused the dilated pupils and eye sensitivity/blurred vision. But tryptophan did improve my mood/thoughts.
>
> The mydriasis (large pupils) is very likely to be a threshold effect. In other words, so long as you stay below your unique dosing threshold that causes this problem, you should be fine.
>
> I see no reason why you ought not to try a new tryptophan trial, but at a lower dose. You could increase it more slowly than you did before, and see if you can find a dose with maximum benefit and no ocular side effects.
>
> Lar
>
Posted by Tepidarium on May 1, 2009, at 15:16:46
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what? » Tepidarium, posted by Larry Hoover on April 30, 2009, at 16:55:48
Hi Larry,
Thanks for your reply (I was hoping you'd comment on this thread). Can you explain why people with low cholesterol may have "upregulated" tryptophan conversion to0 serotonin (you mentioned this in the previous thread.
I thought taking tryptophan over 5-htp would avoid the problem with serotonin conversion in the gut as opposed to the brain.
I'm thinking about a dosage of 1 500mg capsule a day. Unless I buy powder, I think this is lowest I can dose.
Posted by Larry Hoover on May 1, 2009, at 17:30:11
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what?, posted by Tepidarium on May 1, 2009, at 15:16:46
> Hi Larry,
>
> Thanks for your reply (I was hoping you'd comment on this thread). Can you explain why people with low cholesterol may have "upregulated" tryptophan conversion to0 serotonin (you mentioned this in the previous thread.I don't recall specifically saying that. Are you referring to this: "First, gut tryprophan hydroxylase activity is regulated by an LDL (low-density lipoprotein) receptor. High activity at that receptor suppresses TRP. I'm not sure that messing around at that level would be clear-cut, as we're still very much in the dark with respect to cholesterol regulation." From: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20081204/msgs/866984.html
This effect is specific to low-density lipoprotein, not cholesterol. High LDL -->low TRP1 activity, and thus low peripheral serotonin.
> I thought taking tryptophan over 5-htp would avoid the problem with serotonin conversion in the gut as opposed to the brain.
It reduces the likelihood, but does not eliminate it.
If you want to maximize brain uptake of tryptophan, you should take it on an empty stomach. Maybe half an hour later, consume something with a high glycemic index, but low protein. This will cause a small insulin spike, which will clear the blood of most aminos, but not tryptophan. That leaves little competition for tryptophan to access the LNAAT (or sometimes called LAT), which transports it accross the blood/brain barrier.
> I'm thinking about a dosage of 1 500mg capsule a day. Unless I buy powder, I think this is lowest I can dose.
That's a good starting point. I used to use 6 g/day. I understand that your tolerance is less than mine, however.
Lar
Posted by Tepidarium on May 2, 2009, at 16:02:27
In reply to Re: I'm better (recovered from Tryptophan) now what? » Tepidarium, posted by Larry Hoover on May 1, 2009, at 17:30:11
> I don't recall specifically saying that. Are you referring to this: "First, gut tryprophan hydroxylase activity is regulated by an LDL (low-density lipoprotein) receptor. High activity at that receptor suppresses TRP. I'm not sure that messing around at that level would be clear-cut, as we're still very much in the dark with respect to cholesterol regulation." From: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20081204/msgs/866984.htmlI was referring to this message you posted:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20081006/msgs/870022.htmlThe thread you referred to is, I guess, where you were drawing your conclusions.
>
> > I thought taking tryptophan over 5-htp would avoid the problem with serotonin conversion in the gut as opposed to the brain.
>
> It reduces the likelihood, but does not eliminate it.
>
I assume I must be highly sensitive to tryptophan is 2.5 g a day could produce the pupil dilation, eye sensitivity to light, and body aches.> If you want to maximize brain uptake of tryptophan, you should take it on an empty stomach. Maybe half an hour later, consume something with a high glycemic index, but low protein. This will cause a small insulin spike, which will clear the blood of most aminos, but not tryptophan. That leaves little competition for tryptophan to access the LNAAT (or sometimes called LAT), which transports it across the blood/brain barrier.
>When I took tryptophan, I always took it on an empty stomach with a little bit of orange juice. At the time, I was not taking a separate b complex vitamin, (but I was taking a multivitamin with b complex) I wonder if the absence of extra b or niacin could have contributed to the problem?
> > I'm thinking about a dosage of 1 500mg capsule a day. Unless I buy powder, I think this is lowest I can dose.
>
> That's a good starting point. I used to use 6 g/day. I understand that your tolerance is less than mine, however.
>Do you think the symptoms I experienced were indicative of serotonin syndrome? I thought serotonin syndrome meant that there was too much serotonin in the brain, not too much serotonin being converted in the gut...
My doctor poo-pooed my symptoms and didn't think 2.5g of tryptophan could cause serotonin syndrome.
I'd like to try one 500mg capsule again, I'm just a little hesitant.
This is the end of the thread.
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