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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 13 of 13. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
When I was most responsive to MAOIs early in my treatment history, this was a sign that I would eventually respond to the drug I was taking, whether it was Parnate, Nardil, or clorgyline.
* Clorgyline is no longer available.
Would anyone like to share their experiences with MAOI drugs and insomnia and whether they eventually responded to the drug?
Unfortunately, quite a few people abort MAOI trials because of insomnia instead of being aggressive in remediating this side effect. I took two different benzodiazepines at the same time to treat the insomnia when it appeared.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2009, at 12:20:07
In reply to MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
Glad to see you're following up on this insomnia. I'm very interested hope it's okay if follow? Phillipa
Posted by myco on February 10, 2009, at 13:32:09
In reply to MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
> When I was most responsive to MAOIs early in my treatment history, this was a sign that I would eventually respond to the drug I was taking, whether it was Parnate, Nardil, or clorgyline.
>
> * Clorgyline is no longer available.
>
> Would anyone like to share their experiences with MAOI drugs and insomnia and whether they eventually responded to the drug?
>
> Unfortunately, quite a few people abort MAOI trials because of insomnia instead of being aggressive in remediating this side effect. I took two different benzodiazepines at the same time to treat the insomnia when it appeared.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - ScottHey,
I definately agree that insomnia corresponds with nardil response for me. I would sit at a dose of nardil for weeks even after I know/believed the dose had died (although this wasnt always the case - nardil has this strange kick back up again effect for me) and my sleep would improve from 2 to 4 hours a night up to 7 or 8...of course anxiety and depression would be creeping back up nicely. But during those first two good weeks of response at each dose level raised to, the insomnia was exquisite. Now 75mg is stable for me and going strong and insomnia is my shadow. Someone here, can't remember where, mentioned a pattern in their sleep with parnate (i think it was?) with 0 sleep one night then 4-5h the next...cycling back and forth. I agree with this also. Doesnt matter my sleep med now, 2-4h at best nights followed by almost none the next or two days later...in a cycle for this my effective dose.
Im not sure how much this helps but im not that knowledgeable with biochem to help make sense of this to your level. I'm just very intune with my own mannerisms and body.myco
Posted by Roslynn on February 10, 2009, at 18:30:03
In reply to MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
Hi,
I had insomnia when I started EMSAM. The drug eventually worked for me, but then the effect faded. Also, the skin reaction was too much to continue with the med.
> When I was most responsive to MAOIs early in my treatment history, this was a sign that I would eventually respond to the drug I was taking, whether it was Parnate, Nardil, or clorgyline.
>
> * Clorgyline is no longer available.
>
> Would anyone like to share their experiences with MAOI drugs and insomnia and whether they eventually responded to the drug?
>
> Unfortunately, quite a few people abort MAOI trials because of insomnia instead of being aggressive in remediating this side effect. I took two different benzodiazepines at the same time to treat the insomnia when it appeared.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - Scott
Posted by Phillipa on February 10, 2009, at 20:50:56
In reply to MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
These results are strange? Still say thread??? Love Phillipa
Posted by JadeKelly on February 11, 2009, at 2:13:49
In reply to MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by SLS on February 10, 2009, at 11:22:58
> When I was most responsive to MAOIs early in my treatment history, this was a sign that I would eventually respond to the drug I was taking, whether it was Parnate, Nardil, or clorgyline.
>
> * Clorgyline is no longer available.
>
> Would anyone like to share their experiences with MAOI drugs and insomnia and whether they eventually responded to the drug?
>
> Unfortunately, quite a few people abort MAOI trials because of insomnia instead of being aggressive in remediating this side effect. I took two different benzodiazepines at the same time to treat the insomnia when it appeared.
>
> Thanks.
>
>
> - ScottYes, I would like to like to share. First, to be fair, I would not have quit my trial with Parnate if I had Insomnia every night and puked every day, so I may be a little biased.
For me, insomnia was pretty bad most of the time in the beggining, I did find some relief when I took 2-3mg Klonopin plus 6mg melatonin. I'd have periods of total relief. Then at dose time it would come back (its 2:53am where I am, My pDoc increased my dose to 80mgP and Ritalin to 40mg.)
The funny thing is tho, once that original insomnia wears off, I sleep like a baby, like I can't wait to climb in bed and dose off. It almost then has the opposite effect. Its excellent because I have a buzy day with tons of energy, then just at the right time I'm closing my eyes and can't wait for sleep.Parnate is a med, in my experience, that s/e's almost diappear the higher you go. I'm at 80mg and I have no BP issues, insomnia with dose changes is it.
I don't mean to judge anyone, but if you are hyperfocused on side effects, IMHO you probably don't need an MAOI.
So in answer to your question, I've been on Parnate for 3 months, I'm at a relatively high dose, and couldn't be happier. It was not always easy, i probably set a record for how long to respond to a med, But I'M THERE. PARNATE SAVED ME~Jade
Posted by diego on February 12, 2009, at 17:46:44
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response? » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on February 11, 2009, at 2:13:49
I'm on just 20 mg/day for now and the insomnia is really bothersome.
7 or 8 years ago I was on 30 mg/day for quite a few years and insomnia was never a problem that I remember.
Maybe getting older has something to do with it? I'm much more sensitive to caffeine now, too.
At any rate, it's just as wonderfully effective for me now as it was the last time I took it.
Posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:35:31
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response? » SLS, posted by JadeKelly on February 11, 2009, at 2:13:49
MAO levels vary by level of depression. theres not been much study of proper dosing of MAOIs, just some clinician guesses. insomnia means that if nothing else you at least are taking enough that its affecting monoamine levels. for as much as docs like increasing doses of drug that don't have evidence for benfits of increased dose, or evidence that it doens't help, they sure don't like giving effective dosages of maois.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 12:45:51
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:35:31
> MAO levels vary by level of depression. theres not been much study of proper dosing of MAOIs, just some clinician guesses. insomnia means that if nothing else you at least are taking enough that its affecting monoamine levels. for as much as docs like increasing doses of drug that don't have evidence for benfits of increased dose, or evidence that it doens't help, they sure don't like giving effective dosages of maois.
>
> -d/r
What genre this time? I thought you were MIA ;-)What dose are you, doing well on that? Insomnia?
~Jade
Posted by myco on February 16, 2009, at 19:37:56
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by desolationrower on February 16, 2009, at 3:35:31
Hi d/r,
If I had a good response to nardil at 45 the 60 then 75 (each a solid 2 week wow what a difference response that slowly faded) then stabilized for weeks on 75 and is now fading again, should I continue to raise or is the constant failure after awhile some other indication? 75 is producing 'apathy' (possibly just lack of sleep though) and a slow increase in anxiety, muscle tension and dep day by day, very subtle though. Seems like I can continue to raise with good efficacy for a limited time, increased sides that get stranger and stranger as I move up, but I'm not sure if its worth it? Looking for a strategy to save this med (get it back to where it was).
thnx
> MAO levels vary by level of depression. theres not been much study of proper dosing of MAOIs, just some clinician guesses. insomnia means that if nothing else you at least are taking enough that its affecting monoamine levels. for as much as docs like increasing doses of drug that don't have evidence for benfits of increased dose, or evidence that it doens't help, they sure don't like giving effective dosages of maois.
>
> -d/r
Posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 3:20:11
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response? » desolationrower, posted by myco on February 16, 2009, at 19:37:56
> Hi d/r,
>
> If I had a good response to nardil at 45 the 60 then 75 (each a solid 2 week wow what a difference response that slowly faded) then stabilized for weeks on 75 and is now fading again, should I continue to raise or is the constant failure after awhile some other indication? 75 is producing 'apathy' (possibly just lack of sleep though) and a slow increase in anxiety, muscle tension and dep day by day, very subtle though. Seems like I can continue to raise with good efficacy for a limited time, increased sides that get stranger and stranger as I move up, but I'm not sure if its worth it? Looking for a strategy to save this med (get it back to where it was).
>
> thnx
>well there are two options, either you are chasing the dragon, or you havent' reached an effective dose. the med should be making the depression go away so you can have normal feelings appropriate to your life; it shouldn't be 'making you feel good.' its hard to know the difference, maybe something to talk about next session you ahve. are the side effects you mentioned the same as your experience of depression? deciding if its the same or new problems can be helpful to knowing which side you are on. i'd make sure to get the sleep improved, are you taking something for that? that should be the first thing.
-d/r
Posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 3:28:24
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response? » desolationrower, posted by JadeKelly on February 16, 2009, at 12:45:51
>
> What genre this time? I thought you were MIA ;-)
>
> What dose are you, doing well on that? Insomnia?
>
> ~Jade
>girl i don't know what you mean by 'what genre', but yeah MIA is awesome, she hasn't had a new album but this Esau Mwamwaya & Radioclit album is kinda similar of the musci i'v been on recently. haven't really been on any dose lately, from a combination of being short on $ and forgetting to reorder, oops.
-d/r
Posted by JadeKelly on February 17, 2009, at 15:43:36
In reply to Re: MAOI - Is insomnia a good sign of future response?, posted by desolationrower on February 17, 2009, at 3:28:24
> girl i don't know what you mean by 'what genre', but yeah MIA is awesome, she hasn't had a new album but this Esau Mwamwaya & Radioclit album is kinda similar of the musci i'v been on recently. haven't really been on any dose lately, from a combination of being short on $ and forgetting to reorder, oops.
>
> -d/rBy genre, I meant what kind of books are you reading.
By MIA I meant I thought you were "missing in action"
"http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OfYdlAPI8S4"
Yeah, I like that too.
Hope your doing okay without the Parnate.
And I must need glasses cause I know you DID NOT just call me girl >:-(
~Jade
This is the end of the thread.
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