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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ChrisK on April 20, 2000, at 8:07:39
In reply to Re: Provigil, Adrafinal, and Amisulpride, posted by AndrewB on April 19, 2000, at 13:22:44
I went to my pdoc yesterday loaded with info on Adrafinil and others because I still suffer from the Anhedonia that seems to be the last part of Depression that escapes me. My pdoc gave me a prescription for Monafidil to replace my Adderall. I'm not expecting the magic potion but do hope that the new meds will get me over the "happy hump" that I seem to be stuck on. I still hope that there is something that will give me a certain happiness.
At least for now, I have some hope.
Thanks for all of the info during the last month,
Chris K
Posted by Ant-Rock on April 20, 2000, at 8:17:46
In reply to Re: Provigil, Adraf...to:AndrewB, posted by AndrewB on April 20, 2000, at 7:41:08
Andrew,
I really don't notice any difference on the amisulpride. I still take 50mg/day, but i did try 100/day for a week w/no changes. I feel the Ritalin is helping the most with mood, I'm upping to 15mgRitalin today and if I still only get partial response, can go to 20mg/day.
Anyway I believe large component of my fatigue is due to my low cortisol levels(mild adrenal insufficiency). I've found lots of good info regarding low-dose cortisone therapy for my condition. Treatment is not well understood by most doctors, but is very beneficial and SAFE at physiological doses.
I believe this is my best bet. Low cortisol liked to fatigue, brain fog, depression, multiple allergies. I qualify for all these.(Lucky me!)
Anyway, thank you again for your quick reply Andrew, I'll keep you posted.
Take care,
Anthony
Posted by AndrewB on April 20, 2000, at 9:19:51
In reply to Re: Provigil, Adraf...to:AndrewB, posted by Ant-Rock on April 20, 2000, at 8:17:46
Anthony,
I'll keep an eye out for hydrocortisone tablets. Thanks for the amisulpride update. Amineptine is $3.85 for 10 pills.
Posted by KarenB on April 20, 2000, at 10:53:43
In reply to Re: Provigil, Adraf...to:AndrewB, posted by AndrewB on April 20, 2000, at 7:41:08
Andrew!
You are taking amineptine with amisulpiride, correct? So, how is that combo working for you? As you know, I think amineptine plus sulpiride is the bomb. Please let me know - I am very interested in that particular combination. I hope it works as well for you as the other did for me. If so, you should be out mountain climbing in no time.
Your friend in the pursuit of wellness,
Karen
Posted by AndrewB on April 20, 2000, at 11:17:06
In reply to Re: AndrewB - amineptine/amisulpiride, posted by KarenB on April 20, 2000, at 10:53:43
> Karen,Karen, I was inspired by you to try amineptine again, but this time with
amisulpride. Whereas side effects only allowed me to take a suboptimal dose of
amineptine before when I was taking it alone, now in combo with amisulpride I
am able to take a full dose. I am merely using an old supply I had. But I have
been assured by the Indian company that supplies are assured for now at least.
From all that I have read, sulpiride and amisulpride are very, very similar. And
yes, my energy is way up there right now, along with improved drive and social
confidence. If this effect lasts for 3 weeks I will order more amineptine.
Posted by DC on April 20, 2000, at 18:31:06
In reply to Re: AndrewB - amineptine/amisulpiride, posted by AndrewB on April 20, 2000, at 11:17:06
Could someone tell me the difference if any between mirapex and amisulpride? Any reason to prefer the latter over the former? Thanks, Dwight
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 21, 2000, at 10:40:56
In reply to Re: JohnL - answers, posted by KarenB on April 21, 2000, at 9:50:53
> Whoever is responsible for it's discontinuation...well let's just say I'd like five minutes with them. It was used in Europe for decades, with great results for thousands. If "potential for abuse" is a reason to stop a great medication, why is valium still around - and a host of others? Go figure. Can you tell I'm a little fired up about this?
You took the words right out of my keyboard.I bet the International Olympic Committee was responsible for this.
:-)
:-(
>:-<- Scott
Posted by AndrewB on April 21, 2000, at 11:12:50
In reply to Mirapex vs. amisulpride, posted by DC on April 20, 2000, at 18:31:06
> Could someone tell me the difference if any between mirapex and amisulpride? Any reason to prefer the latter over the former? Thanks, Dwight
Dwight,
Without getting into details, both meds act pretty much on the same dopamine receptors in the brain but they go about it different ways. Choosing between the two drugs can be based on several criteria. Let's compare:
Amisulpride has been extensively studied for depression and is well proven. There are only 3 or 4 small studies that have been done on Mirapex for treating depression but the results of the studies were promising.
Amisulpride is commonly used for depression in parts of Europe. Mirapex, at the present time, is only rarely used for depression.
Amisulpride must be ordered from overseas (with or without a prescription) while Mirapex is available in the US. I have produced an information piece on amisulpride that can be shown to one's psych. in order to obtain a prescription. Email me at [email protected] and I will send it.
Amisulpride costs about 60 cents per dose while Mirapex costs usually over a $1.50/dose. But Mirapex's cost, being available in the US, may be covered in part by insurence.
Amisulpride very rarely has side effects in men but 5% to 10% of women using amisulpride will quit using it due to endricrinological side effects like missed menses and breast swelling. Mirapex will cause nausea and headaches at first, sometimes severe, but these side effects will pass.
AndrewB
Posted by michael on April 21, 2000, at 11:30:17
In reply to Re: JohnL - answers, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 21, 2000, at 10:40:56
> > Whoever is responsible for it's discontinuation...well let's just say I'd like five minutes with them. It was used in Europe for decades, with great results for thousands. If "potential for abuse" is a reason to stop a great medication, why is valium still around - and a host of others? Go figure. Can you tell I'm a little fired up about this?
>
>
> You took the words right out of my keyboard.
>
> I bet the International Olympic Committee was responsible for this.
> :-)
> :-(
> >:-
> - ScottHey everyone -
Not to be too negative, but I have yet to find or hear that Amineptine is going to continue to be mfg'd in the future. I would love to hear otherwise - but as of yet, I'm skeptical.
I know that it can still be purchased from abroad... But the one source that I know of has never replied to my enquiries regarding the future availability/mfg of amineptine. And previously they had replied to my correspondences w/in 24 hours...
Don't get me wrong, I hope it still will be available - I'd like to try it myself. But as JohnL pointed out, I don't want to get started with it just to have the rug pulled out from under me, especially if it were to help... I'm just afraid that this is just another case of running down the current stock - and then we're all out of luck.
So I guess what I want to know, is does anybody KNOW if it's still MANUFACTURED?
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 21, 2000, at 13:20:36
In reply to Re: Mirapex vs. amisulpride, posted by AndrewB on April 21, 2000, at 11:12:50
> ...5% to 10% of women using amisulpride will quit using it due to endricrinological side effects like missed menses and breast swelling.
I wonder if these side effects appear as frequently when amisulpride is used at the lower dosages prescribed to treat depression. I believe that the increased secretion of prolactin that is responsible for them is the result of postsynaptic DA receptor blockade. Prolactin secretion is inhibited by postsynaptic DA agonists, such as Mirapex. Perhaps a combination of these two drugs, in addition to possibly effecting a synergism in promoting an antidepressant response, will reduce the potential for these neuroendocrine effects.
- Scott
Posted by KarenB on April 21, 2000, at 14:39:24
In reply to Re: Mirapex vs. amisulpride, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 21, 2000, at 13:20:36
> > ...5% to 10% of women using amisulpride will quit using it due to endricrinological side effects like missed menses and breast swelling.
Missed menses and breast swelling are "side effects?" Well, sign me up:)
K
Posted by AndrewB on April 21, 2000, at 15:04:26
In reply to Re: Mirapex vs. amisulpride, posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 21, 2000, at 13:20:36
Scott,
You would think that amisulpride at low doses might might decrease prolactin but I have double checked on this point and amisulpride raises prolactin levels, especially in women, at both lwer and higher doses. This can result in missed menses and breast swelling, even lactation. Sulpiride is very similar to amisulpride and it caused KarenB to miss her menses. The exact percentage of women who experience these endrocrinological effects when taking amisulpride in low doses is hard to say exactly. According to depression studies though, it seems around 5% of women stop amisulpride due to this effect, maybe as high as 10%. Since Mirapex raises prolactin levels it may indeed counter this effect. Good point Scott.
AndrewB
Posted by Ant-Rock on April 21, 2000, at 16:53:51
In reply to Re: Andrew...questions., posted by JohnL on April 21, 2000, at 2:28:52
Hey John,
Please don't take this the wrong way, but I thought you were doing really well on your new found med combo. Why the interest in amineptine?
It's just that I was really happy to read some good news for a change, and I hope this doesn't mean meds are no longer working as well.Hoping for the best,
Anthony
Posted by anita on April 27, 2000, at 23:43:33
In reply to Re: Mirapex vs. amisulpride, posted by AndrewB on April 21, 2000, at 15:04:26
Hi,
Just thought I'd mention that on the lowest dose of amisulpride I had missed menses and weight gain, within a month. The weight gain may be a female thing, as I haven't heard any male users complain of it.
anita
Posted by AndrewB on April 28, 2000, at 7:24:59
In reply to Re: amisulpride + weight gain, posted by anita on April 27, 2000, at 23:43:33
Hello again Anita,
Thanks for the info. I'd love to hear more. Did you have any other side effects. In what ways, if any, have you been helped by amisulpride. Are you going to keep taking it. Where did you get it from and how was the service. Hope you don't mind all the questions.
Thanks for sharing your experience,
AndrewB
Posted by Scott L. Schofield on April 28, 2000, at 21:40:23
In reply to Re: amisulpride + weight gain, posted by anita on April 27, 2000, at 23:43:33
Anita,
What dosage are you taking?
- Scott
> Hi,
>
> Just thought I'd mention that on the lowest dose of amisulpride I had missed menses and weight gain, within a month. The weight gain may be a female thing, as I haven't heard any male users complain of it.
>
> anita
Posted by Ben J. on July 15, 2001, at 22:22:44
In reply to Re: Prozac... provigil.....JOHN!, posted by elise on April 15, 2000, at 17:05:45
I'm on 20-40 mg. of Prozac (depending upon my mood). I've added 500 mg. of neurontin with a slight benefit. I am pretty calm but have no enjoyment of life. I sense that "normal" life is self-sustaining and intense. Certainly it should be at least enjoyable without the madness. I am open to trying new things. I sense that I need to re-awaken my natural sense of life. I'm sure that the term anhedonism applies to me.Would tapering off the Prozac and going on 300 to 600 mg. of Adrafinil make sense?
Posted by AMenz on July 17, 2001, at 14:18:48
In reply to Adrafinil, posted by Ben J. on July 15, 2001, at 22:22:44
Is adrafinil indicated in case of adult ADD which seems very connected to lack of arousal, mental clarity, etc which a stimulant should help?
> I'm on 20-40 mg. of Prozac (depending upon my mood). I've added 500 mg. of neurontin with a slight benefit. I am pretty calm but have no enjoyment of life. I sense that "normal" life is self-sustaining and intense. Certainly it should be at least enjoyable without the madness. I am open to trying new things. I sense that I need to re-awaken my natural sense of life. I'm sure that the term anhedonism applies to me.Would tapering off the Prozac and going on 300 to 600 mg. of Adrafinil make sense?
Posted by JohnL on July 18, 2001, at 17:56:15
In reply to Adrafinil, posted by Ben J. on July 15, 2001, at 22:22:44
> I'm on 20-40 mg. of Prozac (depending upon my mood). I've added 500 mg. of neurontin with a slight benefit. I am pretty calm but have no enjoyment of life. I sense that "normal" life is self-sustaining and intense. Certainly it should be at least enjoyable without the madness. I am open to trying new things. I sense that I need to re-awaken my natural sense of life. I'm sure that the term anhedonism applies to me.Would tapering off the Prozac and going on 300 to 600 mg. of Adrafinil make sense?
Hi,
In my own personal trials and errors, Prozac and Adrafinil combine nicely. Instead of taking just one or the other, you might consider taking both. Since you are already on Prozac, it would be easy to simply add Adrafinil to it.For me, 20mg Prozac is ok. Just ok. 300mg Adrafinil is ok. Just ok. The two together are great, for me. They took my longstanding anhedonia and smashed it to smithereens.
If anhedonia is a primary symptom, Neurontin could make it worse. Neurontin tends to calm things down and numb things down. Not exactly what you want for anhedonia. I like Prozac+Adrafinil. I also take 5mg Zyprexa for sleep, and it also plays a role in eliminating anhedonia from my life.
John
Posted by LyndaK on July 19, 2001, at 2:16:22
In reply to Re: Info on my new wonderdrug....Adrafinil., posted by JohnL on January 21, 2001, at 4:55:55
Personally I like Adrafinil, but hated Modafinil.I'm currently on Zoloft 150mg per day. I've been on many other meds. It seems to work the best for my depression. It has many side-effects that I HATE. I guess I've decided that the side-effects are the lesser of the two evils (side effects vs. depression). One of the dysfunctional side effects is poor concentration / inability to focus. I've been taking Aricept with it to try to counteract this. It helps some, but not enough. I've tried Wellbutrin in combination with Zoloft -- I LOVE how Wellbutrin clears my mind but it creates insomnia and irritability. I am now trying Monafidil (only on the third day). I'm not sure, but I think it may be making me irritable as well. What was your experience with Monafidil? What did you hate about it?
LyndaK
Posted by JohnL on July 19, 2001, at 16:16:36
In reply to Re: Info on my new wonderdrug....Adrafinil. » JohnL, posted by LyndaK on July 19, 2001, at 2:16:22
>
> Personally I like Adrafinil, but hated Modafinil.
>
> I'm currently on Zoloft 150mg per day. I've been on many other meds. It seems to work the best for my depression. It has many side-effects that I HATE. I guess I've decided that the side-effects are the lesser of the two evils (side effects vs. depression). One of the dysfunctional side effects is poor concentration / inability to focus. I've been taking Aricept with it to try to counteract this. It helps some, but not enough. I've tried Wellbutrin in combination with Zoloft -- I LOVE how Wellbutrin clears my mind but it creates insomnia and irritability. I am now trying Monafidil (only on the third day). I'm not sure, but I think it may be making me irritable as well. What was your experience with Monafidil? What did you hate about it?
>
> LyndaKHi Lynda,
Modafinil was so weird with me it's hard to explain. At first it gave me good pep and I liked it. But that only lasted a few hours. Another dose didn't quite get me back to that same good feeling. In customary psychiatric fashion, the obvious thing to do was raise the dose, since I was on a very low dose anyway. Again, I felt that pep, and again it faded fast. It gave me an upset stomach. But the worst thing was the exhaustion it caused. I would have a burst of energy shortly after taking my dose, but then an extreme, and I mean extreme, exhaustion set in. I could hardly walk I felt so tired. I just wanted to collapse and lay on the floor. After about a week of this I realized it was probably not going to go away. And I also started feeling like I was getting addicted to something. Even though it made me feel like crap, for some strange reason I craved another dose. Very weird. When I did finally throw in the towel, withdrawing from it felt exactly like withdrawing from a real addiction. It was awful.It has worked well though for some other people. Yet for others I have heard similar experiences to what I felt. I think Modafinil is one of those drugs that either works great or works horrible. I found Adrafinil to be so much better. But unlike Modafinil, Adrafinil's effects take time, more like an antidepressant. I felt good on Adrafinil almost immediately, then it kind of faded for a week or so, almost like it was a placebo or something, but then over the next few weeks it continually got better and better. I must admit though that by itself it was not enough. I require a combo of Prozac+Adrafinil+Zyprexa to get the job completely done. I wouldn't give up any one of these drugs if someone paid me a million dollars to do so.
Anyway, I hope it goes well for you. Mileage varies dramatically. One person's nightmare is another person's magic.
John
Posted by Ben J. on July 19, 2001, at 21:27:51
In reply to Re:....Adrafinil..Lynda, posted by JohnL on July 19, 2001, at 16:16:36
Have heard that Prozac promotes anhedonia. Any clarification?
How long did the adrafinil take to work for you? I am tempted stay off Prozac unless doing so is purely foolish.
Posted by Ben J. on July 19, 2001, at 21:28:12
In reply to Re: Adrafinil, posted by JohnL on July 18, 2001, at 17:56:15
Have heard that Prozac promotes anhedonia. Any clarification?
How long did the adrafinil take to work for you? I am tempted stay off Prozac unless doing so is purely foolish.
Posted by LyndaK on July 20, 2001, at 2:33:52
In reply to Re:....Adrafinil..Lynda, posted by JohnL on July 19, 2001, at 16:16:36
> >
> > Personally I like Adrafinil, but hated Modafinil.
> >
> > I'm currently on Zoloft 150mg per day. I've been on many other meds. It seems to work the best for my depression. It has many side-effects that I HATE. I guess I've decided that the side-effects are the lesser of the two evils (side effects vs. depression). One of the dysfunctional side effects is poor concentration / inability to focus. I've been taking Aricept with it to try to counteract this. It helps some, but not enough. I've tried Wellbutrin in combination with Zoloft -- I LOVE how Wellbutrin clears my mind but it creates insomnia and irritability. I am now trying Monafidil (only on the third day). I'm not sure, but I think it may be making me irritable as well. What was your experience with Monafidil? What did you hate about it?
> >
> > LyndaK
>
> Hi Lynda,
> Modafinil was so weird with me it's hard to explain. At first it gave me good pep and I liked it. But that only lasted a few hours. Another dose didn't quite get me back to that same good feeling. In customary psychiatric fashion, the obvious thing to do was raise the dose, since I was on a very low dose anyway. Again, I felt that pep, and again it faded fast. It gave me an upset stomach. But the worst thing was the exhaustion it caused. I would have a burst of energy shortly after taking my dose, but then an extreme, and I mean extreme, exhaustion set in. I could hardly walk I felt so tired. I just wanted to collapse and lay on the floor. After about a week of this I realized it was probably not going to go away. And I also started feeling like I was getting addicted to something. Even though it made me feel like crap, for some strange reason I craved another dose. Very weird. When I did finally throw in the towel, withdrawing from it felt exactly like withdrawing from a real addiction. It was awful.
>
> It has worked well though for some other people. Yet for others I have heard similar experiences to what I felt. I think Modafinil is one of those drugs that either works great or works horrible. I found Adrafinil to be so much better. But unlike Modafinil, Adrafinil's effects take time, more like an antidepressant. I felt good on Adrafinil almost immediately, then it kind of faded for a week or so, almost like it was a placebo or something, but then over the next few weeks it continually got better and better. I must admit though that by itself it was not enough. I require a combo of Prozac+Adrafinil+Zyprexa to get the job completely done. I wouldn't give up any one of these drugs if someone paid me a million dollars to do so.
>
> Anyway, I hope it goes well for you. Mileage varies dramatically. One person's nightmare is another person's magic.
> John
Thankyou, John, for your feedback. I'll see how I do on this, but I like going into it with a little more information about possible side-effects.
Take Care.
Lynda
Posted by KarenRB53 on October 27, 2008, at 17:14:23
In reply to Info on my new wonderdrug....Adrafinil., posted by JohnL on April 14, 2000, at 4:26:06
> I can't seem to access my previous post on Adrafinil and Amisulpride. To make a long story short, Adrafinil has been wonderful at treating my longstanding stubborn anhedonia. Finally something that works! Yes!!
>
> It's hard to find much information on Adrafinil. But the stuff I did find--posted below--I can say from personal experience is completely true. Everything this literature says about Adrafinil is absolutely true and accurate. The drug is everything the literature says it is. What a wonderful medication! Adrafinil...SALUTE!!!
>
>
> ADRAFINIL: What is; (a.k.a. Olmifon) (Description & information below)
> NOTE:not to be confused with "Anafranil (a.k.a. clomipramine)" the Antidepressant.
>
> Adrafinil provides alertness in most without the feeling often felt with stimulants that usually are prescribed for a person with
> narcolepsy. Such as amphetamines etc. Also the possibility of tolerance is low with its continued use. There is however a
> need for certain Liver function tests
> on a regular basis with its continued use. Normally the same types of required testing as with the medication " cylert " which is
> commonly prescribed in the USA. It is also used in certain parts europe as a "antidepressant". It is the combination of
> Adrafinil's releasing stimulantive arousal effect(s), and its antidepressant effects that some doctors in europe recommend
> Adrafinil over its newer form of Modafinil. There have been studies done in the United States "measuring depression in
> individuals with sleep disorders",. In one study it was suggested that the
> "rate of narcolepsy and depression is estimated to be between 30-52%".
>
>
> ADRAFINIL (Olmifon)
>
> Rapidly restores vigilance and alertness in older people and the physically and mentally tired. Has a powerful
> antidepressant action far superior to that of fluoxetine (Prozac) and clomipramine (Anafranil) and is without any serious
> side effects. Adrafinil restores your powers of concentration, memory and intellectual function. When administered to
> older people who have lost interest in life, adrafinil makes them want to take part in life again and they find that they
> have renewed energy and vigor. Adrafinil may be correctly described as an anti-aging drug because it directly combats
> degeneration in the part of the brain that allows you to take pleasure in life. Elderly people very often have disturbed
> sleep patterns and take many naps during the day. Adrafinil restores a youthful sleep/wake cycle of full alertness in the
> daytime and deep restorative sleep at night. After several weeks of treatment with Adrafinil daytime sleepiness
> disappears, interest in intellectual activity is restored and depression lifts. It is very important to note that this improved
> quality of alertness is NOT accompanied with mental excitation and insomnia as occurs with amphetamine or caffeine.
> The correct dosage is 300 to 600 mg per day. The dosage can be adjusted according to response. Remember it takes
> three weeks for all the effects of Adrafinil to become apparent. Do not use Adrafinil if you have any type of kidney or liver
> problem or if you suffer from epilepsy.
>
> Where all other drugs have failed, Adrafinil has quickly become the star my show. I can't say enough good about it. JohnL
>
>This is such an old post but hopefully you'll read it. Wondering if you're still taking the Adrafinil and if its still working as well for you? I'm on Prozac which is great for depression but all I do is sit on the couch.
Thanks
This is the end of the thread.
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