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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on July 23, 2006, at 10:48:43
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 10:18:08
> But like I said my worry is that rage could be part of my cycle..is that possible?
So far, you really haven't described what your illness looked like before you were given medication, so it is difficult to speculate.
> I pretty much went from hypo symptoms to rage and anger after Cymbalta withdrawal.
What are hypo symptoms?
> I have also heard that Lamictal can cause rapid cycling, hypomania..so I am just not sure.
Lamictal is considered to be one of the few drugs that can prevent rapid cycling.
The problem is this: Psychotropic drugs are unpredictable. Lamictal has been known to induce mania. Perhaps it has provoked some mood lability for you throughout the day that may be headed in this direction. However, I doubt it has produced actual ultradian rapid cyclicity.
I really don't know how to advise you at this point. I think you need to be screened for mania and determine whether or not it makes sense to discontinue Lamictal - at least temporarily.
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on July 23, 2006, at 12:20:07
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by SLS on July 23, 2006, at 10:48:43
Not to discredit you but boy I could use a little hypomania about now. I too just started lamictal at l2.5 yes low dose but it was recommended. So far so good. And I'm now on 25mg and taking my time going up while cutting down my luvox . Cutting it in half almost daily. Down to 50mg from l50mg a week ago. But it's the lamictal being used as an antidepressant. And I take it at night and sleep with 20mg of valium. Love Phillipa
Posted by fuchsia on July 24, 2006, at 7:09:23
In reply to Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycling?, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 9:34:03
HEART
I agree totally with all that Scott said. My personal bias would be towards continuing with the Lamictal as I am bipolar II and it has helped so much in ridding me of tumultuous mood states that included free-floating anger. As for antidepressants, going on them and off them had a strong tendency for provoking those sort of symptoms.
But, as Scott said, these things are very unpredictable.
fuchsia
Posted by HEART~ on July 24, 2006, at 8:46:58
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » HEART~, posted by fuchsia on July 24, 2006, at 7:09:23
> HEART
>
> I agree totally with all that Scott said. My personal bias would be towards continuing with the Lamictal as I am bipolar II and it has helped so much in ridding me of tumultuous mood states that included free-floating anger. As for antidepressants, going on them and off them had a strong tendency for provoking those sort of symptoms.
>
> But, as Scott said, these things are very unpredictable.
>
> fuchsiaHi. Thanks alot for the responses everyone. Yes the rage seems to be attributed to the AD withdrawal..I am thinking.. How messed up is that? Anyhow did anyone find Lamictal to keep them awake at night? I have only slept about 4hours the past 4 nights. Maybe it is too stimulating for me. I don't have a racing mind or over activity at night I just lay in bed. Do get abit anxious but I worry alot too. I need sleep so bad right now. Could this be a sign that I am headed into a state of mania or possibly psychosis? Especially since I just expereinced a period of rage which but we are all thinking was a result of AD withdrawal. I don't know what to think about the Lamictal. Send some input. Need sleep so bad.
HEART~
>
>
Posted by octopusprime on July 24, 2006, at 21:56:32
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by HEART~ on July 24, 2006, at 8:46:58
lamictal didn't help me sleep until i got up to the full 200 mg. my pdoc augmented with klonopin. i would suggest getting something similar to help you sleep, as your lack of sleep may be feeding your irritability.
Posted by MoparFan91 on July 26, 2006, at 22:19:04
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 10:18:08
> > Hey Scott,
> Thanks for the reply. The AD I withdrew and think am still withdrawing from is awful Cymbalta. Don't even get me started on this drug. It has been a complete hell with this drug.. Anyhow my concern and focus now is the Lamictal.
> To answer I have never had problems with anger and rage till withdrawing from this drug, it actually began the next day I stopped the last 20mg...I also began Lamictal that night because I needed to begin it badly. Oh I only started Lamictal at 12.5mgs..a low low dose soooo hmm perhaps Lamictal is not responsible..Ok this is getting into some perspective now. But like I said my worry is that rage could be part of my cycle..is that possible? I pretty much went from hypo symptoms to rage and anger after Cymbalta withdrawal. I have also heard that Lamictal can cause rapid cycling, hypomania..so I am just not sure.
>
>
>I had the same issues with Lexapro (aka Lexacoaster in my case).
I took 40mg of that drug. It kept taking me from the Hell to the Mountains of the Moon. While I was taking the drug, I was going from extreme high to extreme low. The classic full blown manic states & phases I had on the drug were 'not' a normal part of my initial mood disorder. My bipolar spectrum disorder pretty much involves recurrent major depressive episodes and mixed states of anxiety, agitation, high nrg, and depression.
I stopped the 40mg of Lexacoaster without a taper. I had 5 days of physical withdrawals that were quite unpleasant but weren't the worst in the world. After that, I had a ~2 week state of feeling good, motivated, mild euphoric (mid-grade hypomanic state). After that, I began sinking down into "Die schwarze Zone" (The Black Zone) again. The depression then was 10x worse than ever, like yours. I was in mixed rage and black depression. Metaphorically, I was in Hell.
Basically, that had been another delayed withdrawal I was going through. This was the 4th week after I had stopped the Lexacoaster.
I bought Taurine and started taking 6 grams per day in 3 div. doses, and it helped me to ascend back up to Earth.
I was put on the Lexacoaster in addition to Lamictal and Topamax, both of which were doing ok for my mood, in order to treat residual OCD problems.
Posted by blippitybloo on August 12, 2006, at 19:46:52
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » HEART~, posted by MoparFan91 on July 26, 2006, at 22:19:04
I recently increased my Lamictal from 50 mg to 75 mg and am experiencing extreme rage reactions. They come from out of nowhere. This is NOT normal for me. There is no other drug to attribute this to. It is so severe I am considering an abrupt discontinuance from Lamictal.
I have had a hard time reaching a therapeutic dose. I started *six months ago* with 12.5 mg, then went to 25 mg; but every time I tried to increase the dosage (I've had to do some very small dose increases) I would have extreme sleepiness or other side major effects versus mildly annoying ones.
And now it's rage. I am only on my 5th day at 75 mg, up from 50 mg -- but the rage thing is out of control and I feel I need to stop it IMMEDIATELY.
Do not know what I am going to do yet, but extreme agitation and rage; I got online tonight specifically to see if I could find anyone else with the same problem.
I am bipolar, along with additional problems with anxiety, agoraphobia and panic attacks.
Posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 20:37:18
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by blippitybloo on August 12, 2006, at 19:46:52
You just triggered what I did and felt on lamictal. I too got up to 50mg and don't get angry stuff it inside. Have anxiety and agoraphobia also. With my husband outside the grocery I was angry at him for no reason had a plastic tea bottle in my hand, turned around and smashed it against the columm on the store and yelled at him. I never do these things. And I was mad at him the whole time I was on it. I discontinued due to excess salivation very unpleasant. Love Phillipa
Posted by blippitybloo on August 13, 2006, at 0:06:03
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » blippitybloo, posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 20:37:18
Thank you for saying someone else has experienced the rage / irritability / aggression side effect with Lamictal so I don't think I'm going crazy.
Today alone I have done the following:
1. Screamed at my 16-1/2-year-old cat for not wanting to eat her food (normal for her and I never usually get upset; I am very patient with her)
2. Screamed at my 14-year-old cat for a (normal for him) problem with the litter box (which I usually do not ever get upset about; I am very patient with him)
3. Locked my 7-year-old cat in a room because she was meowing too much (!)
4. Cursed extremely in my yard over a small issue that I raised to extreme levels and apparently I did not care who heard me, even the young children next door
5. Left a message for my insurance company peppered with curse words including the F word; something I would never do
6. Tore open a carton of frozen vegetables violently because I could not get them open faster; then stabbed them violently with a fork twice just to "pierce" them; but this wasn't a normal dinner preparation; in fact the package was so mutilated I kept it as something to show my doctor.
None of these things I would normally have done. I am leaving out a few people I got pissed off at on the phone today.
I don't want to disturb my doctor on the weekend, but I may make the decision to go to 50mg as I do not want to put my cats in danger.
I may even skip my dosage entirely tonight.
The benefits of Lamictal are that the other day, my first two days on 75 mg I felt like cleaning out my closets, the first time in 7 years. For two days I felt up to doing that. This was a *major* improvement for me.
Other benefits are I have lost a bit of weight, although it seems to be coming back due to suddenly unexplainable carb/sugar cravings. Originally on Lamictal I had no appetite, but now my appetite appears to bounce around to the extreme; sometimes I am very hungry and sometimes not at all.
Also for some reason Lamictal has partially relieved the nasal congestion I experience with the Seroquel I take. (Seroquel causes both weight gain and nasal congestion in me.)
In addition to the rage, which is a totally unacceptable side effect, Lamictal when I increase the dosage, such as from 50 mg to 75 mg, makes me incredibly sleepy and lethargic during the day and I feel completely unable to get anything done. This is a debilitating side effect. The only way around it I have found is to increase the dosage by only 5 mg or 10 mg.
For some reason, the dose increase on this med tends to hit me immediately, instead of a few days later. I do not know why this is.
Since I really want to do things like clean out closets, it might be worth it to stick out the "rage" issue for awhile if I thought it would pass. But it feels dangerous and like something I need to stop immediately, especially since I share my life with animals whom I do not want to endanger or harm in any way, not even verbally.
Posted by Karen44 on August 14, 2006, at 23:21:04
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » blippitybloo, posted by Phillipa on August 12, 2006, at 20:37:18
> You just triggered what I did and felt on lamictal. I too got up to 50mg and don't get angry stuff it inside. Have anxiety and agoraphobia also. With my husband outside the grocery I was angry at him for no reason had a plastic tea bottle in my hand, turned around and smashed it against the columm on the store and yelled at him. I never do these things. And I was mad at him the whole time I was on it. I discontinued due to excess salivation very unpleasant. Love Phillipa
Maybe it was good you got angry with him; ever thing the depression was lifting, and some of the anger toward him was surfacing???Karen
Posted by macandme on September 7, 2007, at 18:23:35
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » Phillipa, posted by blippitybloo on August 13, 2006, at 0:06:03
> Thank you for saying someone else has experienced the rage / irritability / aggression side effect with Lamictal so I don't think I'm going crazy.
>
> Today alone I have done the following:
>
> 1. Screamed at my 16-1/2-year-old cat for not wanting to eat her food (normal for her and I never usually get upset; I am very patient with her)
>
> 2. Screamed at my 14-year-old cat for a (normal for him) problem with the litter box (which I usually do not ever get upset about; I am very patient with him)
>
> 3. Locked my 7-year-old cat in a room because she was meowing too much (!)
>
> 4. Cursed extremely in my yard over a small issue that I raised to extreme levels and apparently I did not care who heard me, even the young children next door
>
> 5. Left a message for my insurance company peppered with curse words including the F word; something I would never do
>
> 6. Tore open a carton of frozen vegetables violently because I could not get them open faster; then stabbed them violently with a fork twice just to "pierce" them; but this wasn't a normal dinner preparation; in fact the package was so mutilated I kept it as something to show my doctor.
>
> None of these things I would normally have done. I am leaving out a few people I got pissed off at on the phone today.
>
> I don't want to disturb my doctor on the weekend, but I may make the decision to go to 50mg as I do not want to put my cats in danger.
>
> I may even skip my dosage entirely tonight.
>
> The benefits of Lamictal are that the other day, my first two days on 75 mg I felt like cleaning out my closets, the first time in 7 years. For two days I felt up to doing that. This was a *major* improvement for me.
>
> Other benefits are I have lost a bit of weight, although it seems to be coming back due to suddenly unexplainable carb/sugar cravings. Originally on Lamictal I had no appetite, but now my appetite appears to bounce around to the extreme; sometimes I am very hungry and sometimes not at all.
>
> Also for some reason Lamictal has partially relieved the nasal congestion I experience with the Seroquel I take. (Seroquel causes both weight gain and nasal congestion in me.)
>
> In addition to the rage, which is a totally unacceptable side effect, Lamictal when I increase the dosage, such as from 50 mg to 75 mg, makes me incredibly sleepy and lethargic during the day and I feel completely unable to get anything done. This is a debilitating side effect. The only way around it I have found is to increase the dosage by only 5 mg or 10 mg.
>
> For some reason, the dose increase on this med tends to hit me immediately, instead of a few days later. I do not know why this is.
>
> Since I really want to do things like clean out closets, it might be worth it to stick out the "rage" issue for awhile if I thought it would pass. But it feels dangerous and like something I need to stop immediately, especially since I share my life with animals whom I do not want to endanger or harm in any way, not even verbally.
>
>Hi there,
I just boosted my dosage of lamictal up to 50 mg from 25mg last week. I also take aderall 20 mg. I read your post and ever since i uped my dosage to 50 mg, ive also had major fits of rage!! One minute i feel happy, the next 20 minutes im full of energy, then i feel depressed and anxious or mad as hell for no good reason!
I called the pharmacy because i wanted to see if the two drugs were interactable and they are. The pharmacist recommended not taking any drugs together. Seperate them by two or three hours or more if you can. She said sometimes one will out weigh the other and you will not get the same effects or adverse effects in some cases.
I think im going to take the lamictal at night from now on. If it makes me sleepless which i dont think it will because i pretty sure it has a peak time, i will just take ambien which works great for me.
Please let me know if your rageing effects have subsided any.
Thanks!
Posted by rina on September 8, 2007, at 14:49:47
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by macandme on September 7, 2007, at 18:23:35
Hi All,
Just noticed your post as well. I also take lamictal and Adderall as well as Ritalin. What helped me was taking the Ritalin and Adderall at morning and the Lamictal at night. I'm up to 175mg of the Lamictal with no side effects, hope this helps and good luck with the switch.
Posted by polarbear206 on September 10, 2007, at 12:47:54
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by Karen44 on August 14, 2006, at 23:21:04
You have to be very careful when combing stimulants with other medication. It can be very tricky and you have to tinker and experiment with dosages and the times you take them. The stimulants are notorious for exacerbating moods when taking with these drugs. IMOP, I don't think its a good combination. You might want to try to lower the dose of the stimulant and see what happens. Check with you p-doc first, before you initiate anything.
Polarbear
Posted by polarbear206 on September 10, 2007, at 12:55:41
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 10:18:08
Posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 13:59:15
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by polarbear206 on September 10, 2007, at 12:47:54
Polar,
Was your post in response to my comments about taking ritalin and adderall with 200mg lamictal and having bipolarl? just curious.
Posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 14:22:51
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by macandme on September 7, 2007, at 18:23:35
I'm on adderall as well with lamictal which i take at night. one thing i remember my pdoc said to me before i started the adderall and other stimulants was that he wasn't going to let me begin the stimulants until my mood was stabilized at a consistent baseline at the target dose. Reason being was because the stimulants would cause or might potentially cause a mood swing or rapid cycling which wouldn't enable him to effectively see whether the mood stabilizer was working well at the proper dose yet or the stimulant is destabilizing my progress. His motto is always "one pant leg at a time or you might take a chance in falling." "one drug at a time so we can see what works and what doesn't add or delete as necessary."
Posted by polarbear206 on September 11, 2007, at 17:23:48
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » polarbear206, posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 13:59:15
> Polar,
> Was your post in response to my comments about taking ritalin and adderall with 200mg lamictal and having bipolarl? just curious.No, it was for Macandme. I forgot to add name. Sorry,
PB
Posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 17:26:40
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » rina, posted by polarbear206 on September 11, 2007, at 17:23:48
your comment was right on the money but i just wanted to ask if it was for me. thanks for responding.
Posted by Tony P on September 18, 2007, at 22:18:11
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli » macandme, posted by rina on September 11, 2007, at 14:22:51
> His motto is always "one pant leg at a time or you might take a chance in falling." [i.e.] "one drug at a time so we can see what works and what doesn't...."
I really like that motto (ROTFL)! I've done the other thing too often in the past: I feel terrible, so I'll take this AND this AND that (and maybe some of this other thing that worked a year ago), so surely something will work -- but then if I do feel better, which was the med that _really_ did it? And if I don't feel better, it may be because one med is counteracting another -- both I & my pdoc wind up not knowing which way to go from there, he's frustrated with my wholesale experimenting, and I'm embarassed and still depressed.
I sure hope Lamictal _doesn't_ contribute to rapid cycling, irritability, etc., because that's just where I'm at right now on other meds and wondering about going back on Lamictal! It _should_ help all of the above, right?
Worth mentioning though that when I first went on it a few years ago, as I titrated the dose up, at the 100mg level I quite suddenly got hit with a load of anxiety & irritability -- needed a heavy dose of clonazepam to get through it - but came out the other side a month later at 200 mg/day (if I remember rightly) and almost no side effects. It never really did much for my GAD/social phobia that I could see, but the heavy-duty near-panic-attack thing seemed to be just a transition.
Anyone else been through that? I'd like to be prepared for it this time if I do go back on Lamictal or something similar.
Posted by The Michael on May 12, 2008, at 18:20:15
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by macandme on September 7, 2007, at 18:23:35
My wife has had the same problem. She was fine up to 75 g. When she went from 74 mg to 100 mg, she went nto a transient rage that lasted about three days. Once the trasient period ended, she was fine. She failed to tell h doctor, who then raised her from 100 mg to 125 mg, and she went into an uncontrollable rage, directed at me, for four days. She seems to be OK now, but as one with bipolar, it sent me into manic phase resulting in hospitalization for me. I left an angry message for herd doctor explaining whathad happened and begged him not to raise her to 150 mg. I called the pmacist who said it was because of the combination of Lactimal and Invega (she's on 9 mg) and I also reported it to the manufacturers of Lamictal and Invega.
Posted by TatteredandTorn on May 13, 2008, at 19:33:36
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by The Michael on May 12, 2008, at 18:20:15
I hate Cymbalta! that and Effexor should be removed to me they are the worst things i could have ever taken - i'd rather have tried illegal drugs - i would have getten a better high and come down for sure!
Both meds made me feel like i was dying! HorribleBUT
I have been taking Lamictal for over a year now on and off [i'm bad with meds and often refuse to take em!] i'm back up to 200mg and i must admit i cant say whether these are the cause of my irritability/anger/temper/tantrums etc......i have always had a hot temper but i honestly couldnt say if its from Lamictal...
there are a lot of confusing posts on here that seem to link together one way or another....for me anyhow....
i also take Seroquel 400mg daily....for mania.....i wonder if it was the Lamictal that caused it.....hmmmmmm...
xx
Posted by elanor roosevelt on May 13, 2008, at 20:23:04
In reply to Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycling?, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 9:34:03
fits of rage
my poor kid
25mg to 100 mg
also teariness
at 150 the despair set in
i didn't want to go out
wanted to stare
200mg oh no the despair grows
last night took a lexapro so i would be able to get up in the morning
at least i called my pdoc
will see him tomorrow
and stop the lamictal
Posted by TatteredandTorn on May 14, 2008, at 16:27:25
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycli, posted by elanor roosevelt on May 13, 2008, at 20:23:04
I was on lexapro years ago and it did nothing for me....
Posted by Dixie8 on May 17, 2008, at 15:21:57
In reply to Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycling?, posted by HEART~ on July 23, 2006, at 9:34:03
this is scary! I just started Lamictal because of seizures with mania. My wonderful former neurologist retired. New neuro' thinks Depakote is "old hat" and can cause dizziness, forgetfulness & essential tremor (I have in my neck & sometimes hands). Before diag. (mostly manic end of bipolar & OCD), I'd go into rage fits like my father & grandmother did. Awful. I absolutely do not want that again. I've been great for the last 12 years on a combo of Depakote, Seroquel & xanax. I was frustrated w/the Katherine Hepburn type head shaking but would rather have that than rages! Has anyone out there had Good results with Lamictal?
Posted by elbee on May 19, 2008, at 16:27:03
In reply to Re: Lamictal cause rage, irritability rapid cycling?, posted by Dixie8 on May 17, 2008, at 15:21:57
Hi Dixie8,
I've had great results with lamictal. I was formerly nervous and depressed and suicidal. That was 3 years ago and since I have been on lamictal my family says that I am better than I have been in the last 10 years. I am functioning great and am no longer depressed/nervous. The only downside has been that for some lamictal makes it hard to sleep. Since I take zyprexa that counteracts the problem so it works out...Not everyone has that though. Even if you do hopefully the seroquel will balance it out.
Good luck! Hope it works well. It's really been a great drug for me!
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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