![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 30. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Ledgekay on December 4, 2007, at 14:24:03
Hi. I was just wondering if anyone has had tremor and agitation as a side effect of an antidepressant, that never stopped, even after the medication was stopped. I was prescribed Lexapro in 2002 -- a dosage that was much too high for me. Even though I had done well with antidepressants for 10 years -- my doctor decided to swith my medication to see if there would be fewer sexual side effects. This time I acquired Serotonin Syndrome. Yet, the doctor did not recognize it -- even though I had severe tremors, agitation, sleeplessness, pacing, and more. He continued me on the dosage, raising it and adding more serotonergic drugs for 3 1/2 months. Now I am left with permanent agitation and tremor. A different doctor finally found Neurontin to help, but after more experimenting (because I thought I could go off of the Neurontin and return to normal), I now can't go back to the old things that helped with the same result. My body has obviously been permanently altered! I am very discouraged and can't seem to attract any attention from any university, neurologist (I have seen 3 that say in their basic assessment, that my problem is not neurological), or research center. All of them say that the side effects should end when the medicine is stopped and my case is rare. (They tend to seem not to believe me.) I could say more, but will leave it for now. I have an excellent doctor who is trying desperately to find something that will work to give me a chance to live an enjoyable life again, but there is so much that is not known and he says he can find nothing in the research. If anyone else has had permanent side-effects from antidepressants -- especially tremor and agitation, please let me know. The more we group together, the better chance we have to attract attention and get help and maybe more research!! Thank you for any responses you have.
Posted by torachan on December 4, 2007, at 19:05:57
In reply to Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 4, 2007, at 14:24:03
Research into the mechanisms and short and long term effects of these medications even after discontinuation is in its infancy. In my estimate, it will take another 10-20 years before science begins to unravel a suitable picture of just what these drugs are fully responsible for in our nervous system that can be separated from our natural biological and neurochemical makeup.
I can certainly relate to what you're saying about feeling somehow changed even several months after stopping. I just don't know to what degree I can attribute the effects to my disorder or the drugs.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 20:59:57
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by torachan on December 4, 2007, at 19:05:57
Interestingly, that is what I have been saying right along to others promoting high doses of AD's based on what had helped them and no one ever seeming concerned about the long term effects of these drugs. I was always taking less than the supposed average dose range (Hi Phillipa, can you relate). If a med like Prozac was 20-40mg, I would feel better at 10mg. Oftentimes my doc would try and push the doses but if I had too many side effects, I was sure it was my body's way of saying "Hey, that dose is going to kill me or give me such freaking SE's I will be worse off than being depressed!"
Long story short, my opinion of many of these drugs is...unless they are helping you without terrible side effects they might be OK in the long run. If they cause alot of side effects at much higher doses than are suggested, the long term effects may be significant, but we will not know for a long time what these side effects will be. Try and get an updated current list of side effects for any drug out there and you will not find it. The side effects listed in the package insert are only during the drug's testing phases, not after the drug is released to the masses. No side effect profiles are required to be kept by the pharmaceutical cos., it's voluntary. Need I say more? No lawsuits for them if no records are kept. Try and prove which drug the side effects are related to 10-20 years down the road...
Stargazer
Posted by linkadge on December 4, 2007, at 23:53:03
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by torachan on December 4, 2007, at 19:05:57
I've never been the same since coming off of SSRI's. My bout with SSRI use was by far the single most disruptive life even that I have experienced.
If I could just go back in time and change that decision....whats done is done.
Linkadge
Posted by Phillipa on December 4, 2007, at 23:54:10
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by stargazer2 on December 4, 2007, at 20:59:57
Stargazer definitely agree with you as we've discussed. Love Phillipa
Posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2007, at 6:32:42
In reply to Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 4, 2007, at 14:24:03
There may very well be long term and permanent side effects from anti-depressants. Certainly the anti-psychotics are known to, in some people, cause permanent problems post use.
One of the problems I see in detecting these long term effects is that, at least for the ADs, they are either fairly rare, or written off as the disease itself. In your case, the agitation could easily be attributed to a "new" symptom of what you sought treatment for in the first place - thus leaving the patient and the physician with little evidence that it was drug-induced.
Another problem with detecting long term effects of the ADs is that no institution (drug company, NIH etc...) wants to invest the money or the time that would be required to detect them. If you look at the literature, these so called "exposure" studies are usually done when the effect is common and appears fairly quickly.
There is clearly much work and much advocacy that needs to be done.
I'm usually not a litigious person, but have you considered contacting a lawyer that specializes in medical cases? It may sound unseemly to some, but lawyers can be a valuable repository of cases that physicians overlook. There maybe a lot of people that have considered legal relief after exposure to a drug. Sometimes physicians don't "put things together" so to speak, but lawyers are always looking for causality.
Seldom.
Posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 8:58:43
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2007, at 6:32:42
Thank you all of you for your posts. I appreciate them very much. In response to "seldomseen," I am not a person for litigation either, but felt I needed help to find the money to treat the problems I've encountered. First of all, by the time I could think coherently again, it had almost been 2 years -- which is the window of time that you can file a lawsuit against the drug company. I tried to gather the information, but was too late. Then I focused on the physician, because it hadn't been 2 years since I had seen him -- but I had to have another psychiatrist back up my position and NONE would do it. None would say that he was negligent -- even though, if I told you the whole story, you would not doubt it. My lawyer told me that I had a strong case, but in Indiana, it is hard to get a conviction because you must go through a panel of doctors and they nearly all stick together for their own -- even when it is CLEAR that a mistake has been made. I had to drop the case because I could not find an expert witness that would help and I didin't have the money to do a search or pay one -- especially knowing that I would probably lose my case anyway. My current psychiatrist said that he searched the literature and could find nothing in the research to back up what happened to me. He said, "I could be the first one," but that probably wouldn't stand up in court.
There is no question that this happened because of the antidepressant, but as you said, I have been told that I probably had this before and just didn't notice it! I have been "counseled" on how to "control" my "anxiety" and agitation! (But, it's like drinking 10 cups of coffee and having PMS at the same time. You can't control the way your body shakes or the way you feel "wired!") I am an educated person, I taught school, raised 3 college-educated children, have a husband with a Ph.D., my father is a physician, my sister is a nurse and her husband is a physician and my other sister and husband are both EMTs. I am not someone who would just make this up or "imagine it!" and my former doctor who caused this problem knows that in the previous 10 years, I said absolutely NOTHING about tremors or agitation! I was relaxed, took naps, and enjoyed my life. The symptoms that I have are nearly unbearable at times. It's hard not to give up hope, but I do believe there is an answer. I just hope I can continue on and find it! Again, thank you for all of your help.--------Oh, I should say, I did also contact the drug company. I was told that they would make a note of the reaction. When I asked to talk to researchers or for an interview with someone who was responsible for researching the drug, I was told that no one could really help me. NO one wants to research someone like me to see what went wrong! If anyone knows of anyone, let me know. Thanks.
Posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 9:06:50
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2007, at 6:32:42
I should mention that the reason I started taking antidepressants in the first place was for depression. They worked great and gave me a happy, productive life, without all of the tears and disappointment with myself. It wasn't until the excesssive dose of Lexapro that antidepressants worked AGAINST me. I do believe that they are great medicines -- when used properly -- listening carefully to the client who is taking them, when changes are made!!
Posted by rskontos on December 5, 2007, at 10:47:10
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 9:06:50
Ledgekay, Hi I am so sorry for your experiences. I was put on cymbalta after having panic attacks but I was not diagnosis correctly because the wrong questions were asked. And I went into the worst phase. I was already numb but was cracking around the edges and cymbalta made me a zombie. I wound up in the hospital with gi problems and my digestive system still isn't right. Getting off cymbalta was a nightmare. I just tapered off lexapro but never went up to the dosage doc told me to use. I slept way too much so if I wasn't depressed anymore I would have known it I would have been sleeping. I am not the same. And I finallly found a therapist that did diagnosis me correctly. Meds are still a problem but they are always right and have always been my whole life.
I agree for every side effect you go in and tell them and get that vacant stare and that mmmmmmmm, I hate. No one wants to hear about them cause they don't want to be responsible for any part of a side effect. To have been the doc prescribing the drug, the one to deal with the side effect or to help you understand so lets play it is not there. It does not take a degree in anything but common sense to know that a drug of these types or strengths or ones that mess with brain chemistry with have side effects. That is a no-brainer if you ask me. Not will these drugs have side effects, the questions should be what are the side effects and go from there. And it is sad that you were having good success and then they stopped listening to you and the docs themselves caused their own meds to stop working. How sad for you and for them. What ever happened to hippocractic oath, do no harm?
rk
Posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 11:11:53
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 9:06:50
What dose of Lexapro were you on? Have you looked into the effects of Serotonin Syndrome and it's long term effects if not recognized and treated promptly? That is the real issue even though Lexapro was given at too high of a dose. Your doc is obviously unfamilar with the syndrome and should not be prescribing medications if he ignors the symptoms of it. Hindsight is 20/20.
Medication side effects are going to be such a growing problem, as so many patients are taking newer mediations where the side effects are not known for years. How about the current litigation with Fosomax for bone loss of the jaw experienced by large numbers of users. There's a lawsuit pending on this. But hundreds or thousand have experienced this effect. So the lawsuit is against the manufacturer.
Have you reached out to others who have had late stage seritonin syndrome and were not taken off the medication immediately. Those are who you would need to find, to gather a voice and pursue a case against either the drug manufacturer (does the package insert include SS as a side effect?)or your doc if s(he) did not recognize the syndrome and treat it accordingly.
Have they prescibed anything like Cogentin for the tremors? That may be something to look into, not sure about if used for these kinds of tremors.
Your story is becoming more and more common and there should be a patient database for side effects since the pharmaceutical companies don't want to be bothered with this. It would be like hanging out a shingle to sue them. They have to focus on producing newer meds for the masses who are clamoring for new drugs, unlike previous generations who feared taking anything stronger than aspirin. Perhaps that older, more suspect generation had the right amount of caution.
I can only advise everyone out there that they think long and hard about the meds they take, the doses they are on and if your doctor ignores your side effects and wants you to press on despite you intuitively knowing you are in danger. You have to listen to that inner voice tell you when enough is enough. You may be dealing with an inexperienced doctor, too, rather than someone who is trained to listen to the patient and heed their concerns.
My experience with Zoloft was very bad, it made
me suicidal, but my pdoc said it was the depression getting worse. He wanted me to raise the dose but luckily I refused and stopped it against his advice. The suicidal thoughts evaporated that very day. If I had acted upon my SI, I would have killed myself and it would have seen as a casue of the depression, never the medication. No one would have ever questioned this side effect of Zoloft, since it was not known at the time to cause this effect. Now the black box warnings have made the connection with medications and suicidality.Raising a dose of medication beyond the recommended dose would raise a red flag to me, although it is done all the time (not to me) since I have refused to do this or to take atypical AP's, as they have side effects of tardive dyskinesia. I don't want to have if I don't have to and I have no psychotic features to my depression.
Side effects are the only warnings you will get before something critical can occur. Why doctors push dosages higher and higher when serious side effects result is pure malpractice, if you ask me.
Enough said, I fear for the people who accept their doctors advice blindly. Luckily, I have enough skepticism now as a result of how long I have taken medications. I'm not against using drugs at all, but I wish others (docs and patients) would be more cautious and understand the dangerousness of any meds, even aspirin if used improperly.
Sorry for your situation...
Stargazer
Posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2007, at 12:13:31
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 8:58:43
I'm not surprised that no one wants to research your case at the drug company. Especially since you appear to be prescibed the drug outside of its prescribing guidelines.
However, I would talk to your psychiatrist about publishing a case report about it.
I've seen this happen where a single case report about a single event was published - other physicians read the report and say "you know, I have a patient who reports the same thing" and so on. It's something to think about.
Also, just because you might not be able to get legal relief, I would not give up on the lawyers just yet.
Search for class action suits, or approach another lawyer about a class action. Again, YOU may not get relief, BUT it may put you in contact with others that share the same experience.
Sorry you're going through all this.
Are you on any meds for the agitation?
Seldom
Posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 13:05:31
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants » Ledgekay, posted by seldomseen on December 5, 2007, at 12:13:31
In reply to "seldomseen," I am taking Neurontin and sometimes Klonopin for the agitation. That is about all that works. The Neurontin helps the tremor and the agitation, but not enough. In response to Stargazer, my doctor that prescribed the Lexapro, also thought I was getting MORE depressed (even though I wasn't even depressed when I started Lexapro! I was actually riding in our van on the way to a get-together with friends and could feel something come over me -- 10 days after starting Lexapro.) I told the doctor something was wrong. That's when he said I was getting depressed and needed more medicine. When he doubled the dose, that is when I couldn't sleep, paced all night, my hands shook so bad you could see it, I fumbled when trying to pick things up, I had a "burning" sensation in my arms -- and when I called back, I was told to add more medicine!! I said to the nurse that I just didn't think that was right and she told me "Well, you won't know unless you try it!" That is what is so hard to take! I questioned their judgment! And I waited too long to put my foot down and just say "No!" -- which I finally did 3 1/2 months later. But it was too late.
I had never had tremor, sleeplessness, or burning sensation at all!! when starting an antidepressant and none of those side-effects were ever present the 10 years that I had good reactions to antidepressants. I tried to let them "experiment" with me for 1 1/2 years and then actually did try to take my life. For me, it was fortunate that I hadn't taken enough pills, because it was soon after that that the new doctor found Neurontin, that turned my life around. Then I was give some more bad advice be a combination of doctors and I am here suffering intensely again.I appreciate the advice. My doctor is a very busy man -- Indian decent -- and very good. He is the one that finally found Neurontin that gave me some relief, but I don't know if he would take the time to write an article about my case or not. I will suggest it and see what happens.
Thanks again.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 16:43:35
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 5, 2007, at 13:05:31
The doctor you currently see is not the doctor that gave you the Lexapro is it? I was't clear on that point. Your new doc would never agree to a case study, I wouldn't think, since he did not prescribe the lexapro and I'm sure doesn't want any part of that situation. Perhaps I'm wrong.
Did you ever get your medical records from the Lexapro doctor? I would do this for what it's worth...just to see what was said, could be very interesting and may not be accurate. Ask your family, the docs, what you should do about this, they should be able to advise you on next steps if you want to pursue a case or write an article,whatever it takes to get your story told.
If you live near a medical center, there may be someone that could write up your case for a journal or something. I'm just grasping at straws here to find ways to tell your story to others...perhaps start with on-line forums where it will be documented for others to be aware of. I tell my Zoloft story alot, becasue it was the beginning of my ability to say ""NO, I won't continue taking it. If I do I will kill myself and I am dead serious about this, trust me on this one." Luckily my pdoc has learned to trust my judgement and is really good about hearing what I say to him and that episode made us much more honest with eachother.
It hasn't cured my depression, by a long shot, that happened in the mid-90's, but who said depression is ever something you can eradicate completely.
Stargazer
Posted by mike lynch on December 6, 2007, at 2:26:48
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by linkadge on December 4, 2007, at 23:53:03
> I've never been the same since coming off of SSRI's. My bout with SSRI use was by far the single most disruptive life even that I have experienced.
>
> If I could just go back in time and change that decision....whats done is done.
>
> Linkadge
>what he said
Posted by yxibow on December 6, 2007, at 2:29:43
In reply to Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 4, 2007, at 14:24:03
> Hi. I was just wondering if anyone has had tremor and agitation as a side effect of an antidepressant, that never stopped, even after the medication was stopped. I was prescribed Lexapro in 2002 -- a dosage that was much too high for me. Even though I had done well with antidepressants for 10 years -- my doctor decided to swith my medication to see if there would be fewer sexual side effects. This time I acquired Serotonin Syndrome. Yet, the doctor did not recognize it -- even though I had severe tremors, agitation, sleeplessness, pacing, and more. He continued me on the dosage, raising it and adding more serotonergic drugs for 3 1/2 months.
The tremors and agitation were probably more an "EPS" like reaction as in antipsychotics -- akathisia.
If you acquired Serotonin Syndrome, I don't want to be baldfaced, but you would be dead by now. Its something that has to be treated in a hospital, its not just agitation, it has 104+ fevers, delirium, and other really nasty things. Flumazenil is often the intravenous drug of choice and you would be in the ER.
Now the level of Lexapro and whatever "serotonergic drugs" you were on were presumably approaching the LD50 the way you describe it and that was definately beyond inappropriate. But remember, you did take the medication voluntarily, nobody forced it down your mouth. So not only would it end up being purposeless, but suing would just throw back in your face your first doctor's malpractice insurance, I'm afraid to say :(
Now I am left with permanent agitation and tremor.
This is possibly a case of tardive akathisia mixed with latent pseudoparkinsonism, but I am not a qualified neurologist obviously. I do sympathize, I have a latent tic from medication that unfortunately I still have to take for the moment because the benefits outweigh the risks.
A different doctor finally found Neurontin to help, but after more experimenting (because I thought I could go off of the Neurontin and return to normal), I now can't go back to the old things that helped with the same result. My body has obviously been permanently altered!
I am very discouraged and can't seem to attract any attention from any university, neurologist (I have seen 3 that say in their basic assessment, that my problem is not neurological), or research center. All of them say that the side effects should end when the medicine is stopped and my case is rare. (They tend to seem not to believe me.) I could say more, but will leave it for now.
If you have seen 3 neurologists from university neurological clinics and they all agree that the case is rare and inconclusive, is what I gather more than whether they believe you, I'm not sure how many more you can see. I don't know what region of the country you're in otherwise I could recommend what I think you need more, or you could research it yourself, is a movement disorders clinic, a special subset of neurology. There are literally 60+ subsets where I got my diagnosis.I have an excellent doctor who is trying desperately to find something that will work to give me a chance to live an enjoyable life again, but there is so much that is not known and he says he can find nothing in the research. If anyone else has had permanent side-effects from antidepressants -- especially tremor and agitation, please let me know. The more we group together, the better chance we have to attract attention and get help and maybe more research!! Thank you for any responses you have.
I think more research is always a good thing but this is about you. Try to find a movement disorders clinic (you may find one by networking your doctor through a veterans hospital as antipsychotic effects are often researched at such places.)
I wish you well and I'm glad Neurontin is working for you. There's also Lyrica if your doctor wants to try it and a host of other possible medications for certain neurological disorders including -some- tardive conditions.
Posted by Ledgekay on December 6, 2007, at 8:18:11
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants » Ledgekay, posted by yxibow on December 6, 2007, at 2:29:43
In response to yxibow, thanks again for your post. I agree with most of what you say. I am from Indiana, but I have been to a movement disorder clinic in Houston, Texas, a neurologist at IU medical center, and a neurologist at Cleveland Clinc. They have never seen a case like mine and say I don't have "parkinsonian" symptoms. I have taken Lyrica, but Neurontin seemed to work better. In my research, Serotonin Syndrome does not always have to have an accompanying fever. Some of the books I have read "Prozac Backlash" for one and other research I have done, indicate that there are several levels of serotonin syndrome and it seems that mine had most of the features, but not all. The "Prozac Backlash" book also referred to it as a sort of "agitated depression."
Unfortunately with taking drugs "voluntarily" is that if you don't follow your doctor's orders, your are liable, but if you do, you are also liable (in a sense). I argued with the nurses about the appropriateness of taking more meds, but they encouraged me to take more. I have seen their records and they DO document my disagreement. Not everything that happened is recorded exactly as it happened, but there is enough that I could make a case -- however, it's too late now anyway. I just want help to feel better!
I appreciate everyone's advice, yet it seems that most people offer ideas that I have already tried or researched. But, that is okay, I'd rather have more ideas to pursue than less. I just want to enjoy my life again and all of the "experts" are baffled at my case and don't know how to help me. Most of the things that are tried, just make it worse! As I said, more research needs to be done.
My husband is a licensed psychologist. He thinks that something has happened in the receptors that has caused "excitability" in my system. I am taking medicines now that would make people sleep most of the day -- yet they just calm me down. I was NEVER like that before! I agree that I have some type of akathisia -- but I have never heard of "tardive akathisia." How does that differ from regular akathisia?
I agree that my doctor probably won't want to do a case study since he was not the original prescribing doctor -- even though he has the records. I would probably have to write the article. Any suggestions what magazines would accept an article written by me? (I have written articles for the newspaper and magazines before -- though very few. And I have taken writing classes, since that is something I enjoy.) I know I could write an effective article, but where could I submit it? Any ideas? Thanks.
Posted by stargazer2 on December 6, 2007, at 15:45:42
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by Ledgekay on December 6, 2007, at 8:18:11
A story of a medication error...
My father was given Haldol, a dopamine antagonist, in the ER of a top-notch (?) hospital in CT. Since he had Parkinson's and had been on Sinemet, a dopamine agonist, you would think the docs there would know NEVER to give Haldol to a patient with Parkinson's. You would think in this top notch facility it would be known not to do this. Well it was done without any reservation at all. It was apparent that the doctors treating him were ignorant of this medication reaction or knew about it but didn't apply it to him.
He received Haldol and when I arrived in the ER, a few hours later, I saw how rigid he was. I felt his forehead and he was on fire...No temperature had been taken and I asked that that be done immediately. You would have thought I asked for a million dollars. The staff looked at me with blank stares but took his temperature, it was 105!
Long story short, he went into Neuroleptic Malignant Syndrome (NMS), which is the result of giving Haldol to a patient with Parkinson's taking Sinemet.
I immediately called the intern and resident over and told them that I thought he had NMS. It was off the top of my head, but I was familiar with it. I knew the answer as their eyes glazed over and they immediately recognized what I had said was true. But here they were trained by one of the finest hospitals in CT and they had missed it...
He was admitted that night for observation since it can lead to organ shutdown and death.
Luckily it was caught in time and could be reversed.So all of these reactions, like TD (tardive dyskinesa), EPS (Extrapyramidal Syndrome), NMS are all the results of medication errors where doctors are either unfamilar with the side effects or they are too rushed to pick up on the condition. ER's are not the safest places to be especially in large city hospitals, where all the focus is on gunshot victims, not senile men with Parkinson's.
I know if I did not go to the ER that night, he could have ended up much more severely ill since he probably would have been given additional doses of Haldol. Being a nurse and having 3 siblings who are attorneys, we are familiar with malpractice cases, so we would have persued one if the situation was warranted.
I am so angry about all of these medication errors, where does it leave the patient? Who can you report this to. I guess you can contact the FDA and drug manufacturor, for first steps. Then you could report this doctor to the state agency for quality of care. Writing your story also is a great idea. I'll look into a site to go to for these tyes of issues, if I can find anything like this.
Stargazer
Posted by Ledgekay on December 6, 2007, at 16:31:36
In reply to A personal story of NMS, medication error, posted by stargazer2 on December 6, 2007, at 15:45:42
Stargazer,
Thank you again for your post. Your story helps confirm my dilemma, but unfortunately, doesn't cure me. I have reported to the FDA, the drug company, and the doctor to the state agency -- but that's all I know to do. Unfortunatley, it doesn't help me. I just submitted a mini version of my story to Reader's Digest, but I doubt if they want to pick it up. They have too many other "important" things to write about and they don't know me or if I am reliable. But, I will still try. I just want help. If you have any other suggestions for places to write, I will look into it. Thanks again.
Posted by mike lynch on December 6, 2007, at 20:44:47
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants » Ledgekay, posted by yxibow on December 6, 2007, at 2:29:43
> But remember, you did take the medication >voluntarily, nobody forced it down your mouth. So >not only would it end up being purposeless, but >suing would just throw back in your face your >first doctor's malpractice insurance, I'm afraid >to say :(
If you are sold a car and a week after driving it you realize the break suddenly stops working (manufacture error) and you crash into a wall resulting in major injuries because of this mistake, the driver should be held accountable? After all they voluntarily drove the car, nobody certainly "forced them".
The doctors are responsible for administering a healthy dose of medication. If a doctor gives a patient an unhealthy dose, or the wrong medication that results in complications, they are responsible. The patients aren't the ones who are responsible for studying the medications and knowing what to take, the doctors are. The patient only knows what the doctor tells them.
The notion that a doctor isn't responsible for the prescriptions they give there patients isn't right, not even legally. If a doctors prescribes the wrong dose by negligence, or the drug they gave them injured their patient, someone, whether it be the doctor or the drug company should be held accountable.
Posted by yxibow on December 7, 2007, at 4:12:30
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants » yxibow, posted by mike lynch on December 6, 2007, at 20:44:47
> > But remember, you did take the medication >voluntarily, nobody forced it down your mouth. So >not only would it end up being purposeless, but >suing would just throw back in your face your >first doctor's malpractice insurance, I'm afraid >to say :(
>
> If you are sold a car and a week after driving it you realize the break suddenly stops working (manufacture error) and you crash into a wall resulting in major injuries because of this mistake, the driver should be held accountable? After all they voluntarily drove the car, nobody certainly "forced them".
>
> The doctors are responsible for administering a healthy dose of medication. If a doctor gives a patient an unhealthy dose, or the wrong medication that results in complications, they are responsible. The patients aren't the ones who are responsible for studying the medications and knowing what to take, the doctors are. The patient only knows what the doctor tells them.
>
> The notion that a doctor isn't responsible for the prescriptions they give there patients isn't right, not even legally. If a doctors prescribes the wrong dose by negligence, or the drug they gave them injured their patient, someone, whether it be the doctor or the drug company should be held accountable.
The drug companies have deeeep pockets....
The doctor shouldn't be asleep at the wheel, that's not what I implied, I didn't vet what the doctor was doing at all. I'm just saying that if you could even locate the doctor again, what purpose does it do to sue? Do you have the monetary resources? Do you have the anguish to go through it all again psychologically? And finally at the end of it, suppose you're awarded $25 million, are you going to live in Club Mental Health Med? (that wasn't meant to be nasty) There's still a life to patch back together, mind and body. I don't know if thats anything money can buy.
Posted by mike lynch on December 7, 2007, at 12:06:44
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants » mike lynch, posted by yxibow on December 7, 2007, at 4:12:30
> > > But remember, you did take the medication >voluntarily, nobody forced it down your mouth. So >not only would it end up being purposeless, but >suing would just throw back in your face your >first doctor's malpractice insurance, I'm afraid >to say :(
> >
> > If you are sold a car and a week after driving it you realize the break suddenly stops working (manufacture error) and you crash into a wall resulting in major injuries because of this mistake, the driver should be held accountable? After all they voluntarily drove the car, nobody certainly "forced them".
> >
> > The doctors are responsible for administering a healthy dose of medication. If a doctor gives a patient an unhealthy dose, or the wrong medication that results in complications, they are responsible. The patients aren't the ones who are responsible for studying the medications and knowing what to take, the doctors are. The patient only knows what the doctor tells them.
> >
> > The notion that a doctor isn't responsible for the prescriptions they give there patients isn't right, not even legally. If a doctors prescribes the wrong dose by negligence, or the drug they gave them injured their patient, someone, whether it be the doctor or the drug company should be held accountable.
>
>
> The drug companies have deeeep pockets....
> The doctor shouldn't be asleep at the wheel, that's not what I implied, I didn't vet what the doctor was doing at all. I'm just saying that if you could even locate the doctor again, what purpose does it do to sue? Do you have the monetary resources? Do you have the anguish to go through it all again psychologically? And finally at the end of it, suppose you're awarded $25 million, are you going to live in Club Mental Health Med? (that wasn't meant to be nasty) There's still a life to patch back together, mind and body. I don't know if thats anything money can buy.
>It will result in a degree of accountability and justice. It's better then nothing. If a lawsuit is enacted, the companies have to admit the problems with these drugs, it will both help change policy and prevent other people from being so quick to turn to some of these drugs. It's not about the money, its getting the drug companies to admit that there drugs can cause these type of effects.
Posted by amigan on December 10, 2007, at 4:34:25
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepressants, posted by mike lynch on December 7, 2007, at 12:06:44
I wonder if anyone here has develop permanent or long lasting mania/hypomania from ADs.. I think i had that with Anafranil, even for many months after i stopped taking it.
Posted by florence on December 15, 2007, at 3:23:36
In reply to Re: Permanent side effects from antidepress/LedgeK, posted by stargazer2 on December 5, 2007, at 11:11:53
Posted by Ledgekay on December 20, 2007, at 13:00:58
In reply to Re: Permanent (hypo)mania?, posted by amigan on December 10, 2007, at 4:34:25
> I wonder if anyone here has develop permanent or long lasting mania/hypomania from ADs.. I think i had that with Anafranil, even for many months after i stopped taking it.
>Is Anafranil considered an anitdepressant? What do you mean by hypomania? Do you mean inability to sit down, etc. That is what seems to have happened to me which can only be controlled by Neurontin. I also have tremor and agitation. Maybe there is more to this than they realize.
Posted by amigan on December 20, 2007, at 13:55:31
In reply to Re: Permanent (hypo)mania?, posted by Ledgekay on December 20, 2007, at 13:00:58
> > I wonder if anyone here has develop permanent or long lasting mania/hypomania from ADs.. I think i had that with Anafranil, even for many months after i stopped taking it.
> >
>
> Is Anafranil considered an anitdepressant?Of course. It's a tricyclic one (TCA)
> What do you mean by hypomania? Do you mean inability to sit down, etc.
No, the inability to sit down or stand still for more than a few second is called akathisia. Which is rarely caused by antidepressants and more frequently with antipsychotics It is frequently confused with agitation, but it's not.
Hypomania is frequently triggered by antidepressants.
If you search wikipedia for both terms you will find many information about these stuff.> That is what seems to have happened to me which can only be controlled by Neurontin. I also have tremor and agitation. Maybe there is more to this than they realize.
Neurontin acts as a sedative mood-stabilizer with no anti-akathisic action, afaik. So, perhaps you are experiencing hypomania. It's hard for me to say.
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