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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 3 to 27 of 35. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sentience on June 24, 2007, at 1:04:14
In reply to What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 23, 2007, at 22:24:59
My experience with commencing Nardil, was that the effect kicked in almost exactly at the 2 week mark on a dose of 45 mg per day.
It would be wise to wait at least another week on your current dose, to see if any effect kicks in before you consider increasing the dose, as it may cause unnecessary side-effects.
For the 1st two weeks of taking the little red pills (Nardil used to be red) it was like taking M&M's. When the effect finally did kick in, I awoke and felt an incredible lightness in my whole body, as if all the problems of the world had suddenly been obliterated. In retrospect it may have been a little too euphoric, but was welcome relief from the terrible depression that I had been experiencing.
Good luck & I hope it kicks in real soon for you.
> I've been on Nardil for 2 weeks, 15mgs, 3 times a day. I hasn't kicked in yet.
>
> I know it takes more like 4-6 weeks for it to kick in. However, I'm wondering if it will kick in on this dosage, or if I need to increase it for it to work?
>
> Will it kick in faster if I increase the dosage now? How much would be a good increase?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
Posted by Jedi on June 24, 2007, at 2:32:30
In reply to What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 23, 2007, at 22:24:59
Hi,
Everybody is different but in general two weeks is not going to give Nardil a chance to work. The most quoted efficacious dosage is 1mg/kg of body weight. It usually takes a while to titrate up to that dosage; then three to six weeks after that. I know the waiting on these med trials is a pain, especially when you are seriously depressed. If Nardil works for you, when it does kick in you will know it. It is not a subtle feeling. For me it was 60 to 75mg before Nardil initially worked. I then later went up to 90mg and 105mg, but I'm a large person. If a lower dosage will work for you the side effects should be less. Trial & error, I hate it, but that is about all we have to go on sometimes.
Be well,
Jedi
> I've been on Nardil for 2 weeks, 15mgs, 3 times a day. I hasn't kicked in yet.
>
> I know it takes more like 4-6 weeks for it to kick in. However, I'm wondering if it will kick in on this dosage, or if I need to increase it for it to work?
>
> Will it kick in faster if I increase the dosage now? How much would be a good increase?
>
> Thanks for any suggestions
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 7:39:52
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » girlnterrupted78, posted by Phillipa on June 23, 2007, at 23:08:35
Philippa, I appreciate your being kind all the time. But please don't reply if you don't have an answer to my question. If I haven't asked my doctor it's for a reason (I don't get to see him as often as I wish. I cannot afford it.)
I'm sorry, but I get very irritated when I see your responses, where most of the time you send me to find an answer elsewhere. If you don't know the answer, please just don't respond. And I'm not trying to be mean to you. I'm just really exasperated by your continuous lack of real help in your responses. Sorry.
Posted by FredPotter on June 24, 2007, at 16:05:01
In reply to What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 23, 2007, at 22:24:59
The following is a good site that might answer some of your questions
http://www.psychotropical.com/maois_full.shtml
He suggests that faintness on standing is a sign that you have reached the effective dose. I don't know why they should be linked however. I think 45mg is not enough for most people.
Fred
Posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2007, at 19:55:28
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 7:39:52
Sorry but it's impossible to provide you with an answer as so many variables are involved. For one we don't know your medical or psych history and each patient responds differently. And the internet if you google will provide a lot of answer as well as going to the archives here and typing in nardil. Sorry about the money but a phone call is that possible? love Phillipa
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 23:21:32
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » girlnterrupted78, posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2007, at 19:55:28
The main reason I come to this forum is to hear from people who've been there and done that. People who have been on Nardil for years, who have experience with it, who can give me their experience.
I don't expect anyone to give me expert advise. I want to hear simply from those whose personal experience has given them a glimpse into how the medication works.
Google? Why do you advise me to go to google? I have already googled Nardil. Why is google superior to psycho-babble? Are you discouraging me from posting here? I'm here to hear from others who've been on Nardil. This is the perfect place for me to ask such questions. You seem to be encouraging me to not use psycho-babble and rather go to google. Sorry, but I disagree, and I have freedom.
Every single reply I got was helpful, except for yours. I'm sorry. Like I said, this is not meant to be a mean post towards you. Just an explanation: what I am looking for at psycho-babble is experienced people who have been on Nardil. You've never been on Nardil, so you can't provide any kind of feedback on this. Nothing at all. So why not let it go and participate in threads where you have more experience?
Your only feebdack is for me to leave this forums and go to google or ask my doctor. Why can't you allow me to interact with people here? I have every right to do so. I've done online searches already, including google. Now I want to hear from people experienced with Nardil, and I have a right to do so. So please respect my right to participate in this forum and to talk to people who have been on Nardil.
Whether I call my doctor or not, that's really my business. I think you should just let me be and allow me to interact with members of this forum who know about Nardil. Thanks.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 1:59:27
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » Phillipa, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 23:21:32
>
>
> Google? Why do you advise me to go to google?My guess it's because it's a good start for a search on Nardil.
> I have already googled Nardil.
And Phillipa knew that how?
> Why is google superior to psycho-babble?
Who said anything about one being better than the other?
> Are you discouraging me from posting here?
Not from what I can see. I see a caring poster offering suggestions for other avenues and resources for obtaining the information you are seeking. I don't see her saying not to post here or that you won't find what you need here. In fact, Phillipa often goes out of her way to post to new folks who's threads aren't getting a response, just to make sure they feel welcome and to offer help. That behavior contrasts dramatically with your impression of what she's saying to you.
> Every single reply I got was helpful, except for yours. I'm sorry. Like I said, this is not meant to be a mean post towards you. Just an explanation: what I am looking for at psycho-babble is experienced people who have been on Nardil. You've never been on Nardil, so you can't provide any kind of feedback on this. Nothing at all. So why not let it go and participate in threads where you have more experience?
Another suggestion would be for you to not read any posts from Phillipa if you feel they would not be likely to meet your requirements. Phillipa also has freedom to post when and where she likes. This solution does not infringe on her freedom, nor yours, as you can choose what to read or not read.
>
> Your only feedback is for me to leave this forumsWhere does she say that???
> and go to google or ask my doctor.
Pretty standard suggestions from a wide variety of Babblers.
> Why can't you allow me to interact with people here?
Allow? Allow???? I can't imagine how Phillipa could possibly have the power to allow or disallow your posting here. I'm sorry, I don't follow your reasoning to this conclusion at all.
> So please respect my right to participate in this forum and to talk to people who have been on Nardil.
I haven't seen anyone preventing you from participating here. I haven't seen any evidence of your rights being trampled on, either. Again, I can't follow your reasoning to this conclusion.
> Whether I call my doctor or not, that's really my business. I think you should just let me be and allow me to interact with members of this forum who know about Nardil. Thanks.Again, allow? Let you be? Phillipa making a post on your thread somehow prevents you from participating and interacting with others? Is she in some way interfering with your ability to interact with the select others you wish to interact with? I'm scratching my head lost at this one.
One of the primary rules of thumb here is to take what you need and leave the rest, because there is a wide variety of information available. Some good. Some bad. Some dangerous. Some ehhh, okay for you but not for me. Add to that the author, and it's a crap shoot a lot of the time. Expecting every post to you to be of a certain quality and from a certain type of poster seems like it would be just setting yourself up for disappointment.
gg, Nardil user last four years
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » girlnterrupted78, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 1:59:27
gardenergirl, it was really unnecessary for you to interpret Philipa's post. I'm sure Philipa is a grown woman and can speak for herself.
My point is that I am here to get help from members who have been on Nardil and my question was on what dose I could start seeing results--I hoped other Nardil users could share in their experience.
I already said I'm not trying to be mean to Philipa. But I don't understand why is she sending me to a different search engine; if I'm here it's for a reason. I hadn't even received a reply from anyone yet. It felt unwelcoming and was unhelpful.
All I can find in google is general info about Nardil, not the kind of personal experience I can find in psycho-babble and that I implied I was looking for in this thread. If I'm participating in a support forum where there's dozens of Nardil users, I hoped to get help from those users; I find it strange that she happens to be one of the people who has never been on Nardil and instead of offering knowledge or experience, she sends me to a search engine where I cannot get the same personal experiences I look for at psycho-babble.
Please allow people to express themselves freely. It really was unnecessary that you tried to make this a battle. Like I said, I was never disrespectful to Philipa. I simply questioned her inability to recognize that I needed support from people at THIS forum. I didn't need to be sent away to a different site, or reminded that I should ask my doctor, those are things that any adult knows. Even if I asked my doc, my aim here was to ask other Nardil users for their experience. No more arguing please.
Posted by stargazer2 on June 25, 2007, at 9:59:06
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
GI, I went from 45 to 60 in the last 2 weeks and we think I should stay there another week or two. I'm not getting a clear cut improvement but rather a gradual one which is good although the very first time I took Nardil in 1987, the transformation was distinctly clearer, so I do question the efficacy of the new pills (2003) made by Pfizer despite them denying any change in the primary formula, despite changing the coating and affecting the dissolving of the pills.
I have heard of the 1 mg/kg formula. Divide your weight by 2.2 and that gives you the mg you should be on, i.e. if you weigh 150/2.2=68 or approx 70 mg.
My pdoc thinks lowering my dosage back to 45 mg may be a good idea since I did have an early brightening of my mood in the second week but it dissipated rather quickly. Since I am still having some mild pitting edema of my ankles, he is concerned about that side effect, but I had it at 45 mg too, so perhaps I will go to 45 or even 30 to see at what dose the edema disappears. My early am lightheadedness is better with taking 15 mg in the am and 45 mg at night, and to help with afternoon lethargy which has improved somewhat but is still present.
That's my story for the last 6-7 weeks.
Stargazer
Posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
> gardenergirl, it was really unnecessary for you to interpret Philipa's post.
Perhaps it was necessary for me.
> I find it strange that she [suggests I try--(edit mine)] a search engine ... .And thus, you could leave versus take her suggestions, I would think. Perhaps you've never posted on a forum where the range of replies varies?
> Please allow people to express themselves freely.I have no idea why you would think I could allow or disallow your self-expression. But thanks for asking, I guess.
> It really was unnecessary that you tried to make this a battle.
Gee, I thought it was a discussion. Shoot, I guess I must have forgotten again to take off my armor and broadsword before posting, danged ADHD. I can see how that might suggest a battle, sorry. ;)
> I simply questioned her inability to recognize that I needed support from people at THIS forum.
I wonder if that er, expressed interpretation might influence the likelihood of others venturing to post to you, but that remains to be seen, eh?
> I didn't need to be sent away to a different site, or reminded that I should ask my doctor, those are things that any adult knows.
Just friendly advice, you might want to prepare yourself for similar answers down the road. It's not uncommon to find those suggestions within the advice that others post here.
regards,
gg
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 13:32:44
In reply to About replies » girlnterrupted78, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
We can agree to disagree, but I don't understand why you had to address me twice. I received your babble-mail before you posted either message on this forum. In there, you suggested to keep these kind of conversations private. But then you come and make them public. I don't understand why you give advice but then you do the opposite.
Anyway. I'm just expressing my feelings freely about how I feel about some people's approach to advising. I think I can do that without having to be reprimanded.
Posted by 10derHeart on June 25, 2007, at 14:40:32
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 6:39:58
>I'm sorry, but I get very irritated when I see your responses
>I'm just really exasperated by your continuous lack of real help in your responses.
>Every single reply I got was helpful, except for yours
>It felt unwelcoming and was unhelpful.> Your only feebdack is for me to leave this forums
> It really was unnecessary that you tried to make this a battle.Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't jump to conclusions about others.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please see the FAQ: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Follow-ups regarding these issues should be directed to Admin and should of course be civil. Dr. Bob has oversight over deputy decisions, and he may choose a different action.
Respectfully,
10derHeart, acting as deputy for Dr. Bob
Posted by FredPotter on June 25, 2007, at 15:35:08
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in? » Phillipa, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 24, 2007, at 23:21:32
Hey Phillipa have you reconsidered trying Nardil? I think the weight gain may be wearing off. Mind you I'm on a meat and fat + green veg diet. It really is the AD that's done the biz for me though. The sex thing is a nuisance but they say that wears off too eventually. Oh dear, perhaps the AD effect will wear off too, as my body doesn't know which is the desired effect and which are side effects Fred
Posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
In reply to Re: About replies » gardenergirl, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 25, 2007, at 13:32:44
> We can agree to disagree, but I don't understand why you had to address me twice. I received your babble-mail before you posted either message on this forum. In there, you suggested to keep these kind of conversations private. But then you come and make them public. I don't understand why you give advice but then you do the opposite.
>
> Anyway. I'm just expressing my feelings freely about how I feel about some people's approach to advising. I think I can do that without having to be reprimanded.For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I think Phillipa is addicted to this board (so am I) but the majority of her postings don't offer any guidance whatsoever. It's almost as if she reflexively replies to messages just for the sake of replying, without having any direct experience with the topic being discussed. I've made that point before and then apologized to her about it. But I think I should have stuck to my original point.
I think she means well, but the majority of her posts just end up being irritating.
Malcolm
Posted by FredPotter on June 25, 2007, at 15:43:42
In reply to Re: What dose or Nardil needed to kick in?, posted by stargazer2 on June 25, 2007, at 9:59:06
I like having a drink at the weekend (sometimes) but find that with Nardil I just blob and fall asleep. Would anyone comment on the idea of giving up Nardil for a couple of days? If it's done it's work in disabling MAO and MAO takes a while to build up again, I don't see why this would present any problems. That is apart from the GABA effect (but I'm sure alcohol would see to that)
Fred
Posted by steel on June 25, 2007, at 16:46:56
In reply to About replies » girlnterrupted78, posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 10:36:15
Phillipa has contacted me on a personal level a few times.Perhaps this is the case as well.
There are a few problems here,first i think phillipa is more sensative then most imagine.As in my case when i presented this issue it brought upon a storm down on me from many,when in with all truthfullness i can say i meant it as a concern.
I have close friends here,and id expect and HOPE theyd tell me if i were posting too much and possably doing myself more harm than good.
IT NEVER was a insult on phillipas character,only a low life form would come here to make someone feel bad,and i dont believe this here also is that case as well.
I gave my opinion on the situation often,as well as never ignore a email from her as well,but that is simply what i saw.
My concern is this problem seems to come up a bit,and its almost instamatic that certain people respond almost in a defense mode.
Perhaps if the issue continues to come up,you might want to take in the possability that there is a problem,i mean how many times does a birdie have to plopper on your car before u move it,lol.
So again maybe counting up all the times its been an issue,perhaps the powers that be might be may i suggest wrong? on the response?
I dont know,i just dont think its a matter of comming to her defense,rather phillipa needs to understand no one is trying to hurt her,rather looking out for a persons best interest.
I know its easy to get caught up on this group,and i sometimes do and see it and pull back,its honestly in of course my own eyes not a place you want to become tight knitted in,make friends from it to use for support offline,thats a great option,as well as phillipa,do you know how much your responses are probuably needed in social,im betting your moral and social support is definatly a asset to that board as well.
Either way its a shame when anyone here is feeling as if its not a place to come,it totaly defeats the purpose,right or wrong we need to remeber people look for understanding and since thats what is here,we should in no way ever make someone feel this is not a place for them to get that,EVER.
Just my two cents.
Posted by Deputy Racer on June 25, 2007, at 16:58:44
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
> >
> For what it's worth, I completely agree with you. I think Phillipa is addicted to this board (so am I) but the majority of her postings don't offer any guidance whatsoever. It's almost as if she reflexively replies to messages just for the sake of replying, without having any direct experience with the topic being discussed.
>
> I think she means well, but the majority of her posts just end up being irritating.
>
> MalcolmPlease don't post anything which could lead others to feel accused or put down. In this case, since I issued a PBC to you about exactly the same issue less than two months ago, I'm going to block you from posting for a week. I'm very sorry to do this.
Any follow ups should be directed to the Admin board, and should themselves be civil. If anyone has any questions about what is meant by civil, please read the FAQ, located at http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
Dr Bob has ultimate authority over any administrative issues, and may at any time revise or reverse any actions taken by a deputy.
Deputy Racer
Posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by malcolm664 on June 25, 2007, at 15:41:13
why is this "issue" coming up again? not a personal comment to you, but this "issue" is irritating. philipa deals with an illness that is very disabling for the long term, and she doesn't have the option of just returning to life again like many people, for example, how many standard bipolars do, after some set out treatment. if she is on the computer a lot, enough of us understand and empathize, even if some others don't. many people are very grateful for philipa's participation here, many, and that's what matters. any "irritation" over this, in whomever, can really be dealt with privately on their own by whoever individual person or people who feel they are experiencing it, and i respectfully suggest they just get over it. this forum has a lot of people on it, and it's for everyone who finds this place useful. at least that is how i interpret things.
that is my opinion, not an attack,
thank you if you consider it.
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2007, at 19:24:12
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by iforgotmypassword on June 25, 2007, at 18:47:13
Hey guys I am very interested in learning all I can about all meds as so far no work for me. To Fred and we are friends nardil is an option collecting info and also my prior work as a psch nurse nationally certified makes me want to gather as much knowledge as possible. And you are all real people so your experiences are very important to me. But seriously I check my e-mails in the am and save babble for nighttime. Never will find on the male threads as I respect their privacy. But do all posters know that if they can't find the med they are looking for the Dr. Bob google is not google per say but the achieves of all the posters through the years who have posted on a med. Check at the bottom and type in a med name and all threads new and old will appear by the posters of this board. You know I e-mail with a lot of posters and there are some who have left after a med has worked so we discuss aspects of side effects other options. This is a valuable place to come to. And I do admitt to some OCD hence the luvox but they say OCD makes a good nurse or doc. Love Phillipa and I'm fine.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 25, 2007, at 21:02:29
In reply to Re: About replies, posted by steel on June 25, 2007, at 16:46:56
>i mean how many times does a birdie have to plopper on your car before u move it,lol.
>Exactly, you move it. You don't shoot the bird. The bird is free to plop where it wants to. You are free to move the car, aka ignore a post, if you don't like the plop.
gg
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
In reply to Please be civil » girlnterrupted78, posted by 10derHeart on June 25, 2007, at 14:40:32
"Please don't post anything that could lead others to feel accused or put down, and please don't jump to conclusions about others."
I haven't. Since the beginning, I specified this was not an attack on Philipa. But I think an environment where people are discouraged from speaking freely and honestly is an unhealthy environment. I wrote what I did because that's honestly how I feel. I enjoy sharing my progress, my medical trials, my symptoms, and everything that provides others with a better understanding of the illness we suffer from.
But I don't enjoy being bossed around and treated like someone who doesn't already know that google or doctors exist. We all know about those options, and we are all here to share our trials and errors. I asked how long it's taken others for Nardil to kick in. Philipa has never been on Nardil.
I don't see how my being honest is such an infraction. People seem to get censored/silenced here when they speak honestly about how they feel. In real life situations, people speak up and social rules are followed. Not sure why not here.
Oh, and by the way, being honest doesn't equal being uncivil. Thanks.
Posted by gardenergirl on June 26, 2007, at 0:39:52
In reply to Re: Please be civil » 10derHeart, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
As per 10derheart's request for where to direct follow-ups. Here is a link to my reply there: http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/admin/20070605/msgs/765847.html
Regards,
gg
Posted by stargazer2 on June 26, 2007, at 13:15:44
In reply to Re: Please be civil » 10derHeart, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 0:08:29
Posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 13:57:43
In reply to Can we get back to the medical issues? (nm), posted by stargazer2 on June 26, 2007, at 13:15:44
Yes, we should, stargazer2.
I somehow felt really good for a couple of days on Nardil. But then the feeling went away. I wondered why. I am taking 45mgs and I'm currently in the middle of my third week.
One day, by accident, I ingested an additional tablet of Nardil, which made it 60mgs. I felt a slight improvement. I don't know if this means I should ask my doctor to increase my dose. Maybe it will kick in faster if I go up to 60-75mgs? I've been thinking about it.
When did Nardil kick in for you and under what dose? (Sorry if you already answered this, I just can't remember and I have limited time to search this website due to excessive amount of work.) Thanks.
Posted by FredPotter on June 26, 2007, at 15:30:14
In reply to Re: Can we get back to the medical issues? » stargazer2, posted by girlnterrupted78 on June 26, 2007, at 13:57:43
I must have a good Dr as he told me to adjust the dose myself, understanding that 90mg was the maximum. I was beginning to slip back a bit on 60mg so now I'm on 75mg and feel great. My body weight suggests I should take 90. The sexual dysfunction is a drag, but I'm losing a bit of weight. I don't know if this side effect is wearing off or whether it's my high meat, low carb diet. I think you should try raising the dose though, but what do I know?
Fred
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