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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 22 of 22. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 19:54:22
I'm just curious, is withdrawal more painful going off opiates or benzos? This might get moved to withdrawal...
-Monte
Posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 20:35:46
In reply to Curious......, posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 19:54:22
Funny you should ask - I'm withdrawing from codeine right now (and tianeptine and nicergoline). I've withdrawn from both opiates and benzos, once cold turkey from 800mg tramadol and ~8mg clonazepam. I find opiates easier to withdraw from, benzo withdrawal hit something deep inside but opiates are more superficial (for me at least). Also the dose plays an important part, like the difference in pain caused between falling off a cliff and falling off a stool. The former is horrendously painful, you end up a mushy wreck and it takes a good while for the wounds to heal. During the last clonazepam withdrawal I vowed that if I ever made it through I would never take another benzo and put myself through all that suffering again. The latter is certainly uncomfortable, I feel grotty and irritable but this passes in a few days and it's not incapacitating. I was taking ~47mg codeine a day until yesterday.
Q
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 20:41:22
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Crazy Horse, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 20:35:46
> Funny you should ask - I'm withdrawing from codeine right now (and tianeptine and nicergoline). I've withdrawn from both opiates and benzos, once cold turkey from 800mg tramadol and ~8mg clonazepam. I find opiates easier to withdraw from, benzo withdrawal hit something deep inside but opiates are more superficial (for me at least). Also the dose plays an important part, like the difference in pain caused between falling off a cliff and falling off a stool. The former is horrendously painful, you end up a mushy wreck and it takes a good while for the wounds to heal. During the last clonazepam withdrawal I vowed that if I ever made it through I would never take another benzo and put myself through all that suffering again. The latter is certainly uncomfortable, I feel grotty and irritable but this passes in a few days and it's not incapacitating. I was taking ~47mg codeine a day until yesterday.
>
> QWOW!! Hang in there man..best of luck.
-Monte
Posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2007, at 22:35:01
In reply to Re: Curious......, posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 20:41:22
Quintal didn't you cold turkey l4mg of klonopin or was that someone else? Love Phillipa
Posted by zmg on May 11, 2007, at 23:58:13
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Crazy Horse, posted by Quintal on May 11, 2007, at 20:35:46
Wow. Ouch Quintal.
Crazy Horse, are you planning to detox from an benzo? You don't mention what kind of dose or length of time? I detoxed after 2 years at about 30 milligrams (30-50 often, but 30 usually through the work week). For me it wasn't horrible, but I was very careful to make sure I could detox at a pace I planned out to be conservative before hand (about 2.5 milligrams per week, but that was just a number I picked).
My only frame of reference would be nicotine and Ritalin/Methylphenidate, both of which I found more difficult (I was abusing Methylphenidate).
If you are planning to detox I which you the best of luck (or in general, anyway).
Quintal, I'd be curious to know how fast (or slowly) you'd withdraw? Please be good to yourself. (:
Posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:11:20
In reply to Re: Curious......, posted by Phillipa on May 11, 2007, at 22:35:01
No, I've never taken 14mg as a dose Phillipa. You're probably confusing me with becksA that was taking 14mg prescribed by his pdoc a while ago and decided to withdraw. I have taken as much as 20mg Klonopin and quit cold turkey straight off that, but I'd only been taking 20mg for about a week so my actual tolerance was closer to 8mg which was my usual dose at that point.
Q
Posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:24:41
In reply to Re: Curious......, posted by zmg on May 11, 2007, at 23:58:13
Hi zmg,
I always quit cold turkey - never had the patience to do those careful, structured taper thingies (even though that is what I preach to other people looking to withdraw). I'm fine right now, it's just as though I have a cold. It'll be okay anyway since my dad is going to get me some more today at the pharmacy when he goes shopping (pharmacists are more liberal in dispensing codeine to respectable-looking 66 year old men - complaints of 'bad back' and arthritis pain are so much more believable).
Q
Posted by zmg on May 12, 2007, at 0:37:47
In reply to Re: Curious...... » zmg, posted by Quintal on May 12, 2007, at 0:24:41
As long as you're well. I like the easier approach, and if you'd been taking something more prone to adverse rebound effect...you know the drill. (:
Tramadol is the most we have access to here and even that requires a walk across the border (land of the free indeed). Didn't find it very effective though.
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 2:40:12
In reply to Curious......, posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 19:54:22
Opiates are more painful to withdraw from, and benzos are more fearful.
Posted by linkadge on May 12, 2007, at 7:47:53
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Crazy Horse, posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 2:40:12
I would say benzos are overall easier for me. Vigorous exercise helps most opiate withdrawl symtpoms, but I can't to much to help benzo withdrawl symtpoms.
Linkadge
Posted by saturn on May 12, 2007, at 8:54:29
In reply to Re: Curious......, posted by linkadge on May 12, 2007, at 7:47:53
Someone once told me that as bad as withdrawal from both is, with opiod withdrawal you may *feel* like you're going to die (but won't), whereas with benzo withdrawal you actually *can* die.
Posted by linkadge on May 12, 2007, at 9:34:20
In reply to Re: Curious......, posted by saturn on May 12, 2007, at 8:54:29
I don't think opiate withdrawl is neurotoxic, wherase abrupt benzo withdrawl can be excitotoxic.
Linkadge
Posted by Crazy Horse on May 12, 2007, at 16:44:47
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Crazy Horse, posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 2:40:12
> Opiates are more painful to withdraw from, and benzos are more fearful.
>
>
Can you explain please?-Monte
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 16:55:56
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Declan, posted by Crazy Horse on May 12, 2007, at 16:44:47
Sure Monte
Withdrawal from strong opiates is way more painful than withdrwal from benzos for me, but fear, panic and tension are not the *dominant* feelings. The dominant feeling is being very sick, somewhat like a heavy flu.
Benzo withdrawal is more of a tension, fear, anxiety adventure...sort of launching yourself on a journey into a country of fear.
Take your pick. I'm no good at either.
Posted by Quintillian on May 12, 2007, at 17:48:31
In reply to My sickness grows upon me » Crazy Horse, posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 16:55:56
Yeah, I wouldn't want to withdraw from high doses of strong opiates like Heroin. As it is I feel all achey with shooting pains, as if I have a cold. Why is it your eyes and nose start streaming?
Q
Posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 17:56:50
In reply to Re: My sickness grows upon me » Declan, posted by Quintillian on May 12, 2007, at 17:48:31
Hello Quintillian
I'm not sure why that is.
The recurrence of biological rhythms seems to mean that eyes will water, nose will run, diahhrea will ensue, and vomiting too.
Then there is pain.This is why opiates are such wonderful medicines for the flu.
Posted by Phillipa on May 12, 2007, at 19:35:24
In reply to Re: My sickness grows upon me » Quintillian, posted by Declan on May 12, 2007, at 17:56:50
Suppose cold turkeying valium might cause a seizure but they did where I used to work. I few days of high dosea and then each dose went lower and lower in less than a week from about 70mg or more to zero when they left. Love Phillipa ps I did this once and felt wonderful seriously. Normal.
Posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 2:10:25
In reply to Curious......, posted by Crazy Horse on May 11, 2007, at 19:54:22
> I'm just curious, is withdrawal more painful going off opiates or benzos? This might get moved to withdrawal...
>
> -MonteOpiate withdrawl is horrific - nothing compared to benzos in my experience. I once was without my hydrocodone and I was in the most emotional anguish one could ever imagine.
Posted by kaleidoscope on May 23, 2007, at 15:19:06
In reply to Re: Curious...... » Crazy Horse, posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 2:10:25
Hi Jerry
Do you think the hydrocodone is still helping? You seem to be severely depressed despite taking the hydrocodone so I assume it's not helping you anymore. Are you considering tapering off it?
Regards
Posted by Sigismund on May 23, 2007, at 17:16:31
In reply to Re: Curious...... » JerryPharmStudent, posted by kaleidoscope on May 23, 2007, at 15:19:06
about chronic opiate use is that it is like taking out a loan.
Once you have, you need to keep paying the interest to prevent foreclosure.
And eventually you may have to repay the principal.But sometimes you just need some cash.
Tha hardest thing about opiate withdrawal is the emotional side of things.
Posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 20:27:32
In reply to Re: Curious...... » JerryPharmStudent, posted by kaleidoscope on May 23, 2007, at 15:19:06
> Hi Jerry
>
> Do you think the hydrocodone is still helping? You seem to be severely depressed despite taking the hydrocodone so I assume it's not helping you anymore. Are you considering tapering off it?
>
> Regards
>
>
You'd think that it may not be working - but it really is still working. But it's more of a surface med - helps then wears off like a stimulant. I need something to help the bottom from falling out.
Posted by JerryPharmStudent on May 23, 2007, at 20:29:55
In reply to My 2 bob's worth, posted by Sigismund on May 23, 2007, at 17:16:31
> about chronic opiate use is that it is like taking out a loan.
> Once you have, you need to keep paying the interest to prevent foreclosure.
> And eventually you may have to repay the principal.
>
> But sometimes you just need some cash.
>
> Tha hardest thing about opiate withdrawal is the emotional side of things.I agree. As I was saying - I think it's more of a "surface" treatment - meaning it helps really well but then wears off like a stimulant. However, after 3 years of being on it - I still have not grown tolerant to its effects. However, if I were ever to go off of it- it surely would be emotionally painful (and physically if not done very very slowly).
This is the end of the thread.
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