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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:40:49
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:02:59
Hi S
>I've seen articles on clonazepam being
peculiarly difficult to withdraw from.I suppose the problem for some people is that they've been taking high doses (without even realising it) - given clonazepam's high potency.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:42:47
In reply to Thanks » dbc, posted by gardenergirl on February 6, 2007, at 13:44:08
I think there's been a LOT of misunderstanding in this thread. Quintal's original post seems to have been misinterpreted, leading to much anger and confusion :(
I hope everyone is ok.
Ed
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2007, at 16:45:13
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks!, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 16:17:37
You know a long time ago a pdoc when my thyroid required higher doses of a benzo till regulated and I quickly dropped the xanax when this happened said to me a benzo is a benzo and never told me one lasts longer the another hence I never ever had a problem switching from one to the other it's a lot psychological too at least with me. If I'm tolerant so be it. At least I won't get diabetes or the horrible withdrawal you read about with a lot of the ad's. That's my take on it and I agree a lot with bassman. Love Phlllipa
Posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:25:46
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks! » ed_uk, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:29:21
"Also, listen up PEOPLE WITH COGNITIVE PROBLEMS on clonazepam-- it is an *amnesic*-- that means it interferes with memory."
All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
Posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 17:36:16
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:25:46
> All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
Uh yeah, every last benzo is capable of causing your brain to stop encoding short term memories. Xanax is famous for this especially with recreational users who drink with it.
Posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 17:47:20
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by dbc on February 6, 2007, at 17:36:16
> > All benzos can interfere with memory, this is not unique to clon.
>
> Uh yeah, every last benzo is capable of causing your brain to stop encoding short term memories. Xanax is famous for this especially with recreational users who drink with it.Wikipedia (which I grant is not the be-all of
authoritative medical literature) says that
clonazepam has a stronger "amnesic" effect
than other benzos. I have not made a study
of all the other benzos, but I do recall some
people here saying that clonazepam affects their
memory or makes their thinking fuzzy.Squiggles
Posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:58:04
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 17:47:20
> Wikipedia (which I grant is not the be-all of
> authoritative medical literature) says that
> clonazepam has a stronger "amnesic" effect
> than other benzos. I have not made a study
> of all the other benzos, but I do recall some
> people here saying that clonazepam affects their
> memory or makes their thinking fuzzy.
>
> Squigglesrohypnol and halcion I have found to be really bad for me WRT memory. halcion caused retrograde amnesia; rohypnol is well know as a date rape drug
and otherwise used in some countries as a pre med for some procedures so people do not remember them.I think it is not just benzos but effects on GABA that account for the memory deficits; there are other classes of meds that effect GABA. ex.
baclofen and AED's.
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:42:59
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » bassman, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 15:38:15
Aaaah reason arrives in the form of uk ed. Thanks you; that explains lot. You always add a lot to discussions, even pie-throwing contests like this one. :>}
I hope things have been going well for you. I still take Xanax. :>}
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:46:49
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by Squiggles on February 6, 2007, at 16:16:28
Sorry for the confusion which I probably created. My "story" was in the e-mail in this thread-I was talking about Quintal's story...which I read, but couldn't find again. I mean, it's right on this page, I just can't find it again.
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:58:00
In reply to It is unfortunate, posted by ed_uk on February 6, 2007, at 16:42:47
You've got that right. I felt pretty attacked, as I tried to say reasonable tactfully... it took years for me to get to the point of , "oh, well, it's meds or hiding under a rock". So someone saying that everyone becomes an addict that takes benzos, when that is a sore spot anyway, wasn't well received by me, at least. I don't think we can be so judgmental of the way others need to treat their illness. And I personally think benzos are lots safer than, say, Effexor, or Zyprexa. That's just my opinion, of course.
As I said, you're a really positive addition to this board in many ways. Thanks.
bassman
Posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 19:13:47
In reply to Re: Just a question, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:46:49
Posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 21:46:34
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! A lot of rocks!, posted by notfred on February 6, 2007, at 17:58:04
When I had surgery recently I asked the anaesthetist what she was putting in my drip before the op, and she said that I was being given a benzo.
They told me later I was concious and looking around for quite some time (minutes at least) and during this time I have zero memory.
Probably some benzo they have available for this purpose.
Posted by Phillipa on February 6, 2007, at 21:48:42
In reply to Benzos and encoding of memory, posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 21:46:34
Declan probably versed wasn't it lovely? Seriously this time. Love PJ
Posted by yxibow on February 7, 2007, at 3:03:34
In reply to Benzos and encoding of memory, posted by Declan on February 6, 2007, at 21:46:34
> When I had surgery recently I asked the anaesthetist what she was putting in my drip before the op, and she said that I was being given a benzo.
>
> They told me later I was concious and looking around for quite some time (minutes at least) and during this time I have zero memory.
> Probably some benzo they have available for this purpose.yup.. Versed.
Posted by bassman on February 7, 2007, at 5:16:59
In reply to Re: Benzos and encoding of memory » Declan, posted by yxibow on February 7, 2007, at 3:03:34
I had a procedure and they used Versed and I asked the nurse in post-op if I could leave, that I was just fine. I told her I liked the Mama's and Papas song they were playing. I had to stay a bit longer:>} (no music in post-op). People leaving after the procedure with Versed looked like extras from "Monster Movie Matinee". It was a very nice feeling-the urge to analyze anything in the external world was gone...maybe that's what it is like to be a bird; just look around...
Posted by Declan on February 7, 2007, at 11:51:35
In reply to Re: Benzos and encoding of memory, posted by bassman on February 7, 2007, at 5:16:59
To begin with I thought PJ was talking about the rhythmical metre of my post; didn't have a clue what Yxie meant, but now I feel that perhaps there is a drug called 'Verse'.
Is that right?
Posted by Larry Hoover on February 7, 2007, at 12:34:08
In reply to Versed? » bassman, posted by Declan on February 7, 2007, at 11:51:35
> To begin with I thought PJ was talking about the rhythmical metre of my post; didn't have a clue what Yxie meant, but now I feel that perhaps there is a drug called 'Verse'.
>
> Is that right?Cute, Dec. ;-)
Versed is a brand name for midazolam. It's pronounced as "Ver Said".
Lar
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2007, at 14:51:39
In reply to Versed? » bassman, posted by Declan on February 7, 2007, at 11:51:35
Hi Dec
Midazolam (Versed, Hypnovel) is a benzodiazepine which is usually given by injection (into a vein or, less commonly, a muscle). Benzos produce very powerful sedation and amnesia when injected into a vein. Intravenous diazepam produces a similar effect to midazolam but tends to irritate the vein. As a single dose, 5mg of intravenous midazolam is approximately equivalent to 15mg intravenous diazepam.
Ed
Posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2007, at 14:54:55
In reply to Re: It is unfortunate, posted by bassman on February 6, 2007, at 18:58:00
Hi Bassman
Thanks for the compliment :)
>So someone saying that everyone becomes an addict that takes benzos.........
I'm certain that Quintal doesn't believe that :)
Ed
Posted by Phillipa on February 7, 2007, at 19:42:29
In reply to Re: Versed? » Declan, posted by ed_uk on February 7, 2007, at 14:51:39
Ed that's all???? How come it feels so lovely? Love PJ O
Posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 22:29:56
In reply to Re: Ashton Rocks! » valene, posted by Quintal on February 5, 2007, at 13:36:29
i take benzos at a low dose for many years now
my gp and i decided that i was the only one in nyc who cut back on my dose of xanax after 9/11benzos work for me and i am lucky to have a pdoc who is not benzo phobic
if some people get addicted to benzos the doctor monitoring them should notice and act accordinglybut others who need the benzos should not be denied
i have been sober for 18 years
i think it is fine for people to drink -- not me -- but people who are not alcoholics
in fact, i think it's good for people
Posted by Greif on February 8, 2007, at 9:41:40
In reply to benzo-phobia, posted by elanor roosevelt on February 7, 2007, at 22:29:56
I have been taking Klon for two years at the same dose of 2mg. I am starting a taper based on Ashton guide. MDs have no clue on pshcho-pharmacology and will taper to rapidly. There are many thousands of victims of Benzo protcated w/d syndrome. This is not anti-benzo but empirical data. Benzos should be used only on occsion and never longer than 14 days. They are woderful at first. This is cyberspace and many posting on here have chronic psychiatric problems. Otherwise they would not be here posting daily. I would not take advise that benzos are ok for daily use from anyone on a cyber psych board. You have no idea who they are and medical facts conflict with advocacy of their daily use. This is agreat board to get info on side effects of drugs and try and find a commonality of personal experience. If a qualified psychiatrist prescribes regular benzo use after all other methods have failed, that is different. To take them to feel better is a mistake. It has turned many lives upside down and takes years to recover once they are discontinued. Many never fully recover. So my point is that doctors arn't Benzo-phobic. They are informed and responsible.
Posted by notfred on February 8, 2007, at 10:06:05
In reply to Re: benzo-phobia, posted by Greif on February 8, 2007, at 9:41:40
When you say things like this:
"Benzos should be used only on occsion and never longer than 14 days."
You seem to be advising people:
"I would not take advise that benzos are ok for daily use from anyone on a cyber psych board. "
I prefer to stick to posting about my own experiences vs. advising others.
Posted by yxibow on February 8, 2007, at 13:14:06
In reply to Re: benzo-phobia, posted by Greif on February 8, 2007, at 9:41:40
> I have been taking Klon for two years at the same dose of 2mg. I am starting a taper based on Ashton guide. MDs have no clue on pshcho-pharmacology and will taper to rapidly. There are many thousands of victims of Benzo protcated w/d syndrome. This is not anti-benzo but empirical data. Benzos should be used only on occsion and never longer than 14 days. They are woderful at first. This is cyberspace and many posting on here have chronic psychiatric problems. Otherwise they would not be here posting daily. I would not take advise that benzos are ok for daily use from anyone on a cyber psych board. You have no idea who they are and medical facts conflict with advocacy of their daily use. This is agreat board to get info on side effects of drugs and try and find a commonality of personal experience. If a qualified psychiatrist prescribes regular benzo use after all other methods have failed, that is different. To take them to feel better is a mistake. It has turned many lives upside down and takes years to recover once they are discontinued. Many never fully recover. So my point is that doctors arn't Benzo-phobic. They are informed and responsible.
While being careful about "jumping in the fray", I would have to agree that there is a generalization in that sentence."To take them to feel better..."
That could be interpreted two different ways.. abuse, is abuse, but "feeling better" is something we all stride to do and if it is better living through chemistry, so be.
I am sorry that benzodiazepines have made a mess of your life in your opinion; maybe they aren't the best medicines to be prescribed to you personally.
Its a tradeoff between fatigue and sanity, but not having the benzodiazepines that I take would make my visual Somatiform disorder much worse, and could be equally dangerous (can't see straight, want to stay in bed all day, etc.)
So we all are individuals, that's all I'm saying.-- tidings.
Posted by Squiggles on February 8, 2007, at 13:23:07
In reply to Re: benzo-phobia » Greif, posted by yxibow on February 8, 2007, at 13:14:06
Well, as i've said before Xanax is perfect
for situational anxiety and prescribed on
an as-needed basis (though it turns out that
the cause of my anxiety was another drug and
i did not need Xanax every day). Infact, I recall a pharmacist telling me not to take these every day. But there are a number of reasons why they ended up being necessary every day- one the underlying medical condition and the other--pure adddiction.I suppose for every-day disorders such as
GAD (something which i think should be put in the speculative files of medicine) clonazepam or a long-life benzo IS more appropriate. My dr. has been very careful, but i don't think everyone has the same policy in practice.Squiggles
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