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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 15 of 15. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
According to Wikipedia, Vanoxerine is in clinical trials in the US.
<< http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanoxerine >>
I'm skeptical that this will ever be approved.
My question is: Why aren't DA reuptake inhibitors (i.e. Phenmetrazine and Amineptine) illegal in the US, whereas psychostimulants are widely available? Why is it acceptable for people with ADHD to take drugs that are highly addictive [or, hell, even anxiety disorders], whereas if a drug for depression has addictive potential, the FDA automatically wants to shut it down? This is why I am shocked that Parnate is available, as it has definite abuse potential.
Is the FDA just afraid that if they start approving "addictive" antidepressants that they will lend credence to those who erroneously claim that SSRIs are addictive?
Posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:51:00
In reply to Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
> According to Wikipedia, Vanoxerine is in clinical trials in the US.
>
> << http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Vanoxerine >>
>
> I'm skeptical that this will ever be approved.
>
> My question is: Why aren't DA reuptake inhibitors (i.e. Phenmetrazine and Amineptine) illegal in the USEr, that should be why ARE DA reuptake inhibitors illegal
Posted by ed_uk on February 2, 2007, at 15:06:26
In reply to Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
Apparantly, in the US, prescribing addictive amphetamines (Adderall) to children is perfectly acceptable whereas prescribing addictive drugs for depression in adults is not.
Ed
Posted by Quintal on February 2, 2007, at 15:29:58
In reply to Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
I think Parnate is legal mainly because it is so rarely used, and even then under close supervision of a psychiatrist. Also, the dietary and drug restrictions would put many casual abusers off. It's also difficult to get hold of - I've never seen it for sale on an online pharmacy.
I suppose depression is so widespread and easy to fake that anyone could claim to be depressed just to have access to euphoric drugs, whereas there is usually more thorough testing for ADHD (in the UK at least, where stimulants are rarely used).
Q
Posted by psychobot5000 on February 2, 2007, at 16:49:22
In reply to Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
I agree that tranylcypromine has too many inconvenient side-effects and dangers to become a widespread drug of abuse--so it's more or less a non-issue.
As for the rest...I think a large part of the reason that amphetamines and methylphenidate are used widely, and all the rest are not is that those two are grandfathered into the system. To put it another way, after seven decades of medical amphetamine use and rigorous testing, its a well-known substance...and unfortunately for anti-drug crusaders, it has demonstrated a clear place in medicine.
Phenmetrazine, I think is probably more euphoric and abusable (?), and was developed later. It never managed to earn its place before concerns about abusability shut it down. As for Amineptine, well, it didn't have decades and decades of use and testing to support it when it was shut down--during the decades of its use a substantial wariness had -already developed- toward anything dopaminergic--and it does cause liver damage occasionally (though it seems a substantially less severe problem than with, say, nefazodone).
It's too bad. In my view, political concerns are suppressing the development of legitimate medical treatments. But it seems that the bodies that make these decisions feel strongly about even -potential- drugs of abuse, possibly because it causes negative publicity for psychopharmacology in general.
As for vanoxerine, it diminishes DA release, like bupropion, so it doesn't sound abusable. I think that's why it's being developed. I'm not convinced it will be very useful.
Posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 18:45:47
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by psychobot5000 on February 2, 2007, at 16:49:22
> As for the rest...I think a large part of the reason that amphetamines and methylphenidate are used widely, and all the rest are not is that those two are grandfathered into the system. To put it another way, after seven decades of medical amphetamine use and rigorous testing, its a well-known substance...and unfortunately for anti-drug crusaders, it has demonstrated a clear place in medicine.But the FDA just approved a new stimulant:
<< http://www.medicalnewstoday.com/medicalnews.php?newsid=60192&nfid=rssfeeds >>
Why? Do we really need another one of these on the market?
Posted by psychobot5000 on February 2, 2007, at 22:01:31
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 18:45:47
It's not new--just a complex, chemically bonded version of dexamphetamine intended as a gradual release mechanism.
I guess it's sensible financially--guaranteed market, guaranteed effective drug, new patent.
But I'd be all for a pharmacalogically different stimulant--they're effective and useful for many disorders. Too bad they have abuse potential, though.
Posted by linkadge on February 3, 2007, at 9:26:20
In reply to Re: Vyvanse, posted by psychobot5000 on February 2, 2007, at 22:01:31
Supposedly not all dopamine uptake inhibitors are abusable.
Here in Canada, you don't even need to fake a disorder. Just go to a psychiatrist and you're bound to have a stimulant pushed on you no testing required.
Linkadge
Posted by naughtypuppy on February 3, 2007, at 10:15:33
In reply to Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by halcyondaze on February 2, 2007, at 14:49:55
Another example of hypocracy is that many doctors wont prescribe benzodiazapines to an adult, but they wont hesitate to presribe a child Ritalin just for the sake of making the teachers job easier. I thought that all little boys were hyper.
Posted by NYCguy on February 3, 2007, at 15:06:38
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors » halcyondaze, posted by Quintal on February 2, 2007, at 15:29:58
This is my take as well. No one who likes the effect of stims is going to seek out Parnate above the easily available Adderall/Dex/Ritalin. Not many people are even aware of Parnate in the first place. Also, even though it does have an "amphetimine like" response, my own feeling is that the parnate stimulation feels much different and less intense than the buzz one can get from pstims.
> I think Parnate is legal mainly because it is so rarely used, and even then under close supervision of a psychiatrist. Also, the dietary and drug restrictions would put many casual abusers off. It's also difficult to get hold of - I've never seen it for sale on an online pharmacy.
>
> I suppose depression is so widespread and easy to fake that anyone could claim to be depressed just to have access to euphoric drugs, whereas there is usually more thorough testing for ADHD (in the UK at least, where stimulants are rarely used).
>
> Q
Posted by Declan on February 3, 2007, at 16:46:57
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by ed_uk on February 2, 2007, at 15:06:26
Phenmetrazine is a DA reuptake inhibitor?
Interesting.
Posted by linkadge on February 3, 2007, at 17:08:31
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by Declan on February 3, 2007, at 16:46:57
The anticholinergic drug cogentin is also a dopamine reuptake inhibitor. The combination of anticholinergic activity, and dopamine reuptake inhibition are possably why this drug is sometimes abused.
Linkadge
Posted by med_empowered on February 4, 2007, at 19:43:29
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by linkadge on February 3, 2007, at 17:08:31
"Abusability" is stupid. Here's real "drug abuse": millions of kids are diagnosed with ADHD b/c adults find them hard to handle, and then they're drugged. Or...millions of people are coaxed or outright forced to take damaging neuroleptics against their will. That's drug abuse.
Using a substance because it makes you feel good? That's human nature. I think the root of alot of our problems is this Puritanical approach to psychoactives that has been allowed to flourish.
Posted by Quintal on February 4, 2007, at 20:13:10
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors, posted by med_empowered on February 4, 2007, at 19:43:29
That's a very pertinent and insightful statement med. I strongly agree.
Q
Posted by Declan on February 5, 2007, at 3:03:20
In reply to Re: Vanoxerine and other DA reuptake inhibitors » med_empowered, posted by Quintal on February 4, 2007, at 20:13:10
Me too.
This is the end of the thread.
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