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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by johnnyj on September 26, 2006, at 15:00:35
Has anyone had experience with lithium?
I was taking it for unipolar depression and cut my 600 mg dose in half 6 weeks ago and had some stomach problems, spaciness, headache and some anxiety issues. It seemed to level out but then 3 days ago I stopped completely. I feel better actually. I know it is too soon to tell but I feel clearer not so spacey (this was bad after eating). My breathing seems better too. I had some weird sensations in my chest and stomach but I don't feel as anxiety as much. I am thinking this has got to be placebo related because I was only taking 300 mg. I could not tolerate lithium carbonate and had to switch to lithobid a few years back (slow release).
It is possible that a medication can cause problems after being on it for 10 years? My problems started after a bout of pneumonia and I seemed to be med sensitive after the illness. I am cautious and if my sleep improves I may wonder if this med was causing me problems. I had a lot of mental slowness and could not read full paragraphs as I would jump around. This is better too.
Withdrawal seemed to be REM rebound type stuff or more vivid dreams. Last night was better though. The first night every time I awoke I seemed to fall right into dreaming (very strange).
Has lithium caused anybody anxiety or depression here?
thank you
johnnyj
Posted by linkadge on September 26, 2006, at 16:25:49
In reply to Lithium users, posted by johnnyj on September 26, 2006, at 15:00:35
Long term lithium always makes my depression worse. It works great for the first few weeks then it just makes me feel very flat and depressed. Sometimes it makes me very irritable.
My sleep on lithium was very shallow. Like I was always half awake. Lack of REM sleep can supress growth hormone release (if I am not mistaken) which I think is a mechanism by which REM supressing agents can lead to zombie like states.
Linkadge
Posted by Squiggles on September 26, 2006, at 17:46:51
In reply to Re: Lithium users, posted by linkadge on September 26, 2006, at 16:25:49
I wonder who Linkadge is; nevertheless
i just received "Mad in America"
today - good thing i'm on lithium,
otherwise it would be very difficult
to read as it is one of the saddest
books in the genre. But Rush, the
Quaker fighting for the rights of the
mentally ill, was a kind man, and a medical man too. The two qualities can work wonders.Squiggles
Posted by SLS on September 26, 2006, at 18:42:01
In reply to Lithium users, posted by johnnyj on September 26, 2006, at 15:00:35
> Has anyone had experience with lithium?
>
> I was taking it for unipolar depression and cut my 600 mg dose in half 6 weeks ago and had some stomach problems, spaciness, headache and some anxiety issues. It seemed to level out but then 3 days ago I stopped completely. I feel better actually. I know it is too soon to tell but I feel clearer not so spacey (this was bad after eating). My breathing seems better too. I had some weird sensations in my chest and stomach but I don't feel as anxiety as much. I am thinking this has got to be placebo related because I was only taking 300 mg. I could not tolerate lithium carbonate and had to switch to lithobid a few years back (slow release).
>
> It is possible that a medication can cause problems after being on it for 10 years? My problems started after a bout of pneumonia and I seemed to be med sensitive after the illness. I am cautious and if my sleep improves I may wonder if this med was causing me problems. I had a lot of mental slowness and could not read full paragraphs as I would jump around. This is better too.
>
> Withdrawal seemed to be REM rebound type stuff or more vivid dreams. Last night was better though. The first night every time I awoke I seemed to fall right into dreaming (very strange).
>
> Has lithium caused anybody anxiety or depression here?
I have a couple of things in mind here, but the only thing that you can really do at this point is to sit back and observe. Just know that for unipolar depression, the dosage range found to be effective when used as an adjunct to standard antidepressants is 300-600mg.For me, lithium at dosages of 450mg and higher causes me to have flat affect and makes me feel passive and without motivation or creativity. It feels almost like depression. This is not uncommon. I love hearing stories like that of Squiggles' There are people for whom lithium just hits the target perfectly and does not produce negative affective or cognitive side effects.
- Scott
Posted by Squiggles on September 26, 2006, at 19:16:28
In reply to Re: Lithium users, posted by SLS on September 26, 2006, at 18:42:01
> > Has anyone had experience with lithium?
> >......
> For me, lithium at dosages of 450mg and higher causes me to have flat affect and makes me feel passive and without motivation or creativity. It feels almost like depression. This is not uncommon. I love hearing stories like that of Squiggles' There are people for whom lithium just hits the target perfectly and does not produce negative affective or cognitive side effects.
>
>Lithium is used for unipolars, as an adjunct
with other antidepressants,
isn't it? It is an anti-manic drug, so
it should not be surprising that if given
to a unipolar, he will feel really apathetic.As for me, yes, i'm lucky but that could be
due to a number of variables:
-the right thyroxine dose
-the right lithium dose
-the previous degree of bipolar
-the actual preference for a stoical disposition;Squiggles
- still wonder who linkadge is :-)
> - Scott
Posted by johnnyj on September 26, 2006, at 21:18:40
In reply to Re: Lithium users » SLS, posted by Squiggles on September 26, 2006, at 19:16:28
Yes, that makes sense to me too. If I am truley unipolar, actually more anxiety and ocd, it could cause apathy. I just "feel" things a little better. Today was a good day for me and it has been many months of feeling down.
I was also thinking that since things tanked after about 6 weeks off of my AD (remeron) that the AD had lost any effect by that time and I was getting a "true" lithium effect that could have been masked by the AD. Since it was an adjunct there was nothing for it to adjunct no?
I really hope this lasts. It was nice to be able to read a whole paragraph and concentrate better. I was forgetting what concentration felt like. I just lived today and thought "Even if this doesn't last I am thankful for today" We will see.
thank you for your thoughts
johnnyj
Posted by Squiggles on September 26, 2006, at 21:27:45
In reply to Re: Lithium users (SLS and Squiggles), posted by johnnyj on September 26, 2006, at 21:18:40
> Yes, that makes sense to me too. If I am truley unipolar, actually more anxiety and ocd, it could cause apathy. I just "feel" things a little better. Today was a good day for me and it has been many months of feeling down.
Drugs are very hard to adjust to people's
conditions -- it's so common;
>
> I was also thinking that since things tanked after about 6 weeks off of my AD (remeron) that the AD had lost any effect by that time and I was getting a "true" lithium effect that could have been masked by the AD. Since it was an adjunct there was nothing for it to adjunct no?Remeron is a very sedating AD; with lithium,
i would not expect it to perk you up at all.
>
> I really hope this lasts. It was nice to be able to read a whole paragraph and concentrate better. I was forgetting what concentration felt like. I just lived today and thought "Even if this doesn't last I am thankful for today" We will see.That's good; always report the effects of
your drugs to your dr., so adjustment and
changes can be made.Good luck.
>
> thank you for your thoughts
>
> johnnyj
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2006, at 1:27:17
In reply to Re: Lithium users » SLS, posted by Squiggles on September 26, 2006, at 19:16:28
> -the right thyroxine dose
Can you describe more about your taking of thyroxine?
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2006, at 8:00:16
In reply to Re: Lithium users » Squiggles, posted by SLS on September 27, 2006, at 1:27:17
What would you like to know?
Squiggles
Posted by SLS on September 27, 2006, at 8:15:47
In reply to Re: Lithium users » SLS, posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2006, at 8:00:16
> What would you like to know?
>
> SquigglesIs the thyroxine for a lithium-induced deficiency or other thyroid pathology?
Are you taking supratherapeutic dosages as a strategy to treat the bipolar disorder?
How much are you taking?
What is your TSH?
Too much?
Thanks
- Scott
Posted by Squiggles on September 27, 2006, at 8:31:34
In reply to Re: Lithium users » Squiggles, posted by SLS on September 27, 2006, at 8:15:47
> > What would you like to know?
> >
> > Squiggles
>
> Is the thyroxine for a lithium-induced deficiency or other thyroid pathology?Lithium causes hypothyroidism; it is even
used for natural cases of hyperthyroidism.
This happens in a large (forget the %) number
of cases. With me, it happened within the
first year of lithium treatment.
>
> Are you taking supratherapeutic dosages as a strategy to treat the bipolar disorder?I started with a small dosage, but now I have reached a steady dose of 0.112 mg-- and that is
for the past 15 yrs? I would not call it supratherapeutic, because i know someone who is taking the same, without taking lithium. Many
seniors take Synthroid.>
> How much are you taking?0.112mg Synthroid
>
> What is your TSH?Sigh, i forget, but I am slightly hypothyroidic;
my dr. does not want to raise it because we have
noticed anxiety and palpiation at high levels.
Infact, for a long time I was overdosed, and it caused great anxiety and panic attacks-- that is how i got addicted to Xanax and misdiagnosed; because the Dignostic Manual puts anxiety clustered with depression or manic depression, so the drs. think that anxiety must be part of the illness. It's really complicated.I'm fine now, though as i said slightly hypo- i can dig out the last nubmers if you really want to know.
>
> Too much?I don't think so, maybe too little or too sudden, judging by the gastro following a.m. dose.
Squiggles
>
> Thanks
>
>
> - Scott
>
>
Posted by ronaldo on October 2, 2006, at 15:14:56
In reply to Re: Lithium users, posted by SLS on September 26, 2006, at 18:42:01
Coming in late on this discussion. I have been taking lithium carbonate since 1976. I am 54. I was off it for a few years so altogether I have been taking it for about 25 years. I take 900 mg in one dose at night. I did take Olanzapine as well - 5 mg - for nearly four years. I stopped that just over a week ago. Until about 7 years ago I used to take 800 mg Lithium but I was irritable so I increased it. 900 mg keeps me in the therapeutic zone with my blood level at around 0.8 mMol per litre. My kidneys, liver and thyroid have always been OK. I am surprised at the low levels of Lithium you all seem to be taking. I use Priadel controlled release.
I can identify with Scott's remark:
>For me, lithium at dosages of 450mg and higher causes me to have flat affect and makes me feel passive and without motivation or creativity. It feels almost like depression. This is not uncommon.
I just put up with the flat affect - regarded it as an unavoidable side effect. I only used to get ten to fifteen minutes once every three months with my pdoc so there was not much opportunity to discuss this.
What surprises me is that anyone can treat their bipolar with just 450 mg of lithium. I think I would be well manic on such a low dose. Do you take something else with your lithium?
Eleven days ago I started a course of Seroquel to treat my insomnia. I went from 25 mg upto 100 mg with little improvement in my sleep so I brought it down to 50 mg at night. What it has done is improve my mood. Cognition is better, I can concentrate much better and I generally feel much more optimistic about life. Is this the Seroquel or is it the result of stopping the Olanzapine? Whatever I hope it continues and increases.
I would be very interested to hear what you think of the above, grateful too.
...Alan
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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