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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by SLS on September 29, 2006, at 6:09:48
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » SLS, posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 5:41:04
Then Nardil?
- Scott
Posted by jealibeanz on September 29, 2006, at 10:28:33
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 5:46:33
So have you officially been diagnosed with Bipolar?
Posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 13:09:12
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by SLS on September 29, 2006, at 6:09:48
> Then Nardil?
>
>
> - ScottI apologize for the exteme vanity, but I am terrified I would gain weight. I don't think any positive effects would offset the agony of weight gain out of my control.
BTW, the patch put on about 5lbs that I could live with..barely...and it is magically coming off since I quit. I didn't think a drug with so amphetamine metabolites, albeit, not nearly as with the transdermal absorbtion but there you go, you just never know. What is with the poetry??? A new aspect of rebound?
Posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 13:14:52
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by jealibeanz on September 29, 2006, at 10:28:33
> So have you officially been diagnosed with Bipolar?
i am not sure what would qualify as official since there are no PET scans or anything that can scientifically prove any of these afflictions. My pdoc thinks so if that can be considered official. I considered myself to have many manifestations of soft bipolar for many years and it may be that the patient, if they can still think, may be the best one to know. My pdoc didn't think so until I responded so well to the lamictal because I sleep like a log for many hours. Insomnia is a major hallmark of bipolar and I just don't have that, never had. I slept like a rock as a baby.
Posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 13:24:08
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 13:14:52
Insomnia is a hallmark of bipolar? Never heard that before. All types of things to my knowledge(limited) like excessive stress can cause insomnia to my knowledge. Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on September 29, 2006, at 14:53:28
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 13:14:52
> Insomnia is a major hallmark of bipolar
This is true in the manic phase of the illness or during a mixed-state - and then not always.
> and I just don't have that, never had. I slept like a rock as a baby.
Me too, in my depressed state. Mania is another story. The few times I had it, I could exist on 3-4 hour of sleep without really missing it.
Phillipa is right about insomnia being a component of some forms of unipolar depression. In fact, it was part of the original diagnosis.
In other words, you can sleep or oversleep and still be bipolar.
- Scott
Posted by jealibeanz on September 29, 2006, at 15:43:58
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » SLS, posted by Donna Louise on September 29, 2006, at 13:09:12
> > Then Nardil?
> >
> >
> > - Scott
>
> I apologize for the exteme vanity, but I am terrified I would gain weight. I don't think any positive effects would offset the agony of weight gain out of my control.
> BTW, the patch put on about 5lbs that I could live with..barely...and it is magically coming off since I quit. I didn't think a drug with so amphetamine metabolites, albeit, not nearly as with the transdermal absorbtion but there you go, you just never know. What is with the poetry??? A new aspect of rebound?
>
>You did gain weight? Ughhh... that saddens me. I feel the same way you do. Was it when you increased the dose that you noticed it? I was thinking of asking my doc about EMSAM when I see him in 2 weeks. I no longer think I'll be doing that. I majorly gained on my AD's in the past for no reason other than medication. I just happen to be very susceptible. That just makes me feel worse in the end. Not worth it. :(
Posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:15:09
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by jealibeanz on September 29, 2006, at 15:43:58
> > > Then Nardil?
> > >
> > >
> > > - Scott
> >
> > I apologize for the exteme vanity, but I am terrified I would gain weight. I don't think any positive effects would offset the agony of weight gain out of my control.
> > BTW, the patch put on about 5lbs that I could live with..barely...and it is magically coming off since I quit. I didn't think a drug with so amphetamine metabolites, albeit, not nearly as with the transdermal absorbtion but there you go, you just never know. What is with the poetry??? A new aspect of rebound?
> >
> >
>
> You did gain weight? Ughhh... that saddens me. I feel the same way you do. Was it when you increased the dose that you noticed it? I was thinking of asking my doc about EMSAM when I see him in 2 weeks. I no longer think I'll be doing that. I majorly gained on my AD's in the past for no reason other than medication. I just happen to be very susceptible. That just makes me feel worse in the end. Not worth it. :(I personally don't mind 5lbs, it would be well worth it if the drug had worked well. 5 lbs is insignifant to me. That is all I gained. And I can't swear it was the patch. other things going could have done it too. So don't not try it just because of something I said. I am just one person and not even sure if that is what caused me to gain a few measely lbs. It is the 10+ lbs I would find unacceptable. And I have not gained weight on meds that others have and vice versa. What I said about it just isn't applicable to another person's situation.
donna
Posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:18:05
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by Phillipa on September 29, 2006, at 13:24:08
> Insomnia is a hallmark of bipolar? Never heard that before. All types of things to my knowledge(limited) like excessive stress can cause insomnia to my knowledge. Love Phillipa
You misunderstand. I am not saying that bipolar is the only thing that causes insomnia, just that it does for most people. Of course there are a myriad of other etiological possibilies for insomnia. Too many to count probably.
donna
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 21:18:44
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:15:09
Donna do you think you may have eatten more? Feeling better and all? If it's transdermal and bypasses the gut and liver how could it add pounds? Love Phillipa
Posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:25:38
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by SLS on September 29, 2006, at 14:53:28
> > Insomnia is a major hallmark of bipolar
>
> This is true in the manic phase of the illness or during a mixed-state - and then not always.
>
> > and I just don't have that, never had. I slept like a rock as a baby.
>
> Me too, in my depressed state. Mania is another story. The few times I had it, I could exist on 3-4 hour of sleep without really missing it.
>
> Phillipa is right about insomnia being a component of some forms of unipolar depression. In fact, it was part of the original diagnosis.
>
> In other words, you can sleep or oversleep and still be bipolar.
>
>
> - ScottI have never had the classice bipolar I mania so I don't know how that would effect my sleep. I imagine I would be up painting the garage or some other productive activity...I have just had this major agitation, irritablity, panic and rage one minute, then fine the next and then towards the end of my run with the patch I fell into a pretty serious depression. We raised my lamictal to 200mg a few days before I quit the patch and I don't know which to credit for the cessation of my bipolar type symptoms. Either it was drug induced or the lamictal is working really really well for me. Or reboudn as we talked about before. Whatever, I am going to run with it as long as it lasts. BTW, I had much more subtle symptoms of soft bipolar before I started the patch, the patch just seemed to bring it to the surface. Probably any type of peripherally active stimulant would do the same thing. I won't be finding out, not going there, no siree.
donna
>
Posted by jealibeanz on September 30, 2006, at 21:30:08
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:15:09
Yeah, you're right. It's just that I've been so susceptible in the past, I don't want to go down that road again.
Posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:30:53
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 21:18:44
> Donna do you think you may have eatten more? Feeling better and all? If it's transdermal and bypasses the gut and liver how could it add pounds? Love Phillipa
No, if anything I ate less, I eat more when I don't feel good. Don't ask me how it could happen.Who know what any of these drugs are going to do or how they actually do it to any one given individual. I guess there is vague general idea how they work but that is just scratching the surface. It is not a matter of first pass metabolism that would make the difference though.
I am surely not the one to ask, that is all I really know.donna
Posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:34:25
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by jealibeanz on September 30, 2006, at 21:30:08
> Yeah, you're right. It's just that I've been so susceptible in the past, I don't want to go down that road again.
I can surely understand that. You can always try it and then pull it if you don't like what happens. Trying these things is not some kind of binding contract. That is the way I think of it, otherwise I doubt I would try anything. No, that is not true. When I am in the middle of a bad depression I would drink lye if I thought it would help. Well, that is an exaggeration....donn
Posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 21:43:36
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:34:25
Donna how bad are your depressions are you in bed all day and night? Or functional? And I thought the patch med stayed in your sytem for days? Love Phillipa
Posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:08
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 21:43:36
One other question occurred to me, which maybe a strange one, but only because of some SEs I'm having: did you happen to use rozerem?
Just curious, no particular reason to think it.
Jost
Posted by jealibeanz on October 1, 2006, at 0:15:27
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » jealibeanz, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:34:25
Was the gain throughout your entire trial with EMSAM or when you got to higher doses? How long were you on it?
Posted by Another Phil on October 1, 2006, at 1:16:41
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by jealibeanz on October 1, 2006, at 0:15:27
Just to add my two cents.... I started with oral selegeline in January, then switched to the Emsam 6mg patch about a month after it came on the market (the end of March?). For me it was a fantastic antidepressant. I've tried a lot of others and had very limited success. For the first time in a few years, I had the energy and motivation to work out every other day, and even worked up the nerve to ask out a woman I work with (previously unthinkable).
The reason I had to stop taking it is that I simply could not pay attention. I'm a highly-organized person; but while on Emsam, it got to the point that I was afraid that I was going to really screw up my finances, because I just couldn't pay attention. For years, I've taken Dexedrine spansules to help me pay attention. I thought that maybe the combination of the two was too activating, so I'd try not taking them sometimes; it really made no difference to my ability to concentrate whether or not I took the Dexedrine.
Well, I'm taking Parnate now. It is a very good antidepressant, as some have mentioned, but I wouldn't make the decision to take it lightly. I had a *very* traumatic ramp-up period. But...that's another topic.
Phil
P.S. I almost forgot, I gained about 7 pounds while on Emsam (and I hadn't gained a single pound in the past 12 years or so--except while taking Zyprexa), but that may have due to the Neurontin I was taking because I couldn't sleep otherwise. Lot's of laughs.
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 1:27:57
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » SLS, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:25:38
Hi Donna.
> I have never had the classice bipolar I mania so I don't know how that would effect my sleep. I imagine I would be up painting the garage or some other productive activity...
No, you'd be up painting all of your neighbors' houses red in lamb's blood after watching "The Ten Commandmants".
> I have just had this major agitation, irritablity, panic and rage one minute, then fine the next and then towards the end of my run with the patch I fell into a pretty serious depression.
What were you like immediately before starting the patch?
> We raised my lamictal to 200mg a few days before I quit the patch and I don't know which to credit for the cessation of my bipolar type symptoms.
Lamictal can work fast as an antidepressant when you increase the dosage. I don't know so much about manic symptoms.
> Either it was drug induced or the lamictal is working really really well for me. Or reboudn as we talked about before. Whatever, I am going to run with it as long as it lasts. BTW, I had much more subtle symptoms of soft bipolar before I started the patch, the patch just seemed to bring it to the surface. Probably any type of peripherally active stimulant would do the same thing. I won't be finding out, not going there, no siree.
Any family history? How old were you when you first displayed any kind of mood or anxiety symptoms?
- Scott
Posted by SLS on October 1, 2006, at 1:30:53
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » SLS, posted by Donna Louise on September 30, 2006, at 21:25:38
Hi Donna.
> I have never had the classice bipolar I mania so I don't know how that would effect my sleep. I imagine I would be up painting the garage or some other productive activity...
No, you'd be up painting all of your neighbors' houses red in lamb's blood after watching "The Ten Commandmants".
> I have just had this major agitation, irritablity, panic and rage one minute, then fine the next and then towards the end of my run with the patch I fell into a pretty serious depression.
What were you like immediately before starting the patch?
> We raised my lamictal to 200mg a few days before I quit the patch and I don't know which to credit for the cessation of my bipolar type symptoms.
Lamictal can work fast as an antidepressant when you increase the dosage. I don't know so much about manic symptoms.
> Either it was drug induced or the lamictal is working really really well for me. Or reboudn as we talked about before. Whatever, I am going to run with it as long as it lasts. BTW, I had much more subtle symptoms of soft bipolar before I started the patch, the patch just seemed to bring it to the surface. Probably any type of peripherally active stimulant would do the same thing. I won't be finding out, not going there, no siree.
Any family history? How old were you when you first displayed any kind of mood or anxiety symptoms?
- Scott
Posted by jealibeanz on October 1, 2006, at 5:59:22
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by Another Phil on October 1, 2006, at 1:16:41
Did you start the Neurotonin after EMSAM?
Posted by Another Phil on October 1, 2006, at 10:57:24
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by jealibeanz on October 1, 2006, at 5:59:22
> Did you start the Neurotonin after EMSAM?
Yes. The only purpose of the Neurontin for me was to help me sleep, since I was having moderate insomnia with the Emsam.
Phil
Posted by Donna Louise on October 1, 2006, at 14:47:04
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam, posted by Another Phil on October 1, 2006, at 1:16:41
> Just to add my two cents.... I started with oral selegeline in January, then switched to the Emsam 6mg patch about a month after it came on the market (the end of March?). For me it was a fantastic antidepressant. I've tried a lot of others and had very limited success. For the first time in a few years, I had the energy and motivation to work out every other day, and even worked up the nerve to ask out a woman I work with (previously unthinkable).
>
> The reason I had to stop taking it is that I simply could not pay attention. I'm a highly-organized person; but while on Emsam, it got to the point that I was afraid that I was going to really screw up my finances, because I just couldn't pay attention. For years, I've taken Dexedrine spansules to help me pay attention. I thought that maybe the combination of the two was too activating, so I'd try not taking them sometimes; it really made no difference to my ability to concentrate whether or not I took the Dexedrine.
>
> Well, I'm taking Parnate now. It is a very good antidepressant, as some have mentioned, but I wouldn't make the decision to take it lightly. I had a *very* traumatic ramp-up period. But...that's another topic.
>
> Phil
>
> P.S. I almost forgot, I gained about 7 pounds while on Emsam (and I hadn't gained a single pound in the past 12 years or so--except while taking Zyprexa), but that may have due to the Neurontin I was taking because I couldn't sleep otherwise. Lot's of laughs.
I experienced the same inability to stay on task. I was all over the place and thought that could be from trying to do so much at once. Now that I am off, I think I am worse, that could be the lamictal. My friends say I was always getting easily diverted but I never noticed it as a problem. Now I end up with 4 pot holders in the living room and I am not sure why. I am thinking about revisting strattera. I can't remember why I stopped taking it before. It is a good thing my pdoc takes copious notes.
Posted by Donna Louise on October 1, 2006, at 14:49:19
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam » Donna Louise, posted by Phillipa on September 30, 2006, at 21:43:36
> Donna how bad are your depressions are you in bed all day and night? Or functional? And I thought the patch med stayed in your sytem for days? Love Phillipa
I am not functional when depressed and do stay in bed alot. I don't know how long the patch stays in your system. I have been off it now since tues. That makes 6 days. I feel good right now. I doubt it will last. Never has.
Posted by Donna Louise on October 1, 2006, at 14:50:39
In reply to Re: discontonuimg Emsam donnalouise, posted by Jost on September 30, 2006, at 22:42:08
> One other question occurred to me, which maybe a strange one, but only because of some SEs I'm having: did you happen to use rozerem?
>
> Just curious, no particular reason to think it.
>
> JostI have not used that drug, it sounds like a benzo that we don't get in the US? I use klonopin.
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