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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2006, at 15:10:52
In reply to Testosterone boost?, posted by rjlockhart on August 18, 2006, at 14:06:23
Matt you don't mess with your hormones. See a doc if you think it's a real problem for you. Love phillipa
Posted by Jost on August 18, 2006, at 15:44:51
In reply to Re: Testosterone boost? » rjlockhart, posted by Phillipa on August 18, 2006, at 15:10:52
Just off the top of my head-- you don't need hormones.
Esp. non-prescription, OTC, who-knows-what's-in-them, or what-effects-they-may /maynot have.
Stick to your own hormones. They're a lot safer and less expensive.
Jost
Posted by Racer on August 18, 2006, at 15:44:51
In reply to Testosterone boost?, posted by rjlockhart on August 18, 2006, at 14:06:23
Matt, honey, if this is something that worries you, go see your doctor and get your testosterone levels checked. I will go out on a limb here and predict you'll be in normal range.
I feel safe doing that, Matt, because I think that limb is probably about 12 inches in diameter. ;-)
Seriously, though -- I strongly recommend, if you've thought about this enough to google these products, that you go in to your doctor and get the test done. (You're over 18, Honey, so you can indeed make the appointment and go in there without your mother. You can do that, and I urge you to learn how.)
And Matt? I also urge you to consider therapy, talk therapy, because an awful lot of what you describe here on this board really can be helped much more by therapy than by any medication out there.
Good luck, kiddo.
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 3:50:32
In reply to No, don't even think about it... » rjlockhart, posted by Racer on August 18, 2006, at 15:44:51
Hey Matt
Like you I worry that my Testosterone levels might be on the low side!
However I completely agree with the other posters that you should get your levels checked before trying anything.
Excess Tetosterone is supposed to be quite unpleasant, it makes people jittery & over stimulated!
I've considered buying Testosterone patches over the net but I really would have your levels checked first
At least in the US it should be easy to have your levels checked, in the UK its not so easy
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 9:03:50
In reply to Tetosterone, posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 3:50:32
a
Posted by Racer on August 19, 2006, at 13:36:09
In reply to Tetosterone, posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 3:50:32
Let's see, aside from aggression, violence, and acne, excessive testosterone can also cause atrophy of the genitals. So, you get -- you should pardon the expression -- raisons where you might like prunes...
My friend's SIL had to be put on testosterone patches after testicular cancer. They started out at too high a dose, which led to domestic violence -- he'd go into rages and beat the bejaybers out of his wife. That's not what anyone wants.
The whole idea with hormones isn't to have *more* of them, only to have the right amount FOR YOU. That's why there's a normal *range,* not a normal dose.
Matt, I hope you'll work this out, and I hope you'll consider getting into therapy. Even at school, Matt -- there are counselors at school you can go to.
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 17:30:27
In reply to Excessive testosterone **trigger -- violence** » Tom Twilight, posted by Racer on August 19, 2006, at 13:36:09
Hey Racer
Thats fascinating and disturbing about your friend.
Still low Test is linked to depression and fatigue as well as anxiety I think.
To be honest I'd like to be more assertive, so maybe a more Test is what I need?
Obviesly having levels checked is a good ideaWould be a good Idea to have counselling Matt
To be honest I probably need it to!I'm just so fed up with Ignorant UK docs and their anti Med attitued
Posted by Jost on August 19, 2006, at 17:46:35
In reply to Low Test also not good!, posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 17:30:27
Low testosterone-- even the normal range is just an average range-- may not be good, but if there's one thing you don't want to self-medicate on, it's hormones.
Seriously, hormones are very powerful chemicals, that your body makes better than anyone else can. True, if you're seriously out of the normal range, your physician might think a patch is advisable.
Otherwise, more is not better.
Even if you don't have rages-- these things are not well enough understood as it is. Buying supposed hormone patches, or homone precurors of unknown composition can be downright harmful--or just not helpful.
Get tested, guys if you're concerned.
Jost
Posted by H.Upmann on August 19, 2006, at 18:28:44
In reply to Re: Low Test also not good! » Tom Twilight, posted by Jost on August 19, 2006, at 17:46:35
I have to chime in here. There is absolutely nothing wrong with supplementing testosterone assuming you get your free and total testosterone levels checked, and in fact need it. I believe the range for normal is approx: 300ng/dl to 1000ng/dl. I've had mine checked since I was 20 and continuously hovered in the low 300's. While this is considered normal on the scales it certainly isn't optimal for me so I supplement with it by using Androgel (doctor prescribed) at 50mg topical a day. I feel a lot better energy wise. Androgens often give the user a sense of well-being.
This whole stigma with testosterone and related compounds really needs to go away. Testosterone isn't crack or PCP. A doctor can prescribe it and should if your levels are lacking. Men go through andropause just as women go through menopause. It would be a good idea to look at studies conducted by Bhasin (sorry you'll have to google it...I don't have the link off hand) at the Charles Drew Medical Institute (I think) in California. These are not totally benign hormones, but far from dangerous if used in clinical doses. This roid rage business is highly over exagerrated as well. I'm sorry about your friend, but their had to be some other issues involved. I don't see how anyone develops rage by having their levels upped to the normal range. Another thing about those scales is...well...they suck. 300mg/dl is normal for an 80yr old man and a 20yr old man? I don't think so. That's a pretty blanket statement. Your free testosterone is what is really important as that is the unbound portion that is actually active.
Aside from this I would only worry about possible gynecomastia (breast tissue growth in males-usually not seen with low clinical doses), and have a PSA test done. Really testosterone has the potential to help so many people it's sad the stigma attached to it because of the current scandals in baseball, olympics, etc. Also, your testicles will NOT shrivel up into raisins. They may atrophy a wee bit as you are effectively shutting down your natural testosterone by telling the body you don't need to make it anymore (as you are getting it synthetically). I doubt you'd even notice the change. I should say though that you really need to discuss this with the doctor. If you are going to go on HRT it's because your levels are low, and you are likely to stay on for life. Growth hormone would be another great compound to utilize if it weren't so expensive and stigmatized. Insurance will never pay for that for HRT I don't think, and good luck getting your doc to even consider testing you for GH deficiency. You'll be lucky if you don't get another archaic lecture about testosterone. It's a hormone your body makes already!!! I could go on and on about this, but I'll spare you guys. I will try to find the links that support it's safety and efficacy even at whopping doses of 600mg/week of testosterone enanthate injections. It does sound like you're a young man though so try your best not to be impulsive, self-medicate, buy testosterone from some idiot in the gym, etc. See the urologist, endrocinologist, or your GP if you have to and just ask for the tests. Best of luck. Upmann
P.S. There really are no good testosterone boosting supplements out there. At best they temporarily spike your levels and then you crash afterwards with no post cycle therapy. It can take awhile for your natural testosterone levels to get back to normal. I wouldn't waste my time or money on supplements that claim to boost testosterone. They may short term, but this is not the solution you're looking for.
Posted by H.Upmann on August 19, 2006, at 18:32:58
In reply to Testosterone boost?, posted by rjlockhart on August 18, 2006, at 14:06:23
T-Bomb II sucks. I just saw the link. Please don't waste money on that. Upmann
Posted by Racer on August 19, 2006, at 20:39:21
In reply to Low Test also not good!, posted by Tom Twilight on August 19, 2006, at 17:30:27
>
> To be honest I'd like to be more assertive, so maybe a more Test is what I need?No, your hormones aren't all that involved with assertiveness or the lack of it. There are a lot of people out there who are not assertive -- but that doesn't stop them from becoming violent if their hormones get out of whack.
Assertiveness is something that therapy can work on, but drugs really aren't going to fix it.
>
> Would be a good Idea to have counselling Matt
> To be honest I probably need it to!Needing therapy, or even wanting therapy, isn't necessarily a sign that anything's wrong with you. It's more that something's right with you: you have found that there's something about yourself that you'd like to improve, and you're taking steps to do it. No shame in that, right?
Personally, I think it's shameful when there's something about me that I would like to improve, and *don't* do anything about it!
Good luck.
Posted by Tom Twilight on August 20, 2006, at 6:38:38
In reply to Re: Low Test also not good! » Tom Twilight, posted by Racer on August 19, 2006, at 20:39:21
This whole Hormone debate is really interesting!
I like to get my whole body hormone levels checked
By this I mean Adrenals, Thyriod e.c.t.Having said all this I do worry about the long term side effects.
Is supplementing Thyriod for people who's levels are in "the normal range" a good idea?
P.S. I have to say I think drugs can make one more assertive, although whether this is a good idea or not is debatable!
Posted by Racer on August 20, 2006, at 15:08:23
In reply to Hormones in General supplementation, posted by Tom Twilight on August 20, 2006, at 6:38:38
>
> I like to get my whole body hormone levels checked
> By this I mean Adrenals, Thyriod e.c.t.Having thyroid checked should be done pretty much annually for anyone with depression. The symptoms of low thyroid are very similar to depression. The adrenals are harder to talk a doctor into checking, and harder to check. Testosterone should be easy enough to check, and thyroid's dead easy.
>
> Is supplementing Thyriod for people who's levels are in "the normal range" a good idea?Some pdocs will boost pts into a mildly hyperthyroid state to augment an AD, but if you go beyond the "mildly" stage, it's pretty unpleasant. My cat's hyperthyroid, and it was pretty awful before we got the dx and started tx. He lost weight -- he's so skeletal, it's hard to pet him -- he was obviously unhappy -- moved out of the bed, stopped playing with his teddy bear, didn't chase the other cat. About the only thing he did do was climb into my lap and bite me if I tried to get up.
Just remember the old rule: "More ain't necessarily better."
>
> P.S. I have to say I think drugs can make one more assertive, although whether this is a good idea or not is debatable!I think what you're describing is probably more a case of lowered inhibitions than actual assertiveness, though. There really is a difference, but I'll shut up about that... We can all disagree, just telling my view...
Posted by Jost on August 20, 2006, at 21:00:56
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation » Tom Twilight, posted by Racer on August 20, 2006, at 15:08:23
You have to be careful about hormone supplementation.
Nothing wrong with it, if your levels are low.
One thing to keep in mind is that your adrenal glands tend to shut down (or deregulate) to compensate if you take hormones. Of course, you can always check this, but it's not as if you can simply take more, without your body's reacting to it, to maintain homeostasis.
Also too much thyroid is a very bad idea.
Jost
Posted by alohashirt on August 20, 2006, at 21:15:01
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by Jost on August 20, 2006, at 21:00:56
A specialist drug store (pharmacy) near me sells testosterone testing kits. i assume that the "kit" is just something to draw blood and a form to send the sample off to a lab somewhere for testing. I can't remember how much they were but I think under US $100.
I had a pituitary problem that causes a drop in testosterone levels and only a random blood screening uncovered this. The solution then was fortnightly injections in my butt. 30 mins after the first injection I was walking home thinking about the diapers I neede to buy for my kid. I was vaguely aware that I was "bouncing" on my feet a little more than usual, inhabiting my body in a more physical manner. A young woman walking slowly towards me stared in my eyes, smiled, looked down up and gave me "the look" and walked by. I was astounded. As a married, conservative father this hasn't happen to me in nearly 20 years.
The injections were helpful and painful. The positive was that I gained energy, optimism, did more exercise, lost a lot of fat and replaced it with muscle and felt fitter than I had in ten years. I didn't get the roid rage that people describe, but did get excessive sexual urges that were a nuisance. Overall very positive and I believe that, in eth US at least, there is as much misinformation about hormones as there about ADHD meds.
Posted by linkadge on August 20, 2006, at 21:27:18
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by Jost on August 20, 2006, at 21:00:56
Don't mess with your hormones unless you do so under the supervision of a doctor.
There are many potential problems can can stem from excessive hormone activity, cancers and heart problems to start.
Hormones interact with neurotransmitter systems and can obviously affect mood. Too much testosterone can skew the serotonergic dopaminergic ballance, and lead to potential problems.
Linkadge
Posted by Estella on August 20, 2006, at 23:28:05
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2006, at 21:27:18
Is there a med (prescribed - i'll go to the doctor, don't worry) that can lower levels of testosterone?
I haven't had my levels checked (I don't think) but some hormone or other was elevated for a while and doc said something about possibly brain tumour but then level went down. But I think I have a bit much testosterone. Is there anything that can be done about that (assuming that my levels are too high)?
Posted by nellie7 on August 21, 2006, at 13:10:25
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2006, at 21:27:18
Hi Linkadge,
How does excessive testosterone affect the balance between serotonin and dopamine?
TIA,
Nellie.> Hormones interact with neurotransmitter systems and can obviously affect mood. Too much testosterone can skew the serotonergic dopaminergic ballance, and lead to potential problems.
>
Posted by Declan on August 21, 2006, at 15:45:38
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by linkadge on August 20, 2006, at 21:27:18
I've spent hours at a time with my doctor constructing graphs on his computer with my hormone results. You know the big hormone map? Why is my DHEA and Il-5 too high and progesterone and testosterone too low, all that. It's very complicated.
Testosterone supplementation has been useful to me, but it's one more thing to worry about too.
Posted by rjlockhart on August 21, 2006, at 15:51:12
In reply to Re: Hormones in General supplementation, posted by Jost on August 20, 2006, at 21:00:56
Testosterone makes masculine behavior, i think i need a litte more of that.
Should i get my testostene levels, tested even at 19 i think i need a boost.
Not for psychical reason, working out getting bigger, getting more manly.
That is what i want to know, can it make you more masculine than you are.
But thank about all the responses that you guys posted. About testing.
Matt
Posted by linkadge on August 21, 2006, at 19:04:30
In reply to Re: does you behavior anything with testosterone?, posted by rjlockhart on August 21, 2006, at 15:51:12
Testosterone seems to have augmetitive effects on the dopaminergic system. I believe it can sensitize dopamine receptors.
http://biopsychiatry.com/testdop.htm
Estrogen on the other hand seems to interact with the serotonergic system. It can sensitize serotonin receptors. Estrogen also reglates the actions of MAO-A, and the serotonin transporter.
Some people think that the actions of antidepressants are medated throught their effects on sex hormones.
Linakdge
Posted by Maxime on August 22, 2006, at 17:06:05
In reply to Testosterone boost?, posted by rjlockhart on August 18, 2006, at 14:06:23
Posted by Racer on August 23, 2006, at 2:22:00
In reply to Re: does you behavior anything with testosterone?, posted by rjlockhart on August 21, 2006, at 15:51:12
Posted by rjlockhart on August 24, 2006, at 21:02:24
In reply to Have you even read what I wrote to you? (nm) » rjlockhart, posted by Racer on August 23, 2006, at 2:22:00
Yes i have, i do think it may cause me to get angry, now that i have rethought it over, that over counter stuff that i was so DESPERATE to get. Then i thought of asking my doctor for real testosterone.
Therpy would really help im already in therpy.
The Question is will testosterone cause any other effects....sexual wise.
If it does, then heck no.
Matt
Thanks for you post.
Posted by james K on August 25, 2006, at 1:21:23
In reply to Re: Have you even read what I wrote to you?, posted by rjlockhart on August 24, 2006, at 21:02:24
Will testosterone cause any other effects sexual wise? yes.
It is one of those weird things in nature where enough is enough, and too much does the opposite. It's as simple as that to me. If you are developing as a mature man, and putting on muscle, all you need is good nutrition. Your body will take the building blocks and make the hormones you need.
I grew up watching pro wrestling, I've seen my childhood heroes become deformed, crippled, and die.
On the other hand, I saw my father catch a serious virus, get very ill, and have his testicles damaged. He takes testosterone cream. To make him normal again.
James K
This is the end of the thread.
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