![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 39. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Crazy Horse on June 30, 2006, at 17:47:31
I finally got my pdoc to write me a script for Klonopin..after much begging! I've been on Ativan for over 20 yrs. and just don't feel it works for me anymore. I want something to help w/Social Phobia, along w/my EMSAM. My PDoc insists a benzo is a benzo except for differences in the half life. All opinions are appreciated...is Klonopin generally better for S.P. than the other benzos? And why or why not? Thanks!
Monte
Posted by Squiggles on June 30, 2006, at 21:01:11
In reply to What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by Crazy Horse on June 30, 2006, at 17:47:31
> I finally got my pdoc to write me a script for Klonopin..after much begging! I've been on Ativan for over 20 yrs. and just don't feel it works for me anymore. I want something to help w/Social Phobia, along w/my EMSAM. My PDoc insists a benzo is a benzo except for differences in the half life. All opinions are appreciated...is Klonopin generally better for S.P. than the other benzos? And why or why not? Thanks!
>
> MonteI think all benzos will make you more
relazed in social situations; the difference
with Klonopin is that you are not aware of
its effect (when taken constantly at a
constant dose). However, the cause of
social phobia may vary -- e.g. anxiety
may cause social phobia, but also endocrine
abnormalities, with personal idiosyncracies
coming in last imho.Recently, I have begun to wonder if
cocaine may not actually be used for
social phobia or at least something
enervating rather than sedating. I don't
know if there are any medical studies on
this. It just seems to me that phobia
may not be exactly the same thing as
anxiety - in which case a different
drug may be better for each.Darn semantics :-)
Squiggles
Posted by Phillipa on June 30, 2006, at 23:02:37
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia? » Crazy Horse, posted by Squiggles on June 30, 2006, at 21:01:11
John David the guy who is having all the success on EMSAM says klonopin allowed him to have a life again and work again. Babble him Monte. Love Phillipa
Posted by jedi on July 1, 2006, at 0:21:41
In reply to What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by Crazy Horse on June 30, 2006, at 17:47:31
> I finally got my pdoc to write me a script for Klonopin..after much begging! I've been on Ativan for over 20 yrs. and just don't feel it works for me anymore. I want something to help w/Social Phobia, along w/my EMSAM. My PDoc insists a benzo is a benzo except for differences in the half life. All opinions are appreciated...is Klonopin generally better for S.P. than the other benzos? And why or why not? Thanks!
>
> MonteHi Monte,
For me the combination of Nardil(phenelzine) and Klonopin(clonazepam) are the best meds for my social anxiety. I haven't tried EMSAM but would like to some day when I feel stable enough to go off Nardil again. Because of it's long half life and greater relative potency compared to the other benzos, I feel that Klonopin is a good choice as an augmentor.
Good Luck and Be Well,
Jedi[Neurobiology and pharmacotherapy of social phobia]
http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/entrez/query.fcgi?db=pubmed&cmd=Retrieve&dopt=Abstract&list_uids=15538306&query_hl=1&itool=pubmed_docsum
Posted by MARTY on July 1, 2006, at 0:33:28
In reply to What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by Crazy Horse on June 30, 2006, at 17:47:31
No benzo is strong enough for your little brain my friend :D[Just in case one of Dr.Bob divinities comes to read this, know that we are friends and that he knows I'm joking. Thanks and Amen]
So.. Clonazepam ?! What did you do to your self-medicated Pdoc ?? that could be a good news! If it allow you to quit Ativan, it's a good news. If'nt (I like to be creative in english) If'nt then you're stuck with 2 benzos and that is, for me at least, unheard of and should be hell on earth x 2.
As I already tell you, I think Clonazepam is the best benzo BY FAR for Social Phobia. When you think Social Phobia, think Clonazepam, Paxil and Celexa/Lexapro. If doesn't work then you may think of Ativan, a Betablocker like Inderal (Propranolol) and if tired to try some SSRIs Nardil.
I know you know all that.. ;) I put it in the post for Internet prosperity. A post can help 4, 5 readers while it's a active post, but can help hundreds of people googling in the years to come.
Hey Look behing you !
*Spoof!*
Marty
Posted by Tom Twilight on July 1, 2006, at 9:20:12
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by MARTY on July 1, 2006, at 0:33:28
Clonzepam is generally the Benzo "of choice" for SP I believe.
Some people have better results with Bromazepam I believe, although I haven't tried it myself.
Unfortunatly Bromazepam is know only available in Canada :(
Its not available in the US or the UK
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 1, 2006, at 9:57:49
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by MARTY on July 1, 2006, at 0:33:28
>
> No benzo is strong enough for your little brain my friend :D
>
> [Just in case one of Dr.Bob divinities comes to read this, know that we are friends and that he knows I'm joking. Thanks and Amen]
>
> So.. Clonazepam ?! What did you do to your self-medicated Pdoc ?? that could be a good news! If it allow you to quit Ativan, it's a good news. If'nt (I like to be creative in english) If'nt then you're stuck with 2 benzos and that is, for me at least, unheard of and should be hell on earth x 2.
>
> As I already tell you, I think Clonazepam is the best benzo BY FAR for Social Phobia. When you think Social Phobia, think Clonazepam, Paxil and Celexa/Lexapro. If doesn't work then you may think of Ativan, a Betablocker like Inderal (Propranolol) and if tired to try some SSRIs Nardil.
>
> I know you know all that.. ;) I put it in the post for Internet prosperity. A post can help 4, 5 readers while it's a active post, but can help hundreds of people googling in the years to come.
>
> Hey Look behing you !
>
> *Spoof!*
> Marty
>
>Marty,
Please, Please, quit drinking Tequila with your Haldol. I know you well enough to tell by your post that you are extremely intoxicated and my friend with ALL the medication you are on this simply is not prudent. Combining the large amounts of alcohol you drink with your high-
potency antipsychotics and your antidementia meds may cause ECG changes, including prolongation of QT interval, T-wave inversion, and appearance of U waves. And furthermore, will most likely worsen your chronic impotence problem. Please friend try to stop or limit your alcohol consumption...i say this as a concerned friend.Crazy "Horse/Man" Monte :)
Posted by MARTY on July 1, 2006, at 13:45:57
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia? » MARTY, posted by Crazy Horse on July 1, 2006, at 9:57:49
SURGEON GENERAL WARNING:
PLEASE TAKE NOTE THAT WE ARE JOKING, we know each other well. ;)Let's start with psychopharmaceutical babbling:
What's your dosage of Clonazepam ?
When do you take it ?
How are you feeling on it ? do you like it ?OK.. now let's get serious:
> Marty,
> Please, Please, quit drinking Tequila with your Haldol. I know you well enough to tell by your post that you are extremely intoxicated and my friend with ALL the medication you are on this simply is not prudent.Wait a minute.. I not sure anymore, is it clonazepam that you are taking or is it CLOWNazepam ? Bozo. ;)
>Combining the large amounts of alcohol you drink with your high-potency antipsychotics and your antidementia meds may cause ECG changes, including prolongation of QT interval, T-wave inversion, and appearance of U waves.woooooh.. you should definitively stop reading Ed_Uk and SLS stuff: too complicated for your tiny mini little shrunken drunken brain. :P
>And furthermore, will most likely worsen your chronic impotence problem. Please friend try to stop or limit your alcohol consumption...i say this as a concerned friend.
Impotence? My banana is much more potent than your banana! Mine has her active isomer isolated (Left Test*cle) ... so no comparaison with your little generic :D ahah
Hope you're well buddy
Marty
Posted by tepiaca on July 3, 2006, at 1:48:47
In reply to What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia?, posted by Crazy Horse on June 30, 2006, at 17:47:31
> I finally got my pdoc to write me a script for Klonopin..after much begging! I've been on Ativan for over 20 yrs. and just don't feel it works for me anymore. I want something to help w/Social Phobia, along w/my EMSAM. My PDoc insists a benzo is a benzo except for differences in the half life. All opinions are appreciated...is Klonopin generally better for S.P. than the other benzos? And why or why not? Thanks!
you know my case crazy =) . Xanax is the best , forgetting the short high life. Klono male me depressed when ore than 1 mg.
>
The best for you
Tepi> Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 3, 2006, at 10:23:03
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia? » Crazy Horse, posted by tepiaca on July 3, 2006, at 1:48:47
I have been told conflicting stories:
1) .50 Klonopin is equal to 2 mgs. of Ativan
2) .50 Klonopin is equal to 1 mg. of Ativan.
Anybody know which one is the correct answer. Your help is very much apreciated. Thanks!
Monte
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 3, 2006, at 10:33:29
In reply to Re: What's the best Benzo for Social Phobia? » Crazy Horse, posted by tepiaca on July 3, 2006, at 1:48:47
> > I finally got my pdoc to write me a script for Klonopin..after much begging! I've been on Ativan for over 20 yrs. and just don't feel it works for me anymore. I want something to help w/Social Phobia, along w/my EMSAM. My PDoc insists a benzo is a benzo except for differences in the half life. All opinions are appreciated...is Klonopin generally better for S.P. than the other benzos? And why or why not? Thanks!
>
> you know my case crazy =) . Xanax is the best , forgetting the short high life. Klono male me depressed when ore than 1 mg.
> >
> The best for you
> Tepi
>
>
>
> > Monte
>
>Hi Tepi,
Thanks for your imput. Sorry i haven't been helpful to you the last couple of months..i have been very sick myself. I still think of you often and always remember you in my prayers. Please Babblemail me and let me know how you are doing.
Your friend,
Monte
Posted by Squiggles on July 3, 2006, at 10:46:24
In reply to QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to??, posted by Crazy Horse on July 3, 2006, at 10:23:03
> I have been told conflicting stories:
>
> 1) .50 Klonopin is equal to 2 mgs. of Ativan
>
> 2) .50 Klonopin is equal to 1 mg. of Ativan.
>
> Anybody know which one is the correct answer. Your help is very much apreciated. Thanks!
>
> MonteFrom benzo.org.uk:
also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
Squiggles
Posted by MARTY on July 3, 2006, at 23:12:21
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to??, posted by Squiggles on July 3, 2006, at 10:46:24
> From benzo.org.uk:
> also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
>
> 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin> http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> SquigglesNice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
See ya around
Marty
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 7:40:07
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 3, 2006, at 23:12:21
> > From benzo.org.uk:
> > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> >
> > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
>
> > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > Squiggles
>
> Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
>
> Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
>
> See ya around
> Marty
>
I see 1-2 with a footnote on
alternative approximations; i'm
not sure how you interpret that as
1;Squiggles
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:43:41
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 7:40:07
> I see 1-2 with a footnote on
> alternative approximations; i'm
> not sure how you interpret that as
> 1;
>
> Squiggles
>:P I'm sorry to insist to look again.. there's benzos starting with "LO" and even one by "LOR" maybe you look to fast... I asure you that LORAZEPAM (ATIVAN, TEMESTA) is 1 mg in the table.
Marty
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 9:52:48
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:43:41
> > I see 1-2 with a footnote on
> > alternative approximations; i'm
> > not sure how you interpret that as
> > 1;
> >
> > Squiggles
> >
>
> :P I'm sorry to insist to look again.. there's benzos starting with "LO" and even one by "LOR" maybe you look to fast... I asure you that LORAZEPAM (ATIVAN, TEMESTA) is 1 mg in the table.
>
> MartyYou're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
not prescribing.Squiggles
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:55:42
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 9:52:48
> > Marty
>
> You're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
> not prescribing.
>
> Squiggles:P LOL Happens to me all the time :)
Marty
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 4, 2006, at 10:39:23
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 9:55:42
> > > Marty
> >
> > You're right! I'm sorry and glad I was
> > not prescribing.
> >
> > Squiggles
>
> :P LOL Happens to me all the time :)
>
> MartyDAMN..I can b a r e l y bring myself to say this.. but (for once) Martin is right...oops almost had to regurgitate..:) But thanks to BOTH of you for careing enough to respond...:) MARTINI..FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
CRAZY MONTE
Posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Crazy Horse on July 4, 2006, at 10:39:23
> FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
>uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
See ? :)=
Marty
Posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 13:58:51
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> > FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
> >
>
> uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
>
> In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
>
>
>
> See ? :)=
> MartyHee :-)
I was wondering if the Placebo group was defined as a nation; i.e. "distinct" from the rest of Canada, and what kind of cheese was used - was it Stilton or Rocquefort? I saw a neologism in some articles (Dr. Torrey used it) in psychiatric
lingo - anasognosia [?], but that couldn't be it because lack of self-awareness seems such an essential characteristic of those who populate the land of the free and the home of the brave.
When you're no. 1 you don't need self-awareness - you're recognized like a Roman. Must have been a multi-cultural group of rodents - yup maybe
Canuck rodents.Squiggles
Posted by sdb on July 4, 2006, at 16:51:52
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » MARTY, posted by Squiggles on July 4, 2006, at 13:58:51
45mg ketazolam or 60mg prazepam could be a very good alternative to clonazepam etc.
Valium (diazepam) is just a dirty drug compared with ketazolam (see some studies, which I can support completely). Unfortunately both substances are not available in pharmacies, but maybe by chemical providers or import in the US.
Posted by Crazy Horse on July 5, 2006, at 9:36:21
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> > FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
> >
>
> uh, Tell me something I don't know. Look at this, is an excerpt from PubMed:
>
> In a double-blind clinical trial, 29 Canadian and 27 placebo have been challenged to the elevated plus maze. 8% (2.32) of the Canadians succeed in finding the cheese at the middle of the maze. Only 6% (1.62) of the placebo succeed the same test. In light of these isignificant results, we can't conclude anything but that both, Canadians and Placebo, seems to be attracted by cheese. More study should be make in order to determine if is itn't cheese that is attracted to both Canadians and Placebo. Either way, Canadian were barely superior to placebo and so deserve to be called "Intelligent Human Beings". It is of interest to note that one of the Canadian f**ked the cheese and that a new species arise from this act. After a couple of minutes the strange specimen shouted "POUUUTINE!!!!!" and start to sing something remembering Celine Dion, but without all those common disgraful note. More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> Ia. 100-29, University FisherPrice. Marty, Bexton and NGO 2006. (n18, p28 - Journal of United BS)
>
>
>
> See ? :)=
> MartyYou are freakin' CRAZY Louis!!! You are definitely a "Cheesy CA NAH DEE UN!" And i think the cheese you eat is "dusted" with PCP :)
I most definiely feel a strong cognitive enhancer, perhaps NAMENDA, may help a "man" like you with severe dementia and most definite symptoms of progressive Alzheimer's disease. Memantine may be used in conjunction w/acetylcholinesterase inhibitors to help even a severe case as yours. Unfortunately, cognitive improvement with w/severe dementia cases like yours with Namenda is only modest...which for you would be a HUGE improvement. :)Your adopted big bro,
CRaZy HOrSe (huma comana letesh)
Posted by Dr. Bob on July 5, 2006, at 21:59:56
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Crazy Horse, posted by MARTY on July 4, 2006, at 13:35:58
> FOR A CAN UH DUH boy, your pretty smart! :)
>
> Crazy Horse> More study should be done on that specimen that we decided to call "Quebecer".
>
> MartyPlease don't post anything that could lead others (such as Canadians or Quebecers) to feel put down.
But please don't take this personally, either, this doesn't mean I don't like you or think you're bad people.
If you or others have questions about this or about posting policies in general, or are interested in alternative ways of expressing yourself, please first see the FAQ:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#civil
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#enforceFollow-ups regarding these issues should be redirected to Psycho-Babble Administration. They, as well as replies to the above posts, should of course themselves be civil.
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by sdb on July 7, 2006, at 21:00:33
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to?? » Squiggles, posted by MARTY on July 3, 2006, at 23:12:21
> > From benzo.org.uk:
> > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> >
> > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
>
> > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > Squiggles
>
> Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
>
> Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
>
> See ya around
> Marty
>
If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
on clonazepam, diazepam and other drugs can be up to 24h. Hypericum (St. John's wort) does the opposite and it would lead to faster breakdown of clonazepam (inducer of CYP3A4).
Lorazepam is not substrate of CYP3A4, thus you can not change things with simple methods. Be careful doing that because the change on metabolism will depend on several factors eg. age, liver function, different phenotypes of the CYP3A4, other drugs you take and the dosages. I tested this myself with low dosages and the research is more or less consistent with reality.sdb
Posted by Squiggles on July 7, 2006, at 21:16:43
In reply to Re: QUESTION..2 mgs. Ativan is equal to??, posted by sdb on July 7, 2006, at 21:00:33
> > > From benzo.org.uk:
> > > also known as Lorazepam, the equivalence is
> > >
> > > 1-2Ativan : 0.5Klonopin
> >
> > > http://benzo.org.uk/ (Equivalence Table).
> > > Squiggles
> >
> > Nice equivalence table, bad table cell ;)
> >
> > Take a look again on the table and you'll see that 1 mg (NOT 1 - 2 mg) of Lorazepam (Ativan) is equivalent to 0.5 mg of Clonazepam (Klonopin).
> >
> > See ya around
> > Marty
> >
>
>
> If you want to change the duration of action and the amount (ng/ml) of clonazepam during time you can simply drink some grapefruit juice (clonazepam is mainly substrate of CYP3A4, grapefruit juice is an "OTC" inhibitor of CYP3A4). The effect of grapefruit juice
....
> sdb
"duration" but not potency right?Squiggles
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
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