![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 20 of 20. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by kingdavid20 on April 5, 2006, at 22:03:29
ive been suffering from depression most of my life, and for many years i really couldnt understand it as well as i do now. but, i must say there are methods of treating depression other then takin doctor prescribed drugs that have a number of side effects. i take st johns wort for treating my depression, some of you might be familar with it, if not read up on it on the internet. but in simple terms, st johns wort is a natural herb for use of many illnesses diseases an most important depression. but just takin this supplement alone is not effecient enough. what i mean is, you need to excersize, this helps to releive your mind an body of stress, anxiety and depression,also a healthy way of eating is vital by eating fruits, salads and vegatables,also try to keep yourself mentally busy by taking on a new hobbie or keeping an active life style such as playing a sport or anything , also take a sufficient amount of vitamins, such as b complex which is vital for you in supporting a healthy nervous system, take multivitamins to help your body get the nutrients it needs to help you function properly on a daily basis. these are just some of the mnay fews things that will help you get over your depression versus talkin to some psychiatrist which may work in letting your feelings out,and by taking these side effect drugs that will harm you in the long run isnt the best way to go, natural is the best way an the only way for me, it helps me an i have had a number of problems, i had alot of dissapointments in my life, alot of my dreams of succeeding in many things crushed, most of all the worst was losing my closest friend my brother he was 22 an im 20 now its been a year but ive learn to deal with it.time is the best healing process an its the same way for depression, try these remedies i have recommened an let me know if they work for you in some way. thank you...
Posted by gibber on April 5, 2006, at 22:31:27
In reply to there are other methods of depression treatment, posted by kingdavid20 on April 5, 2006, at 22:03:29
I'm glad that you seem to be doing well on your current regime of vitamins and herbs. When I was 20 yrs old I too wanted nothing to do with prescription medications and really resorted to a lot of talk therapy and my own critical analysis of myself. When that didn't work I turned to a lot of the natural remedies that you mentioned, however I still was not better. It is true that time does do a lot of healing but for many of us on this board time has slipped by quite fast and after years of depression and other illnesses we still are not better. The meds/no meds debate is a common one around here and I hope everyone judges for themselves if meds are the right thing to do. But realize that should you come on hard times or lose faith in your current treatment it is OK to take medications. Wish you the best.
Posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2006, at 23:19:14
In reply to there are other methods of depression treatment, posted by kingdavid20 on April 5, 2006, at 22:03:29
The trouble with herbs is you never know what's in them. Plants mostly don't want to be eaten. Some have become prickly or covered in thorns, while others have become poisonous.
While on the subject of curing depression without drugs, I think the break up of the extended family since the second world war is a lot to do with it. Apparently depression has increased 10 fold in the West since then. I could give a reference for that
Posted by gibber on April 6, 2006, at 1:22:39
In reply to Re: there are other methods of depression treatment » kingdavid20, posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2006, at 23:19:14
Poisons are actually a good source for finding cures/remedies for a lot of different ailments. Scorpions and poison frogs hold cures for cancer and others diseases.
Posted by Racer on April 6, 2006, at 1:51:36
In reply to Re: there are other methods of depression treatment » kingdavid20, posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2006, at 23:19:14
>
> While on the subject of curing depression without drugs, I think the break up of the extended family since the second world war is a lot to do with it. Apparently depression has increased 10 fold in the West since then. I could give a reference for thatAh, but I have to ask...
Has the incidence of depression increased 10fold since the Second World War? Or has the DIAGNOSIS of depression increased since then? Is the increase apparent, or real? And is the break down of the extended family a cause of that? Or merely a correlate? Even if it is a cause, is it a major cause? Or one of many causes?
I know -- I really am in geek-mode right now. You've got a good point, and I happen to think that changes in family and community have increased the risk of depression. I'd even make some of my own arguments there. But I also think some other things have changed that contribute a lot, as well, to the increase in DIAGNOSIS of depression.
For one thing, jobs have changed. No more 30 years and a gold watch, you know? Pensions? HA!
There's less stigma about depression, with great thanks to half the celebrities out there for that. And there are drugs to treat it effectively.
Personally, I'd bet the actual incidence of depression is pretty stable, but before WWII, there were more community supports and familial supports in place. I'd also bet there were fewer diagnoses made before doctors had safe and easy drugs, like the SSRIs, to prescribe for it. Even when I first went on ADs, it was pretty rare because they were Serious Drugs and required a trained and experienced psychiatrist to prescribe them. Cardiotoxicity in overdose was a big reason, but the side effects were pretty significant, too.
OK. I'm done. And I'm late for my Geeks Anonymous meeting...
Posted by yxibow on April 6, 2006, at 2:02:35
In reply to Re: there are other methods of depression treatment » kingdavid20, posted by FredPotter on April 5, 2006, at 23:19:14
> The trouble with herbs is you never know what's in them. Plants mostly don't want to be eaten. Some have become prickly or covered in thorns, while others have become poisonous.
Totally agreed...
> While on the subject of curing depression without drugs, I think the break up of the extended family since the second world war is a lot to do with it. Apparently depression has increased 10 fold in the West since then. I could give a reference for that
I'd be interested in a reference on that... I think its more that since that era, psychiatry began to change from a little-can-we-do-about-it syndrome to one that started to see the discovery of new and real medications that helped depression. As soon as we got past the injecting insulin and housing people in "madhouses" and throwing opium at people, antipsychotics were discovered, tricyclic antidepressants quickly followed about the same time in the late 1950s, followed very soon afterwards by the first benzodiazepines. SSRIs are actually an older discovery than people think but the first one caused fatal problems and was soon off the shelves. Prozac followed. Then we had tetracyclic antidepressants like mianserin and Remeron. Finally SNRIs and SSNRIs came about. Who knows what tomorrow holds.
My point is, though there is a great stigma, psychiatry has "come out of the closet" in the past 50 years. I think that has much more to do with any perceived increases in depression, besides periodic things that we can't control well like 9/11 and poverty and other socio-political forces.Our brains were just as full of the soup of neurochemicals in Roman times through the middle ages, and you can rattle off a list of people who were probably "mentally ill" though little was known at the time and snake oil was sold or people were cast out and gawked at.
Its the same endless arguments you see on CNN these days about blogs and the terrible attraction to teenagers by predators. Its just a new era -- kids used to vanish by someone posing as a caretaker taking them home from school.
Hopefully in this brave new world, this wont be the case any more. Attracting a significant other, maybe wont be a chore, besides getting beyond the first date state, and finally revealing that, yeah, I have _____ condition, but I'm taking medication for it or I seek psychotherapy. Oh -- I'm sorry to hear that, I'm glad you're getting help for your problems. A 21st century scenario? Hopefully.
We cannot despair of humanity, since we are ourselves human beings. -- Einstein.
Posted by zazenduck on April 6, 2006, at 8:32:42
In reply to there are other methods of depression treatment, posted by kingdavid20 on April 5, 2006, at 22:03:29
I'm sorry about your brother. I'm glad you're finding things that help. I personally prefer to use drugs as a last resort. CBT also helps as well as meditation and the things you mentioned. And trying to find meaning in the midst of it all. Thanks for posting :)
Posted by zazenduck on April 6, 2006, at 8:42:38
In reply to I'm such a geek sometimes... » FredPotter, posted by Racer on April 6, 2006, at 1:51:36
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?sec=health&res=9800EEDD133FF931A1575BC0A9629C8B63
I think a lot of it is marketing. Have you read this article about the introduction of antidepressants and the concept of moderate depression into Japan?I think the same thing happened in this country. A lot of unhappiness and discontent was reformulated into illness rather than part of the human condition.
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 6, 2006, at 13:30:43
In reply to Re: there are other methods of depression treatmen, posted by gibber on April 6, 2006, at 1:22:39
Interesting thread...
Personally, I have just discovered what a powerful herb St John's wort really is - I stopped taking it a couple of weeks ago because I thought it wasn't doing anything, and @&*£(
I am really feeling it now.Anyway plants are extremly useful for finding new phytochemicals to cure illnesses etc - aspirin, for exanple was developed from willow bark. Atropine is (or was) extracted from deadly nightshade. Digitalis is extracted from Foxgloves. Xylitol comes from birch sap. Not to mention cocaine, opiates, and pot, coffee and chocoate........anyway.
hmm anyway.
> Poisons are actually a good source for finding cures/remedies for a lot of different ailments. Scorpions and poison frogs hold cures for cancer and others diseases.
>
Posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 6, 2006, at 13:36:38
In reply to Re: I'm such a geek sometimes..., posted by zazenduck on April 6, 2006, at 8:42:38
Oh yes, that was it.
Its in the interests of drug companies to have as many people 'depressed' as possible.
I, too, think it has something to do with the break up of extended families, communities etc etc. Although now, we don't have the stresses on daily living as pre-war people did - we have plentiful food supplies, we don't die of childhood dieases anymore, we have clean water, education, equal rights.....so maybe the environmental stressors have changed. Now we worry about our credit card bills, keeping our jobs, etc. Hmmmm.........
Posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2006, at 13:51:50
In reply to Re: I'm such a geek sometimes..., posted by Meri-Tuuli on April 6, 2006, at 13:36:38
I agree with all of you and I don't believe an ad is the answer to every problem. And why have to take a drug for life since the ad's are addiction or am I delusional again? Love Phillipa
Posted by FredPotter on April 6, 2006, at 16:10:44
In reply to I'm such a geek sometimes... » FredPotter, posted by Racer on April 6, 2006, at 1:51:36
Apparently the increase in consulting a Dr about depression and the increase in diagnosis was allowed for when this figure 10 was given. But you're right about incidence. It might be constant but support from family aids recovery probably. And yes the two are merely correlated. If one caused the other though it would be unlikely that a surge in depression in 1945 would cause a war in 1939!
Posted by FredPotter on April 6, 2006, at 16:15:05
In reply to Re: there are other methods of depression treatment » kingdavid20, posted by zazenduck on April 6, 2006, at 8:32:42
I like reading and writing haiku poems, as well as Zazen of course
Posted by linkadge on April 6, 2006, at 16:18:02
In reply to Re: I'm such a geek sometimes..., posted by Phillipa on April 6, 2006, at 13:51:50
I think there are a number of non biological reasons why more people are depressed these days.
What frightens me the most, is that the more we make this disease of depression into a "chemical imballence" the more we ignore some of the more plausable reasons why people are more depressed.
It is just so "convenient" for us to chalk up all of our problems, to a chemical imballence. We can't control what happens "out there" but we can control our own brains, right?
I think that most people are depressed these days for valid reasons, and that medications may be a nice feild trip from whats really wrong, but how long can it last. What is poop out?
My school life is pretty crappy. I hate what I do. I don't want to bother to think about all of the things that I would need to change in order to make my life more tollerable.
It is easier for me to live in my magical little world, where I can controll all of my problems with various chemial substances.
I'm not saying this applies to everybody.
Linkadge
Posted by jay on April 6, 2006, at 17:06:45
In reply to I'm such a geek sometimes... » FredPotter, posted by Racer on April 6, 2006, at 1:51:36
I agree that this whole 'pigeon-wholeing of people who either have a 'chemical imbalance' or don't is just not good science, period. In my experience as a counsellor in social work, I've worked with people who suffer from conditions that mimic many mental illness conditions. This includes brain injured and developmentally handicapped people. The latter suffer usually from complications caused by everything from premature birth, to asphyxia at birth, complicated pregnancies, and now with genetic research, they are investigating if there are mutations in cells going right back to the sperm and egg. I fall into the developmental handicapped, as I had many problems as a child, and they carried into my adulthood..and will likely be with me for the rest of my life. BUT, I think there are probably MANY more people out there who suffer from these things that they do not know of. It takes very expensive, time consuming testing of a child, very thorough investigation. Hence, it's easier to throw the 'ADD' label on a kid then to investigate psycho-motor imbalances, retardation, co-ordination, etc. I was lucky..my parents paid to have special needs therapy for me..such as a speech therapist, and special physical orientation classes to work out my finer and gross motor skills. Mind you, this was in the early 1970's. Sure I went on to attend college, but it was always a struggle. My doctor has been very, very helpful, caring and open in this respect.
From what I understand, traumatic life events can also cause brain 'injuries'...or trauma. The actual physical mechanisms in the brain change shapes, sizes, and in their activities. So, it may be true that more people may be actually suffering from 'Brain Injury' brought on by life stress than is currently diagnosed.
So, basically, I think that there is way more to the story than a "chemical imbalance". As I said, many people may not realize it, but it is quite possible there where some of the above factors at work that led to mental illness symptoms. I think most people may not know about their birth condition, or any complications, and a post-traumatic brain injury is not exactly something you can just go into the doctors and get a simple test for. Yes, it is true, though, that nature, other events caused by other people can bring on this traumatic brain stress. PTSD is but one of many examples.
Anyhow..just my .02 cents,
Jay
Posted by SLS on April 6, 2006, at 17:47:04
In reply to It's a matter of degrees, nature and nurture » Racer, posted by jay on April 6, 2006, at 17:06:45
Sorry for the self-promotion...
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20000401/msgs/29296.html
- Scott
Posted by FredPotter on April 6, 2006, at 19:45:24
In reply to Re: I'm such a geek sometimes..., posted by linkadge on April 6, 2006, at 16:18:02
I agree Linkadge. BTW I believe poop-out is, in many cases, the placebo effect wearing off, as it is known to do
Posted by madeline on April 7, 2006, at 17:54:08
In reply to there are other methods of depression treatment, posted by kingdavid20 on April 5, 2006, at 22:03:29
I'm not going to get on the meds/no meds debate. All I know is that Prozac literally saved my life. Prior to going on that drug, I was as bad as bad could get.
I would spend days crying. I started on Prozac and in about three weeks I realized that I could see in color again. I stopped crying. Food began to taste good again and I could see shapes and all of these really really beautiful things in the world.My life came back to me. I've been on it for 7 years.
Am I worried about chronic administration of Prozac? Nah.
I would be more worried about coming off of it and feeling the way I used to feel again.
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 20:06:33
In reply to Prozac saved my life., posted by madeline on April 7, 2006, at 17:54:08
When I was on celexa I didn't worry about coming off of it either. In hindsight, I don't know how I did that. I guess I was just so apathetic.
Its a catch 22. When you're on an antipanic, antianxiety drug, there is less likelyhood of you panicing, or becoming anxious about the potential hazards. Its like smoking, a non smoker is wondering themselves, how on earth can this person suck that stuff down, when they know very well they will get lung cancer? The reason is that the blissfullness of the smoking has surpassed common sence. When I started to worry about the hazards of the drugs, my doctor upped my dose! saying something like, oh thats your anxiety returning, instead of an obvious backlash of that part of my brain that cares about the future of my mental health.
When I was on the drug it was impossible to think that coming off of it could cause *so* many problems. My world just came crashing down. Your brain molds itself around these drugs.
b = 1.5 x a
(a = number of years on drug)
(b = number of years required to get off)
You know you're f'd when the drug poops out, but at the same time withdrawl is too excuciating to consider. Thats where a lot of people are stuck these days. Don't mean to sound like a @$$, but thats what happenened to me. I was stuck, and I had to make a killer decision. Go up on the drugs (and never ever ever get off) or face the music.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 20:07:14
In reply to Re: Prozac saved my life. » madeline, posted by linkadge on April 9, 2006, at 20:06:33
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.