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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 21 of 21. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2006, at 14:13:35
I know you'll all heard about how I worked in a psych ward at one time and I read lab results on all the patients cause I was the charge nurse. And here's what I noticed. I noticed a larger than average of patients had thryroid problems usually low in depression. Was it a coincidence or what? As the week after I got married my thryroid became low and at first for two days I was very fatigued but then on the third day my anxiety was out out control. Panic attacks. Had to raise xanax and started synthroid which worked for around two months. Then I experience vertigo so bad I had to crawl on the floor to the bathroom. This neccesitated a trip to the ER and an injection of 2mg of ativan and antivert. Well I never was the same that began my spiral down into the world of antidepressants. I know thyroid is a hormone and how come they now want you to take an Ad for five days premensturally for Pms Another hormone. So does anyone think hormones play a part in anxiety/depression. just my own theory any thoughts. Love Phillipa
Posted by john berk on March 24, 2006, at 14:53:03
In reply to My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2006, at 14:13:35
Hi Phillipa
I Definetly think there is a corelation with hormones and anxiety/depression in a good majority of suffers. My dad for example has hyperthyroidism, and has had an anxiety condition since he was diagnosed in his early 20's!!
my sister has the exact opposite thyroid condition, and had one of the lowest thyroid counts her doctor had seen, she has hair loss, and depression.
both take meds for thyroid and co-morbid symptoms. before my last major depression, i was taking 3-6 mgs. of melatonin nightly, also a hormone, [maybe not exactly what you are speaking of]but it pre-dated my depression, i literally woke up with it.also midlife depression can be caused by low DHEA and testosterone/ estrogen. so this is worth exploring...john btw, a good friend of mine with ocd and phobias was just found to have low thyroid function.
Posted by pseudoname on March 24, 2006, at 15:24:56
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » Phillipa, posted by john berk on March 24, 2006, at 14:53:03
I've had my thyroid tested a couple times. It was always well within normal range. I've tried adding synthetic thyroid anyway, but it didn't do me any good.
Thyroid problems are definitely involved in many people's depression, though. I love the way some doctors say low thyroid “mimics” depression! What on earth does it mean to “mimic” depression?! You just drag around, feeling miserable, having low energy, lacking pleasure & interest, with cognitive impariment? Oh, well at least you're not *really* depressed! LOL!
Posted by Jakeman on March 24, 2006, at 19:50:52
In reply to My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2006, at 14:13:35
Phillipa,
I think they play a big part and are often overlooked. Many people are in the subnormal range which most doctors ignore, but the imbalance could still affect mood.
warm regards, Jake
Posted by blueberry on March 24, 2006, at 21:11:37
In reply to My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2006, at 14:13:35
I personally think hormones are a huge factor, a major factor, and a hugely ignored factor. Doctors try to cover up the symptoms with drugs, but never really treat the cause of the symptoms. If neurotransmitters are low or sluggish, it's probably because of poor hormone influence on their activity. Just my opinion.
High cortisol...anxiety depression. Low cortisol..anxiety depression. Thyroid...even when lab results appear normal compared to the general population, they might not be actually normal for a particular person. Subclinical hypothyroidism, or where lab results look ok but there are prominent symptoms anyway, I think is more common than most doctors realize. But they don't see it that way, they see the end result which is malfunctioning neurotransmitters.
What's sad is how easy and cheap it is to test treatments on patients to see if it works. Ultra low dose cortisol for hypoadrenalism can work miracles in a day to a week. T3 for thyroid can work for lots of people, and psychiatrists even use it to augment drugs without even checking thyroid levels first.
I think any depression anxiety patient should be thoroughly hormone tested prior to making a psychiatric diagnosis. The problem is that doctors are not trained that way.
Posted by Tony P on March 25, 2006, at 2:08:02
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by blueberry on March 24, 2006, at 21:11:37
Absolutely agree. One of the first things my GP did when I presented with depression was get a thyroid test done (I was normal). Later on he did DHEA and testosterone and I was WAY low -- prepubertal. I felt significantly better with DHEA supplementation, not to speak of the cheering effect of being able to have a normal sex life.
Unfortunately the Canadian government has gone paranoid on DHEA, classing it as a danger somewhere between heroin and crystal meth, and the special access program is either totally swamped or they're not approving anyone as a stalling tactic. But that's off topic.
<Rant successfully cut short>
Tony
Posted by tizza on March 25, 2006, at 17:01:04
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by Tony P on March 25, 2006, at 2:08:02
> Absolutely agree. One of the first things my GP did when I presented with depression was get a thyroid test done (I was normal). Later on he did DHEA and testosterone and I was WAY low -- prepubertal. I felt significantly better with DHEA supplementation, not to speak of the cheering effect of being able to have a normal sex life.
>
> Unfortunately the Canadian government has gone paranoid on DHEA, classing it as a danger somewhere between heroin and crystal meth, and the special access program is either totally swamped or they're not approving anyone as a stalling tactic. But that's off topic.
>
> <Rant successfully cut short>
>
> TonyMy doc checked my thyroid first thing too and I've had it checked again since. It's fine
Posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 17:05:39
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by tizza on March 25, 2006, at 17:01:04
also there's cortisol--there's that new cortisol-lowering drug (I think its just RU-486 in different packagint) that apparently does wonders for psychotic depression. I imagine it will probably be used for other disorders, too.
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 18:30:01
In reply to hormones and depression, posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 17:05:39
Med isn't that the abortion drug? Love Phillipa
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 19:35:50
In reply to hormones and depression, posted by med_empowered on March 25, 2006, at 17:05:39
> also there's cortisol--there's that new cortisol-lowering drug (I think its just RU-486 in different packagint) that apparently does wonders for psychotic depression. I imagine it will probably be used for other disorders, too.
RU-486 is now called mifepristone (Mifeprex).
The NIMH has an ongoing study of mifepristone to treat bipolar disorder. The drug is a cortisol receptor blocker. I tried it for bipolar depression. I thought there might have been a trend towards imrovement after the first 3 days, but it did not persist.
The current protocol calls for the patient to take 600mg of mifepristone a day for 8 consecutive days. The drug is then discontinued. Ideally, one begins to respond by the end of the treatment period. The antidepressant effect is supposed to persist beyond active treatment; the idea being that the the drug has forced the body to reset the HPA axis and normalize cortisol dynamics.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 19:55:14
In reply to My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by Phillipa on March 24, 2006, at 14:13:35
I do not believe that the majority of cases of biological depressive disorders is the result of an endocrine abnormality. I think the primary problem lies upstream of the hypothalamus and not downstream.
The question is, at what point in the diagnosis and treatment of depression do you begin to search for alternative causes?
- Scott
Posted by JahL on March 25, 2006, at 19:57:53
In reply to Re: hormones and depression, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 19:35:50
> > also there's cortisol--there's that new cortisol-lowering drug (I think its just RU-486 in different packagint) that apparently does wonders for psychotic depression. I imagine it will probably be used for other disorders, too.
>
> RU-486 is now called mifepristone (Mifeprex).
>
> The NIMH has an ongoing study of mifepristone to treat bipolar disorder. The drug is a cortisol receptor blocker. I tried it for bipolar depression.Hi Scott.
Sorry it didn't work. I know you had quite high hopes for Mifepristone.
Mifepristone is next on my list. It's impossible to get prescribed in the UK but I think I've sourced it from abroad. It's very expensive so I'm just getting the money together now.
Can I ask you how you managed to trial it? I would've assumed you were taking too many psych meds to be accepted onto an official trial?
Ta,
J.
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 20:21:46
In reply to Re: Mifepristone. » SLS, posted by JahL on March 25, 2006, at 19:57:53
Hi JahL.
I procured mifepristone on a compassionate use basis as provided for by the US FDA. The drug is distributed in the US by the Feminist Majority Foundation. It is manufactured by Corcept Therapeutics. The drug came in 200mg tablets and cost $10 each. I was allowed to continue with ongoing treatment.
- Scott
------------------------------------------------
> > > also there's cortisol--there's that new cortisol-lowering drug (I think its just RU-486 in different packagint) that apparently does wonders for psychotic depression. I imagine it will probably be used for other disorders, too.
> >
> > RU-486 is now called mifepristone (Mifeprex).
> >
> > The NIMH has an ongoing study of mifepristone to treat bipolar disorder. The drug is a cortisol receptor blocker. I tried it for bipolar depression.
>
> Hi Scott.
>
> Sorry it didn't work. I know you had quite high hopes for Mifepristone.
>
> Mifepristone is next on my list. It's impossible to get prescribed in the UK but I think I've sourced it from abroad. It's very expensive so I'm just getting the money together now.
>
> Can I ask you how you managed to trial it? I would've assumed you were taking too many psych meds to be accepted onto an official trial?
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 21:16:44
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 19:55:14
What kind of causes? I'm seeing a neurologist right now. Love Phillipa would he know? I know a pdoc wouldn't
Posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 22:20:05
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » SLS, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 21:16:44
> What kind of causes? I'm seeing a neurologist right now. Love Phillipa would he know? I know a pdoc wouldn't
Check this out:
http://www.healthyplace.com/communities/depression/treatment/alternative/illness_and_depression.asp
- Scott
Posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 23:17:08
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » Phillipa, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 22:20:05
Scott the things we can rule out are I jog daily, take 2000mg of ester C daily, Bcomplex 50mg, womans natural plant sources MVI, Magnesium separate, I test high in Bl2. But I do have the microadenoma MRI monday to check on growth, and in my 20's I was checked for Cushings disease as I urinated so much conclusion I drink a lot of liquid, I've have two MRI's of the brain considered normal,chronic lymes disese addequately tx'd with antibiotics, liver enzmes normal, So the way I see it it's I need to be retested for Cushings, and tested for Addison's disease since my Mother had it, and the only other thing is the benzos the valium do you think they could be the culpret? I'm cutting down on them anyway along with the SSRI's. They don't work so why waste the time and money. Did I miss anything. Maybe add in the B6 again. Love Phillipa
Posted by CK1 on March 26, 2006, at 16:20:28
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » SLS, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 23:17:08
philippa,
have you ever been on mood stabilizers? you obviously can't tolerate ssri's (i can't either) so why not try to stable your mood out. i've only tried depakote and it did help with anxiety/depression, just made me tired and kind of "blah" but maybe sometimes that's a good thing! :) also, find a new pdoc if you don't like your current one. call around on monday!
Posted by corafree on March 26, 2006, at 19:27:22
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » SLS, posted by Phillipa on March 25, 2006, at 23:17:08
Phillipa:
Great website .. TY!
Wouldn't you see an endocrinologist for dx via bloodwork and treatment of Addison's, Cushing's, Lymes?
Why are you repeating one of your tests? Both parents had hepatitis; checked yrs ago and neg.; should I recheck?
Think I'm taking the same plant-based type hormone. I take Country Life magnesium caps 300mg w/ silica (Oops .. I'm advertising.) and they work like a charm for regular p*oping. My great-greatgrandmother died from an impacted colon.
I don't take Vit-C tho, especially after I have stopped working. I consistently drank a glass of OJ every morn' before work. I take Bs. Take calcium/multi min. I have niacinamide and taurine, but need buy some clear capsulea to fill w/ the taurine powder, and can't recall what niacinamide is doing. Also take an EFA.
I had PMDD and took Oil Evening Primrose .. same sort of EFA thing I believe.
Have Hashimoto's/hypo, take levothyroixine 75mg.
I'm confused re: microadenoma v. cyst. I have a cyst in my L-spine. Is there a diff' between a microadenoma and a cyst. R U having an MRI to see if size has increased? If so, what would treatment be? This is why you're w/ a neuro.
I've been carrying around referrals to both a neurosurgeon and an endo (and more) for three mos now. Guess I'll see an endo for 'my once per month specialist appt' for May. April is already taken. (I'm 'borderline' poor. My state poverty level for one person is $817 and my SSD is just above that.)
My anemia has never been treated. I cannot swallow the liquid. One of the referrals in my purse is to a hematologist. Maybe he'll get June!
lovecf
Posted by spriggy on March 28, 2006, at 23:54:01
In reply to Re: My Own Theory on Possible Causes of Depression » Phillipa, posted by corafree on March 26, 2006, at 19:27:22
When ALL this crap began with me ( My mental downward spiral last year) lo and behold, I had a goiter on my thyroid, I was showing signs of hyperthyroid ( MY T4 something or another was whacked up), and they said I hypoglycemia.
I always felt my physical problem (whatever the root was) is what caused my mental issues.
Not vice versa like most doctor's claim.
Posted by corafree on March 29, 2006, at 15:55:57
In reply to It makes lots of sense; my thyroid, posted by spriggy on March 28, 2006, at 23:54:01
Excuse me all, but I'm in 'wonderful lala land today'.
I was just 'clicking around' and accidentally clicked the 'don't want to particpate link' and it took me to where you continue by entering your personal info.
There used to be a link directly to Dr. Bob and I can't find it (lala thing).
Can someone help me. You all don't want me to go away do you? (Don't answer that,..pls!)
Anywhooo .. if someone could post or babble me instructions on how to 'remain in the community', appreciate it.
Maybe not filling in the personal info didn't boot me out anyway??
I've had breakthrough back pain for so many days, and so far, none this day! Feel almost 'high' and so do my fingers.
tksforhelp cf
Posted by PeterMartin on August 4, 2023, at 6:07:59
In reply to Re: hormones and depression, posted by SLS on March 25, 2006, at 19:35:50
> > also there's cortisol--there's that new cortisol-lowering drug (I think its just RU-486 in different packagint) that apparently does wonders for psychotic depression. I imagine it will probably be used for other disorders, too.
>
> RU-486 is now called mifepristone (Mifeprex).
>
> The NIMH has an ongoing study of mifepristone to treat bipolar disorder. The drug is a cortisol receptor blocker. I tried it for bipolar depression. I thought there might have been a trend towards imrovement after the first 3 days, but it did not persist.
>
> The current protocol calls for the patient to take 600mg of mifepristone a day for 8 consecutive days. The drug is then discontinued. Ideally, one begins to respond by the end of the treatment period. The antidepressant effect is supposed to persist beyond active treatment; the idea being that the the drug has forced the body to reset the HPA axis and normalize cortisol dynamics.
>
>
> - Scott
Did the mentioned study post results? Obv being from 2006 the study must have concluded. Read a paper that mentioned Mifepristone which had me googling
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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