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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 17 of 17. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by linkadge on September 8, 2005, at 12:38:27
Has anyone found that smoking positivly affects core depressive symptomology ?
anxiety, insomnia, energy, anhedonia, concentration, mood, hoplessness etc ?
Linkadge
Posted by djmmm on September 8, 2005, at 15:22:28
In reply to Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by linkadge on September 8, 2005, at 12:38:27
> Has anyone found that smoking positivly affects core depressive symptomology ?
>
> anxiety, insomnia, energy, anhedonia, concentration, mood, hoplessness etc ?
>
> LinkadgeI don't smoke, but there is a lot of information on smoking and monoamine oxidase
Posted by linkadge on September 8, 2005, at 15:50:23
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by djmmm on September 8, 2005, at 15:22:28
Wow,
What I found interesting abou this study was that parnate (at only 10mg) resulted in twice the MAO-A inhibition as smoking.
I wonder if smoking + Parnate would result in a more significant decrease ?
Linkadge
Posted by willyee on September 8, 2005, at 18:54:11
In reply to Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by linkadge on September 8, 2005, at 12:38:27
> Has anyone found that smoking positivly affects core depressive symptomology ?
>
> anxiety, insomnia, energy, anhedonia, concentration, mood, hoplessness etc ?
>
> Linkadge
OUTSTANDING article,i had to read slowly since i was converting it to lamons terms in my head as i read.From what i think i gathered,this article is saying Maoi inhibition is a good thing,and although cigarette smoking is bad,it increases this pleasure of maoi A which is a good thing,therfore providing true actual real realif to depressed people?
So its a bad wrapped in a good?
Does it also suggests parnates inhbition on Maoi A to be a good thing?I know its not my imagination why i crave cigarettes,i just dont find parnate to help in anyway.
This also has me thinking about the success i had when i added molcimide lower dose to parnate,i wish i had it handy,its just a pain to obtain,but this article really has me rethinking the trouble of getting it.Thanks.
Posted by Paulbwell on September 8, 2005, at 23:40:33
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by willyee on September 8, 2005, at 18:54:11
I find smoking to have noticable stimulant and AD effects esspecially at night.
"Nicotine increases Dopamine and has AD effects"-Dr Michael Nordin, PsyDoc 'Beyond Prozac'
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 8, 2005, at 23:43:18
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by willyee on September 8, 2005, at 18:54:11
Adding moclobemide to Parnate is pointless. Just increase the parnate does; it is a much more potent inhibitor of MAO-A than moclobemide. Adding phenelzine is a better idea; that is fully irreversible, as opposed to TCP which I believe has more of an amphetamine-like--save much more potent--reversible or semi-reversible inhibitory action. Thus, you'd knock out more MAO with phenelzine, leaving more TCP around to work--and get metabolized to sympathomimetic drugs.
Cigarette smoke contains harmala alkaloids as the MAO-A inhibitory principle. It also inhibits MAO-B, I believe (no time to read article now).
Nicotine also increases DA release via activation of nicotinic receptors on DA neurons. Of course, nicotine can have a dramatic positive effect on concentration. A nicotine patch works MUCH better for this purpose than a cigarette. Also, I found nicotine pataches help with phenelzine carb cravings. Unfortunately, they cause me sexual dysfunction because of the phenelzine (it seems that a squirrel twitching 4,000 miles away is enough to cause a sex problem with me now that I'm on this stuff).
Posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 0:58:10
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » willyee, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 8, 2005, at 23:43:18
> Adding moclobemide to Parnate is pointless. Just increase the parnate does; it is a much more potent inhibitor of MAO-A than moclobemide. Adding phenelzine is a better idea;
Hi C_M.Am I to understand that adding phenelzine to tranylcypromine is considered safe?
Where might I find some sources of information to coroborate this? I had always thought to combine the two drugs, mostly out of desperation, but was pursuaded by doctors that to do so was extremely dangerous.
- Scott
Posted by Paulbwell on September 9, 2005, at 2:18:30
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 0:58:10
> Am I to understand that adding phenelzine to tranylcypromine is considered safe?
>
> Where might I find some sources of information to coroborate this? I had always thought to combine the two drugs, mostly out of desperation, but was pursuaded by doctors that to do so was extremely dangerous.
>
>
> - ScottI have read in reputed scientific journals that the brains of living smokers contain 40%more MAIO B inhibition chemical interaction. I have been scripted 80mgs IR Ritalin daily 10mg tabs, and often find a couple full strength Cigarettes to have a quicker more noticable stimulant effect!
It's an interesting fact that 90% of people 'Diagnosed with Schrizophrenia' smoke!
Cheers
Posted by linkadge on September 9, 2005, at 6:57:53
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » willyee, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 8, 2005, at 23:43:18
Do you know if cigarette smoking on MAO-A is ir/reversable ? Would adding smoking and an MAOI result in less MAO-A. Lastly, could a heavy smoker expect to use a lesser theraputic dose of an MAOI ?
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on September 9, 2005, at 7:01:42
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo, posted by Paulbwell on September 9, 2005, at 2:18:30
It is strange that so many people with schitsophrenia smoke. I think that the nicotine is supposed to be the main 'medicinal' consituent. (effects sensory gating)
But on the flip side, that much less MAO-B will result in more PEA which (some sources say) is really high in paranoid schitsophrenia.
Linkadge
Posted by Chairman_MAO on September 9, 2005, at 8:49:58
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 0:58:10
Think about it: so long as the dosages used do not result in excessive MAO (or other enzyme) inhibition, why would there be a problem? Just as one can combine clomipramine with an SSRI if need be, or strattera with nortryptyline as someone did on this board, you can combine two MAO inhibiting drugs.
Too much MAO inhibitor can cause serious problems depending upon the drug, such as thrombocytopenia with tranylcypromine. However, so long as conservative doses are used, I do not see why there would be a problem. I have taken tranylcypromine with Nardil before to see if its DA effect would help out the sexual dysfunction (it didn't) and had zero complications.
I imagine TCP + PLZ could be especially safe, as TCP is "semi-reversible" or whatever you want to call it and phenelzine is irreversible. It's not like the two are even both suicide substrates!
I really wish they'd develop the GABA-T inhibiting metabolite of phenelzine into a drug of its own for epilepsy and anxiety; it would probably do very well.
Posted by jrbecker on September 9, 2005, at 8:50:24
In reply to Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by linkadge on September 8, 2005, at 12:38:27
Am J Psych
Cigarette Smoking, Suicidal Behavior, and Serotonin Function in Major Psychiatric Disorders
Posted by djmmm on September 9, 2005, at 10:50:02
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 9, 2005, at 8:49:58
> Think about it: so long as the dosages used do not result in excessive MAO (or other enzyme) inhibition, why would there be a problem? Just as one can combine clomipramine with an SSRI if need be, or strattera with nortryptyline as someone did on this board, you can combine two MAO inhibiting drugs.
>
> Too much MAO inhibitor can cause serious problems depending upon the drug, such as thrombocytopenia with tranylcypromine. However, so long as conservative doses are used, I do not see why there would be a problem. I have taken tranylcypromine with Nardil before to see if its DA effect would help out the sexual dysfunction (it didn't) and had zero complications.
>
> I imagine TCP + PLZ could be especially safe, as TCP is "semi-reversible" or whatever you want to call it and phenelzine is irreversible. It's not like the two are even both suicide substrates!
>
> I really wish they'd develop the GABA-T inhibiting metabolite of phenelzine into a drug of its own for epilepsy and anxiety; it would probably do very well.
>Phenylethylidenehydrazine is similar to the drug Sabril (vigabatrin) a GABA-T inhibitor...also, Wasn't there some question as to whether phenelzine's ability to increase GABA was also do to some other mechanism? (via GABA(A)--alpha 3 beta 1 gamma 2 subunits-- receptors)
Posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 11:09:32
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » SLS, posted by Chairman_MAO on September 9, 2005, at 8:49:58
Theoretically, if MAO inhibition is the only mechanism to be considered, it would seem that mixing Parnate + Nardil would be safe and possibly synergistic. However, these drugs do other things, and there may be a potential danger involved with these other properties that I wouldn't be able to recognize for lack of knowledge. A doctor that I was working with at NYU refused to allow me to switch drugs without a full 14 day washout because he had seen shorter waiting periods result in strokes.
That being said, none of the handful of people on PB who have combined Parnate + Nardil have suffered any significant adverse events. I am more comfortable with the idea after reading what you had to say.
- Scott
Posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 12:39:26
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomology ?, posted by jrbecker on September 9, 2005, at 8:50:24
I was under the impression that nicotine produces an increase in the release of dopamine in reward centers. In addition, it might have a beneficial effect in schizophrenia as it can improve executive function. Nicotine feels good. It is anxiolytic. It might be argued that the individuals with mental illness that are most severely affected are most likely to smoke (self-medicate), thus producing a positive association between smoking and suicide.
- Scott
Posted by willyee on September 9, 2005, at 15:20:59
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 11:09:32
> Theoretically, if MAO inhibition is the only mechanism to be considered, it would seem that mixing Parnate + Nardil would be safe and possibly synergistic. However, these drugs do other things, and there may be a potential danger involved with these other properties that I wouldn't be able to recognize for lack of knowledge. A doctor that I was working with at NYU refused to allow me to switch drugs without a full 14 day washout because he had seen shorter waiting periods result in strokes.
>
> That being said, none of the handful of people on PB who have combined Parnate + Nardil have suffered any significant adverse events. I am more comfortable with the idea after reading what you had to say.
>
>
> - Scott
I have taken both parnate and nardil at the same time,over a extend period of time,and there was no interaction what so ever.
Posted by willyee on September 9, 2005, at 15:30:05
In reply to Re: Does smoking affect core depressive symptomolo » Chairman_MAO, posted by SLS on September 9, 2005, at 11:09:32
> Theoretically, if MAO inhibition is the only mechanism to be considered, it would seem that mixing Parnate + Nardil would be safe and possibly synergistic. However, these drugs do other things, and there may be a potential danger involved with these other properties that I wouldn't be able to recognize for lack of knowledge. A doctor that I was working with at NYU refused to allow me to switch drugs without a full 14 day washout because he had seen shorter waiting periods result in strokes.
>
> That being said, none of the handful of people on PB who have combined Parnate + Nardil have suffered any significant adverse events. I am more comfortable with the idea after reading what you had to say.
>
>
> - ScottOh and at generous doses of each i might add,although i think chairman has me beat on that taking if im not mistaken a whopping 200 mg of parnate the day he took nardil.
After i started doing it,i had mixed feelings of anger and confusion at how they can practicaly demand a washout of FOUR WEEKS and here i am dosing both.
But i guess theres always the possability im really screwed up and immune,i mean i have seen people complain of eating everything on parnate,being extremly critical of there diet,meanwhile im waiting on a pizza as we speak.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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