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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 7 of 7. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 20:49:19
I suffer with Social Phobia. I recently came off Nardil so I could give Marplan (Isocarboxazid) a try.
Basically, although Nardil was still holding off the SP good enough, I was experiencing excessive sleep and lack of energy/cravings for stimulants (I have a history of stimulant addictions). My Dr refused to add anything to the Nardil.
Coming off Nardil was hard. I needed to be off the Nardil for at least 10 days before starting Marplan (Dr's orders). Unfortunitely my Phobia has returned Full Force. On top of that I developed a throat infection coming off it which made things HELL. I've also had to stop work.
I've been taking Marplan now for 8 days at 30mg a day. From day 1 my symtoms have actually increased and I am highly strung at home - the slightest niggle and I fly off the handle. I feel this is the drugs stimulating effect but its not a nice one!
Have I made a big mistake?
If anyone has tried this drug (Marplan), especially for Social Phobia/Anxiety, I'd love to here your experiences.
Thanks.
Posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 3:04:12
In reply to Marplan - so far so bad., posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 20:49:19
I haven't tried Marplan and can't help you with that. I wanted to ask you what you mean by social phobia.
Let me try to explain to myself and others what I mean by social phobia.
After a while with people, if I haven't felt like avoiding them already, I will start feeling swimmy. It's like I start to merge with them, I can feel myself go into them and them into me, so to speak. Engulfment. (Naturally from a psych point of view this is something I need and want?). It doesn't feel nice and is disabling. A drink at this point is good because it gives me an *edge*, as well as some calm. (I grew up in a situation where everything had to be interpreted and it's a strain to be doing it all the time.) By the end of a few hours of this I'm a wreck. All I want to do is whatever is the right thing to do. I start making social mistakes. The end point is being completely immobilised, unable to leave the situation. It's got nothing to do with other people being horrible. (I get on best with direct people who are accepting but not neccessarily similar to me.)
Anyway, what would you call this? Executive dysfunction and social liability are two Utopizen mentioned.
What do we mean when we talk about social phobia? Are we all meaning the same thing? Fear would be a common factor, but of what?
Hope you get my drift.
Declan
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 3:21:06
In reply to Re: Marplan - so far so bad., posted by Declan on July 31, 2005, at 3:04:12
> I haven't tried Marplan and can't help you with that. I wanted to ask you what you mean by social phobia.
> Let me try to explain to myself and others what I mean by social phobia.
> After a while with people, if I haven't felt like avoiding them already, I will start feeling swimmy. It's like I start to merge with them, I can feel myself go into them and them into me, so to speak. Engulfment. (Naturally from a psych point of view this is something I need and want?). It doesn't feel nice and is disabling. A drink at this point is good because it gives me an *edge*, as well as some calm. (I grew up in a situation where everything had to be interpreted and it's a strain to be doing it all the time.) By the end of a few hours of this I'm a wreck. All I want to do is whatever is the right thing to do. I start making social mistakes. The end point is being completely immobilised, unable to leave the situation. It's got nothing to do with other people being horrible. (I get on best with direct people who are accepting but not neccessarily similar to me.)
> Anyway, what would you call this? Executive dysfunction and social liability are two Utopizen mentioned.
> What do we mean when we talk about social phobia? Are we all meaning the same thing? Fear would be a common factor, but of what?
> Hope you get my drift.
> DeclanWhat I mean by 'Social Phobia' is basically what most text books would describe it as. I am a 'text book case', if you like, and have experienced most (if not all) 'typical' symptoms of SP there are. It would take up too much room to explain the whole bunch of symptoms here, but look up any basic definition of SP, and that will be what 'I' mean by it.
Does that make sense? Hope it does.
Posted by willyee on July 31, 2005, at 7:05:55
In reply to Marplan - so far so bad., posted by tecknohed on July 30, 2005, at 20:49:19
It seems people tend to want what they cant have.I see a lot of hype about marplan and i wonder is it because in certain places its hard to obtain.
I went through the hoops and got it a while ago,and like urself i found it of no use,i went i believe two weekes before i stopped.
Of course im not a doc and im sure ur doc would loose no sleep over this,but i think he made some dumb decisions,first nardil has been augmented a LOT,i seen one person go into total remission simply by addind the stimulant dexadrine to nardil,i also seen modfanil added.
He had options of adding nuerontion or a number of medications that with him and u working closly togther could have been tried with a very real possability of success.Chairman uses a stimulant carbegoline with nardil,he really should have tried to make nardil more tolerable for you.
Also ssri to maoi or vice versa is very dangerous,deadly even,but im personaly sleptical of a washout needed from Maoi to Maoi,or at the very least 2 weeks needed,hmmm.
This only accomplishes you falling into a depression for simply being on no med,also throws a withdrawal on top of it to worsen ur depression,so by the time u start the new maoi your in such a bad place it is very very hard to get out,and it doesent give the med a fair shot i think.
I would either find a doc willing to work with u on nardil,theres a whole nardil board with hundreds of users where u can learn of augmentations that are used with success.If you simply dont want nardil again,id go on parnate,and see what type of meds u can add to it to give it the social anxiety relieaf u want.
Parnate and Nardil are the heavy hitters,those plus augment stratergies are the best way to go if u decide to be on a maoi,moclimide,deprenyl alone,marplan just plain and simple do not hold the successes that the main two do.
Id consider getting off the marplan,and id research using a day or two wasout,no need for u to suffer an additional two weeks,get some relieaf asap.Good luck
As always,i voice my opinion only,nodda bit more!
Posted by Tom Twilight on July 31, 2005, at 7:46:38
In reply to Re: Marplan - so far so bad., posted by willyee on July 31, 2005, at 7:05:55
Hey Technohed
I wish I had something positive to say about Marplan, but I’m afraid my experience is similar to yours
I mainly suffer from social phobia, with a nice bit of GAD thrown inMarplan wasn’t my first choice of Med, it would have been Nardil but the doc I saw preferred Marplan for some stupid reason
I started Marplan on the 6th of July, but I only went up to 30mgs last Tuesday.
As with you Marplan initially worsened my anxiety
I think it’s a good idea to start with just one or two tablets for the first few weeks, and then work upAt 30mgs Marplan is helping my anxiety a little, but not my depression or crucially my Social Anxiety
I have a nasty feeling that Marplan doesn’t work as well as Nardil for SA Maybe it helps if the main problem is depression with some SA, but I don’t think it will work for primary SA, at least in my caseTo be fair there are people who get good results with Marplan for SA
Wish I could find a doctor who took SA seriously in the UK.........
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 12:49:17
In reply to Re: Marplan - so far so bad., posted by willyee on July 31, 2005, at 7:05:55
> It seems people tend to want what they cant have.I see a lot of hype about marplan and i wonder is it because in certain places its hard to obtain.
>
> I went through the hoops and got it a while ago,and like urself i found it of no use,i went i believe two weekes before i stopped.
>
> Of course im not a doc and im sure ur doc would loose no sleep over this,but i think he made some dumb decisions,first nardil has been augmented a LOT,i seen one person go into total remission simply by addind the stimulant dexadrine to nardil,i also seen modfanil added.
>
> He had options of adding nuerontion or a number of medications that with him and u working closly togther could have been tried with a very real possability of success.Chairman uses a stimulant carbegoline with nardil,he really should have tried to make nardil more tolerable for you.
>
> Also ssri to maoi or vice versa is very dangerous,deadly even,but im personaly sleptical of a washout needed from Maoi to Maoi,or at the very least 2 weeks needed,hmmm.
>
> This only accomplishes you falling into a depression for simply being on no med,also throws a withdrawal on top of it to worsen ur depression,so by the time u start the new maoi your in such a bad place it is very very hard to get out,and it doesent give the med a fair shot i think.
>
>
> I would either find a doc willing to work with u on nardil,theres a whole nardil board with hundreds of users where u can learn of augmentations that are used with success.
>
> If you simply dont want nardil again,id go on parnate,and see what type of meds u can add to it to give it the social anxiety relieaf u want.
>
> Parnate and Nardil are the heavy hitters,those plus augment stratergies are the best way to go if u decide to be on a maoi,moclimide,deprenyl alone,marplan just plain and simple do not hold the successes that the main two do.
>
> Id consider getting off the marplan,and id research using a day or two wasout,no need for u to suffer an additional two weeks,get some relieaf asap.Good luck
>
>
> As always,i voice my opinion only,nodda bit more!Thank for replies!
I hear what you're saying. But to be fair, I was the one who asked to try Marplan. I have lots of faith in my Dr. It can be hard for NHS Pdocs (here in the UK) to try certain strategies, especially as most have to run it by there superiors first, at least in the case of MAOI's.
Also, should Marplan fail, I WILL go back to Nardil and I hope this would show my Dr that I do indeed NEED to be on it, thus giving him enough reason to allow combination drug therapy. (I would especially like to try Nardil + Reboxetine).
I do feel a slight mood lift today. Maybe it's the Marplan. Maybe it's The end of the Nardil withdrawal. Maybe something else. I'm about to go out shortly so I'll no how my anxiety is a bit later. Nardil took 3+ weeks to kick in so it's still early days yet, plus I'm only on 30mg/day so I still have opportunity to increase dosage.
So although the expert help in the UK (NHS) is limited, I have to make the most of what's on offer. I'm actually lucky in a way. Getting some docs to prescribe MAOIs is like getting blood from a stone.
Posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 17:25:34
In reply to Re: Marplan - so far so bad., posted by tecknohed on July 31, 2005, at 12:49:17
I definitely feel something now! Has Marplan just kicked in? - I think so! (touch wood).
I took my first dose at 4pm today and felt a little better after about an hour. Now it's 11:15pm and after my second pill I feel pretty 'charged'! It's somewhat similar to when Nardil kicked in, but that was nearly 2 years ago so I cann't make exact comparisons.
I also went out to the shops earlier and found that I felt pretty confident despite there being a long cue and being pretty busy.
My guess, and feeling, is that it's serotonin effect has just joined in and spiced things up a bit! Before, I was stimulated but irritable. I dont know if it has a GABA effect like Nardil. Does anyone know whether or no it does?
Well whatever it is I hope it lasts and gets even better.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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