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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ben on June 26, 2005, at 23:50:03
In reply to Re: Bipolarspectrum - Where did you have ECT?, posted by bipolarspectrum on June 26, 2005, at 18:10:32
Can you take your medication along with ECT, like lithium or Effexor?
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:43:45
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 26, 2005, at 16:37:46
No prob!
I have only have received temporal. Only a single bilateral which I did not like (confused and memory shot for a day or two, but it came back). Never needed more than 6 in a row (3x a week for two weeks). After that it didn't take much to get the boat floating after a dip. I have no concerns about long-term ECT maintenance, although no doctor I have ever spoken to seems to have a patient who required it for more than 2 years. The brain seems to get retrained according to the 3 docs I consulted with prior to having it done. I have more concerns about daily usage of ssri's or the depression itself to be totally honest!
I wish Scientology or Religion or CBT or even 20mg of Prozac did the trick...But it didn't... I have friends who used hard drugs like crack/meth, and alcohol for long periods of time and while they were far gone for awhile...eventually with abstinence they came back. I'm not worried, and if I start to lose some functioning I have too many people around me who will let me know! Plus I trust this doc. He believes in aggressive treatment, but he's got a lot of experience and isn't reckless. He was actually reticent about ECT for me at first because he's an expert pharmacologist not a shocker by trade. But when we went down the list of meds I've tried he said okay lets do what works. He advised me to go slowly with the treatments to avoid too much disruption in my life saying eventually the brain would get with the program whether I did them back to back or spaced out over time.
I still have my moments, but they are usually with anger not depression. Anger is much easier for me to treat for me and very temporary.
Scott
> Hi Scott,
>
> Thanks for answering my questions :-)
>
> >Keep in mind I receive right unilateral ECT, not bilateral of which I did receive one time.
>
> Did you receive bifrontal or (traditional) bitemporal?
>
> >I am a total self-absorbed *sshole when I'm depressed and I'm angry, and I misinterpret everything because I'm so sensitive and negative and anxious.
>
> You actually seem like a different person, so much happier :-)
>
> Before you embarked on maintenance ECT (a few months ago?), did you receive bi-weekly treatments for a while?
>
> Do you have any concerns about continuing maintenance ECT on a long term basis?
>
> Kind regards
>
> ~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:51:07
In reply to Meds along with ECT?, posted by ben on June 26, 2005, at 23:50:03
Generally nothing is taken the morning of the treatment. Anticonvulsant & LiC03 dosages are frequently reduced temporarily although I'm not on them and can't speak from personal experience. Everything else remains the same. People frequently comment that the meds work better, or that in some cases they can be reduced and in other cases discontinued entirely over time.I'm down to a tiny dose of zoloft (12.5mg), clonazepam (.75mg), and adderall XR (40mg).
Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 27, 2005, at 1:43:45
Hi Scott,
Are you having 'high dose' unilateral? eg. how 'high' is the shock compared with your seizure threshold?
>I have only have received temporal. Only a single bilateral which I did not like (confused and memory shot for a day or two, but it came back).
If right unilateral 'pooped out', would you try bifrontal? It's supposed to cause a less memory impairment than bitemporal.
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:28:24
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
Hi!
Thanks for the links. I'm not entirely sure about the current to seizure stuff, but I will ask. The guy I let run the show is truly an expert and for the first time in my life I am able to leave the details of doctoring in his hands meaning I finally feel comfortable with a doc who I'm confident in. But I will ask just for my own info, and I'll get back to you. Won't be until July 18th though.
I would try anything to avoid the illness, which lets face it kills 15% of the folks who have it, and ruins the lives of god knows how many others.
I think people need to have the willingness to go to any length necessary. Unfortunately stigma, fear and misunderstanding often get in the way.
For me...life isn't worth living if you can't reap the rewards. The days of watching it pass me by while I lay in misery and tinker with ssri's are behind me. I consulted several physicians (Experts) before making my decision. And I would do the same should any changes to the current regimen be required. Whatever it takes is all I need to know these days. Luckily I finally found a doc who is as good as they come, who I trust, and who I know has my best interest at heart. (That wasn't easy by the way :-))
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 27, 2005, at 11:01:24
Hey Ed,
One more thing...I did speak to the doc about electrode placement. He said it really comes down to side effects not efficacy, and that since I don't have any, other than the thiopental there is no need to change anything. He also said most patients rarely need maintenance beyond 1.5 years. He mentioned one guy who hasn't had a treatment in 2 years without any recurrence.
Also...his opinion is that receiving 1 unilateral treatment a month is not likely to produce ANY long-term unexpected side effects. In fact he believes that what will be revealed in 10 or twenty years about meds currently being prescribed has him more concerned. The only risk he felt relavent was the anesthesia which always has an inherent risk. However where I get it done each patient has 4 people at one time on them (psych, anesthesiologist, cardiologist, nurse). It's a whole department with people literally lined up waiting to get in (I'm not kidding!). I've seen men in their 80's waiting (for Parkinson's and/or depression). I always see the same staff so I feel very comfortable.
Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 28, 2005, at 2:50:51
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Hi Scott,
>I'm not entirely sure about the current to seizure stuff, but I will ask.
Thank you :-) I think it's common to dose RUL ECT at 6 x the seizure threshold.
>I did speak to the doc about electrode placement. He said it really comes down to side effects not efficacy, and that since I don't have any..........
I dont't think you'll need to change :-) I just thought I'd mention bifrontal ECT in case RUL unexpectedly pooped out.
Btw, how long does it take for you to 'orient' yourself after ECT??
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Denise1966 on June 28, 2005, at 9:55:35
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Sorry, hope this doesn't sound like a stupid question it's just that there is a lady who lives round the corner from me who has had ECT and talks a bit childishly, without wanting to be derogatory, she sounds slow, sort of half soaped. Anyway, my mum has spoken to her and she has also spoken to another lady who talks in exactly the same way who has also had ect.
I didn't pay too much attention to this until today I spoke to this man on the phone who'd had it and he talks in exactly the same way.
Is this something that ECT can do or it is just a symptom of people who suffer from depression, I know I don't tend to talk like this just occassionally when I'm really bad a bit flat and monotone.
Thanks Denise.
Posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to hear from people who've had ECT. I'm not considering ECT myself but I've got a couple of friends who's pdocs have recommended ECT.ECT is the strongest med out there.
>
> If you've had ECT, how were the electrodes placed...
>
> 1. Right unilateral
> 2. Left unilateral
> 3. Bitemporal
> 4. BifrontalThey did not tell me.
>
> How often did you have ECT during the initial phase? How many treatments did you have? Did you recieve continuation or maintenance ECT? How often?I had ECT probably every day for about a month.
>
> Why were you given ECT? eg. depression, schizophrenia etc.They did not tell me that either.
>
> Were you forced to have ECT or did you choose to have it?They forced me.
>
> How were you treated by your 'shock doc', did they provide you with good information? Did they undermine your side effects?They draged me out of bed unexpectidly and gave me the ECT. After the ECT memory was nothing. The only thing I came to expect was a heavy dose of morfine (spelling). and then I would pass out.
>
> Did you tell your family/friends/boss that you were having ECT?I was jobless and in hospital.
>
> Before ECT, were you given a premedication?They gave me lots of medications at the time, no I don't know what they were giving me.
>
> Do you have any idea which anesthetic you received? eg. propofol (Diprivan), methohexital (Brevital), thiopental (Pentothal), etomidate (Amidate) etc.morphine is what they told me.
>
> How did you feel when you came around from the anesthetic? If you remember!!! :-OLike my brain was dead, compleatly fried. Probably the effects of ECT. Often I woke up not knowing what had happened. Once I even thought I was just born and in an alien world, because I did not reconize anything that I was looking at. Which after a while I decided it was a radio.
>
> Was ECT effective in reducing your depression/psychotic symptoms??I didn't know what depression was after. In fact I didn't know what anything was.
>
> Do you regret having ECT........would you have it again?I would never do ECT again. I wish I had not had so many of them. After ECT it was like starting life over again. Not to mention my brain could not think or most importanly remember any thing.
>
> What side effects did you have from ECT? eg. anterograde amnesia, retrograde amnesia. Did you ever regain your lost memories? Do you feel that you have suffered permanent cognitive damage?Ten years later and I still have not regained some memories. Slowly over the years things would come back to me. And all the time my exgirlfreind of the time would and still does remind me of things I have only seen in dreams and some times don't remember.
>
> After ECT, what medication did you receive to prevent relapse? eg. nortriptyline, lithium etc. If you relapsed, how quickly?After ECT I refused to take any meds. So I went medless and would relapse and end up in hospital again.
Finaly I started taking zyprexa a year later. Since the zyprexa I have not needed any ECT. I took zyprexa for 7-8 years and now I'm switching to geodon which seems to work for the last 6 months.
>
> Do you believe that your ECT restored the efficacy of a 'pooped out' antidepressant?Before ECT I had not taken many or much medication. And aparently none was working. Meds that I had taken in hospital.
>
> If your course of ECT was not effective, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. bilateral instead of unilateral or high-dose unilateral instead of low-dose unilateral.Never again. I remember things much better when I smoke pot heavly for many years. I did reach a point when I quit pot and after 3 years the memories got bad again. And yes ECT did cross my mind. But instead I smoked a little pot and seem to have gotten over the whole idea.
>
> If your ECT was effective but caused substantial amnesia, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. right unilateral instead of bilateral or bifrontal instead of bitemporal.once again all I know is that I had ECT, it took many years to get that much information out of them.
>
> ~Ed
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 2:26:00
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
Hi Ivan,
>They forced me.
>They draged me out of bed unexpectidly and gave me the ECT.How awful, I'm sorry you had to go through that.
>Like my brain was dead, compleatly fried.
It sounds like you probably had bitemporal ECT.
>Once I even thought I was just born and in an alien world, because I did not reconize anything that I was looking at.
That sounds very frightening.
Thank you for posting :-)
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 29, 2005, at 7:12:43
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 28, 2005, at 1:39:51
Hi Scott,
Thanks for being so kind and answering my questions :-)
I remember you saying that you suffered from a lot of anxiety.
I wanted to ask.........
What effect has ECT had on your anxiety?? .......and what sort of anxiety do you suffer from?
Thank you :-)
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:46:12
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 28, 2005, at 2:50:51
Hi.
I know it's not recommended, but I can drive a couple hours later without noticing much except muscle aches. I'd say 2 hours and I'm back to full functioning...Maybe 3 or 4 a couple times..
But nothing so bad I can't carry on a high level discussion even 30 minutes after waking up.
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:52:10
In reply to Re:Can ECT change the way you speak?, posted by Denise1966 on June 28, 2005, at 9:55:35
No worries on the question, but it made me smile.
I'd probably look more at depression and meds. Usually the average person getting it is pretty severely depressed. I am pretty animated and generally a type A personality unless depressed whereupon I am lethargic and perhaps monotone due to apathy and depression, but thats only at my worst which was probably two winters ago. You can call me anytime...I doubt you'll find me monotone today. If anything (particularly after drinking several cups of coffee) I'll sound quite gregarious and possibly even intense.
Scott
Posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 23:15:55
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on June 28, 2005, at 18:58:15
Thats an awful story...What do you generally suffer from that requires Zyprexa?Scott
Posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 10:07:52
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » ed_uk, posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 22:46:12
Hi Scott,
>I'd say 2 hours and I'm back to full functioning...
Wow :-) How long did it take after bitemporal?
~Ed
Posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 10:25:20
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Sebastian, posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 23:15:55
Hi Scott,
Does the ECT help your anxiety? What sort of anxiety do you suffer from?
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Sebastian on June 30, 2005, at 11:52:59
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Sebastian, posted by Mr.Scott on June 29, 2005, at 23:15:55
It all started with a case of PTSD. I saw a horible acident and then took the blame. I moved and slowly stated to snap. Sort of all at once I ended up in hospital 3 times in a row. Each time with ECT's. The second hospital stay was the one I described above. The first hospital stay I don't even remember getting ECT's. The 3rd hospital stay was the result of a doctor who didn't know me freaking out. It was a short stay and no ECT. This was after I started taking the pills, so I wouldn't have to go back to hospital again.
Posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 16:40:32
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on June 30, 2005, at 11:52:59
Hi Sebastian,
It sounds like you're doing well on Geodon :-) Are you still taking a small dose of Zyprexa?
~Ed
Posted by Sebastian on July 1, 2005, at 10:59:41
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Sebastian, posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 16:40:32
I take 1.25 mg zyprexa. I might as well quit it. Probably will very soon. I take 4-60 mg geodon's. My only side-effect of the geodon is a slight sedation, which is good bacause I take 3-4 100 mg bupropion's. I'm cutting down on the celexa also. I only take 20 mg now. At one point I was on 80 mg. I'm going to stop this one too.
Posted by ed_uk on July 1, 2005, at 11:46:47
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on July 1, 2005, at 10:59:41
Hi Seb,
Tapering Zyprexa gradually is vital........to avoid withdrawal symptoms :-)
Kind regards
~Ed
Posted by Sebastian on July 1, 2005, at 11:56:08
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Sebastian, posted by ed_uk on July 1, 2005, at 11:46:47
I've already learned that one the hard way.
This time I've been tapering over 6 months. Down from 10 mg zyprexa, to 1.25.
Posted by ed_uk on July 1, 2005, at 12:18:00
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT........., posted by Sebastian on July 1, 2005, at 11:56:08
Hi Seb,
>I've already learned that one the hard way.
I remember you talking about the withdrawal symptoms!
~Ed
Posted by Druery on July 1, 2005, at 22:29:56
In reply to Lets talk about ECT........., posted by ed_uk on June 24, 2005, at 17:53:58
> Hello,
>
> I'd like to hear from people who've had ECT. I'm not considering ECT myself but I've got a couple of friends who's pdocs have recommended ECT.
>
> If you've had ECT, how were the electrodes placed...
>
> 1. Right unilateral
> 2. Left unilateral
> 3. Bitemporal
> 4. Bifrontal
>I don't know.
> How often did you have ECT during the initial phase? How many treatments did you have? Did you recieve continuation or maintenance ECT? How often?
>I don't remember how many treatments I had. More than average.
> Why were you given ECT? eg. depression, schizophrenia etc.
>
Depression.> Were you forced to have ECT or did you choose to have it?
>I chose to have it.
> How were you treated by your 'shock doc', did they provide you with good information? Did they undermine your side effects?
>Everyone treated me well.
> Did you tell your family/friends/boss that you were having ECT?
>I've told some people.
> Before ECT, were you given a premedication?
>Just the anesthetic.
> Do you have any idea which anesthetic you received? eg. propofol (Diprivan), methohexital (Brevital), thiopental (Pentothal), etomidate (Amidate) etc.
>No.
> How did you feel when you came around from the anesthetic? If you remember!!! :-O
>I felt woozy and foggy and had a headache.
> Was ECT effective in reducing your depression/psychotic symptoms??
>No.
> Do you regret having ECT........would you have it again?
>I don't regret having it, but I wouldn't have the same kind again, as it didn't work for me.
> What side effects did you have from ECT? eg. anterograde amnesia, retrograde amnesia. Did you ever regain your lost memories? Do you feel that you have suffered permanent cognitive damage?
I've lost memories. They seem to gradually be coming back, but it's been only a couple of months. I feel stupider, but depression makes me feel stupid, too. I'm less talkative than I used to be, but again, it could be the depression.
>
> After ECT, what medication did you receive to prevent relapse? eg. nortriptyline, lithium etc. If you relapsed, how quickly?
>I stayed on Marplan.
> Do you believe that your ECT restored the efficacy of a 'pooped out' antidepressant?
>No.
> If your course of ECT was not effective, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. bilateral instead of unilateral or high-dose unilateral instead of low-dose unilateral.
>Yes.
> If your ECT was effective but caused substantial amnesia, would you consider having a different type of ECT in future? eg. right unilateral instead of bilateral or bifrontal instead of bitemporal.
>
> ~Ed
>
>I don't regret having the treatments. Nothing else worked. Unfortunately, the ECT didn't work either, but I think it was worth the try. There's no way to know ahead of time.
--formerly Ilene
Posted by Mr.Scott on July 2, 2005, at 1:21:18
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 10:07:52
2-3 days after bilateral..
Posted by Mr.Scott on July 2, 2005, at 1:31:00
In reply to Re: Lets talk about ECT......... » Mr.Scott, posted by ed_uk on June 30, 2005, at 10:25:20
Hi!
Yes it helps wonderfully. Mostly I have dread/GAD probably secondary when I'm depressed. I used to have panic/social phobia, but that is completely gone. These days I speak from podiums without any trouble at all.
Scott
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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