![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 13 to 37 of 37. Go back in thread:
Posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 21:33:16
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by Phillipa on June 24, 2005, at 18:55:17
He told me to increase the zoloft and get rid of the clomipramine. The zoloft did nill for my physical anxiety. I told him this but he said that was because it was such a low dose. They have such faith in these darn drugs that noting seems to budge their oppinion that sometimes they don't work. I was an absolute zombie on 100mg, no good sleep at night, half asleep during the day.
"Oh well, this will go away with time" he says. NO! it doesn't.
You don't understand the absolute futility I feel, and the feeling of complete powerlessness.There was such a lack of thoroughness, it was just so rushed. He showed no concern when I told him that I was seeing faces on trees when I was taking the meds he wanted. There was just no oportunity to say anything. How can I get an accurate assesmnet when he is just asking the questions in such a way that he gets the answer he wants to hear.
Thats why I am obsessed with all this alternative crap is because it's the only thing I feel that I have any controll over at all.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 21:36:20
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 21:33:16
Like, does anyone here know the neurological significance of not getting deep sleep for 5 years ? They don't seem to think that is important.
Linkadge
Posted by 4WD on June 24, 2005, at 22:15:17
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 21:33:16
> He told me to increase the zoloft and get rid of the clomipramine. The zoloft did nill for my physical anxiety. I told him this but he said that was because it was such a low dose. They have such faith in these darn drugs that noting seems to budge their oppinion that sometimes they don't work. I was an absolute zombie on 100mg, no good sleep at night, half asleep during the day.
> "Oh well, this will go away with time" he says. NO! it doesn't.
>
>
> You don't understand the absolute futility I feel, and the feeling of complete powerlessness.
>
> There was such a lack of thoroughness, it was just so rushed. He showed no concern when I told him that I was seeing faces on trees when I was taking the meds he wanted. There was just no oportunity to say anything. How can I get an accurate assesmnet when he is just asking the questions in such a way that he gets the answer he wants to hear.
>
>
> Thats why I am obsessed with all this alternative crap is because it's the only thing I feel that I have any controll over at all.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>Linkadge,
I am so sorry. I understand how you feel. My apptointments make me feel the same way. Rushed, unconcerned, don't really give a crap. Just sit down, listen to him, and get out.
I guess you didn't tell him you had already stopped the clomipramine? Can you start going to a GP, tell him you just can't drive 2 1/2 hours to see a pdoc and ask him to prescribe for you?
Again, I am truly sorry about your experience. I wish I could help.
Marsha
Posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 22:36:32
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! » linkadge, posted by 4WD on June 24, 2005, at 22:15:17
I could try and see the regular doctor I suppose.
I don't know if he'd have any more time for me though.
Linkadge
Posted by Racer on June 25, 2005, at 0:53:34
In reply to Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 14:30:24
Posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 7:59:53
In reply to Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 14:30:24
> I don't even want to talk about it. This was the worst experience of my life.
>
> I drove 2 1/2 hours, spilled the beans, gave him pages and pages of symptoms I was having on the meds. The apointment lasted literally 9 minuates, I timed it.What led you to choose this doctor in the first place?
Whenever I begin with a new doctor or go for a second opinion / consultation, I send to the doctor, at least a week before hand, a summary of my case that includes vital information, a case history including a list of symptoms and when they first occurred, the current diagnosis, familial history, and a list of previous treatments and what were their results. I include the date of the appointment just as a reminder of when to expect to see me. Keep it organized and brief. Make sure to bring a copy with you in case it was misplaced or never read. My consultant never received it, so he had to read it in front of me. It was still a big timesaver, and allowed him to ask questions along the way.
You might also want to have the doctor pass a litmus test over the phone before you make an appointment. My major litmus test is to know that the doctor is willing to prescribe MAOIs. Have the doctor's secretary ask the doctor. The secretary can then get back to you with an answer before making your initial appointment.
- Scott
Posted by missamor on June 25, 2005, at 11:30:54
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 21:36:20
i may be wrong here, but i believe lunatics are ppl that go insane from constantly not allowing themselves to fall into deep enough sleep for their brains to perform certain functions. i think my dad is one. and you seem too smart and to well spoken to feel helpless with your pdoc, if he/she wont listen to you, definately go somewhere where you dont feel that way, no reason to. i had a doctor that treated me like a crackhead and i saw her one time. i went through 3 in a month. you have to find one you trust that trusts you and your opinion. now i dont even see one, i get my prescription from gp, therapy is over. no pdoc or therapist, my gp monitors med. maybe go that route. good luck to you.
Posted by willyee on June 25, 2005, at 15:04:43
In reply to Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 24, 2005, at 14:30:24
> I don't even want to talk about it. This was the worst experience of my life.
>
> I drove 2 1/2 hours, spilled the beans, gave him pages and pages of symptoms I was having on the meds. The apointment lasted literally 9 minuates, I timed it.
>
> It really eeks away at you when you go over these apointments for months, loose sleep over them too. Wrack your brain to think of what might help, and you get absolutely no respect, compassion, or sincerity. Any insignt I had into my problem was just an insignifianct manifestation of my anxious persionality in his mind.
>
>
> I'm still shaking from the anxiety I worked myself into before the appointment.
>
> Its useless to even hope about better treatments and better medications, theres not much point to me even being here, on this site, trying to get a better idea of what might help, when in the end I am so darned helpless as to any ability I have any input into my treatment.
>
>
>
> Sorry folks, I've got to take another break from the site, hope is just too damn depressing.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
YOU ARE SOOOOOOOO not alone,i remeber waiting weeks for my appointment,to have my doc barly look me in the face,and blow me off so fast my head is spinning,i leave the office with something i dident want,as well as my head spinning.Thats why my parents,and prob many people who read my posts cant understand why i seem to run my own attempts at medication on my own.I tried to get help,i extended my sould out to these doctors and in turn i was almost killed.As bad off as i get self medicating,i have never once since harmed myself or thought it,HOWEVER when was under a docs care i listened and listened and stayed on effexor for weeks and weeks while BEGGING to get off,i remember putting a knife to my neck once,my dog somehow snapped me out of it and i relaised i would never do such a thing,i threw effexor out that day,along with a lot of respect for the docters and industry.I came across parnate on MY OWN DOING,and had to go through tons of docs to get it,now that parnate is telling me its tired and needs a break,i again am in ground zero,i wish very badly i could find a doc with compassion and knowledge,id prob break down in tears in their office due to overwelhming shock.
My primary doctor was so nice and caring,recorded all our sessions,and he feels terrable hes not allowed to fully treat me,something is wrong with our sysytem,linkadge its all of us friend .
Posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 18:05:21
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by willyee on June 25, 2005, at 15:04:43
Yeah, I wait a long time for these doctors. If I give up on this guy, then I probably can't see another psychiatrist for the next 6mos - 1 year.
It's not so much that I didn't get what I wanted as it was his complete lack of concern.
Linkage
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 18:15:25
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! » willyee, posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 18:05:21
Oh NO willee, If you are who I think you are and live where I think you do you are in serious trouble. I know if Dr. Parker is still around he will say "He's been misdiagnosed, he's bipolar, put him on lithium". I know none of the other docs in VA Beach that I know of used it. The one i have in Greenville has one pt still on it so maybe she remembers something that will work from her past. As I said in a previous post contact me. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by willyee on June 25, 2005, at 20:16:09
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 18:15:25
> Oh NO willee, If you are who I think you are and live where I think you do you are in serious trouble. I know if Dr. Parker is still around he will say "He's been misdiagnosed, he's bipolar, put him on lithium". I know none of the other docs in VA Beach that I know of used it. The one i have in Greenville has one pt still on it so maybe she remembers something that will work from her past. As I said in a previous post contact me. Fondly, Phillipa
DR.PARKER ARRRRRRRRR yess buis park dr,i know him well,out of 30 docs hes the first one i seen at age 18,who handed me something called drugs,and told me in 2 weeks id be a "new person".
I never have been myself since,the DRUG in question was effexor,he did not inform me what i was taking,or inform me of anything,yet he got VERY upset when i had him messaged because for some reason i felt very strange and sick.I was kicked out of his office and practice after he snapped at my father for asking a question,i of course returned with my snap,so he refused to see me,,leaving to a effexor withdrawal.
Dr parker is the man who started this mess,i hold him partily responsable,i did not know what drugs were,i went there for talk therapy since i had just gotten insurance,i did not expect any drugs.
Needless to say i went into a effexor withdrawal and almost took my life,dr parker is a very poor docter and his concern for his patients is horrid.
My email is [email protected] that is how u can get to me btw.
I can NOT believe u mentioned DR PARKER,he passes my mind every day.
Posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 20:46:45
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by willyee on June 25, 2005, at 20:16:09
My husband saw him at VA Beach Psych. That's where I met him. Suuush don't tell anyone it's against the rules. He charged him for 30min each day and saw him for 5min. He was the only one who wasn't put on Lithium. He was put on Paxil. Did you know he had a heartattack? He always came in very early in the am after working out? Always seemed to have so much energy. Found out later he was bipolar. Did you know Dr. King-Jones? Female. She was the one who told me about Dr. Waring when he committed suicide. He was wierd. He specialized in kids. One day I saw him and he was so disorganized I had to tell him to let his secretary put the papers in the charts it wasn't his job that's what he paid her for. But he did it anyway. I should have known something was wrong. The next day they found him dead in his garage. He had been drunk, dancing on the bar, new wife, and passed out with the engine running. It's a small world. Thanks for your E-mail. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 21:07:48
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! » willyee, posted by Phillipa on June 25, 2005, at 20:46:45
You mentioned that he saw your husband for 5 minautes and charged him for 30. I think this is what my doctor's been doing. Although, it's not me who pays but the gov't.
Linkadge
Posted by Jakeman on June 26, 2005, at 3:43:17
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by linkadge on June 25, 2005, at 21:07:48
> You mentioned that he saw your husband for 5 minautes and charged him for 30. I think this is what my doctor's been doing. Although, it's not me who pays but the gov't.
My previous p-doc was doing the same thing. Seeing me for 15 min. and charging the insurance company for 50 min.
Posted by willyee on June 26, 2005, at 9:19:41
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by Jakeman on June 26, 2005, at 3:43:17
> > You mentioned that he saw your husband for 5 minautes and charged him for 30. I think this is what my doctor's been doing. Although, it's not me who pays but the gov't.
>
> My previous p-doc was doing the same thing. Seeing me for 15 min. and charging the insurance company for 50 min.Here here,im being seen a good 5,on a good day 10 min,im made to feel lucky i get that,and im being charged 30 min.My doc attempts to dominate every min of it as well,cutting me off and huffing and puffing,seeing her is actualy somewhat dramatic.
I know some r saying my god change docters,you have to understand ive seen the majority of docters here,who were worse!Then u have some major side blocks to going to a new doc...
- You have to make an initial appointment,most doc offices will require u to see a therpaist first,so now u r wiating 3 weeks to see a therpiast,so she can give the ok to see the p-doc.
- Now u have ur ok,again its the initial visit so u have at least a 3 week wait,iniital visits since they are longer,usualy are not allowed cancellations,so unlike shooitng for one,that is no longer an option and u have to WAIT.So now we have a 3 week wait,on top of a additional 3week wait.
-Now ur first visits requires higher payment,here usualy about 150 dollers,compared to a normal 70 med check.
- Finaly u waited ur sex weeks,emptied ur wallet and r sitting in front of the new doc,now ur rolling dice in hopes this doc is any better,you are new so u will be sujuect to many meds u dont Want since this doc might wanna use em.Not only that but theres the possability u rolled snake eyes and this doc simply isnt any better.
Congratulations,u just finished the process,and r in a worst spot than u were.
With my doc now,im able to make cancelation appt. which usualy enables me to see her within the week i need too with no prior appt.
Ive been allowed a tab so to speak,they do not hound me on payments.
I know she works with maois,last attempt at a NEW doc i was told he would go to BASICS remove my maoi and use prozac,im open to new ideas but putting me on something i had numerous trials with just doesent make sense to me.So for those reasons i humble myself and allow this woman to charge me full sessions for 10 min of time.Yess im in the process of seeing a new doc,but im moving slow and careful this time.
Posted by Racer on June 26, 2005, at 12:53:14
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by SLS on June 25, 2005, at 7:59:53
Great advice, and I do something similar: I take a little spreadsheet showing all my major depressive episodes, duration, medications, effects and side effects, why I went off them, etc. Just a quick and dirty spreadsheet, but it's got a good deal of information on it.
Linkadge, though, is in Canada, so I don't think he has much choice in doctors. National Health and all that.
Posted by Maxime on June 26, 2005, at 19:07:10
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! » SLS, posted by Racer on June 26, 2005, at 12:53:14
I'm sorry Linkage. I've been where you are but in a different way. I waited 9 months to see a pdoc in my province only for him to tell me that if I were in a intimate I would be fine. Right.
I am sooooo stressed about moving right now. Okay so maybe my current isn't the best one out there. But I always spend about one hour there and he does therapy with me and sometimes hypnotises me. I least feel like he is listening most of the time. Except when it comes to my ED>
I wish I could help you ....
HUGS,
Maxime
Posted by 4WD on June 26, 2005, at 21:58:43
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by Jakeman on June 26, 2005, at 3:43:17
> > You mentioned that he saw your husband for 5 minautes and charged him for 30. I think this is what my doctor's been doing. Although, it's not me who pays but the gov't.
>
> My previous p-doc was doing the same thing. Seeing me for 15 min. and charging the insurance company for 50 min.
I had one pdoc tell me "I'm seeing you for 30 minutes today but I"m putting it down as an hour appt. because I spent half on hour looking at your chart before you got here." (He still had to ask me what dosage of meds I was on.)Marsha
Posted by rod on June 27, 2005, at 2:27:21
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by 4WD on June 26, 2005, at 21:58:43
hmmm maybe you should go to see a private pdoc, if possible.
They are trying to fulfill your requests and "demands" because they want to see you again ,and get paid again.. !
Also for me, the regular pdocs, which get covered by my insurance, cant really help me apart from presrcribing Effexor or stuff like that. They are strictly bound to "treatment guidelines" and cant offer "off label" treatment, because the get controlled from time to time from doctors who work for the insurance. Almost all drugs I take are "off label".
I think they are worth the money...
bye
Roland
Posted by rod on June 27, 2005, at 2:43:12
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!!, posted by rod on June 27, 2005, at 2:27:21
PS
I forgot to ask something.
Linkadge, you once said coffee is like valium to you?! But how long does this effect last after you dring a cup? The caffeine fully kicks in about 30 min after intake.
Do you pour a lot of sugar into it? Maybe thats the key ingredient..I mean you say you need something for anxiety. So I guess coffee isnt really helping, because otherwise you should be symptom free from just dinking coffee??!
Maybe you should rethink your coffee intake.
think about it.
Caffee on its own can actually be the cause of your anxiety, because it boosts ADRENALINE. And physical, adrenergic anxiety is your problem, right?
So I strongly recommend to stop, or gradually taper your intake. Really. Its just a short term fix and is likely to be the real cause of your anxiety. Any pdoc I met said drinking coffee when you have anxiety disoerder is ill advised. Some even siad there is scientific proof caffeine nullifies the anxiolytic effect of the SSRIs.
Sure, it leads to the release of many transmitters, which might cause your short term anxiolytic effect, but I think the adrenergic activity lasts much longer.
Sometimes when I experienced anxiety, I reacted to coffee like you. For a short time, its anxiolytic, but after some minutes, an hour, it actaully made my anxiety much worse.
Right at the moment anxiety is not an issue for me...Yeah, I dont want to lecture. And you probably hate me by now :-P
But I just want to make you rethink your strategy. Does it work? Do you still suffer? No? Well, then change your stratey! There is obviously something going wrong.Of course there will be a "rebound" depression when you cease it, but the withdrawal might reward you with an anxiety free life...
ok. I shut up now :-P
greeting
Roland
Posted by linkadge on June 27, 2005, at 16:44:40
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! linkadge, posted by rod on June 27, 2005, at 2:43:12
I see what you are saying. No, I just drink plain dark strong coffee no surgar, no milk. I've observed myself with it and without it.
I don't think it contributes to my anxiety. I mean I could be wrong in all my observations, but I genuinly feel more panicky, and more out of controll when I don't take it. Addiction, perhaps.
Linkade
Posted by rod on June 28, 2005, at 17:30:30
In reply to Re: Its over for me !!! linkadge » rod, posted by linkadge on June 27, 2005, at 16:44:40
ok,
maybe you know this site already, but it might be some stuff to think about.
I know its just from a Medical Laboratory Technician, but anyway.bye
Roland"CAFFEINE ALLERGY: Past Disorder or Present Epidemic?"
http://www.doctoryourself.com/caffeine_allergy.html-------------------------------------------------------------------------
CAFFEINE ALLERGY: Past Disorder or Present Epidemic?
by Ruth Whalen, Medical Laboratory Technician
Cape Cod, MA USA.
[email protected]With the upswing of "chemical imbalance" disorders that surfaced in the latter twentieth century, many researchers frantically attempt to unravel the brain's intricate clockworks. In turn, as the number of persons suffering with mental issues mount, it seems that doctors, pressed for time, are quick to refer patients to psychiatrists. Failing to request a medical physical, many psychiatrists hand out medications, often masking the underlying physical problem.
People have overlooked two simple but deleterious factors: 1,3,7 trimethylxanthine and allergy. Simply put: caffeine allergy. It is medical knowledge that the longer a person is exposed to a drug, the higher the chances are for developing a tolerance, and an allergy to the substance. Once this happens, caffeine allergic persons can't properly metabolize caffeine, which is rapidly absorbed by all organs, and distributed into intracellular compartments, and extracellular water.
Mentioned in a 1936 article by Drs. McManamy and Schube, a young woman, allergic to caffeine, presented with alternating states of delirium and mania, resembling schizophrenia (1). After the recorded case, allergy documentation becomes rare. And not surprisingly.
The drug's stimulating properties masks its allergic symptoms. Circulating adrenaline (epinephrine) increases in caffeine consuming persons (2,3). In its synthetic form, epinephrine is the drug of choice for anaphylactic reactions, halting allergic reactions. But added to a stimulant reaction, excess adrenaline may induce delusions. And the breakdown of some adrenaline byproducts mimics symptoms of schizophrenia (4).
Brain levels increase proportionately with dosage (5). In allergic persons, each cup of coffee, cola, tea, every piece of chocolate, and any ingested caffeine products, intensifies toxic psychosis. Half-life increases. Subsequent doses, including minute amounts, act as a bolus. Cells are poisoned, including neurons.
Symptoms of cerebral allergy can range from minimal reactions, such as lack of comprehension and inability to focus, to severe psychotic states, such as delusions, paranoia, and hallucinations (6). It's known that amphetamine psychosis can't be distinguished from schizophrenia (7,8). With a caffeine allergic person's inability to eliminate, continually ingesting caffeine, neurotransmitter levels, including dopamine and adrenaline, quickly increase. Cells rapidly absorb the drug.
Dopamine increases proportionately to the amount of stress (9). The higher the adrenaline level, the greater the increase in dopamine. Serotonin also increases. Dopamine and serotonin decrease during partial, toxic withdrawal states. But as long as caffeine remains in the toxic body, neurotransmitters never adjust to the victim's natural state.
Toxicity is known to cause excitement, agitation, restlessness, shifting states of consciousness, and toxic psychosis (10), mimicking amphetamine psychosis. Allergic individuals may be erroneously diagnosed, medicated, and lost in a dark disturbed world, until death.
Adenosine receptors are blocked by caffeine (11,16), maintaining neuronal firing. Persons remain excited and often euphoric.
Caffeine toxicity may be mistaken for bipolar disorder (1,12). Symptoms include: chattiness, repetitive thought and action (resembling obsessive compulsive disorder, OCD), restlessness, psychomotor agitation, alternating moods, anger, impulsiveness, aggression, omnipotence, delirium, buying sprees, lack of sexual inhibition, and loss of values.
Allergy can mimic Attention Deficit Disorder (ADD) (13). As far back as 1902, T. D. Crothers noted that many caffeine consuming children "exhibit precocity" and "functional exaltation" (14).
Caffeine poisoning may also resemble schizophrenia. One woman's conversational topics wandered from subject to subject. She screamed, and believed that she was in prison. Natural judgement was impaired (1). In 1931, a truck driver brought to the hospital in a confused and irritable condition, complained of being attacked by flies. Flies were never present. Examination revealed that he'd consumed large amounts of cola (15). One gentleman ended his political speech with predictions and threats, out of the ordinary for his personality, stunning the audience (14). Another case describes a man, who imagined himself very wealthy, and assumed that his mental state was normal (14).
Caffeine toxicity may also masquerade as depression, and anxiety. In 1925, Powers described nervousness, visual problems, and dizziness, in patients he discovered suffered from caffeine toxicity (16). In 1974, caffeine toxic patients, experiencing the same symptoms, were erroneously admitted to a psychiatric hospital, for treatment of anxiety (16,17). In other studies, depression and anxiety are also correlated with caffeine intake (18,19,20,21).
In several reports, patients diagnosed with anxiety disorder experienced panic attacks with ingestion of caffeine (18,19,20). One study reveals that six persons improved with caffeine cessation and remained improved for at least six months (21). Other reports reveal that some persons not afflicted with panic disorder, experienced panic attacks with intravenously administered caffeine (22, 23).
Written materials on panic disorder symptoms and anaphylactic symptoms do not clearly differentiate between the two. Parasthesia (pins and needle sensations), a feeling of choking, hyperactive symptoms, chest pains, and hyperventilation, amongst other symptoms, are common in both conditions. They're also common in many caffeine consuming persons.
This suggests that caffeine allergy may be responsible for many cases of panic disorder. In which case, panic attacks in allergic individuals are suppressed anaphylactic reactions - mimicking ADHD, and panic disorder. They're "have to get up and run" and "I think I'm losing my mind" feelings, brought about by increased neurotransmitter levels, associated with the "fight or flight" syndrome.
Dr. William Walsh connected anxiety and severe allergic reactions. Dr.Walsh maintains that allergic anxiety stems from a choking sense, and loss of air; not a psychological deficit (24).
Caffeine converts into many byproducts, including theophylline. Theophylline keeps the bronchial tubes open. Allergic individuals are less likely to suffer respiratory collapse, during an anaphylactic reaction.
A proficient Boston neurologist mentions that sixty-six percent of elevated CPK MM (creatine phosphokinase of muscle) levels are of an "unknown origin" (25). Innumerable mid to late twentieth century studies reveal that a high number of persons diagnosed with mental disorders, including personality disorder, mania, BPD, depression, catatonia, and schizophrenia, exhibit elevated CPK MM levels (26,27,28-38,39,40-50).
The high majority of these studies, and others, attribute elevated CPK levels to a commonality between patients with mental disorders. Not one focuses on caffeine allergy as a contributing factor of mental disorders.
CPK MM, a muscle enzyme, increases with severe muscle trauma, burns, inflammatory states, and poisoning. This may stem from drugs (36,37,38,39), including cocaine, alcohol, amphetamines, heroin, and stimulants (37,40). Antihistamines, salicylates, cyclic antidepressants, theophylline, and others also cause this disorder (37).
This condition, called rhabdomyolysis, stresses and inflames tissues, including brain cells, breaking down muscle fibers, and discharging potentially toxic cellular matter into the bloodstream (37). Caffeine poisoning can cause rhabdomyolysis (10,37,41).
Myoglobinuria is a symptom of rhabdomyolysis, but often urine myoglobin disappears early in the course of the disorder, or is absent altogether (37). Generalized muscle cramping (associated with rhabdomyolysis) (14,37) may also be absent, or subside early on. Accumulation of caffeine acts as morphine, alleviating pain and discomfort, often inducing muscle rigidity.
With toxins leaking into the bloodstream, the CPK increases. The higher the CPK, the higher the neurotransmitters, and the deeper into psychosis a person spirals.
In the late 1960's, Bengzon et al proposed that the leakage of CPK and aldolase might explain schizophrenia (26). Studies on patients with non-restrictive diets, concentrated on various factors, including medication, but failed to include caffeine as a possible factor (26). More recent studies have also overlooked caffeine allergy as a factor in any mental disorders, including schizophrenia.
A study theorized caffeine as a possible, psychosis inducing agent. Researchers eliminated patients' caffeine for a short duration. It was decided that caffeine aggravates symptoms of thought disorder and psychosis (42). Caffeine was reintroduced-never allowing for sufficient withdrawal times-and significant improvements.
Proportionate to toxicity, physical withdrawal may take up to 12 months, or longer. Recovery symptoms include memory loss, confusion, tremors, agitated states, insomnia or somnolence, and nightmares associated with amphetamine withdrawal. Following physical recovery, residual mental symptoms, primarily confusion and mood alterations, may exist for several months.
Evidence suggests that caffeine, and synthetic neurotransmitter altering medications, merely balance one another, and that upon cessation of caffeine, medication is no longer needed. Several reports indicate that upon caffeine cessation, tremors increased in lithium consuming individuals (43). In some patients, caffeine withdrawal increased lithium levels (44). After experiencing a 10-year course of seasonal BPD, a woman eliminated caffeine from her diet. She no longer needed BPD medication (45).
Caffeine may compete for benzodiazepine receptors (5). In which case, benzodiazepines reduce caffeine's effects and vice versa; balancing each other.
Chronic toxicity may affect functional aspects of every organ (14). Allergic persons may become sensitive to bright light, and resort to sunglasses. It's not uncommon to find dilated but reactive pupils on examination (14). Toxic persons usually present with a whitish, or grayish coated tongue (14, 46). Other findings imply that caffeine inhibits anaphylaxis, by suppressing histamine release (47,48). Due to caffeine's antihistamine properties, a skin test for caffeine allergy may be negative.
Several laboratory tests may be used as markers for allergic toxicity. A detectable Theophylline level in a patient not receiving Theophylline therapy, and an elevated CPK level are indicative of caffeine toxicity. Along with these, an increased glucose level (10,49) and an elevated white blood count (1,49) may also be significant of toxicity, as many patients assumed afflicted with mental disorders present with elevation of these (1,50). An elevated sedimentation rate, indicative of inflammatory processes, might signify rhabdomyolysis.
It's highly probable, that millions of consumers developed an allergy to caffeine, especially since availability and production increased rapidly mid- twentieth century. In which case, natural insights, and physical and mental health, have been sacrificed to chronic toxicity, resulting in organic brain, silently posing as ADD, ADHD, anxiety, BPD, depression, OCD, panic, and schizophrenia. Physical ailments resemble amphetamine poisoning, and include drug eruptions, masquerading as "rosacea."
Back in 1936, McManamy and Schube maintained that in all probability, many people of that era might have already been erroneously diagnosed with some form of mental illness. The doctors further predicted, that in the future, with lack of time, and proper medical insight, many doctors would not be able to diagnose simple disorders such as caffeine allergy, and would label many patients as psychotic (1).
Well, here we are. Welcome to the future.
(Copyright 2001 © Ruth Whalen M.L.T., ASCP, BA. [email protected] Reprinted with permission.)
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Posted by linkadge on June 30, 2005, at 15:27:18
In reply to Re: Caffeine » linkadge, posted by rod on June 28, 2005, at 17:30:30
THere are, of course, many biochemical mediatiors of what might anxiety in certain indivdiduals.
You noted that caffiene reduced the anti-anxiety effect of SSRI's in mice.
Well thats great, but I get no anti-anxiety effect from SSRI's.
I've been on and off coffee multiple times in my life for extended periods. When I am on it, I experience less anxiety, when I am on it, I experience more.
Usually, when I can't sleep, I need to get up, have a cup of coffee, and then go back to sleep.
I've been on over 50 different psychiatric medications. I know what they do to me, and what they don't do. Some kids can't sleep if they don't get their ritalin! Everybody reacts differently.
Linkadge
Posted by rod on June 30, 2005, at 17:12:07
In reply to Re: Caffeine, posted by linkadge on June 30, 2005, at 15:27:18
> THere are, of course, many biochemical mediatiors of what might anxiety in certain indivdiduals.
Sure, I have not meant something like: I know it better than you...
Just wanted to give some fresh ideas.> You noted that caffiene reduced the anti-anxiety effect of SSRI's in mice.
>
> Well thats great, but I get no anti-anxiety effect from SSRI's.
>hmmm ok. but I can remeber a post about Clomipramine where you said it has some anxiolytic propertiues for you like the SSRIs....
> I've been on and off coffee multiple times in my life for extended periods. When I am on it, I experience less anxiety, when I am on it, I experience more.
>
> Usually, when I can't sleep, I need to get up, have a cup of coffee, and then go back to sleep.hmmm maybe because it acutely masks an allergic reaction?
addiction?
or other stuff.
who knows.anyway......
> I've been on over 50 different psychiatric medications. I know what they do to me, and what they don't do. Some kids can't sleep if they don't get their ritalin! Everybody reacts differently.
>
>
>
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>just wanted to give some fresh ideas.......
whatever
bye
Posted by linkadge on June 30, 2005, at 23:44:12
In reply to Re: Caffeine, posted by rod on June 30, 2005, at 17:12:07
hmmm ok. but I can remeber a post about Clomipramine where you said it has some anxiolytic propertiues for you like the SSRIs
----------------------------------------------Perhaps, but in hindsight (being medication for the past 3 months) it is absolutely uncanny the amount of psychological anxiety SSRI's produce.
Like I said, I have not slept in the past 5 years. I am sleeping like how I remember when I was very young. The sleep that you don't remember. It is so hard to quantify what the SSRI/clomipramin actually do. Sure in lab rats they may reduce anxiety afer just two weeks, but after that its no mans land. Are they going to produce the same effects 6 months down the road? Are you just going to make things worse over time ? I report the anti-anxiety effect probably after a short while was like what I remember the SSRI's originally doing. But I guess after they depleat frontal cortex dopamine you get to thinking you can't really do anything. A little coffee helps my confidence. I can sit an actually do a simple task infront of me, without my mind trying to solve 1000 other tasks at the same time. That feeling is irreplacable. Isn't that what we all want, to be able to "take care of buisness" without your mind f'ing you over each time you try?
I've said a lot of things. But I realy can't say that I believe anything I've said in the past 5 years, because it was probably just one of those desires of mind to report that I'd found the "majic pill".
I know I don't make any sence. I've tried connecting my dots but I quickly learned that that activity is futile.
All I know is caffiene helps my current predicament. It makes me feel more grounded,
it stops the chatter, it gets me doing the things that matter most.Linkadge
This is the end of the thread.
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