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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 14 of 14. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
Ok, check this out----i have a brother who is autistic. He is being seen by a nurse practitioner, he has Intermmitent Explosive disorder among OCD and other autistic charactoristics. He is on a ton of medications and i just wanted to get some opinions of what they you would work, this is ridiculous but here goes...he takes...
Thorazine: 50 mgs two times a day
Geodon: 80 mgs 4 times a day
Seroquel: 300 mgs tablets 3 times a day and two tablets at bedtime=1500 mgs!
Risperdal Shot: 37.5 mg every two weeks
Depakote ER: 2; 500 mgs tablets 3 times a day=3000 mgs! (i hear the max is 2500!
Xanax: 2 mgs tablets 4 times a day
Halcion: 0.25 mgs at bedtime
Tegretol XR : 300 mgs 3 times a dayhe has no seizure disorders, but he does have a hard time sleeping and has extreme OCD. All this nurse does is either lower or raise medication. I mentioned luvox or zoloft to her and instead prescribed geoden for his OCD.
He has already gained lots of weight on these meds. who has heard of being on 4 different antipsychotics? No antidepressants//can anyone give me any feedback or opinions?
Posted by TomG on May 21, 2005, at 23:59:02
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
I would really like to ask his doc why the AP load. I wonder if the doc thinks that one AP is addressing a symptom that the other isn't. Thats an easy way to empty your bank account although Thorazine is probably really cheap. If you ever get an answer from the doc about his reasoning I would really like to hear it here on the board.
Tom
Posted by krybrahaha78 on May 22, 2005, at 0:36:17
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by TomG on May 21, 2005, at 23:59:02
its not even a doc---its a Nurse Practioner---who on earth needs so many antipsychotics--this guy is like so prone to TD right now and so many other things---besides even 3000 mgs of depakote...thats alot.
Posted by Declan on May 22, 2005, at 7:08:00
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 22, 2005, at 0:36:17
Well I have a brother who is classically autistic. He's 58, and so there were no drugs when he was a kid, except phenobarb, which he tried with no good result. We were lucky having the resources to employ the right people. All things considered he's had a good life. I can't imagine any drug that I know of would have really helped him much, except maybe something to calm him down a bit. When he was young it was really difficult, he was so afraid of half the world. What I'm feeling is that help for people like this comes from personal interaction, not from available drugs. I don't underestimate the suffering and difficulties. This person who cared for him would say, of whatever it was that was so frightening, "I won't let it hurt you, you must stay here with me." The drugs are a diversion, mainly.
Declan
Posted by ed_uk on May 22, 2005, at 7:22:33
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
Hi,
To say the least, I am disturbed by the amount of APs that he is being prescribed. The dose of Depakote is very high. The Xanax dose is also very high.
>who has heard of being on 4 different antipsychotics?
I have never heard of anyone taking more than 2 APs at once.
I would *seriously* consider arranging for your brother to see a reputable psychiatrist.
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by SLS on May 22, 2005, at 8:16:19
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
Hi.
That is quite a pharmacy your brother has circulating in his blood stream.
If I were in your position, I would feel more comfortable to seek a second and third opinion regarding your brother's treatment. It would, of course, be ideal to see physicians whom specialize in autism.
Geodon can sometimes cause pronounced insomnia, anxiety, and agitation. I would be inclined to question the need for it. Removing it might allow for the reduction of sleep and tranquilizing medications.
- Scott
Posted by JACJ on May 22, 2005, at 8:51:32
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by SLS on May 22, 2005, at 8:16:19
How long has he been on the AP's? IMO, I would be so worried about tardive dyskinesia. He needs to see a reputable doctor at once. This is TOO MANY AP's.
Posted by Racer on May 22, 2005, at 13:42:15
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
Yeh, I'd say a second opinion is way over due.
According to Temple Grandin, a high-functioning autistic, her life improved immeasurably when she was put on a TCA. It helped ease some of the sensory problems she had, and lowered her anxiety. I'd say that a good AD might help your brother a great deal.
I'm no great shakes when it comes to meds, except what i know about the meds I've been on, but it looks to me as though your brother is so heavily tranquilized he probably can't come close to functioning at his best. Chlorpromazine is related to acepromazine, which we use in horses a lot: give 'im enough Ace, and I could put a five year old princess on my monster ex-racer and turn my back without worries. AP it might be, but it's also quite a tranquilizer, when you come right down to it. I wonder if the NP is thinking that, since autism is "incurable," the best she can do is to restrict his behavior? NOT the best way to handle it.
How old is your brother? And what other treatment is he receiving?
I'm very sorry that your brother is getting this sort of polypharmacy going on.
Posted by Mandy on May 22, 2005, at 18:09:55
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
I have a 36 year old daughter with classic autism and I refused to have her on any medication when she was young because most did not work or were just major antipsychotics with too many side effects.(I am RN). She had some seizures about 15 years ago and was on tegretol and we found that had a calming effect so even though no formal seizure disorder, we kept her on that. Recently,she has had more OCD symptoms so she is now on low dose of lexapro.
She lives in her own home with supported living people and works 3 days a week at sporting goods store(with a support person.) She loves to ride horses and loves to bowl. Supported living has been the best thing for her--she lives quite a normal life in spite of her pretty severe language delay and autism.
I believe some of the newer meds may be helpful but "less" is better than more. Therapeutic horse riding is great. And having people in her life that care and attempt to give her normal life experiences has been the best. I also believer that all behaviors have a reason, just figuring it out is not always easy. Hope this helps some.
Posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2005, at 18:44:59
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by Mandy on May 22, 2005, at 18:09:55
My neighbor has an austistic 8yr old son. She just joined Melaleuca for the chemical free products. She also gives him 5mg of melatonin at bedtime. She says this allows him to sleep. She refuses all other meds. And she feels strongly that innoculations as a baby caused his disease. She won't let them innoculate her 5 yr old. I know a lot of people will disagree with this but I'm just repeating what she has told me. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by krybrahaha78 on May 23, 2005, at 0:25:01
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by Phillipa on May 22, 2005, at 18:44:59
i am definately getting a second opinion. I certainly know he at least needs to be on some sort of antidepressant====dont high doses of antipsychotics make ocd worse? Anyways thanks for the responses, he will be seeing someone else next week and figure some stuff out.
Posted by DanielJ on May 23, 2005, at 8:16:27
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by Declan on May 22, 2005, at 7:08:00
I would think it overkill to have such a large variety of medications which all have similar effects. Sometimes this is derived by layering meds, in other words keep on adding another dose of something different till the symptoms improve. Sometimes this can work but I think with so many it is probably one or two of them that are doing most of the work. In order to find out which ones he still needs, one at a time would have to be discontinued. This might be difficult (but not impossible) because a dosage of a single one might have to be increased to fill in for the lack of another.
A second medical opinion would be a good idea.
Posted by mike13 on May 23, 2005, at 18:55:53
In reply to Re: Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by DanielJ on May 23, 2005, at 8:16:27
That is insane,
When I was on AN AP, I could hardly tolerate it alone let alone many at once..
Posted by Racer on May 26, 2005, at 14:40:58
In reply to Check this---my autistic brothers med list..., posted by krybrahaha78 on May 21, 2005, at 23:24:59
After reading Temple Grandin's books, like "Emergence: Labelled Austistic," I do think there's definitely a place for some psychoactive drugs in the treatment of autism.
But I also know -- as in been there, seen that -- that many autistic children can benefit a great deal from Hippotherapy. "Benefit" as in "improve maybe more than you would expect." Here are a few links for you, if you're interested:
http://www.autisticsociety.org/autism-article176.html
This is an article about hippotherapy in autism.http://www.icanride.org/autism.html
Another article.http://www.strides.org/other.html
A lot of links about therapeutic riding, etc.http://www.narha.org/
THE place to go if you want to find a center near you -- although, if you don't see anything right near you, ask around at local barns. When I taught at one place, even though we didn't "do" therapeutic riding, I did take on kids with problems like CP if they asked. If a good teacher with some understanding of the problems involved has a horse available who can be part of a "treatment team", well, you might luck out with someone who can offer something good. Sometimes, despite lack of a formal program, just having the direct, individual attention can help a lot.I hope this helps, and if you do find your brother going that route, let me know through babblemail, OK?
(By the way, here's a story about hippotherapy and autism. This kid was just not getting it, with another teacher, not me. No matter how many times the teacher would tell him that he needed to sit up straight and tall, he still leaned way over to the side -- almost as though he was just testing her limits. One day, when he was leaning and she'd said it one time too many, she took one finger and poked at him. He went off to the side, and got up saying, "HORSEBACK RIDING!" With a huge lightbulb over his head, that you could almost see. When he got on, he never leaned again. Somehow, that experience helped him see the connection between sitting up and staying on, as well as the idea that the consequences were a natural function of what he was doing. Apparently, that improvement spread to other things, too, where the idea of "action -- consequences" played a role.)
Good luck.
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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