![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 16:52:34
Yup, my endocrinologist said there is nothing wrong with me because my TSH and T4 came back fine.
I told him about some of the symptoms I have been having and he said anti-depressant and/or depression can cause everything I describe. So no more tests for me.
La-la-la-la-la! I am fine. I guess that is why I want to kill myself. Because I am so f*cking fine that I can hardly stand it!
Maxime
Posted by Spriggy on April 11, 2005, at 17:09:46
In reply to Everything is fine, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 16:52:34
Maxime,
I have been reading a lot about endocronologist and the thyroid.
I actually read last night that a GOOD endocronologist will not accept the blood test results (when normal) if a patient still displays all the symptoms of having a problem.Is there any way you could get in to another eno??? I don't know how it works up there but I would try to find another one.
I am so sorry. I can only imagine how you feel. Actually, if they tell me this on Wednesday, I will know EXACTLY how you feel.
When you feel THIS bad, you just KNOW there has to be SOMETHING... SOMEWHERE wrong in our bodies. There just has to.
I feel it (physically) and my biggest fear is all my tests will be fine. I am scared to death of that- who would ever think that you woudl WANT something wrong with you physically???
But I understand I am SOO sorry.
*sigh*
I wish I had something better to say to help you. I really do. But I am praying.
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 17:39:12
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by Spriggy on April 11, 2005, at 17:09:46
Thanks Spriggy. But you already KNOW that your tests are abnormal because they told you that, so you know that something is wrong and you know they will do something about it.
I CAN'T SEE ANOTHER ENDO!
I'm not going to try anymore. I am not taking anymore psych meds. I will take my thyroid meds. I will plan on catching bus before 2006, and I will succeed.
I'm sorry for being such being such a bitch but I am really upset. Oh and he told me that people with thyroid problems are known to have "hypochondrias".
Maxime
Maxime
> Maxime,
> I have been reading a lot about endocronologist and the thyroid.
> I actually read last night that a GOOD endocronologist will not accept the blood test results (when normal) if a patient still displays all the symptoms of having a problem.
>
> Is there any way you could get in to another eno??? I don't know how it works up there but I would try to find another one.
>
> I am so sorry. I can only imagine how you feel. Actually, if they tell me this on Wednesday, I will know EXACTLY how you feel.
>
> When you feel THIS bad, you just KNOW there has to be SOMETHING... SOMEWHERE wrong in our bodies. There just has to.
>
> I feel it (physically) and my biggest fear is all my tests will be fine. I am scared to death of that- who would ever think that you woudl WANT something wrong with you physically???
>
> But I understand I am SOO sorry.
>
> *sigh*
>
> I wish I had something better to say to help you. I really do. But I am praying.
>
>
Posted by EERRIICC on April 11, 2005, at 18:01:57
In reply to Everything is fine, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 16:52:34
Maxime, I hope you feel better soon; it is so hard to imagine other states of mind when you're depressed, it's like a mental filter that fades out everything except its unique and horrible pain.
You're in Toronto right? I live in Whitby and I see a doctor at the CAMH, she's really good, have you seen anyone there? Have you heard about the DBS study that is going on?
Eric
Posted by CK1 on April 11, 2005, at 18:03:40
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Spriggy, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 17:39:12
If you had a test and your thyroid is normal, why would you have another test! That's ridiculous. Just accept the fact that it's not your thyroid..it's depression. I had all the tests in the book the past two months and everything is normal and I accept this. Don't blame your depression on "hypothyroidism" when you now know your thyroid is fine. just my advice! not trying to be rude!
Posted by Racer on April 11, 2005, at 18:12:39
In reply to Everything is fine, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 16:52:34
This makes me so frustrated. Just when you most need to be able to speak up for yourself and listen, you're feeling too rotten to do it. And the doctors take advantage of our vulnerability.
Now, he did say, though, that the physical symptoms you're experiencing could be related to anti-depressants? Fine. In that case, you have something to take with you to the pdoc -- and, if he says that it's not the meds, you tell him that the endo didn't want to hear it from you, so he'll have to call himself. And when he tells you that it's not his job to talk to your other doctor, have yourself a merry little tantrum on his rug: "The endo wouldn't listen to me, he said it was your problem. Now you won't listen to me, you say it's his problem! What in the [expletive deleted] am I supposed to do, if you both keep PASSING THE BUCK?" And if none of that gets him motivated, tell him that you are really unhappy about having real physical problems shoved aside as "merely hypochondriasis."
Bad word! It's ever so easy, isn't it, to blame it all on hypochondria when a doctor can't figure out what's going on. That's where I start getting snarky with doctors: "Gee, doc, I've been told that that's what doctors say when they just don't have the skills to diagnose a complex problem -- but I know it's not what you're doing..."
Ugh. I'm sorry, Maxime. I know that everything is NOT fine, and I really hope that someone outside this little online community will take you seriously and get you some relief!
Posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2005, at 18:22:03
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Maxime, posted by Racer on April 11, 2005, at 18:12:39
Maxime, I feel the same way as Banga does. I've never been told I'm a hypochondriac, but you can sense it when you see a doctor if you have a hx of psych. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 20:17:15
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by EERRIICC on April 11, 2005, at 18:01:57
Hi. No I live in Montreal. Yes, I know about the DBS study and my doctor put in a referral. But since I have had a DX of BP type 2 I won't qualify. I am not even sure if that is a proper DX because of my thyroid. I don't know anything anymore except that I am tired, depressed and suicidal.
Thanks for your empathy though, it's very much appreciated.
Maxime
> Maxime, I hope you feel better soon; it is so hard to imagine other states of mind when you're depressed, it's like a mental filter that fades out everything except its unique and horrible pain.
>
> You're in Toronto right? I live in Whitby and I see a doctor at the CAMH, she's really good, have you seen anyone there? Have you heard about the DBS study that is going on?
>
> Eric
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 20:29:19
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by CK1 on April 11, 2005, at 18:03:40
Well for someone who isn't trying to be rude, you are sure doing a good job of it. I would hate to see a post where rudeness was your intention!
Just because my TSH comes back normal doesn't mean that my thyroid is fine. There is a panel of tests that should be done but aren't. So I haven't had all the tests. Several years ago I had the complete panel done and the doctor said that my thyroid was messed up etc. and then she left the city and then I left that Province so I couldn't follow up on everything. My Dad had just dies and my thryoid was the least of my problems.
The fact that I lactated after being on a med for only a week could signal a problem with my thryoid and in fact I am having a blood test done to see why my prolactin level is but I have to wait 6-8 weeks. My body temperature in lower than normal and I am always cold. My skin is dry. I would be losing my hair (I started to last year) except I take I high doses of selenium and zinc. I am exhausted all the time. When I first suffered from depression I wasn't the "sleepy depressive". I was the "I can't sleep at all" type.
I would expect a little more empathy from someone who has also had mental illness. I am perfectly willing to accept that I have depression. But there is other stuff going on in my body. It's my body and I know it better than anyone.
Maxime
> If you had a test and your thyroid is normal, why would you have another test! That's ridiculous. Just accept the fact that it's not your thyroid..it's depression. I had all the tests in the book the past two months and everything is normal and I accept this. Don't blame your depression on "hypothyroidism" when you now know your thyroid is fine. just my advice! not trying to be rude!
Posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 20:33:28
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Maxime, posted by Racer on April 11, 2005, at 18:12:39
I am so sorry Maxime that it didnt go well. It is SO frustrating. As I've said in other posts, this thing about hypochondriasis and women is unbelievable. If it weren't for experiences like yours and mine, I would never have believed how bad this problem is--I still am in disbelief. Is that all they teach in med school??
Obviously there are many good doctors out there, I do not want to offend the ones who do right....BUT YOu know, maybe we could save everyone a lot of time and money if the central rules were spelled out short form for those who want to take the short cut.
GOLDEN RULE
**If it is not in a blood test, it does not exist.AND OTHER HINTS
**If you measure the blood pressure, that shows that you are taking them seriously...do this frequently (even if you are unsure what the little numbers mean).
***If your patient is female, look concerned and pat her hand understandingly. She is only looking for love and attention. Its all in her head.*** Dont bother reading literature and the most recent studies. Too complex. Go by your 15-year old textbook, the expiration date on the information is 100 years.
Racer said--
>>> Bad word! It's ever so easy, isn't it, to blame it all on hypochondria when a doctor can't figure out what's going on. That's where I start getting snarky with doctors: "Gee, doc, I've been told that that's what doctors say when they just don't have the skills to diagnose a complex problem -- but I know it's not what you're doing..."
>I had similar thoughts as to what Id want to tell the doctor, but the language was far less polite, it involved various objects that I would....but i suppose that would get me bleeped if I said more.
Please hang in there!
Posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 20:35:48
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 20:33:28
Oh And I forgot:
***If your brilliant treatment does not work, blame the patient. they are just not trying hard enough and enjoy the attention they get for being ill.
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 20:43:10
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Maxime, posted by Racer on April 11, 2005, at 18:12:39
Racer, I can't talk like that to anyone. I just can't. Besides, I am not going to be on any more anti-depressants. It ends now. There is nothing left for me to try ... not in this country anyway. And I think I am just one of those people who does respond to meds. Lord knows I have tried enough.
I have never been a hypochondriac. In fact I am the opposite. I usually assume that whatever I am feeling is psychosomatic and I brushed it off and just put up with it.
Thyroid problems and depression are intertwined. I've read that it can take up to a year before you feel normal after having a thyroid problem and many people never feel the same again.
I'm not pursuing it any further. I am not going to complain ever again about I feel. I am just going to "be". Eventually it will consume me and then I will be at peace. I have no purpose. There is no great plan for me. It's just me and Darwin.
Maxime
> This makes me so frustrated. Just when you most need to be able to speak up for yourself and listen, you're feeling too rotten to do it. And the doctors take advantage of our vulnerability.
>
> Now, he did say, though, that the physical symptoms you're experiencing could be related to anti-depressants? Fine. In that case, you have something to take with you to the pdoc -- and, if he says that it's not the meds, you tell him that the endo didn't want to hear it from you, so he'll have to call himself. And when he tells you that it's not his job to talk to your other doctor, have yourself a merry little tantrum on his rug: "The endo wouldn't listen to me, he said it was your problem. Now you won't listen to me, you say it's his problem! What in the [expletive deleted] am I supposed to do, if you both keep PASSING THE BUCK?" And if none of that gets him motivated, tell him that you are really unhappy about having real physical problems shoved aside as "merely hypochondriasis."
>
> Bad word! It's ever so easy, isn't it, to blame it all on hypochondria when a doctor can't figure out what's going on. That's where I start getting snarky with doctors: "Gee, doc, I've been told that that's what doctors say when they just don't have the skills to diagnose a complex problem -- but I know it's not what you're doing..."
>
> Ugh. I'm sorry, Maxime. I know that everything is NOT fine, and I really hope that someone outside this little online community will take you seriously and get you some relief!
Posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:09:34
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Spriggy, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 17:39:12
> I'm not going to try anymore. I am not taking anymore psych meds. I will take my thyroid meds. I will plan on catching bus before 2006, and I will succeed.
Maxime,
Please don't CTB! I'm feeling really really sh*tty right now because I've just stupidly overdosed on DXM and I wish I hadn't...oh god I wish I hadn't. Life is much much better than dying...even if life is very very sh*tty at the moment. Dying really really sucks...it feels really bad. Just stay and be yourself...the h*ll with the world. Just do whatever the f*ck you want to get some enjoyment out of life...that is what everyone must do anyways. Don't CTB, cuz you deserve to be selfish...the world hasn't been treating you right. Try to get everything you can outta the world.Shy_Girl
>
> I'm sorry for being such being such a bitch but I am really upset. Oh and he told me that people with thyroid problems are known to have "hypochondrias".
>
> Maxime
>
> Maxime
>
>
> > Maxime,
> > I have been reading a lot about endocronologist and the thyroid.
> > I actually read last night that a GOOD endocronologist will not accept the blood test results (when normal) if a patient still displays all the symptoms of having a problem.
> >
> > Is there any way you could get in to another eno??? I don't know how it works up there but I would try to find another one.
> >
> > I am so sorry. I can only imagine how you feel. Actually, if they tell me this on Wednesday, I will know EXACTLY how you feel.
> >
> > When you feel THIS bad, you just KNOW there has to be SOMETHING... SOMEWHERE wrong in our bodies. There just has to.
> >
> > I feel it (physically) and my biggest fear is all my tests will be fine. I am scared to death of that- who would ever think that you woudl WANT something wrong with you physically???
> >
> > But I understand I am SOO sorry.
> >
> > *sigh*
> >
> > I wish I had something better to say to help you. I really do. But I am praying.
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2005, at 21:12:48
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:09:34
Shy Girl, are you calling 9ll? Is anyone there with you? Please get some help now! Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 21:13:33
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 20:35:48
> Oh And I forgot:
>
> ***If your brilliant treatment does not work, blame the patient. they are just not trying hard enough and enjoy the attention they get for being ill.LOL - no that is when you get the dx of Borderline Personality Disorder! LOL!
Maxime
Posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 21:35:05
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » banga, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 21:13:33
> > ***If your brilliant treatment does not work, blame the patient. they are just not trying hard enough and enjoy the attention they get for being ill.
>
> LOL - no that is when you get the dx of Borderline Personality Disorder! LOL!
>
> MaximeLOL Escalation of diagnoses, that is called. Watch out for 'diagnostica escalata'. Their trump card when all else fails.
Their last defense before they realize they are not perfect and have a meltdown. We should know better than to try and break grandiose delusions...Maybe WE should pat THEIR hand, look understanding and empathetic, and say "it's OK ...."
(Ahem, apologies to the true docs out there...we know you are there, why cant people get to you??)
Posted by banga on April 11, 2005, at 21:39:09
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:09:34
Are you there??? I hope you have called for help. Do what you have to to get help now.
Worried,
B.
Posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:41:19
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Shy_Girl, posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2005, at 21:12:48
> Shy Girl, are you calling 9ll? Is anyone there with you? Please get some help now! Fondly, Phillipa
I thnk I'm going to be ok...I think I'm comming down. I can walk better now. I will be ok in the morning. I will throw away the bottle of syrup.
Posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2005, at 21:47:02
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:41:19
Thank-you Shy_Girl for posting back. You had me worried. Please call your pdoc and tell him what you did. You need a med adjustment or some inpt tx don't you think? I care. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:55:20
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Shy_Girl, posted by Phillipa on April 11, 2005, at 21:47:02
> Thank-you Shy_Girl for posting back. You had me worried. Please call your pdoc and tell him what you did. You need a med adjustment or some inpt tx don't you think? I care. Fondly, Phillipa
Thank-you for caring. I wasn't intending on dying. See the thread on DXM on the substance broad for more info. I think I got a little scared and thought I was dying. I drank the dxm at around 4 and only now am I starting to feel better.
Sorry for misdirecting the thread.
Again, Maxime, all the best.
Shy_Girl
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 22:28:57
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by Shy_Girl on April 11, 2005, at 21:55:20
SG, you have nothing to be sorry about. This thread is over anyway. Do call your pdoc though and take care of yourself.
Hugs,
Maxime
> > Thank-you Shy_Girl for posting back. You had me worried. Please call your pdoc and tell him what you did. You need a med adjustment or some inpt tx don't you think? I care. Fondly, Phillipa
>
> Thank-you for caring. I wasn't intending on dying. See the thread on DXM on the substance broad for more info. I think I got a little scared and thought I was dying. I drank the dxm at around 4 and only now am I starting to feel better.
>
> Sorry for misdirecting the thread.
>
> Again, Maxime, all the best.
>
> Shy_Girl
Posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 23:33:41
In reply to Re: Everything is fine, posted by CK1 on April 11, 2005, at 18:03:40
Damn you were rude!
Maxime
> If you had a test and your thyroid is normal, why would you have another test! That's ridiculous. Just accept the fact that it's not your thyroid..it's depression. I had all the tests in the book the past two months and everything is normal and I accept this. Don't blame your depression on "hypothyroidism" when you now know your thyroid is fine. just my advice! not trying to be rude!
Posted by ed_uk on April 12, 2005, at 12:15:10
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » CK1, posted by Maxime on April 11, 2005, at 23:33:41
Dear Maxime,
I'm sorry that your endo is such a sh*t.
Some pdocs use T3 to 'augment' antidepressants, even in patients who are not hypothyroid. Perhaps you could encourage your pdoc to prescribe it on this basis.
PS. I'm not saying that you're not hypothyroid, I'm just trying to think of a way that you could get to try T3. You could say to your pdoc......
Due to my symptoms, I believe that I'm hypo..... my endo says I'm not BUT.........
It doesn't matter because you can prescribe T3 as an AD augmentor even if I'm not hypothyroid.
It might work :-) Your pdoc could measure your thyroid function tests in order to monitor the T3 therapy. If your pdoc was to prescribe T3, he might want you to take a TCA.
You could show this to your pdoc...............
J Clin Psychiatry. 1992 Jan;53(1):16-8.
Comment in:
J Clin Psychiatry. 1993 Jul;54(7):277-9.T3 augmentation of antidepressant treatment in T4-replaced thyroid patients.
Cooke RG, Joffe RT, Levitt AJ.
Department of Psychiatry, University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
BACKGROUND: Clinicians may not consider using the thyroid hormone liothyronine sodium (levorotary isomer of triiodothyronine [T3]) for augmentation of antidepressant drugs in depressed patients who are also receiving the precursor hormone levothyroxine (levorotary isomer of thyroxine [T4]) for thyroid disease. We now report on the successful use of T3 augmentation therapy in seven of nine depressed patients who were also receiving T4 for thyroid disease. METHOD: Following an earlier single case report, we prescribed T3 augmentation therapy for eight depressed patients who had not responded to an adequate antidepressant drug trial and who were receiving T4 therapy for thyroid disease. T3 was prescribed in open-label fashion, and response was judged by the clinician, whose assessment was supplemented by the use of standardized rating scales. RESULTS: Seven of the nine patients were judged to respond to T3 augmentation. CONCLUSION: These results are consistent with a report of differential effects for T3 versus T4 augmentation in depressed patients free of thyroid disease. The results have implications for the treatment of depression in the presence of thyroid disease and for the mechanism of thyroid hormone potentiation of antidepressants.
Ed xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Posted by Maxime on April 12, 2005, at 14:17:33
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » Maxime, posted by ed_uk on April 12, 2005, at 12:15:10
Thanks Ed.
Actually my pdoc believes in T3 therapy. He did call my endo and asked that I be treated with Synthroid AND Cytomel. My endo said no.
My pdoc won't treat me with T3 because of Synthroid I am taking. He can't start prescribing Cytomel when I am already on Syntroid because then my Synthroid would have to be adjusted. And if my endo know that my pdoc is giving me T3 he will just say "bye-bye" which really wouldn't be that a big a deal in my opinion ... it would be welcomed. I already asked my PDOC to do this (to give me the T3)and he said no. That is why he initially wanted me to see the endo he send his patients to see. He must know that the endo will combine Synthroid and Cytomel.
It's so frustrating! But you already know I feel that way. :-)
Love,
Maxi
> Dear Maxime,
>
> I'm sorry that your endo is such a sh*t.
>
> Some pdocs use T3 to 'augment' antidepressants, even in patients who are not hypothyroid. Perhaps you could encourage your pdoc to prescribe it on this basis.
>
> PS. I'm not saying that you're not hypothyroid, I'm just trying to think of a way that you could get to try T3. You could say to your pdoc......
>
> Due to my symptoms, I believe that I'm hypo..... my endo says I'm not BUT.........
>
> It doesn't matter because you can prescribe T3 as an AD augmentor even if I'm not hypothyroid.
>
> It might work :-) Your pdoc could measure your thyroid function tests in order to monitor the T3 therapy. If your pdoc was to prescribe T3, he might want you to take a TCA.
>
> You could show this to your pdoc...............
>
> J Clin Psychiatry. 1992 Jan;53(1):16-8.
>
> Comment in:
> J Clin Psychiatry. 1993 Jul;54(7):277-9.
>
> T3 augmentation of antidepressant treatment in T4-replaced thyroid patients.
>
> Cooke RG, Joffe RT, Levitt AJ.
>
> Department of Psychiatry, University of Toronto, Ontario, Canada.
>
> BACKGROUND: Clinicians may not consider using the thyroid hormone liothyronine sodium (levorotary isomer of triiodothyronine [T3]) for augmentation of antidepressant drugs in depressed patients who are also receiving the precursor hormone levothyroxine (levorotary isomer of thyroxine [T4]) for thyroid disease. We now report on the successful use of T3 augmentation therapy in seven of nine depressed patients who were also receiving T4 for thyroid disease. METHOD: Following an earlier single case report, we prescribed T3 augmentation therapy for eight depressed patients who had not responded to an adequate antidepressant drug trial and who were receiving T4 therapy for thyroid disease. T3 was prescribed in open-label fashion, and response was judged by the clinician, whose assessment was supplemented by the use of standardized rating scales. RESULTS: Seven of the nine patients were judged to respond to T3 augmentation. CONCLUSION: These results are consistent with a report of differential effects for T3 versus T4 augmentation in depressed patients free of thyroid disease. The results have implications for the treatment of depression in the presence of thyroid disease and for the mechanism of thyroid hormone potentiation of antidepressants.
>
> Ed xxxxxxxxxxxxx
>
>
Posted by ed_uk on April 12, 2005, at 15:53:24
In reply to Re: Everything is fine » ed_uk, posted by Maxime on April 12, 2005, at 14:17:33
Hi Maxi,
>I already asked my PDOC to do this (to give me the T3)and he said no.....
Do you think your pdoc might possibly be willing to prescribe T3 if you stopped seeing the endo??
Ed xxxx
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.