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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 18 of 18. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 8:51:39
My Neuro. thinks I may have BP II. I've been reading up on it, and I didn't find any mention of some of my key symptoms/signs. Do any of you BP IIs experience any or all of the following:
-- intermittent ringing ears that are worse during hyopmanic phase?
--- you have periods during the day when you feel almost "normal" whatever phase you are in?
--- you've had symptoms during the hypomanic phase which are similar to those of a transient ischemic attack?
---- you've had as many as 4 to 6 mood swings in one 24 hr period for many days in a row?
---- you've experienced excessive salivation while eating when in hypomanic phase?
I can't find any mention of the above in any of the articles I've read.
Also, Im thinking of asking my pdoc if I can be hospitalzed for 24 hours at a major university neuropsychiatric hospital -- strictly for assessment? Does this sound reasonable/possible?Thanks
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:40:32
In reply to Bipolar II questions, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 8:51:39
Didn't you recently start Wellbutrin? I had horrible mood swings on Wellbutrin. I wasn't on a mood stabilizer at the time, but I had similar reactions to Effexor with a mood stabilizer.
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 10:45:07
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions » fires, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 9:40:32
> Didn't you recently start Wellbutrin? I had horrible mood swings on Wellbutrin. I wasn't on a mood stabilizer at the time, but I had similar reactions to Effexor with a mood stabilizer.
I've been on Wellbutrin XL for about 6 weeks. I switched to generic buproprion SR a couple of weeks ago. I don't think that should be a problem, but I realize that there are always some who say that generics can be inferior.
Too much Effexor made me have adrenalin surges and talk to much and too fast. I recently tried to increase my dose of Wellbutrin to 300 mg/day, and within 24-48 hours, it became apparent that I was becoming to "hyper." ( Until I actually get an official BP II DX, I prefer to speak in terms of adrenalin and hyper, rather than hypomania). While on Effex. + Remeron.,I had one major "panic attack" during which I didn't experience any panic - just too much adrenalin . I suppose if I had panicked over that, I wouldn't object to the term panic attack.
Thanks
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 10:51:39
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions » Dinah, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 10:45:07
I don't think you should rule out the Wellbutrin as a possible cause, or contributing factor. I suspect the recent upsurge in bipolar spectrum diagnosis is related to the common dispersal of antidepressants. In fact "Bipolar III" is defined in terms of antidepressants.
Maybe you could ask your doctor if he thinks adding a mood stabilizer would help. Wellbutrin is quite activating, and the ear ringing in particular is a common side effect of antidepressants. It drove me crazy (figuratively speaking) last time I tried Luvox.
I'm not saying you should quit Wellbutrin, of course. It helps many people. Just evaluate it as a possible contributing factor and ask your doctor if there are ways to mitigate the negative effects. It works on norepinephrine, you know. So if you are sensitive to adrenaline, you might need something to counteract it's effect there.
I'm not a doctor of course, so I'm just throwing in something that helped (or rather hurt) me in the past.
Posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 10:56:34
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions » Dinah, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 10:45:07
http://www.psychopharmacology.net/bipolar3.htm
Posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2005, at 11:13:05
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions » fires, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 10:51:39
If you don't have a BP II or other diagnosis to go on, work on that. BP III, as Dinah mentioned, is considered by some psychiatrists to represent a sort of antidepressant-induced or aggravated mood-disorder. Even if you're not BP I or II or even III, a mood-stabilizer can help even things out for people who have depression characterized by mood-swings, cyclothymia, or even treatment-resistant depression. As for going to a hospital...its really up to you, and you need to determine if your time and resources are best spent pursuing that. I will say this: I'm BP I-II (apparently, this depends on the shrink who treats me) and so are a number of my friends...all of us have made conscious efforts to avoid hospitalization whenever reasonably possible. Research shows that former psychiatric inpatients, even those who signed themselves in voluntarily, face a stigma and resulting discrimination not experienced by others, even those with more severe diagnoses who have managed to remain outpatients. As I said, its unfair, and it sucks, but it appears to be the reality.
Posted by Spriggy on February 28, 2005, at 12:15:30
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions, posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2005, at 11:13:05
I think if you feel out of control and really feel the need to be monintored/assessed, go ahead and go into the hospital.I battled with that decision for weeks and weeks and finally went last week and spent 4 days being "stabilized."
My pdoc was trying to decide if I was either Bipolar 2 (more because of family history and recent behavior) or experiencing akathasia from the medication.
He concluded it was just akathasia but since I am still having the same symptoms, I am beginning to really think I have bipolar 2.
I don't have the good euphoric "manic" moments like my father has, but mine are more dysphoric; I get agitated, restless, anxiety out the ying yang. My mind races, I feel super tired and depressed and at the same time on edge and keyed up.
It's so weird.
I hope you find some answers soon.
Posted by Ritch on February 28, 2005, at 13:04:20
In reply to Bipolar II questions, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 8:51:39
> My Neuro. thinks I may have BP II. I've been reading up on it, and I didn't find any mention of some of my key symptoms/signs. Do any of you BP IIs experience any or all of the following:
>
> -- intermittent ringing ears that are worse during hyopmanic phase?Get the intermittent ringing ears, but they are mostly triggered by antidepressants.
>
> --- you have periods during the day when you feel almost "normal" whatever phase you are in?Yes, sometimes I feel fine the first few hours of the day and then start feeling like crap toward the end of the day.. sometimes that is reversed.
>
> --- you've had symptoms during the hypomanic phase which are similar to those of a transient ischemic attack?Stroke? Not that I can remember. What are your symptoms...?
>
> ---- you've had as many as 4 to 6 mood swings in one 24 hr period for many days in a row?When totally untreated when I was 19, I had some frequent daily mood flips for several days during the time of year I tend to get "mixed" episodes or depressed.
>
> ---- you've experienced excessive salivation while eating when in hypomanic phase?WB and Celexa/Lexapro can trigger a swallowing 'tic', lexapro made it a little tough to stop salivating and swallowing after eating.
>
> I can't find any mention of the above in any of the articles I've read.
>
>
> Also, Im thinking of asking my pdoc if I can be hospitalzed for 24 hours at a major university neuropsychiatric hospital -- strictly for assessment? Does this sound reasonable/possible?
>
> Thanks
>If you are seeing a neurologist at the moment, you might ask about getting a 24-hr. ambulatory sleep-deprived EEG done, to see if there is a seizure focus someplace.
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 13:47:51
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions » fires, posted by Dinah on February 28, 2005, at 10:51:39
> I don't think you should rule out the Wellbutrin as a possible cause, or contributing factor. I suspect the recent upsurge in bipolar spectrum diagnosis is related to the common dispersal of antidepressants. In fact "Bipolar III" is defined in terms of antidepressants.
>
> Maybe you could ask your doctor if he thinks adding a mood stabilizer would help. Wellbutrin is quite activating, and the ear ringing in particular is a common side effect of antidepressants. It drove me crazy (figuratively speaking) last time I tried Luvox.
>
> I'm not saying you should quit Wellbutrin, of course. It helps many people. Just evaluate it as a possible contributing factor and ask your doctor if there are ways to mitigate the negative effects. It works on norepinephrine, you know. So if you are sensitive to adrenaline, you might need something to counteract it's effect there.
>
> I'm not a doctor of course, so I'm just throwing in something that helped (or rather hurt) me in the past.My pdoc will probably add a mood stabilizer this Thursday. What I don't understand is how I did so well on Parnate for 15+ years; then I stopped it because a cardio. thought it was causing my new onset of tachycardia, then my tachycardia was found to be due to another condition; then I don't do real well on Effexor; and SSRIs make me absolutely sick (mentally and physically), as did Cymbalta.
And: Effexor +lamictal didn't work for me. It's beginning to seem that I may need to see a bipolar specialist, like my Neuro. suggested.
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 16:56:57
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions, posted by med_empowered on February 28, 2005, at 11:13:05
> If you don't have a BP II or other diagnosis to go on, work on that. BP III, as Dinah mentioned, is considered by some psychiatrists to represent a sort of antidepressant-induced or aggravated mood-disorder. Even if you're not BP I or II or even III, a mood-stabilizer can help even things out for people who have depression characterized by mood-swings, cyclothymia, or even treatment-resistant depression. As for going to a hospital...its really up to you, and you need to determine if your time and resources are best spent pursuing that. I will say this: I'm BP I-II (apparently, this depends on the shrink who treats me) and so are a number of my friends...all of us have made conscious efforts to avoid hospitalization whenever reasonably possible. Research shows that former psychiatric inpatients, even those who signed themselves in voluntarily, face a stigma and resulting discrimination not experienced by others, even those with more severe diagnoses who have managed to remain outpatients. As I said, its unfair, and it sucks, but it appears to be the reality.
I understand. When I was hospitalized for unipolar years ago, most of the other patients were BPs. The scariest part was that so many of them had to be hospitalized fairly often due to med changes/adjustments. I went to hospital for palpitations Sat. night, which I've never had like I did that night.Also, my Neuro. suggested I see a BP specialist.I have the names of 4 "big" psychopharmacologists(most, if not all, with Univ. links, but not necessarily BP specialists) but they don't take my insurance.
Also, I don't think I mentioned it but my "recent" health problems began after a bout of pneumonia. I've read about the theoretical link between viral illnesses and BP (and schizophrenia, etc..). I'm wondering if anyone else can trace the onset of their BP to a viral illness (or bacterial)? Especially if you had been only unipolar for decades prior.
Thanks
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 17:08:43
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions, posted by Spriggy on February 28, 2005, at 12:15:30
>
> I think if you feel out of control and really feel the need to be monintored/assessed, go ahead and go into the hospital.
>
> I battled with that decision for weeks and weeks and finally went last week and spent 4 days being "stabilized."
>
> My pdoc was trying to decide if I was either Bipolar 2 (more because of family history and recent behavior) or experiencing akathasia from the medication.
>
> He concluded it was just akathasia but since I am still having the same symptoms, I am beginning to really think I have bipolar 2.
>
> I don't have the good euphoric "manic" moments like my father has, but mine are more dysphoric; I get agitated, restless, anxiety out the ying yang. My mind races, I feel super tired and depressed and at the same time on edge and keyed up.
>
> It's so weird.
>
> I hope you find some answers soon.
Your description of how you feel is much like mine, except I don't get very anxious or restless.
I definitely get the "wired but tired" thing. Only problem is that I have POTS (a type of orthostatic intolerance) also, and it can cause the same thing:"wired but tired". In fact it was in a POTS article that I first heard of the phrase. I see my pdoc Thurs., and I'm anticipating her adding a mood regulator to my meds.Thanks
Posted by gardenergirl on February 28, 2005, at 17:27:55
In reply to Re: Bipolar II questions, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 17:08:43
Just a quick question, fires.
You didn't, perchance, take Biaxin for your pneumonia, did you? I took Biaxin XL for one week for a nasty sinus infection a couple of years ago. It made me hypomanic while I was on it. My GP did not believe me until I made him pull out the package insert and showed him the side effects which included: mania, psychosis, and transient CNS symptoms.
gg
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 17:31:14
In reply to Hypomania and infections » fires, posted by gardenergirl on February 28, 2005, at 17:27:55
> Just a quick question, fires.
>
> You didn't, perchance, take Biaxin for your pneumonia, did you? I took Biaxin XL for one week for a nasty sinus infection a couple of years ago. It made me hypomanic while I was on it. My GP did not believe me until I made him pull out the package insert and showed him the side effects which included: mania, psychosis, and transient CNS symptoms.
>> gg
It was 2 years ago. I think I took Zithromax and 2 types of inhalers for only a brief time.
Posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2005, at 17:46:06
In reply to Re: Hypomania and infections, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 17:31:14
Well that's interesting! I was being treated with Biaxin XL for chronic Lymes disease. Two days after I finished the med, I was sitting eating a sandwich on the beach. In a great mood. The next thing i knew was that I felt like something had hit me over the head. My energy left me and I was depressed again. Fondly, Phillipa
Posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 20:31:05
In reply to Re: Hypomania and infections, posted by Phillipa on February 28, 2005, at 17:46:06
I've had no hypomania today at all -- not even a very mild episode. I find this all very strange.
Posted by Spriggy on March 1, 2005, at 15:16:03
In reply to Re: No hypomania today, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 20:31:05
?
Posted by fires on March 1, 2005, at 17:38:27
In reply to what is POTS??, posted by Spriggy on March 1, 2005, at 15:16:03
> ?
It stands for Postural Orthostatic Tachycardia Syndrome which is a type of orthostatic intolerance (OI). I'd give you a link, but some good sites come up when you Google: "POTS +cardiac".
Posted by fires on March 1, 2005, at 18:00:29
In reply to Re: No hypomania today, posted by fires on February 28, 2005, at 20:31:05
I'm getting worried that my pdoc won't believe me:
Only one mild episode of "hyper" so far today with mild irritability.
I've discovered that eating or drinking anything causes/triggers my ringing ears -- it then gradually subsides until I eat or drink again.
This is the end of the thread.
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