![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 15 to 39 of 39. Go back in thread:
Posted by JACJ on January 6, 2005, at 22:53:57
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate thinkfast, posted by ed_uk on January 6, 2005, at 15:51:06
> Hi JACJ,
>
> It's good to 'see' you again :-)
>
> I truly believe that it is time for you to let go of the idea that the antipsychotics may have done permanent damage. Antipsychotic drugs have been used widely for many decades and yet there hasn't been a single report of TD appearing 10 months after the end of treatment. I promise... you do not need to worry about TD now. Symptoms of TD first occur either during treatment with an AP or very shortly after the drug has been discontinued. I know that it's easy for me to say but please, try not to worry yourself sick. I know you're having a lot of anxiety at the moment, probably at least partly due to benzo withdrawal. I think that you are right when you say that it's time to have a break from the forums and the research. Although forums can be a great help to many, reading so much about side effects can be very harmful to a person suffering from anxiety. I think that's it's no exaggeration to suggest that reading too much about side effects may be doing you more harm than the medications did. Reasearch can at time provoke a lot of anxiety, at the moment you give a strong impression that anxiety is your main problem. Although benzo withdrawal can be very painful, you must have faith in your body's capacity to heal itself. Try not to think about permanent damage. If the antipsychotics were going to cause you a movement disorder you'd have developed symptoms a long time ago. Caffeine can worsen anxiety for some, could you try to cut down? It might help you a great deal. Why do you eat tons of sugar?
>
> I don't think that doing any more research into side effects of psychotropic drug will help you at all, it will most likely worsen your anxiety..... and your anxiety seems to be your main problem. I know it's hard, but try to concentrate on getting better, not on psychiatric drugs. Perhaps you could go to a different therapist. Maybe you would benefit from taking vitamins supplements as well. Niacinamide (a form of vitamin B3) might help, it has been discussed on the alternative board recently- have a look. When you go on the internet in future, please don't look up drugs, research the things which might help you to recover. Sometimes it is harmful to concentrate too much on the past. Read about vitamins and nutrients if you are interested, you could even ask Larry Hoover for advice! Most of all, try not to be angry, anger is very destructive. I'm sure the doctors who prescribed you the meds wanted to help you. They just didn't do it in the way which would have been best for you. It is easy to see that in hindsight.
>
> Best Wishes,
> Ed.
(((Ed)))
So good to hear from you as always. Your post really put me in a positive mood. For the last two days, I have been reaching out for support and understanding. I haven't been doing that and boy has it made the difference. I have been thru hell and back in the last five years. In the last four months, I have moved across country, bought a new home, new job etc. Everything that could go wrong has but yet I survived. I feel sorry for my husband b/c he is just so exhausted with me. He has taken care of me for so long that we can't live the normal life. How do I get that back?I try to forget about TD but it is so hard. I think my fear and anxiety make it much worse. I am still going thru w/d? Why is it taking so long? I know so many others who still suffer after 2+ years. Would it be more likely the benzo is doing this instead of the AP? I think TD scares me b/c other meds can cause it like anithistamines and what if I take a med that has something in it that causes a side effect like it. I really worry.
Let me ask you a question. Being on these drugs and coming off them will my brain chemistry go back to what it was pre-drugs or has it changed? I wished I knew. I eat tons of sugar b/c of the self soothing factor. That also goes for caffiene too. I am substituting it for the drugs I use to take. I don't know how to re-enter my life and I am scared.
Right now, I am looking to see a functional med doctor who can get me on the right track but am afraid to trust anyone. I am still so bitter and angry. You are right, hindsight is 20/20. What other alternatives have you experienced that help besides drugs? thanks for listening.
Your pal,
JACJ
Posted by banga on January 7, 2005, at 18:13:10
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate... For Ed, posted by JACJ on January 6, 2005, at 22:53:57
I went through a program called Health Recovery in Minnesota--for help with both alcoholism and depression. They essentially believe we can right our bodies through vitamin and amino acid supplementation--reduce cravings for substances, and alleviate mental illness. In the fisrt few weeks they said I was going through "biological repair"--aside from aiming to help depression and alcoholism they were greared to repair damage from alcohol. They have a few books out --Joan Larsen is the head of that clinic and is also the author of that book.
It helped me repair; the program did not alleviate my depression, but it was probably extremely healthy to get off medications for a while and do megasupplementation to repair things.Just a thought to look it up--perhaps you could even do phone consults to decide whether/what they could recommend for you.
This is just a brief answer-since this is really alternative medicine, further discussion would be directed to th other board--but thought I'd quickly mention this to you.
I can relate to you about fear of damage (physically and emotionally). I feared I had damaged myself by using alcohol and meds at the same time. I had various cognitive problems, tingling, dimming of vision, etc. It turned out to be B vitamin depletion. It took time but supplements corrected the condition. Medications are helping me slowly on the mood and anxiety front. So again, much can be healed with time and proper treatment.
We ARE resilient both physically and psychologically.
Ok Ill stop..take a good break from it all, and rethink options when you return.
Posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2005, at 18:31:54
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate... For Ed, posted by JACJ on January 6, 2005, at 22:53:57
Hi JACJ!
>I am still going thru w/d?
Possibly. Do you have any other symptoms at the moment apart from anxiety? Why was the Ativan prescribed? How bad was your anxiety before the benzo was first prescribed? Why were the APs prescribed?
>Would it be more likely the benzo is doing this instead of the AP?
Yes, it would most likely be the benzo.
>Let me ask you a question. Being on these drugs and coming off them will my brain chemistry go back to what it was pre-drugs or has it changed?
I think it will go back to how it was before... but it will take time :-)
>Right now, I am looking to see a functional med doctor who can get me on the right track...
Why do you want to see a med doctor?
>What other alternatives have you experienced that help besides drugs?
Well, I once went to a psychologist but he said he couldn't help me! I must admit that I don't know very much about alternative medicine. You really need to ask Larry!
Regards,
Ed.
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 18:45:59
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate, posted by banga on January 7, 2005, at 18:13:10
Thanks Banga for the support. I will look into the Min. health clinic. Also, did you get tested for your what you were lacking in vitamins? I don't know what I am going to try.
Please keep in touch with me.
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 18:54:18
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate... » JACJ, posted by ed_uk on January 7, 2005, at 18:31:54
> Hi JACJ!
>
> >I am still going thru w/d?
>
> Possibly. Do you have any other symptoms at the moment apart from anxiety? Why was the Ativan prescribed? How bad was your anxiety before the benzo was first prescribed? Why were the APs prescribed?ANSWER: I prescibed ativan b/c of my anxiety. The doctor loaded drugs for every symptom. I still remember him saying we will just try everything until something works. UGH. The anger I feel. My anxiety was not really bad but they wanted to make me feel better. My anxiety while on the drugs and coming off them are 10 times worse then pre-benzo.
I was prescibed the AP's b/c of hearing voices but come to know the other drugs I was on were causing this. I only heard voices once or twice. I don't know the other reasons I was on the AP. They sadi do you want to try it and I said yes. I asked about side effects and they said there were none. Then I remember signing a paper. I didn't even question it. The drugs made me like a zombie. I feel so betrayed.
>
> >Would it be more likely the benzo is doing this instead of the AP?
>
> Yes, it would most likely be the benzo.
>
> >Let me ask you a question. Being on these drugs and coming off them will my brain chemistry go back to what it was pre-drugs or has it changed?
>
> I think it will go back to how it was before... but it will take time :-)
>
> >Right now, I am looking to see a functional med doctor who can get me on the right track...
>
> Why do you want to see a med doctor?
Answer: I want to see a doctor to check a physical and find someone I like and trust.
>
> >What other alternatives have you experienced that help besides drugs?I have found nothing that really helps and that is why I feel so lost.
>
> Well, I once went to a psychologist but he said he couldn't help me! I must admit that I don't know very much about alternative medicine. You really need to ask Larry!
>ANSWER: I will have to contact Larry. How come you quit school? Will you go back? I hope so. You are a great person for med advice.
> Regards,
> Ed.
>
Posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:54:42
In reply to Would like to know how you feel...not a debate, posted by JACJ on January 5, 2005, at 7:54:26
Hi JACJ,
Just a quick note because I've promised myself I won't spend any time on on this for a while :-)
I am on a mission of my own to have prescribing rules changed regarding specifically Wyeth's Effexor since I am one of the people that innocently stopped taking it three months ago to see if it was causing some weight gain, only to get brutally ill AND to find out that EFFEXOR was what was causing me to be sleeping my life away and in pain all day and night for the last three years and not some dread disease that no one can find. I stop taking it, and lo and behold, I'm awake, and every muscle in my body no longer aches.
Psychotropic drugs -- I've been afraid of them all of my life, since I watched what happened to a neighbor when I was a child. I can't believe that I was fooled by one with such an innocent-sounding name, Effexor. Yes, I do have neurological damage, at least now. I do feel that I lost three years of my life because I didn't know what symptoms to look out for. My world is in shambles. I've hung on by the skin of my teeth, wondering every day what the heck was wrong with me that didn't show up in bloodwork. I'd make plans day after day, never being able to keep them because in the end I was always too tired to leave my house. I feel as though I were poisoned, badly, and I'm trying to recover from it, and I'm mad as h*ll.
There's plenty of ways for people improve even their mental health, but things like SAMe and good B vitamins get to be more expensive than taking prescription drugs because of the way things work, and a daily walk or jog is too much trouble to be bothered with, though it lightens the mood as well as any stupid, potentially lethal pill ever can. And love...how about that for improving one's frame of mind when added to the other two?
Sorry, but that's how I feel...oh, sheesh, another rant. I told you, I haven't recovered yet. Really, I am sorry...a lot of good that...is this going to get me into trouble even though I left off the "e"?
Posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:57:23
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate » JACJ, posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:54:42
p.s. what is AP?
Posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:58:58
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate » JACJ, posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:54:42
I'm sorry, I mean TD. What is TD? Thanks.
I'm afraid that I'm afraid of everything at this point. :-)
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 21:21:00
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate, posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 20:58:58
I'm so sorry that you are suffering at the hands of psychotropic drugs. They are evil, IMO. I understand how upset you are but you have to let it go b/c if you don't you will end up a mess. You have to accept what has happened and move on. Believe me, it is harder than hell but you can do it. I find myself a mess alot but get support anyway you can. I am going to take a break from all the forum's and drug research b/c it is doing my mind in. I am going to Europe for a month in Feb and this will be my break. The last 4 years have been consumed with this. I feel I have learned so much about myself and feel stronger. You will get to a point where you will feel it too. Just have faith. How do you know that you are damaged? Just curious.
TD is Tardive Dyskinesia. Do a google search and you will find plenty about it. TD is a weak spot for me and I am terrfied by it so I don't like to talk about as much. Ed is an excellent person who knows alot of TD. I know so much on TD but it is one of my phobias. I get upset talking about neurological diseases.
www.tardivedyskinesia.org
Good Luck,
JACJ
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 21:36:01
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 21:21:00
Dancing Star,
My motive is not to scare you. My goal is just to inform you. If I was informed, I would have never went on the drugs because to me it wasn't worth the risk. TD is mostly caused by neuroleptics (antipsychotics, gastro meds, i.e. Reglan) But Dyskinesias have been linked to other meds as well such as antihistamines. But the risk is not big. It is very small. All drugs have side effects. I am very against psych meds but I do not condem those who are on them b/c if they work for others then that is great. I am not here to make everyone get off psych drugs but just to add what I went thru and be here for others who want off meds.Hang in there and with time it does get better.
JACJ
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 21:51:24
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate... For Ed, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 18:54:18
Hi J!
It sounds like your doctors were not very knowledgeable about side effects. IMO, many pdocs do not know much about the side effects of drugs- as a result they are often very casual about prescribing them. Remember, your pdoc was only trying to help you feel better, try not to be angry. It is never possible to predict for certain how a person will respond to a drug. If your pdoc had known how badly you would suffer s/he would not have prescribed the medication.
>I have found nothing that really helps and that is why I feel so lost.
Herbs and even vitamins can sometimes cause side effects though- so take care, I'm sure you will. You should post on the 'alternative' page and ask Larry for suggestions...
There are several supplements/vitamins/herbs that you could try for your anxiety, here is a list of some examples:
1. Niacinamide (a form of vitamin B3)
2. A vitamin B complex
3. Taurine (an amino acid)
4. L-Theanine (an amino acid)
5. St John's Wort (a herb)
6. Valerian (a herb, not in any way related to Valium- a benzo)
7. Folic acid (a vitamin)
7. Passionflower (a herb)
8. Picamilon (vitamin B3 bound to GABA)
9. Melissa (a herb)
Other things you could try...1. Get the advice of a nutritionist
2. Go to see a psychologist (eg. for CBT)
Ed xx
Posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 22:00:13
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 21:36:01
Other supplements you could try....
1. L-Tryptophan (an amino acid)
2. 5-HTP
3. SAMe
4. Ask Larry! I don't know much about alternative medicine!Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2005, at 22:12:07
In reply to Re: To JACJ, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 22:00:13
Sounds like you do to me Ed. I've written down quite a few that you mentioned to try minus the herbs. I'm not comfortable with them. You're up late! Fondly Phillipa O
Posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 22:29:54
In reply to Re: To JACJ » ed_uk, posted by Phillipa on January 8, 2005, at 22:12:07
Ed,
how do I get past the anger? One one pdoc was good as he has been a doc for a long time but brushed AP side effects off. In a course of 3 years I saw 5 pdoc's who prescibed me all different meds. Now, I must say the meds were never at high dosages, IMO.Seroquel 50 mgs.
Geodon 80 mgs
Zyprexa 5 mgsI wasn't on them all at the same time though. I am so mad at myself b/c I never did one bit of research. If I only would have known. I am still in my bitter stage. I will get over it but it will take time.
What happened with school? I don't mean to be nosey, just concerned. Take care and we will talk soon.
Hugs,
JACJ
Posted by dancingstar on January 8, 2005, at 23:40:20
In reply to Re: Would like to know how you feel...not a debate, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 21:36:01
Hi JACJ,
Thanks for the info. I'm taking almost everything that Ed mentioned in one form or another. I actually cut back on my B's recently. I was having B-vitamin overload, getting too much from too many different sources. Also, I don't do well with L-tryptophan. It's a trial and error thing. I've isolated it, and my throat closes up when I take it for three nights in a row. Tried it twice now. My body doesn't want it or need it.
Not to be forgotten that I and MILLIONS OF OTHERS ARE NOW NOT BEING PRESCRIBED PYSCHOTROPIC DRUGS BY PYSCHS. We get them from "family physicians." I spoke with someone this evening that was given Wellbutrin to quit smoking. In a week she gained 7 pounds, after recently losing 50 pounds...so she stopped taking it. Forget the smoking thing. She quit that anyway, but the drug was also making her dizzy and feeling sick. She was sharp enough to figure it out.
Someone has to stop this from happening before people start dying from this stuff. What is up with letting these companies poison us???? Who is allowing this to happen??
My current symptoms, f.y.i. are that I am no longer in the bathroom a-l-l day long, but my stomach hasn't completely healed, either.
My neck and upper back and shoulders feel as though the nerves are fried and sore, especially my neck.
I get anxiety in crowds...never, ever, ever happened to this semi-professional actress before.
Don't like to be around people.Overwhelm very easily, can't judge time, panic, and even though I am not the least bit unhappy -- truly -- I get sad suddenly for no reason. It flips me out cause I am not like this and never have been.
Oh, and I'm getting those electric shock things...badly, but whenever they feel like coming.Every one of the old withdrawal sypmtoms come and go at will, without warning, whenever they feel like it. I can be standing in line at the grocery store and bam, I'm sick to my stomach all over again. The whole thing sucks eggs.
I have every intention of doing what I can to hold Wyeth responsible for not letting me and the other 21 or so people in my group know what we were getting into so that we can move forward from here.I lost three years and I am not myself now I haven't been able to work...lost my private disability cause I looked like a flake and no one believed that I was sick. I deserved to know what I was doing so that I could have made an informed decision to not take Effexor. I asked my doctor at the time at least twice if there were any side effects. Also, I have a huge history of drug allergies...but I just didn't recognize this. Shame on them. Shame on me. Shame on the whole situation.
Hope you feel better, too............bye......now..:-)
Posted by ed_uk on January 9, 2005, at 12:27:47
In reply to Re: To JACJ For ED, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 22:29:54
Hello J,
>how do I get past the anger?
Are you mainly angry at the pdocs? You said that you're angry with yourself. Why did you see so many different pdocs? What effect did the Ativan have on your anxiety?
I have left uni because I have't kept up with the work this year. I have been finding it difficult to concentrate and the course is very boring. I hope to go back in September though, there is nothing else that I can do.
Ed xx
Posted by banga on January 9, 2005, at 20:21:02
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate for Banga, posted by JACJ on January 8, 2005, at 18:45:59
IN terms of vitamins, they did not test me specifically for deficiencies at the clinic. Vitamin B12 deficiency specifically can be tested by your doctor--although supposedly neurological symptoms can develop before blood levels of B12 become low. The clinic does however test for various other things, such as thyroid and mineral levels and heavy metal toxicity.
You could always supplement with a very good multivitamin from a health food store (not Walgreens brands, they have little value).
You may want to check out the alternative board here if you haven't already.
I currently do emphasise my medication regimen as the primary source of help. But I support it with a vitamin and amino acid regimen. My belief is that part of the harm of the medications lies in them and their by-products building up on the cellular level--a nutritional regimen can helpo the body clear itself of these "contaminants."
Medications can do a lot of good, but they certainly can have their negative effects on the body. But I believe we can do other things to lessen the negatives.
Take care.
Posted by JACJ on January 9, 2005, at 21:13:20
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..JACJ, posted by banga on January 9, 2005, at 20:21:02
Hi Banga and Ed,
banga,
Thanks for all the great info. I am now in the midst of looking for a Functional med doctor. One I can trust. This is none of my business but how do you do being a psychologist? I mean, does working with problems all the time have a negative effect on you? How long have you been doing that kind of work?Ed,
Ativan helped me first but then I grew a tolerance to it very quickly. When I flew, I would take 8-10 mgs of ativan to take the ease off of me. It would help but anxiety would still creep its' ugly head at me. I am mad at the healthcare personnel which includes therapists, pdocs, nurses, etc. for a number of reasons. I really hope that I can get past this. I hope you go back to school. You would be a great chemist. Why do you find it boring? Maybe you need to pick another closely related major. Just a thought. Take care and will talk soon.Hugs,
JACJ
Posted by banga on January 10, 2005, at 13:15:31
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..For banga and ed, posted by JACJ on January 9, 2005, at 21:13:20
RIght now, I am not currently doing any kind of therapy work, it would be unethical given that I am in a bad place right now. I could not guarantee that I would not be projecting my own problems, and also I would have trouble being convincing in encouraging them (if I feel my own life is useless, I doubt Id be convincing someone else to think otherwise.)
When I did do therapy work, I did fairly well. I di dnot necessarily get "down" listening to other people's stories. You learn to develop a strange boundary--you feel and you are empathetic and genuinely devoted to help, but you don't let it get to you. For me, the struggle was more the responsibility--this person has come to me for help, am I able to do it? I would lose sight that really most of the work is done by the client.
Psychologists work in many environments and capacities. Therapy is only one. I will probably choose a different area to work in than therapy work--in truth it was never my goal anyways.
Posted by JACJ on January 10, 2005, at 14:44:16
In reply to Re: Would like to know .. » JACJ, posted by banga on January 10, 2005, at 13:15:31
Hi Banga,
Thanks for sharing. I hope I didn't pry but I was just curious. I hope to be around a bit more before I leave for Europe. You are very positive and I appreciate that so much.Thanks,
JACJ
Posted by banga on January 10, 2005, at 16:18:22
In reply to Re: Would like to know .. For Banga, posted by JACJ on January 10, 2005, at 14:44:16
Glad if I could be of help.
Good luck.
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 17:33:25
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..For banga and ed, posted by JACJ on January 9, 2005, at 21:13:20
Hi J,
>I hope you go back to school. You would be a great chemist.
Thank you :-)
>Why do you find it boring?
The course is very dull. Only a small proportion of what we study has any relevence to working as a pharmacist- what they teach us just isn't going to be that useful.
Where are you going in Europe?
Take care,
Ed.
Posted by JACJ on January 10, 2005, at 18:09:08
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..For JACJ, posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 17:33:25
Hi Ed,
I find the coursework mundane sometimes too. I am going to Scotland/Ireland for 3 weeks. Can't wait to get on a plane and get the hell out of the US for a while.TTYL,
JACJ
Posted by ed_uk on January 10, 2005, at 18:14:53
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..For Ed, posted by JACJ on January 10, 2005, at 18:09:08
Hi,
Enjoy your holiday!
Ed :-)
Posted by corafree on January 10, 2005, at 19:53:12
In reply to Re: Would like to know ..not a debate... For JACJ, posted by ed_uk on January 8, 2005, at 21:51:24
Hi-Health sells chewable orange-flavor Ultra Plan Ultimate Calcium Citrate 2000 - I kept a handful in my pocket when going through a court issue and they really calmed me. I keep them by my bedside and chew (not bad) a few w/ ANXIETY/panic attacks, and try use by DBT skills. The breathing is next to impossible. see ya' round the bob post, cf
This is the end of the thread.
Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
Copyright 2006-17 Robert Hsiung.
Owned and operated by Dr. Bob LLC and not the University of Chicago.