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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Barbaracat on November 11, 2004, at 22:51:56
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:06:48
The Li orotate researchers say that the orotate form gets past the blood brain barrier and is transported more efficiently than the carbonate and 120mg should equal around 400mg of carbonate's effectiveness without the lithium side effects (because it's so much less to excrete). I took 2 tabs a day hoping this was so, but it surely wasn't and I went hypo mighty quickly. So now I take 3 tabs twice a day which is a little more than the 600mg of carbonate I was taking. BTW, don't believe the Serenity hype that theirs is the only worthwhile brand. They're 3 times the cost and use the same formulation as the Advanced Research brand (developed by Hans Nieper, the 'father' of the orotic transport system. That's orotic, not... oh well never mind).
The question is if their theory is correct and the orotate form is more efficient, then how does it compare in side effects, etc? Am I getting a whopping dose or what? So far, no sx whatsoever. I stopped taking lithium blood tests because my dose was always way below the therapeutic window (any more than 600mg gave me the drooling shakes).
Your pdoc isn't alone in his alternative meds bias. My pdoc admitted that he just didn't have time to keep up with all the standard pharm drugs interactions much less with herbal 'unprovens'. I was always a little puzzled by him because he was otherwise very cool, a Birkenstock and tofu kind of guy. We shared political issues and had a very good connection, but about the only 'alternative' thing we agreed on was fish oil. I think it's because he's in the HMO system and who knows what hair-shirts they have to wear to keep their jobs.
I switched on my accept email. I'll send you one and you send me one to see how it works, OK? Here goes - Barbara
.> Hi,
> interestingly enough, I was doing research to see if migraines were a s/e of Trileptal and found out that people actually take mood stabilizers for migraines! I also somehow got directed to serenity website about li. ort. (LO) and did a search on some postings here...we did talk about this awhile back and there was a post of yours that talked about how it didn't work for you last time you ran out of Li.Carb. But anyway, the other posts I read about raved about it. (hoping it works for you now). You mention that it recommends 120mg a day? Everyone else on that other thread takes between 4-6 120mg spread out in one day. That's a total of 480-720mg. But the amt. of Lithium you get isn't 100% it's like a small percentage Li. This is the link:
>
> http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/alter/20030903/msgs/264515.html
>
> Ummm..maybe a light box, SJW, and LO could do it for me. And I don't need my pdoc really; he doesn't work with alternatives like SJW or LO last time I checked.
> Do you have to get your blood drawn/checked?
> Katia
Posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 23:17:23
In reply to Re: Needing supportKatia, posted by Laree on November 11, 2004, at 21:14:48
Hi,
I am surprised Prozac didn't work for you b/c that's an SSRI too.I am bipolar so it's harder for me to pop ADs. I'm only on a small amt. of Paxil. I have tried all the ones you mentioned pre-BP dx before we realized I was BP. Lexapro I haven't tried however. I'm sick of all this trial and error stuff anyway, Celexa was awful for me (lexapro being the advanced version of Celexa). Did nothing for my depression and made me worse off even. I might give Li. Orotate a go.
thanks for your support.
Katia
Posted by Barbaracat on November 12, 2004, at 3:14:01
In reply to Re: Maybe some help? » Barbaracat, posted by katia on November 11, 2004, at 18:18:19
> I mentioned Merlin because I felt he wanted to go and you chose right, but it's the desire of life to hang on regardless.
**Oh, yes, I know and wasn't really responding about anything specific, just appreciated a chance to talk about him some more to someone I know understands. I was just thinking about him the other day and the whole bit about 'death with dignity' - how hard it is to see a loved one (or ourselves) suffer when hanging on is just too difficult for everyone concerned. I hope I'm allowed to make that choice if ever I need to. But you just never know - the whole bit about karma, the bardo and all, and if all that messy suffering and agony to others isn't necessary for whatever stoic reason. I sure hope not. But however it happens, it sure puts you through poweful changes like nothing else.
You're right, though. Life does have that desire to hang on. It doesn't know anything else, I imagine.
How are you doing these days since losing Rock? You said you were planning on writing a book about Pit Bulls. Still in the works?
Posted by TaoSuki on November 13, 2004, at 1:10:30
In reply to rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by Lollie on September 26, 2002, at 1:42:23
It is called "Noisy Brain". You can research it on google but the most advanced knowledge of this is research done on Fragile-X Syndrome. It seems that our brains have too many synapses firing, creating white noise. My brain goes in a million directions at once. I find that meditation (hard at first) does help. As well I find it easier to sleep when I give my brain something to concentrate on, such as an action movie. Sounds weird but it works.
<<<I have been experiencing for as long as I can remember cycling that does not fit with the parameters of bi-polar or cyclothymia. The cycles run every few days normally, but can run minutes or hours. Combined with this I experience mind noise, which can best be described as a very busy train station that runs 24/7. I talked to my psych about it and she had not heard of either of these syptoms, so I stopped seeing her and started my own research. Mind noise is experienced by hundreds of people, some of the more famous include Lord Byron, Emily Dickenson and Kurt Cobain. All known drug addicts. Does any of this sound familiar to you, I am looking for help other than drinking to much, the only thing to give quiet to my mind. Any suggestions other than alcohol or hard drugs? how do you deal with this? I would be interested in your story. The mind noise I experience sometimes is so loud, I can't hear myself speak, its chronic. Does this sound familiar? let me know is this rings true to you and your experiences, please!>>>
Posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 14:32:11
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by TaoSuki on November 13, 2004, at 1:10:30
I have experienced this.
I could not do anything because there would always be music, a rhthm, fine verbal chatter (like random words/ ideas just going over like a broken reccord)
Anyhow, lithium, depakote, and fish oil takes care of it pretty much.
Linkadge
Posted by olysi79 on December 15, 2004, at 11:22:17
In reply to Re: rapid cycling and mind noise, posted by linkadge on November 14, 2004, at 14:32:11
I have this too, what an awful feeling Linkadge... truly terrible.
> I have experienced this.
>
> I could not do anything because there would always be music, a rhthm, fine verbal chatter (like random words/ ideas just going over like a broken reccord)
>
> Anyhow, lithium, depakote, and fish oil takes care of it pretty much.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
Posted by Paintmom on December 22, 2004, at 11:48:38
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Carter, posted by Mitch on December 17, 2001, at 9:54:47
HI
So glad to have found this page...Was diagnosed for the past ten years with chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, SAD,acute insomnia, apnea, yadda yadda yadda.....Low and behold...last week...my therapist...who I really trust...said she thought I might be mildly biopolar...Well..I was depressed already...this threw me into a three day hysteria on my couch with my poodle. (not that bad...I have a ten year old..and I have to try to act "normal" in front of him:)
So once the shock wore off...I am actually sort of embracing the concept...it explains so much...like why I have felt like I was dropped from another planet!
Anyway...I am on lexapro...and was on elavil for sleep which was making me gain weight...so now they are trying to add topamax for the moods and ditch the elavil. Mitch...I have the ADD symptoms too...they seem to have gotten worse in the past two years...actually since I went on the lexapro...the doc thinks the lexapro might be throwing me into a mania...(which is kinda fun sometimes...its just the post crash that sucks).
Anyway...the topamax, they were hoping would be sedative at nite for me...but it has the opposite effect!! Also it is supposed to be a appetite suppresent...but it makes me hungry!!! I am only taking 25 mg.
Would love to hear everyone's thoughts and am so glad I found this board.
I ordered the Cyclothemia workbook from Amazon...I'll tell you how it is
Happy Holidays
Paitnmom
Posted by barbaracat on December 22, 2004, at 17:42:39
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Mitch, posted by Paintmom on December 22, 2004, at 11:48:38
Hi PaintMom,
Welcome to the wild and sometimes wonderful world of bipolars. Believe me, after the shock wears off you will be glad to have some of your more bizarre symptoms explained - plus you're in great company. So many of the artistically very gifted were and are bipolar. I'm not sure the heights compensate for the sh*tty lows, but they help.My life has improved so much since I started lithium 2 years ago. Although I still have depressions, they are nowhere near the nightmarish terrors I was getting more and more frequently as I got older, made more and more worse with SSRIs. I'm lucky because I took to lithium right away and do not need the 'therapeutic window' high doses that some pdocs look for in blood tests.
Lexapro could indeed be creating some disorganization simply because it's an SSRI and SSRIs are very destabilizing without a counterbalancing mood stabilizer. When I'm on a manic edge I look like classic ADD - can't pull my thoughts together and put car keys in the fridge and stuff like that.
About topamax - who the heck told you it was a sedating med? It's the most activating of all the mood stabilizers and was way too activating for me - made me feel irritable, anxious and not much better than the bipolar symptoms. I also did not lost weight either. With topamax and lexapro, you're on two rather activating meds for a bipolar. They may be the perfect ones for you, who knows, but be on the lookout if you're results are less than satisfying. Not perfect perhaps, but they should be satisfying.
I truly do believe that the only way you can expect to be successful with the weight thing is to get yourself to a point where you're not too depressed to exercise and then literally FORCE yourself to get out and work out. If you can force yourself to do it every day for 2 weeks, it becomes like a habit you look forward to, but maybe you already know this with a little one at home.
Even if you do find a med that dampens your appetite, it's not enough to simply eat less. I believe that mood disorders with their various chemical soups affect our metabolism in strange ways and the weight gain has little to do with actual food intake, but everything to do with managing metabolism. Some meds will definitely put on weight - again a metabolism thing, not amount of food eaten - and some may lessen your appetite just a bit, but there is no getting around the fact that if you want to not start to get steadily more and more porky, you must work out. Them's the facts. Plus, exercise is the world's best AD, just the most annoying to commit to. Anyhow, welcome to our exotic little club. - Barbara
> HI
> So glad to have found this page...Was diagnosed for the past ten years with chronic fatigue, depression, anxiety, SAD,acute insomnia, apnea, yadda yadda yadda.....Low and behold...last week...my therapist...who I really trust...said she thought I might be mildly biopolar...Well..I was depressed already...this threw me into a three day hysteria on my couch with my poodle. (not that bad...I have a ten year old..and I have to try to act "normal" in front of him:)
> So once the shock wore off...I am actually sort of embracing the concept...it explains so much...like why I have felt like I was dropped from another planet!
> Anyway...I am on lexapro...and was on elavil for sleep which was making me gain weight...so now they are trying to add topamax for the moods and ditch the elavil. Mitch...I have the ADD symptoms too...they seem to have gotten worse in the past two years...actually since I went on the lexapro...the doc thinks the lexapro might be throwing me into a mania...(which is kinda fun sometimes...its just the post crash that sucks).
> Anyway...the topamax, they were hoping would be sedative at nite for me...but it has the opposite effect!! Also it is supposed to be a appetite suppresent...but it makes me hungry!!! I am only taking 25 mg.
> Would love to hear everyone's thoughts and am so glad I found this board.
> I ordered the Cyclothemia workbook from Amazon...I'll tell you how it is
> Happy Holidays
> Paitnmom
Posted by Paintmom on December 22, 2004, at 19:41:36
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems » Paintmom, posted by barbaracat on December 22, 2004, at 17:42:39
thanks for the welcome Barbara!
I am taking the topamax earlier....and seeing how that goes....
I do usually exercise..I walk 2+ miles 4 times a week and go to the gym for strength training three times a week...unfortunately when I get in a funk...I cut back..whcih is the worst time to do that....
I also usually use the light box....cause I has SAD....but since I got separated out of a very bad marraige in march...I've been on a high!!! and haven't seemed to need it:)Anyway...look forward to learning and getting to know all of you
all my best
PaintmomPS
I have been to a lot of boards for different things thru the years....I really like this one!
Posted by katia on December 27, 2004, at 14:54:07
In reply to Re: Cyclothymia mood stabilizers-Zyprexa problems, posted by Paintmom on December 22, 2004, at 19:41:36
HI Paintmom (and Barbara)
When you did use your light box, how did you use it? When, how long, what time of the year? And did you find it helped you break out of a depression better or equal to meds? Also, did you experience nauseaous with it? I have with mine and have had to quit and restart with five min. increments.
Thanks-
Katia> thanks for the welcome Barbara!
>
> I am taking the topamax earlier....and seeing how that goes....
>
> I do usually exercise..I walk 2+ miles 4 times a week and go to the gym for strength training three times a week...unfortunately when I get in a funk...I cut back..whcih is the worst time to do that....
> I also usually use the light box....cause I has SAD....but since I got separated out of a very bad marraige in march...I've been on a high!!! and haven't seemed to need it:)
>
> Anyway...look forward to learning and getting to know all of you
>
> all my best
> Paintmom
>
> PS
> I have been to a lot of boards for different things thru the years....I really like this one!
Posted by Paintmom on December 27, 2004, at 15:10:22
In reply to Light box » Paintmom, posted by katia on December 27, 2004, at 14:54:07
HI
I used the light box first thing in the morning for 30 minutes...I never got nauseuos...I had to use it in addition to meds...but it worked great...
a different year I used it liked at five for 30 minutes...and that seemed to help with the sleeping better...
The sun always seems to make me feel better....I try to be in the light as much as possible...it works for me...but I quess everyone has to find their own rythym. Different things work for different people.
One thing that has worked for me...that I would swear is this tape that I got at thinkrightnow
It's called stop depression now and it just has simplmepositive affirmations on it...It was rather expensive...so I thought it was a hoax and then I noticed when I listened to it for several days and then stopped....I noticed I felt beter when I listen to it. I was very skeptical ...but this happened over and over again. I also find taking b complex makes a noticecable imrpovement...such simple things...why don't I do them religiously.
Anyway
Happy Holidays to all
Paintmom
Posted by katia on December 27, 2004, at 15:32:57
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by Paintmom on December 27, 2004, at 15:10:22
Hi,
Yes, such simple things, but why don't we do it? I know that one. For me, it just gets exhausting to have such a high maintenance vigilant life. Like flying to Miami for four days for family get together. I'm wiped out now because I didn't get enough down time, nor was I able to bring my light box and different time zones make me unbalanced....Things seem simple to do but it's definitely a regulated life style, which makes spontaneity hard to do.When you used your light box (LB) for five min. in the p.m., was this in addition to use in the morning? Did it give you that extra lift? Where do you live?
Katia
Posted by Paintmom on December 27, 2004, at 15:46:21
In reply to Re: Light box » Paintmom, posted by katia on December 27, 2004, at 15:32:57
I think when I used the light box I did it in addition some times ...like 15 min in the am and 15 min in the pm
if you are on certain meds ...you can be photosensative...so ask your doctor
I live in NY
Posted by amberlicious on December 27, 2004, at 19:18:48
In reply to BIPOLAR QUESTION?, posted by cleo on July 14, 2003, at 21:31:29
Posted by Taosuki on December 28, 2004, at 2:02:31
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by Paintmom on December 27, 2004, at 15:46:21
I am really interested in this lightbox thing - I've heard of it and it makes sense to me. I read somewhere that if you surround yourself with ample light first thing in the morning (it had to be within 30 minutes of waking) it helps you to wake up and keep energy throughout the day.
I have experimented at home and it seems that when I do this it really works. I've noticed a difference between the days that I go into the bathroom in the morning and turn on every light source possible, just flooding the room with light while I'm doing the regular morning stuff in there compared to the days that I just brush my teeth in the weak morning light of the window and shuffle around the house without turning the lights on or opening the blinds.
I've never seen a lightbox - what do they look like, where can I find one and how much do they cost and by any chance would insurance cover it?
Posted by Paintmom on December 28, 2004, at 9:59:58
In reply to Re: Light box » Paintmom, posted by Taosuki on December 28, 2004, at 2:02:31
HI
The light box is a great thing. They are special because unlike regular lights ...they give you full spectrum light like the sun...without the harmful rays. I have heard that they have them at costco sometimes...I got mine on line and it was like 100 bucks 4 years ago...I think they are cheaper now...you can look at places like toolsforwellness.com and see if they have any. Research it a little because some are better than others. You can also buy the full spectrum bulbs for around your house...I think even at the HOme Depot. My insurance didn't cover it...but sometimes they might. You have to have a doctor say you need it. There is a Seasonal Affective Disorder association and they have information on light therapy....Columbia Presb hospital was doing studies on it as well...so it is pretty main stream now.
good luck
Paintmom
Posted by katia on December 28, 2004, at 12:12:27
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by Paintmom on December 28, 2004, at 9:59:58
I got mine from Apollolight.com It's the Apollo IV. I got it from the recommendation of my pdoc. It is supposed to be the best in quality. And quality is really what you're after. No use spending money on a cheaper one if it doesn't do half of what this one does. It's up to you to do the research though because this one was $300. You can get it on line. I've heard that the full spectrum lights on lamps don't really work that great. It's only effective with the amount of light and the distance you are from it (like 18 inches). it's a pretty exact science. So even if the light box is on and you move three feet away, the effectiveness drops dramatically.
My philosophy is just buy the best and you won't have to spend time and more money buying box after box that doesn't work or only works half as well. i'm sure there are others out there, but this is one that works for me.
Katia
Posted by Dave001 on December 29, 2004, at 19:49:28
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by katia on December 28, 2004, at 12:12:27
> ...
> You can get it on line. I've heard that the full spectrum lights on lamps don't really work that great. It's only effective with the amount of light and the distance you are from it (like 18 inches). it's a pretty exact science. So even if the light box is on and you move three feet away, the effectiveness drops dramatically.Katia is correct. According to the research, it is the intensity (usually expressed in LUX) of the light that is the important factor. It is not necessary for the light to be "full spectrum." All of the medical grade light boxes use a bright white color temperature, so far as I'm aware.
Posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:14:07
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by Dave001 on December 29, 2004, at 19:49:28
However, I've heard full spectrum is the best - just what I've heard.
Boy, my light box must be a very strong one...I've had to restart it with 5 min. increments due to the nausea and I'm up to a measly 10 min. and the nausea has come back some what!
Maybe 8 min for me a day! But at least I'm not that depressed. It did pull me up some.
Katia
Posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:17:12
In reply to Re: Light box, posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:14:07
Katia,
I'm glad to hear that the lightbox has been providing you with some relief. That is good news!
Tamara
> However, I've heard full spectrum is the best - just what I've heard.
>
> Boy, my light box must be a very strong one...I've had to restart it with 5 min. increments due to the nausea and I'm up to a measly 10 min. and the nausea has come back some what!
> Maybe 8 min for me a day! But at least I'm not that depressed. It did pull me up some.
> Katia
Posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:28:43
In reply to Re: Light box » katia, posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:17:12
Hi, I remember you!
yes, it seemed to snap me out of it. I still feel tired some and slightly down, but much better than when the time changed.
I can't remember, do you use one?
Katia> Katia,
>
> I'm glad to hear that the lightbox has been providing you with some relief. That is good news!
>
> Tamara
>
> > However, I've heard full spectrum is the best - just what I've heard.
> >
> > Boy, my light box must be a very strong one...I've had to restart it with 5 min. increments due to the nausea and I'm up to a measly 10 min. and the nausea has come back some what!
> > Maybe 8 min for me a day! But at least I'm not that depressed. It did pull me up some.
> > Katia
>
>
Posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:43:30
In reply to Re: Light box » jujube, posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:28:43
Hi!
Yes, I have been using a light box for a number of months now. I find it makes a difference, especially sinse the days have gotten much shorter. I didn't use it Christmas Day and Boxing Day, and I noticed a difference in my mood and energy levels.
Hope you can get past the nausea and start to get even more benefits from the light box.
Take care.
Tamara
> Hi, I remember you!
> yes, it seemed to snap me out of it. I still feel tired some and slightly down, but much better than when the time changed.
> I can't remember, do you use one?
> Katia
>
> > Katia,
> >
> > I'm glad to hear that the lightbox has been providing you with some relief. That is good news!
> >
> > Tamara
> >
> > > However, I've heard full spectrum is the best - just what I've heard.
> > >
> > > Boy, my light box must be a very strong one...I've had to restart it with 5 min. increments due to the nausea and I'm up to a measly 10 min. and the nausea has come back some what!
> > > Maybe 8 min for me a day! But at least I'm not that depressed. It did pull me up some.
> > > Katia
> >
> >
>
>
Posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:51:25
In reply to Re: Light box » katia, posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:43:30
I see you're probably British? Boxing day....
Did you have problems with the nausea?
Katia
Posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:59:05
In reply to Re: Light box » jujube, posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 21:51:25
Canadian actually.
I didn't have problems with nausea when I started using the light box. I did experience some eye sensitivities and a mild headache, but both of those were short-lived.
Perhaps you could try taking some ginger capsules or drinking some ginger tea to relieve the nausea so as to allow you to increase your use of the light box and provide further benefits. Ginger is an excellent anti-nauseant. I believe there have even been studies done on its effectiveness.
Tamara
> I see you're probably British? Boxing day....
>
> Did you have problems with the nausea?
> Katia
Posted by katia on December 29, 2004, at 22:04:12
In reply to Re: Light box » katia, posted by jujube on December 29, 2004, at 21:59:05
Of course....Canadian. Lucky you. I wish I'd been born there rather than here in the U.S....
I do know about ginger and went to my Chinese herbalist. He gave me loads of herbs and ginger was included to make a tea. It's not working in regards to the light box and nausea...b/c I had to stop the box when I went to Miami for five days and the nausea subsided AND I was drinking the tea. Now I'm still drinking the tea and using the box and it's coming back. Maybe I"ll try tablets in addition to.
What part of Canada? How old are you? I'm 34.
Katia> Canadian actually.
>
> I didn't have problems with nausea when I started using the light box. I did experience some eye sensitivities and a mild headache, but both of those were short-lived.
>
> Perhaps you could try taking some ginger capsules or drinking some ginger tea to relieve the nausea so as to allow you to increase your use of the light box and provide further benefits. Ginger is an excellent anti-nauseant. I believe there have even been studies done on its effectiveness.
>
> Tamara
>
> > I see you're probably British? Boxing day....
> >
> > Did you have problems with the nausea?
> > Katia
>
>
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Psycho-Babble Medication | Extras | FAQ
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]
Script revised: February 4, 2008
URL: http://www.dr-bob.org/cgi-bin/pb/mget.pl
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