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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2004, at 19:47:40
In reply to Re: Citalopram, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 19:30:05
I'm sorry. Do you get out and do things or just stay in? Does the Xanax help if you do go out? Phillipa
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2004, at 19:55:19
In reply to Re: buzzing brain, posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 19:14:46
Crazychick; What are you doing to stay calm? Are you at home with your daughter? Are you going to take any meds if the pdoc says you should? Maybe something else for anxiety. I don't know what else you can get rx'd for you in the Uk. Phillipa
Posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 19:57:34
In reply to Re: buzzing brain, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2004, at 19:55:19
Im doing cbt
goto mind
and see a therapistNO NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO MORE MEDS uh noooooo no no no no wayyy
i sniff lavander and just try to stay posiitve as poss..
no my mum has my daughter im gonna ask her to adopt her before her father gets news of my illness
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:14:18
In reply to Re: buzzing brain, posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 19:57:34
Hi Donna!!
Try neroli oil, I like it much better than lavender. It's also more expensive though :-(
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:20:59
In reply to Re: Citalopram, posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 19:30:05
So... is Linkadge my new adopted brother yet?
Ed.
Posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 20:24:30
In reply to To Phillipa!, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:20:59
whats neroli oil? wil that get rid of my severe dalibitating anxiety? what about brain zaps? weakness in the head? i mean when im concentrating on something, when i look at certain things its like im having some kind of a seizure...
never expienced this ever in my life.. all my severe probs started when i stopepd remeron 5 mnths ago then i tryed effexor for 4 days a mnth ago and its gettign worse daily.. paranoia is starting now and neg thoughts galore cant handle this.. dont want more me ds cus they r ALL making me worse ... im not making this happen its just happening ... im so weak mentallly and physically ..dO u know of spect scans in the uk? i know theres some serious damage in my brain caused by meds..
cherrs
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:40:38
In reply to Re: To ED !!, posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 20:24:30
> whats neroli oil? wil that get rid of my severe dalibitating anxiety? what about brain zaps? weakness in the head? i mean when im concentrating on something, when i look at certain things its like im having some kind of a seizure...
Hello!
Neroli oil is the fragrant essential oil which comes from the blossoms of the Seville orange tree. It is named after an Italian Princess called Neroli.
Neroli oil smells very nice and so it's widely used in perfumery and aromatherapy. In aromatherapy, Neroli is used to treat depression and anxiety because it is both calming and uplifting. If you like the smell you would probably find it relaxing- you can put a few drops in the bath. It is more expensive than lavender oil, you can buy it from Holland and Barrett. Be sure to find out whether you like the smell before you buy any!
> dO u know of spect scans in the uk? i know theres some serious damage in my brain caused by meds..
I am not sure which hospitals do SPECT scans.
Ed.
Posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2004, at 21:09:45
In reply to Re: To Donna !! » crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:40:38
I Babbled You. Fondly Phillipa O
Posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 22:02:37
In reply to Re: To Ed, posted by Phillipa on December 26, 2004, at 21:09:45
Does anyone nderstand this..
feels like i am having partial seizures feels like im gonna have a fit any time ... i go to docs they say its anxiety wtf they dont know whats going on the phyiscal symptoms o my god come ot of no where. i constantly fee my head jumping, im jolting, my brain tingles ... grrrrrrrrr anyone else?
Posted by Stryker88 on December 27, 2004, at 3:22:43
In reply to Re: To Donna !! » crazychickuk, posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 20:40:38
What an outrage!!!!!
Posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 6:29:54
In reply to Re: This Is an Outrage Wyeth/Eli Lilly are Liars!!, posted by Stryker88 on December 27, 2004, at 3:22:43
not forgetting organon ..
If it wernt for most of these drugs i think half os us would be fine .. :-S
Posted by bamboomz on December 27, 2004, at 10:08:30
In reply to Re: buzzing brain, posted by crazychickuk on December 26, 2004, at 22:02:37
Hi guys,
I have been on Celexa for 2 weeks now. It is my first time trying an anti-depressant and since day one, it has been making me feel really weird. After reading all of your posts, I am starting to feel like maybe I should'ent be taking this stuff. Brain buzzez? Seizures?!? How can a drug company put something on the market that affects people's brains in such scary negative ways?
This drug is making me feel weird. If I stare at something too long...I feel like it is looking back at me. If I look really close at my pupils, they look like they are pulsing or I guess you could say buzzing. I feel sick and spinny for usually 3 hours after taking the drug. Somedays, I feel like I am underwater and everything seems ominous and strange to me.I was put on 20mg of celexa because I have been having problems with postpartum depression due to my hormones being all over the place. I guess I do not feel depressed as much but it has been replaced with paranoia, manic episodes (can't get off the floor one day, feeling inspired by all smiley cartoon characters on t.v. the next), and zombie like,"ho-hum I just want to lay on the couch all day" feelings.
Does it continue like this or will I start to feel balanced and happy soon? Is this stuff gonna mess with my brain to the point of changing who I am? When I go off of it, will I be o.k.? I don't want to experience seizures, I hate anxiety and I would rather be horribly depressed then go through anxiety episodes. I guess I am starting to feel worried about the state of my brain and I don't feel entirely comfortable with entrusting the doctors and drug companies to help me.
Posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 10:11:44
In reply to Re: buzzing brain, posted by bamboomz on December 27, 2004, at 10:08:30
Hormones u say? bloody hell have you tryed the pill? do you see a gyni for this? i have probs with my hormones too i should be taking metformin for pcos and the pill for some female hormones cus i got to much testosterone ..
How long u been takin celexa for? Try and come of it if you can its obviousley not for you ..
have you tryed viatamin b supplements?
Posted by chemist on December 27, 2004, at 10:31:04
In reply to Re: This Is an Outrage Wyeth/Eli Lilly are Liars!!, posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 6:29:54
hello there, chemist here...i find this thread particularly fascinating: there are calls for instigation of legal action against eli lilly, wyeth, and organon - i suspect from the citalopram business that forest ought to be included as well - yet not one implicates action/inaction on the part of the patient. most of us who are capable of navigating the waters of the internet and operating a computer ought to be savvy enough to read the labels on the package in which medication is dispensed. the physician - however rotten they might be - most likely continues to prescribe medication for a patient after discussing the matter with the patient. regardless, patient + physician does not = marriage for life. nor does it include a binding clause to continue to take the medication if it is not working.
tobacco companies in the u.s. have not been model corporate citizens since their inception, but the warning label on the cigarette carton - and the links to emphysema, lung (and other) cancers, and heart disease - states clearly that the product is not good for enhancing one's health.
producers of alcohol-containing beverages do include - by law, i suspect, but no matter - warnings stating that one should monitor their intake of alcohol, do not drive an auto while intoxicated, and that using alcohol while pregnant, for instance, is not a wise choice (to put it mildly).
of course, the liquor store proprietor and convenience store clerk do not require the purchaser to hold a prescription: rather, proof of age (usually) is sufficient. thus, the patron is one's own prescribing physician for cigarettes and alcohol. the clerks do not send their customers from the premises with stern directives regarding addictive potential, withdrawl, adverse effects, and so on.
why should a pharmaceutical company be held liable for a physician and patient agreement? i do qualify this statement not to be inclusive of falsified data, failure in post-marketing, and so forth. i particularly wonder why so many miserable people taking effexor, for example, continue to do so: is the misery offset by something i am not aware? is it a cure for baldness, a fertility-enhancer, an anti-cancer drug? do tell!
here i am at home, surrounded by medical texts and references, but that is not of import: using google and a few search words (celexa and forest and home), i lucked out and am downloading the PDF-format prescribing information from Forest Laboratories, Inc., for Celexa. this is the same information in my PDR, and you can save the $58US by grabbing the information for free (from other manufacturers as well).
all of the answers in re: celexa are contained in this 16-page document just hot off the printer. it is stated that people suffering from major depression - whether taking an AD or not - may exhibit worsening of symptoms and must be monitored. things like anxiety, agitation, panic attacks, insomnia, irritability, hostility, psychomotor restlessness, and hypomania are cause (this is from the manufacturer, as are all data) to "consider changing the therapeutic regimen, including possibly discontinuing the medication in patients for whom such symptoms are severe, aprupt in onset, or were not part of the patient's presenting symptoms."
Forest states that Celexa is not approved for treating bipolar disorder. Forst states that Celexa is not to be used in pediatric populations. then, under big-font, bold letters, is the section on precautions for discontinuing Celexa. "During marketing of Celexa and other SSRIs and SNRIs, there have been spontaneous reports of adverse events occurring upon discontinuation of these drugs, particularly when abrupt, including the following: dysphoric mood, irritability, agitation, dizziness, sensory disturbances (e.g., paresthesias such as electric shock sensations), anxiety, confusion, headache, lethargy, emotional lability, insomnia, and hypomania."
i needn't repeat the almost-identical information for effexor, remeron, and (i assume) cymbalta/prozac/symbyax: it's all there, and always has been. those "brain zaps" that seemingly baffle thousands of SSRI/SNRI users are well-known and advertised - for free - as one of many awful side-effects by the very companies that market the drugs.
in addition to mattw84's excellent suggestions, might i offer some of my own observations/suggestions? why not...it's been such a long time...
(1) if you have a temporal lobe problem, i'd suspect hearing/smell oddities: motor coordination impulse/sensory control (in general) might best be found looking toward the cerebrum (frontal? substantia nigra in midbrain?) and for the eye problems - the nystagmus variations don't ring true, although what do i know - cranial nerves (say, 3, 4, and 6); and the wiring further down the way and to the rear, look at the pons/midbrain/medulla and some autonomic contributors (9?, 10?); don't bother with citalopram, as the information concerning "brain zaps" and too many other pieces of bad-voodoo is free, widely-distributed, and pushed by the very folks who make the stuff (and the same goes for effexor and any other med);
(2) if you are inclined to instigate legal action for your continued ingestion of substances that you find not to be of use for your malady, and said ingestion is not required by law nor forced upon you against your will (i.e., it is your choice, as the doctor assesses the situation and writes a prescription: you are hardly bound to take any or all of the medication), please do retain excellent counsel and forward to me the appropriate name(s): despite drinking case upon case of coors light beer, bikini-clad young women did not appear on my doorstep inviting me to a game of beach volleyball and a hot-tub afterwards. the headaches, dry-mouth, expanding gut, and malfunctioning liver are to be replaced by the brewer of the suds;
(3) if you wish further progress in the field of pharmaceutical research for formulating better drugs - keeping in mind the 20-year development process (on average, +/-, and this is before pre-clinical) and the $500,000,000US to $1,000,000,000US cost, all of which stands a great chance of being lost along the way - do not loot the very industry that requires the money to accomodate your needs. on a similar note, why support them at all? why are you putting money into the pockets of the evil producers of the drugs you rely upon to keep you in a state of misery? stop taking the meds and be done with it;
(4) it's good to be back....i've missed you all terribly....all the best, chemist
Posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 10:44:24
In reply to hello to all..., posted by chemist on December 27, 2004, at 10:31:04
bloody hell i just wrote an essay and it got lost..
anyways welcome bk chemist so good to hear from you again ..
thats an excellant post couldnt of put it better myself :-)~
Although it took me 3 reads to understand it :-(
what do you think of these withdrawl symptoms 4 mnths from stopping r emeron cold turkey after nearly 2 yrs?
i get the brain zaps when i look at certain things, think about certain things although very failt they r still there, alot of electricity? my eyes also twitch, my ears buz and i get headaches, i feel very tired, lost all motivation, even when im a little hyper i cant be bothered to do things, i never used to be like this even when i was on remeron this is to weird.. even though im not on no meds now i started effexor was only on it for 4 days then stopped that was a mnth ago.. i only went on it to see if it would help with whats going on with me now. and started 2 weeks after stopping remeron .. is my brain ruined for life? will it get betteR? wats going on? i feel ever so confused..
look forward to hearing from you soon
Posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2004, at 16:08:27
In reply to Re: hello to all..., posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 10:44:24
I second it Chemist! Okay you're right nobody held a gun to us and said take these meds. The pdocs kind of get you hooked when they say things such as "Don't you want to feel better?" So the next thing you know you have ingested this pill and when you tell him you can't take this drug they insist you need an AD "It will help your anxiety, just give it time." The mistakes have been made by a lot of us. Now, what is the final analysis? How long is this going to last, or will it be permanent. Now I'm afraid to use anything including Beer, which I used to find very relaxing, and it didn't interfere with my ability to work or socialize. Help us out Chemist! Phillipa
Posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 16:13:06
In reply to Re: hello to all..., posted by Phillipa on December 27, 2004, at 16:08:27
its like u cut urself with a yelow handled knofe u go to docs they hand u a script for a blue handled knife etc etc ...
Posted by linkadge on December 27, 2004, at 16:28:44
In reply to Re: hello to all..., posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 16:13:06
I'm not saying anyone put a gun to my head, nor did anyone put a gun to the heads of those who suffered the extreme and poorly documented side effects of celebrex and viox.
There is certain information that the drug companies would rather not have you know. Information that is reason for the *extremely* low rates of antidepressant use among employees of Glaxo and Lilly.
I just ask to be able to make an informed decision.
Linkadge
Posted by chemist on December 28, 2004, at 18:20:08
In reply to Re: hello to all..., posted by linkadge on December 27, 2004, at 16:28:44
> I'm not saying anyone put a gun to my head, nor did anyone put a gun to the heads of those who suffered the extreme and poorly documented side effects of celebrex and viox.
>
> There is certain information that the drug companies would rather not have you know. Information that is reason for the *extremely* low rates of antidepressant use among employees of Glaxo and Lilly.
>
> I just ask to be able to make an informed decision.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
hello there linkadge, we are all in - or have been in - the same boat at one time or another...yours seems to be in rather bad shape, if i read your posts further below in the correct light: i do hope you make it through the bleak winter (literal and metaphorical) intact with spirits lifted and brighter news to report...i am firmly aligned with your stance in re: many of the medications sampled by either or both of us, and wish you well before digressing into my usual windy prose....be well, and stay well, please...yours, chemist
Posted by chemist on December 28, 2004, at 19:02:07
In reply to Re: hello to all..., posted by crazychickuk on December 27, 2004, at 10:44:24
> bloody hell i just wrote an essay and it got lost..
>
> anyways welcome bk chemist so good to hear from you again ..
>
> thats an excellant post couldnt of put it better myself :-)~
>
> Although it took me 3 reads to understand it :-(
>
> what do you think of these withdrawl symptoms 4 mnths from stopping r emeron cold turkey after nearly 2 yrs?
>
> i get the brain zaps when i look at certain things, think about certain things although very failt they r still there, alot of electricity? my eyes also twitch, my ears buz and i get headaches, i feel very tired, lost all motivation, even when im a little hyper i cant be bothered to do things, i never used to be like this even when i was on remeron this is to weird.. even though im not on no meds now i started effexor was only on it for 4 days then stopped that was a mnth ago.. i only went on it to see if it would help with whats going on with me now. and started 2 weeks after stopping remeron .. is my brain ruined for life? will it get betteR? wats going on? i feel ever so confused..
>
> look forward to hearing from you soonhello donna, it has been some time, yes?...i do not think it is likely that your brief use of remeron and effexor has changed the structural and/or chemical ``picture'' in your brain, yet i am not in your shoes: if all other causes have been more or less dismissed, then the remaining ones warrant further investigation. my favorite antidepressant remains tranylcypromine, and fluvoxamine is a close second. my trials with fluvoxamine - a true SSRI with a wide dosing range - were both fine and no trauma resulted, as best as i can tell: i took them as prescribed when they were needed. wishing you well, all the best, chemist
Posted by linkadge on December 30, 2004, at 14:38:36
In reply to Re: hello to all... » crazychickuk, posted by chemist on December 28, 2004, at 19:02:07
Taking an antidepressant for a short period of time is one thing, but taking an antidepressant for years is another.
Linkadge
Posted by AuntieMel on December 30, 2004, at 14:53:55
In reply to hello to all..., posted by chemist on December 27, 2004, at 10:31:04
Remember, when in doubt "Excuse me?" works...
CB
Posted by chemist on December 30, 2004, at 22:54:51
In reply to Re: welcome back chemist, posted by AuntieMel on December 30, 2004, at 14:53:55
> Remember, when in doubt "Excuse me?" works...
>
> CB
well, yes, i understand that part of it...i am not quite getting the bigger picture: are the antidepressants to be shunned completely, and psychotherapy to be used exclusively? if the therapy fails, are the patients going to sue? no stranger to lopsided or mutual ``failures'' in the patient/doctor relationship myself, i wonder if the medication + therapist system might go the way of the dinosaurs if we collectively disbanded the lot...i would have to reread all of sternbach's papers and get into the lab again - that enough is reason not to rock the boat, methinks....all the best, chemist
Posted by banga on December 31, 2004, at 15:59:36
In reply to Re: welcome back chemist » AuntieMel, posted by chemist on December 30, 2004, at 22:54:51
Hello,
nice to see your posts, I remember seeing them more when I first started perusing this site a few months back.
I have to agree with many of your points RE: how much we blame the drug companies. Tough there is certainly great effort of drug companies to minimize some negative effects of the drugs, as long as they post about potential negative effects, the doctor and consumer have a responsibility to seek out information and make the decisions. Though I personally feel it is my responsibility to be informed, I know not everyone has the resources to do so; and since doctors are the ones who we turn to as experts, they really are the ones that should be informed, and thus convey, potential adverse events and inform their patients...in an earlier post, I had stated how dispensing drugs should happen in the context of a lengthy conversation discussing pros and cons. Every drug has a side effect, including aspirin etc. and should be taken with the understanding that the good comes with potential bads.
Having said that, I have been fairly impressed with my pdocs...thoug they could have done even more RE discussing side effects, my first pdoc often said of side effects "if you have problems urinating (from Cymbalta), go IMMEDIATELY to the urgent care"; and this new one actually has a form that I sign that states she discussed side effects with me.
I dont think the problem lies (solely) with the drug companies, nor with the poor overworked docs, it lies within the health care system that is not built to allow for lenghtier meetings and old-fashioned relationships with docs, and more time and money allowance for continuing education for docs (I can guess that it is hard for docs to both keep up to speed and see enough clients to make money).Anyways, believe it or not I wasn't even going to comment on that. I meant to ask, what tranylcypromine? A TCA?
Posted by ed_uk on December 31, 2004, at 16:22:21
In reply to Re: welcome back chemist » chemist, posted by banga on December 31, 2004, at 15:59:36
>I meant to ask, what tranylcypromine? A TCA?
Hi!
Tranylcypromine is an MAOI. The brand name is Parnate.
Regards,
Ed.
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