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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 11:52:05
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by Dan Perkins on December 25, 2004, at 10:40:43
Hi Dan,
I feel the same way. Although on the other hand at least I'm not quite as neurotic about sex as I once was.
Me and Sex......
Without a benzo..... sex makes me nervous- don't like my body. Generally feel inadequate.
With 10mg Valium.... less anxious but not interested in sex.
The result.......
Sex is a rarity.
Ed.
Posted by mike13 on December 25, 2004, at 13:39:02
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » Dan Perkins, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 11:52:05
It seems the effects that first resulted while taking SSRI's have not ceased even after discontinuing the medicine.. I have only been off it at a maximum of about 2 months or so enough for the medicine to completely drain from my system but even off the medication I experience persistent cognitive difficulties , feeling slow , extreme apathy , no motivation , memory problems.,just feeling dead personality wise... to sumerize I just don't feel like myself anymore... I have never experienced any of this before starting the medication , I was always the complete opposite.. maybe I have to abstain from the meds for a more prolonged period of time who knows... but regardles this shouldn't be happening to me..
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 14:17:31
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by mike13 on December 25, 2004, at 13:39:02
Mike, I had similar problems after I came off Paxil 40mg/day. The apathy did go eventually but it took much longer than 2 months. Did you take the SSRI for depression or anxiety (or something else)?
Ed.
Posted by mike13 on December 25, 2004, at 14:29:03
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » mike13, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 14:17:31
> Mike, I had similar problems after I came off Paxil 40mg/day. The apathy did go eventually but it took much longer than 2 months. Did you take the SSRI for depression or anxiety (or something else)?
>
> Ed.
Actually paxil was the SSRI that I think started all these problems... it's surprising that it takes that long for you to normalize considering paxil is out of your system in no time but I took the drug for depression and at first it worked great but then I started experiencing the problems I listed above and it has now caused more problems then I had in the first place...it is reassuring to think that possibly abstaining from meds for a little while long could alleviate the apathy problem..
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 14:51:28
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by mike13 on December 25, 2004, at 14:29:03
Hi Mike,
Do you still suffer from depression? If you do, you might benefit from nortriptyline, desipramine (or lofepramine if you live in the UK). Have you tried any of these meds?
Ed.
Posted by mike13 on December 25, 2004, at 15:01:13
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » mike13, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 14:51:28
> Hi Mike,
>
> Do you still suffer from depression? If you do, you might benefit from nortriptyline, desipramine (or lofepramine if you live in the UK). Have you tried any of these meds?
>
> Ed.
I've only tried SSRI'S ... but I am definitely in need of a change I'll look those up thanks..
Posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 15:34:28
In reply to Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 8:13:18
> Hi!!
>
> I remember the last time I stopped taking my SSRI it took ages for me to regain my motivation ie. many months.
>
> After you stopped YOUR SSRI, how long did it take for the apathy to dissapear??
>
> Has anyone noticed any persistent side effects of SSRIs?
>
> Ed.
Hi Ed,I have been off of Effexor for a couple of months now. I may be seeing a tiny bit of motivation coming back - but this may be wishful thinking on my part. Also, it's so hard to determine what can be attributed to the medication and what is the depression itself (since I'm currently unmedicated).
In terms of sex, when I go off of an SSRI, the feelings come rushing back to me. It's much stronger than it ever was in my normal premedication state. It's almost frightening how intense it can be - especially when you're not used to having any drive or sensation. I think that aspect, at least for me, is much more easily fixed than the apathy problem.
K
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:43:24
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » ed_uk, posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 15:34:28
>In terms of sex, when I go off of an SSRI, the feelings come rushing back to me. It's much stronger than it ever was in my normal premedication state. It's almost frightening how intense it can be - especially when you're not used to having any drive or sensation.
Hi K,
Within days of coming off Effexor I had really bad premature ejaculation! (Sorry if you didn't want to know that.) I guess it was a 'rebound' from the 'orgasmic delay' imposed by the Effexor.
Ed.
Posted by linkadge on December 25, 2004, at 15:48:30
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:43:24
The dopamine rebound can cause a temporary paradoxical activation, sexual/otherwise.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:54:43
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by linkadge on December 25, 2004, at 15:48:30
Hi Link,
When I came of Effexor (abruptly) I experienced some quite intense emotions which were actually rather pleasant. Watching the news was transformed from a *emotionless* experience into an *emotional* experience (this didn't last however). Unfortunately, I had some of the usual unpleasant withdrawal symptoms as well.
Ed.
Posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:57:33
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » linkadge, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:54:43
..... I guess if I did experience a 'dopamine rebound' it didn't last very long.
Ed.
Posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:43:57
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by linkadge on December 25, 2004, at 15:48:30
> The dopamine rebound can cause a temporary paradoxical activation, sexual/otherwise.
>
> Linkadge
So that's the culprit?Too bad it had to stop :-)
Posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:45:29
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs » KaraS, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 15:43:24
> >In terms of sex, when I go off of an SSRI, the feelings come rushing back to me. It's much stronger than it ever was in my normal premedication state. It's almost frightening how intense it can be - especially when you're not used to having any drive or sensation.
>
> Hi K,
>
> Within days of coming off Effexor I had really bad premature ejaculation! (Sorry if you didn't want to know that.) I guess it was a 'rebound' from the 'orgasmic delay' imposed by the Effexor.
>
> Ed.
No problem. It's amazing how many things can be affected by these medications!K
Posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:47:35
In reply to Re: Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by KaraS on December 25, 2004, at 16:45:29
Posted by MM on December 25, 2004, at 20:09:48
In reply to Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 8:13:18
> Hi!!
>
> I remember the last time I stopped taking my SSRI it took ages for me to regain my motivation ie. many months.
>
> After you stopped YOUR SSRI, how long did it take for the apathy to dissapear??
>
> Has anyone noticed any persistent side effects of SSRIs?
>
> Ed.
I wish I could be specific, but I tried so many SSRI's, with and without other meds, so all I can say is that I had a bunch of bad effects; many went away and things got a lot better after the withdrawl (which didn't exist when I was getting off them, like Zoloft, so my brain buzzes meant I was just crazy) was over, but I do have some vague effects now that I never had before taking them. Some feelings, some perspectives/states of mind, some personality traits, some physical sensations were all introduced while on SSRI's and I think my brain is forever changed due to them. It did get a lot better (no more buzzing and all the other weird things, like going numb in half of my arm)....I don't know what would happen if I was on no medications though; maybe the anticonvulsants prevent some stuff from showing. I can't say if my depression or medications or not having the right medications makes me still apathetic. It seems like I've gotten a lot of the feeling back, but maybe not all. One thing that started to happen while on SSRI's that has persisted is "weird eye sensations"...like my eye is now going lazy.....sorry for the long post again. I don't think SSRI's are the answer.
Meg.
Posted by MM on December 25, 2004, at 20:14:35
In reply to Persistence of adverse effects of SSRIs, posted by ed_uk on December 25, 2004, at 8:13:18
they made me bipolar. I read something (on bipolarworld.com) that it happens a whole lot more than "they" want you to think....like 30-40% of the time, and believe me if I had known those were the chances I wouldn't have taken that stuff, or kept trying different ones etc. even when it made me feel like ripping my skin off. They were marketed well when too new (in my humble opinion) and now we're seeing the truth about them.
Posted by linkadge on December 25, 2004, at 20:59:34
In reply to oh ya, forgot..., posted by MM on December 25, 2004, at 20:14:35
I know of a few psychiatrists who "got out" because they did not believe the practices of modern psychiatry were ethical. Helping human suffering at what cost? Extreme disturbances in the prospects of long term mental health ??
And the drug companies are "gunning it" these days to try and convice everyone they're depressed. Mark my words, psychiatry is going to run into *significant* complications in the next 10-20 years when it realizes its got a generation of SSRI-addicted zombies with drug induced excitotoxicity that makes neural tissue look like swiss cheese.
Linkadge
Posted by MM on December 25, 2004, at 21:45:44
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by linkadge on December 25, 2004, at 20:59:34
They're all covered for every possible side effect though ...."may cause turning into smurf and running backwards while talking to carrots or any others we haven't thought of, but you still can't sue us" so, I don't know if they'll be the ones facing the consequences... I didn't even know what mania was, and I believe it said "very rare SE" or something. I think if I'd never have walked into a psychiatrist's office, I'd be a lot better off now. But, who can say (no offense to psychiatrists heh...I know there are a lot of good ones, just not sure if I've found that errrr special one? yet). It just worries me when I walk into the waiting room and see a new px pen and then end up on the med.
Not once was I asked about any of the reasons I wanted to stop being on SSRI's (I was 14, I didn't know how it worked, so I struggled to try to explain the weird things happening) and I just got switched around to different ones, without realizing that I was having mixed states. I kinda thought that was how normal people felt, cuz that's what I'd been hearing; that it would make me normal. I didn't have any kind of real support to help me with the research or anything. We didn't even have the net then. Anyway, sorry for the negative posts...lol maybe it's cuz it's Christmas.Meg
Posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 8:49:59
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot... » linkadge, posted by MM on December 25, 2004, at 21:45:44
The sick thing is the raw statistics. For *most* people who have a depression it rarely lasts longer than 6-8 months, and then it gets better on its own without medication.
Well I have been on AD meds for 5 years now! I can't get off the stuff cause I am addicted to it, and I am more suicidal than ever because of the extreme and apparently permanent side effects I am suffering. I wish I had never taken an antidepressant in my life. I can say that with more cetaintly than I've said anything else.
Linkadge
Posted by mike13 on December 26, 2004, at 12:48:40
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 8:49:59
> The sick thing is the raw statistics. For *most* people who have a depression it rarely lasts longer than 6-8 months, and then it gets better on its own without medication.
>
> Well I have been on AD meds for 5 years now! I can't get off the stuff cause I am addicted to it, and I am more suicidal than ever because of the extreme and apparently permanent side effects I am suffering. I wish I had never taken an antidepressant in my life. I can say that with more cetaintly than I've said anything else.
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>What do you mean you're addicted to ad's?? Are you on an SSRI?? How can one get addicted to being apathetic , mindless , emotionless to sum it up feeling completely sub human.. just curious. I'd say I am addicted in the sense that my brain seems to depend on it to function as when it is devoid of a serotonin booster i'm not depressed but I feel extremely slow , I have trouble speaking...etc.. it's like my body depends on it to function normally or something..
Posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 13:33:08
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by mike13 on December 26, 2004, at 12:48:40
Thats exactly it. If I stop taking SSRI's I will be lifeless, dumbwitted, insomniac, rageaholoic,unstable, panic-ridden, neurotic, obsessive, delerious, dysthemic, with dystonia, diskinsia, anorexia, migrane, psychosis, agitation, anxiety, akathesia, tremor, sweating, social phobia, IBS, agression, hypertention, unexplained pain, guilt, fear, shock-like sensations, chills, diareah, nausia, diminished sexual desire, nightmares, orgasmic dysfunction, dizziness, abnormal vision, palpations, increased fatiguability, nervousness, apathy, catatonic reaction, virtigo, stupor, confusion, impaired concentration, blushing, mania, psychomotor retardation, abnormal dreams, abnormal thinking, deprersonalization, vomiting, hostility, neuralgia, abnormal speech, impulse control difficulties, delusions, paranoia, hyperventalation, loss of taste, tachycardia, night sweats, and numb extremities.
I suppose you could say I am addicted, or you could call it something else if you like.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 13:34:27
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 13:33:08
Oh, and the side effects don't go away, nor do they seem to subside over time.
Linkadge
Posted by mike13 on December 26, 2004, at 18:39:08
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 13:34:27
> Oh, and the side effects don't go away, nor do they seem to subside over time.
>
>
> LinkadgeIC what you mean I experience a significant amount of adverse side effects from the SSRI's that seems to persist months after I discontinue the meds...the SSRi's just seem to alleviate these side effects..not eliminate them completely... but I really wouldn't call it an ADDICTION..because of the context it's usually used in people percieve it as a drug you use because of it's euphoric effects .
Posted by francesco on December 26, 2004, at 19:06:25
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot..., posted by linkadge on December 26, 2004, at 13:34:27
I obsessed myself a lot with the possibility that I had got persistent damages from antidepressants. Now I'm taking Anafranil and my obsessions are gone ;-)
This discussion is frightening. I don't wanna hear it ! What's the point in thinking that apathy is dued to antidepressans ? Ok, maybe it's true, maybe it's not, we cannot know it, maybe we're apathetic because our life sucks, maybe because we have failed too often, I think that thinking about meds all day long can have the as consequence that we are unable to see the psychological factors of our problems.
Or maybe this is just what my psychologist says : D
Posted by ed_uk on December 26, 2004, at 19:17:10
In reply to Re: oh ya, forgot... » linkadge, posted by francesco on December 26, 2004, at 19:06:25
Hi!
>I think that thinking about meds all day long can have the consequence that we are unable to see the psychological factors of our problems.
I think that this is a very important point.
>What's the point in thinking that apathy is due to antidepressants?
In my case..... because if the apathy IS due to the antidepressant, I need to reduce the dose.
Ed :-)
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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