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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 9 to 33 of 33. Go back in thread:
Posted by SLS on November 20, 2004, at 22:08:38
In reply to possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 20, 2004, at 20:29:06
From: The Neurobiology of Suicidal Behavior
By: J.J. Mannhttp://www.afsp.org/research/articles/mann.html
"In the 1960s studies exploring the biological basis of depression found that the brain of patients who died by suicide contained abnormally low levels of the chemical transmitter serotonin and its major breakdown product, the metabolite 5-hydroxyindolacetic acid (5-HIAA). In only half of these suicides was the patient suffering from depression; the others carried diagnoses of schizophrenia, alcoholism, personality disorders, and situational reactions."
- Scott
Posted by TenMan on November 20, 2004, at 22:18:39
In reply to possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 20, 2004, at 20:29:06
I also agree with ED and SLS. In some cases of psychoses it is possible to be suicidal but not depressed. Not saying you are though, just answering your question.
Posted by gnepig on November 20, 2004, at 23:16:29
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by TenMan on November 20, 2004, at 22:18:39
How come you can't bring up the answers from SLS and some others on this Thread?
Posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2004, at 7:01:11
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by gnepig on November 20, 2004, at 23:16:29
Hello all,
Wow, I never realised my post would cause such controversy. I wasn't referring to Linkadge at all. I never suggested he had schizophrenia. I was just answering the question.
Regards,
Ed
Posted by Sebastian on November 21, 2004, at 11:09:00
In reply to possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 20, 2004, at 20:29:06
I worried that I would do some thing like drive into the meadian of the road by mistake when I was taking much less medicine. I didn't think I was suicidal. Just worried I would do it by mistake. Maybe I was psychotic, but not depressed. I was taking an anti-depressant, but no anto-psychotic, at the time.
Posted by linkadge on November 21, 2004, at 12:42:29
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by Sebastian on November 21, 2004, at 11:09:00
At the moment I don't even meet much of the criteria for depression either. I read an article on "rational suicide". Where people
commit suicide because it seems like the logical thing to do.Sometimes I feel extremely suicidal after something beautiful has just happened.
For instance, the other day I saw a beautiful sunset while listening to awe inspiring
music. It was one of the most exquisitly beautiful moments of my life.
Shortly after I had the most powerful feelings
that it was time to go now.The same thing happened a few days prior. I watched a move and laughed so hard I thought my stomach would explode. And again, shortly after I felt "well it's time to go now"
I don't understand it.
Linkadge
Posted by ed_uk on November 21, 2004, at 12:52:45
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 21, 2004, at 12:42:29
Linkadge... Sometimes when I take Valium for anxiety I find that when it starts to wear off I feel suicidal for no good reason, I don't feel especially depressed. Suicide just seems like it would be a sensible thing to do, even though I know that it's not.
Ed
Posted by B2Chica on November 21, 2004, at 15:06:47
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 21, 2004, at 12:42:29
L.
i understand exactly what you are talking about. someone awhile ago mentioned that suicidal ideation is like opening a door. once it's been opened...
i agree in a way.but back to what you were saying. wow, can i understand. when you experience that 'beautiful moment', then CRASH... and a complete feeling of this is it...it's time. Very rationale and Very strong.
PLEASE RESIST!
for me it was harder to resist these urges vs. the ones when i was truly sad, depressed feelings. In fact one of many battles i gave in, luckily my OD was not a success.who understands...
Please take care L.
b2c.
> At the moment I don't even meet much of the criteria for depression either. I read an article on "rational suicide". Where people
> commit suicide because it seems like the logical thing to do.
>
> Sometimes I feel extremely suicidal after something beautiful has just happened.
>
> For instance, the other day I saw a beautiful sunset while listening to awe inspiring
> music. It was one of the most exquisitly beautiful moments of my life.
> Shortly after I had the most powerful feelings
> that it was time to go now.
>
> The same thing happened a few days prior. I watched a move and laughed so hard I thought my stomach would explode. And again, shortly after I felt "well it's time to go now"
>
> I don't understand it.
>
>
> Linkadge
>
>
>
>
>
Posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2004, at 19:07:39
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal w/o....yes, posted by B2Chica on November 21, 2004, at 15:06:47
Not to get off the subject, but I am unable to connect to any other thread except those on my mailbox. Anyone out there know why? If so please leave answer on this thread. Thanks!
Posted by sdjeff on November 21, 2004, at 20:47:01
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 21, 2004, at 12:42:29
Linkadge,
Do you have a link to that article on "rational suicide"?
Posted by linkadge on November 22, 2004, at 10:37:04
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ?? » linkadge, posted by sdjeff on November 21, 2004, at 20:47:01
http://biopsychiatry.com/misc/suicide.html
Linkadge
Posted by slinky on November 22, 2004, at 10:46:44
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 22, 2004, at 10:37:04
I can relate to the feeling..non depressed and free from anxiety but feeling content to end my life in a state of
mind comfort...peacefully...and at a time of my own choosing
Posted by Dr. Bob on November 22, 2004, at 21:24:41
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal w/o....yes, posted by Phillipa on November 21, 2004, at 19:07:39
> I am unable to connect to any other thread except those on my mailbox.
Weird, you can't follow any of the links to the main Psycho-Babble page?
Bob
Posted by iris2 on November 23, 2004, at 10:31:46
In reply to Re: possible to be suicidal without being depressed ??, posted by linkadge on November 22, 2004, at 10:37:04
Does anyone agree with me that drug companies should be banned from advertising on TV and magazines? Are we as consumers supposed to be diagnosing and prescribing to ourselves? Do we know best what is wrong with us? Are those advertisements advertising the illness more than the medication? Do many of us learn about depression from these advertisements and only then decide we have a disease? Are these antidepressants over prescribed for many of us who are suffering from life and feeling down about life and not actually "Depressed" or suffering from what might be described as the disease of depression.
I have observed specifically in a friend of mine that after seeing an ad for Strattera she decided her daughter had ADD. Something she never showed signs of having before. What was most disturbing was that upon going to this pdoc (whom she had rigorously disliked but thought she could get her to prescribe to her daughter) the pdoc immediately prescribed Adderall to the girl with no cognitive testing whatsoever. She told the mother to go in the next couple of weeks to get some testing but the mother being convinced, or somehow wanting her daughter to have this medication refused to go and the doctor continues to prescribe. Am I the only one who sees these kinds of abuses of medication prescribing? My own doctor continually tries to prescribe Nsiads (sp) to me for neck problems when I repeatedly ask him for physical therapy. Why are so many doctors so willing to shove medications at us without any proper diagnosis? Is it the time limitations of the HMO's? Are they trained to prescribe or cut out only? What happened to all this alternative medicine stuff I keep reading? No doctor I ever go to seems to prescribe to it. Am I going to the wrong doctors?
Interested in input from others. I am bothered by what I see as a trend to label everything as a disease in this country and then prescribe lots of drugs for it. Especially when it involves supposed "mental illness".
Weary of it all,
Irene
Posted by ed_uk on November 23, 2004, at 10:58:45
In reply to Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies » linkadge, posted by iris2 on November 23, 2004, at 10:31:46
Hi!
In the UK it is illegal to advertise any prescription medication to the public. Prescription drugs can only be advertised to prescribers eg. in the British Medical Journal or doctor's magazines.
Most of our TV ads are for things like OTC antihistamines. We don't get any of the ads that you describe!
Ed
Posted by linkadge on November 23, 2004, at 14:05:06
In reply to Re: Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies, posted by ed_uk on November 23, 2004, at 10:58:45
The drug companies have been gunning it lately for selling their depression meds lately.
And the critera with which they advertise are
so loose that anyone could meet them.It used to be that 20 years ago you really had to be sick to take an antidepressant. Now you could be having a bad hair day and get one prescribed.
I personally find it totally deminishes my authenticity of having a mood disorder. People look at you as if you're just another complainer.
I hate to say it, but I'm glad these drugs have some of the drastic side effects that they do. Cause most of the poeople who are just having a bad hair day think twice about taking a drug that might interfere with their sexual performance.
Having a well informed unbiased documentary to educate a population on what depression is would be a good thing. But if its left to the drug companies to inform us about what depression is, we're going to be in a lot of trouble.
Linkadge
Posted by linkadge on November 23, 2004, at 14:10:41
In reply to I totally agree, posted by linkadge on November 23, 2004, at 14:05:06
And another problem is the fact that stimulants like dexedrine are very rewarding. So even if you don't have ADD, most people will find that a stimulant will further increase their concentration and drive.
Ie, it is very unlikely that someone who is prescribed a stimulant will turn it down.
Think of it this way. If opiates were dispensed as prolifically as stimulants, who is going to turn down morphine. Unless you're educated and understand some of the potential dangers of the drug, it is unlikely that you will turn down something that is so rewarding and reinforcing.
Linkadge
Posted by jasmineneroli on November 24, 2004, at 0:43:59
In reply to Re: I totally agree, posted by linkadge on November 23, 2004, at 14:10:41
Absolutely agree with Link and Irene!!!
It's horrifying how Paxil, for instance, is being marketed on TV. The ads show ppl in ordinary nervousness-provoking situations (like public speaking, or meeting influential strangers), then go on to state that if such situations make you nervous you might have Social Anxiety!!! (The ads have now been removed, but not before months of airtime).
And you're right Link, not only is it wantonly irresponsible, and dangerous, leading ordinary ppl to believe they have a mental disorder, because they feel nervous about meeting their husband's boss. It REALLY negates the true sufferer. No wonder clinicians and the DSMIVr are beginning to be looked at with disdain!Irene, I was actually amazed, when at my last Pdoc visit, he seemed finally to be tired of all my continual side effects to prescription drugs, and suggested L-Tryptophan! I had never had a discussion with him, about "alternative" therapies, before that visit. It turns out he is quite open to me trying supplements etc.!!!!
It's too bad, it wasn't until after he'd run me through a long list of pharmaceuticals!
Take care
Jas
Posted by Bill LL on November 24, 2004, at 10:38:11
In reply to Re: I totally agree-Link/Iris » linkadge, posted by jasmineneroli on November 24, 2004, at 0:43:59
I agree with the arguments against tv advertising. But I think that there are also some advantages. Many people will not take antidepressant or anti-anxiety drugs, or even tell their doctor that they are depressed, due to a perceived stigma. I think that tv ads help to reduce this stigma.
ADD is another condition that docs generally cannot diagnose unless the patient is willing to first report problems with themselves or their children. The ads help parents to at least think about whether or not their kids may have ADD, especially if they are under-performing in school.
So I think that conditions that a doc can diagnose with tests, such as high blood pressure or cholesterol do not need to have tv drug advertisements. But I think that these drug ads can be helpful for conditions that the patient must self report, especially if there is a stigma involved.
Posted by linkadge on November 24, 2004, at 10:49:34
In reply to Re: I totally agree-Link/Iris » linkadge, posted by jasmineneroli on November 24, 2004, at 0:43:59
Thats kind of funny. I read an article that suggested that PDOCS don't touch AD medication.
It suggested that they do use Benzo's occationally, and the other one they used
was vicodin (an opiate). I will try and locate the study, but isn't that funny that PDOCS don't touch AD's.Another *disturbing* comertial I saw was for Straterra. In this comertial, there was a woman in a meeting who blanked out for a few moments. When she was called upon she had obviously been *day dreaming* and had no responce.
This happens *ALL the TIME* with almost everybody now and again. They make jokes about it on Seinfeld.
The scene simply faded away with STraterra appearing in large letters. It is pathetic that they get away with this degree of ambiguity about what the disease is actually about.
Linkadge
Posted by FredPotter on November 25, 2004, at 13:52:47
In reply to I totally agree, posted by linkadge on November 23, 2004, at 14:05:06
perhaps calling it "mental illness" would be enough but then that would risk re-instating the stigma
Posted by dawnfawn on November 26, 2004, at 9:48:29
In reply to Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies » linkadge, posted by iris2 on November 23, 2004, at 10:31:46
I don't know if any of you have seen any of my other listings. I am getting discouraged with my new forte into the world of therapy. This medication problem is only one of my gripes. In the old days talk therapy seemed to work for me. Lately, I have suffered an onset of middleage malaise and a worsening of anxiety. I have started to become obessesed with my health and have developed full blown hypochondria. In my quest to help myself I have been entering back into therapy. I first saw a man who may have been alright in his prime but was quite inappropriate by the time I got to him. His first remark after an hour session when he didn't know me was to tell me that he thought Lexapro would help me. Mind you lexapro samples were strewn all over his office. I know that doctors get all sorts of freebies from the drug companies. To make a long story short I never took an RX from him as I didn't trust him or his judgement. I then went on to CBT which is not supposed to utilize drugs at all. After seven sessions when it looked like action was stagnating my therapist (at my suggestion, not hers) gave me the name of psychopharmacology doctors for eval. You can imagine my surprise when I looked these people up on the web and found that two of them are on the board of a pharmacuetical (sp) house. The other one seems to write articles for newspapers. I am very disgruntled by all this. any comments
Posted by King Vultan on November 26, 2004, at 12:08:32
In reply to Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies » linkadge, posted by iris2 on November 23, 2004, at 10:31:46
I think there are pluses and minuses to the advertising for psychiatric meds. The big plus is that it does tend to reduce the stigma involved with mental illness. Unfortunately, I think the ads also induce many people to come to the conclusion that they or a loved one are in need of some of these meds, when in reality, there is insufficient justification in many cases.
At the very least, I would like to see patients provided with better information on side effects, particularly the ones that occur in large percentages, such as weight gain and sexual side effects with SSRIs. I think that doctors need to also make patients fully aware if a drug has a notorious side effect, such as Effexor's withdrawal effects. If a doctor doesn't warn a patient of side effects that are both common and unpleasant, such as SSRI withdrawal syndrome, my opinion is that it shows gross negligence and irresponsibility.
Todd
Posted by Iansf on November 26, 2004, at 17:14:04
In reply to Re: Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies, posted by King Vultan on November 26, 2004, at 12:08:32
> I think there are pluses and minuses to the advertising for psychiatric meds. The big plus is that it does tend to reduce the stigma involved with mental illness. Unfortunately, I think the ads also induce many people to come to the conclusion that they or a loved one are in need of some of these meds, when in reality, there is insufficient justification in many cases.
>People who truly don't need psychiatric meds are very unlikely to stay on them very long because of the side effects. So even if they are sometimes, maybe frequently, inappropriately prescribed, in the end only people who need them will continue using them.
With the exception, that is, of meds that might be quickly addictive. But typically doctors are very cautious about prescribing scheduled drugs, and the careless ones may well misprescribe whether patients request particular meds or not. When it comes to addictive drugs, I think there are far more overcautious than undercautious MDs.
Posted by iris2 on November 26, 2004, at 21:01:05
In reply to Re: Depression ,Medication,Doctors and Drug Companies, posted by dawnfawn on November 26, 2004, at 9:48:29
I don't know quite what to say eccept don't give up. You seem to have come upon a few docs that are of no value to you but that does not meen that there are not some out there that could assist you. I think we all just have to search hard for them. Perhaps that is why I keep putting of finding a new therapist. I have not seen one for several years but in many years past I have seen plenty that were inadequate and had to quite seeing them after a couple of sessions to try yet another. It is not something that you can just pick a name and think it will work out. You have to see many sometimes before you find one that fits your needs. That has been my experience.
irene
This is the end of the thread.
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