![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 6 to 30 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by green willow on July 9, 2004, at 21:21:55
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by utopizen on July 7, 2004, at 5:04:52
> I hope you're not suggesting that you're taking it during the day (?)
>
> If your pdoc is suggesting daytime use, then he doesn't know what he's talking about.
>
> This is one thing that is certain, and not a media-created myth (by the way, watch out on that media conspiracy stuff-- don't obsess over it-- you'll end up paranoid). This is scientifically valid: daytime use is highly dangerous.
>
> To give you an example, take me. I, the other day, celebrating the 4th, took my leftover Xyrem I hadn't used for months back when I thought my worries would be taken away with it (when in fact it ruined my life) took the stuff.
>
> According to my friend, who witnessed it and unlike me remembers it, I turned bright red all over my chest, I vomited, and was incoherent, and then passed out.
>
> So, um, daytime use is bad. And the dosing-- lol- you need to follow what the big "DEA" people want to follow-- it's for your own good. Unless you like vomitting and turning red all over your body- you ned to slowly titrate the dose at the lowest possible dose they advise in 2 week intervals.
>
>
> And please, stop blaming the DEA for everything, or the media. When combined with alcohol, it does in fact ruin people's lives in date rape situtations. And don't start with the "alcohol does too." I just said it was the combo that is responsible.
>
> There's often a reason why things are the way they are, and if you were a girl maybe you'd have a different take on it. In the meantime, i hope you don't vomit.
utopizen,
I am interested in knowing what problem the Xyrem was originally prescribed for; I mean was it prescribed for insomnia or what in your case? Would you know if you vomitted or turned red during the night when it was originally prescribed? Was the medication a success for you or not? My sleep doc has discussed prescribing it for me and I am skeptical. Thanks.
Posted by utopizen on July 10, 2004, at 12:05:16
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » utopizen, posted by green willow on July 9, 2004, at 21:21:55
> utopizen,
> I am interested in knowing what problem the Xyrem was originally prescribed for; I mean was it prescribed for insomnia or what in your case? Would you know if you vomitted or turned red during the night when it was originally prescribed? Was the medication a success for you or not? My sleep doc has discussed prescribing it for me and I am skeptical. Thanks.
>Prescribed for Idiopathic Hypersomnolence. Basically, I was convinced I didn't have depression, and used sleep doctors to avert myself from going on any antidepressant.
Well, after going on Zoloft, Risperdal and Abilify I no longer even feel the need to take a nap (that and I finally started riding my bike for an hour every day).
NO- YOU WILL NOT KNOW IF YOU VOMIT or turned red (I have no idea what that side effect is called) in many cases. The first two weeks of using it, I was vomitting each night. My roommate casually mentioned how he's heard me vomitting each night, assuming I could remember it. It causes amnesia for the time you are taking it in many cases.
IF YOU HAVE A SLEEPING DISORDER, you are very at risk for depression. In my case, my symptoms were relieved simply by going on two antidepressants (Remeron + Zoloft, taken at BEDTIME) and Abilify (a low-side effect drug).
You can get sleepier on these for the first few weeks, but that will pass and it may very well ease your sleepiness... or at least let you cope with your disorder.
As for Xyrem, I wouldn't bother. It ruined my studies, and I got so many F's and incompletes, that I got kicked out of my top 40 college junior year. Unless you have cataplexy, it ain't worth it.
It's very important to exercise daily, and take an antidepressant if not antipsychotic as well, and to use a nasal irrigation system daily (google Hydro-Pulse).
Don't be fooled by the whole claim about improving delta wave sleep. It's far more effective to deal with your dreams and all because your mood has a lot to do with whether you feel refreshed or not.
Posted by Just a little... on July 10, 2004, at 16:28:59
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » green willow, posted by utopizen on July 10, 2004, at 12:05:16
> > utopizen,
> > I am interested in knowing what problem the Xyrem was originally prescribed for; I mean was it prescribed for insomnia or what in your case? Would you know if you vomitted or turned red during the night when it was originally prescribed? Was the medication a success for you or not? My sleep doc has discussed prescribing it for me and I am skeptical. Thanks.
> >
>
> Prescribed for Idiopathic Hypersomnolence. Basically, I was convinced I didn't have depression, and used sleep doctors to avert myself from going on any antidepressant.
>
> Well, after going on Zoloft, Risperdal and Abilify I no longer even feel the need to take a nap (that and I finally started riding my bike for an hour every day).
>
> NO- YOU WILL NOT KNOW IF YOU VOMIT or turned red (I have no idea what that side effect is called) in many cases. The first two weeks of using it, I was vomitting each night. My roommate casually mentioned how he's heard me vomitting each night, assuming I could remember it. It causes amnesia for the time you are taking it in many cases.
>
> IF YOU HAVE A SLEEPING DISORDER, you are very at risk for depression. In my case, my symptoms were relieved simply by going on two antidepressants (Remeron + Zoloft, taken at BEDTIME) and Abilify (a low-side effect drug).
>
> You can get sleepier on these for the first few weeks, but that will pass and it may very well ease your sleepiness... or at least let you cope with your disorder.
>
> As for Xyrem, I wouldn't bother. It ruined my studies, and I got so many F's and incompletes, that I got kicked out of my top 40 college junior year. Unless you have cataplexy, it ain't worth it.
>
> It's very important to exercise daily, and take an antidepressant if not antipsychotic as well, and to use a nasal irrigation system daily (google Hydro-Pulse).
>
> Don't be fooled by the whole claim about improving delta wave sleep. It's far more effective to deal with your dreams and all because your mood has a lot to do with whether you feel refreshed or not.I actually felt quite refreshed in the morning after using it, very energetic. I had very little side effects with it, there was one time I had to vomit but I was not asleep..
Also I actually do remember the moments after I used it (I usually started reading a book after taking it, don't like laying down and waiting... silly me) but sadly most of the times it seemed to gave me more energy/ideas instead of inducing sleep so I did not take it for long.. not sure if that's a normal effect though.
Posted by utopizen on July 11, 2004, at 14:13:04
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Just a little... on July 10, 2004, at 16:28:59
> Also I actually do remember the moments after I used it (I usually started reading a book after taking it, don't like laying down and waiting... silly me) but sadly most of the times it seemed to gave me more energy/ideas instead of inducing sleep so I did not take it for long.. not sure if that's a normal effect though.
>Insomnia is a common effect with Xyrem-- it's one of the many reasons why I got depressed.
And the vomitting tends to happen after you take the mid-range doses.
Posted by green willow on July 11, 2004, at 18:36:19
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » Just a little..., posted by utopizen on July 11, 2004, at 14:13:04
>
> Insomnia is a common effect with Xyrem-- it's one of the many reasons why I got depressed.
>
> And the vomitting tends to happen after you take the mid-range doses.Shoot! My sleep doctor is actually talking about prescribing it for insomnia, which I have a severe case of. Also having serious stomach problems already. Everything hypes me up, like my brain is just wired "awake".
Posted by utopizen on July 12, 2004, at 5:23:04
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » utopizen, posted by green willow on July 11, 2004, at 18:36:19
> Shoot! My sleep doctor is actually talking about prescribing it for insomnia, which I have a severe case of. Also having serious stomach problems already. Everything hypes me up, like my brain is just wired "awake".
>
>It's not going to work. It'll make it worse.
Meds don't work. I've been down that road. Try breathing exercises with a self-hypnosis tape. It works. It may take a few months of trying, but isn't that better than spending years on sleeping pills?
It may not work at first. Who cares? Try it anyway, especially if you must take meds first. It saved me from hell, as skeptical as I was too.
Posted by Carlos C on October 21, 2004, at 18:32:33
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » utopizen, posted by green willow on July 11, 2004, at 18:36:19
It should work great for insomnia. Thats it's next FDA "approved" indication.
I've been using it for depression and anxiety for about 4 months. NOTHING compares. Especially with it's safety.
> >
> > Insomnia is a common effect with Xyrem-- it's one of the many reasons why I got depressed.
> >
> > And the vomitting tends to happen after you take the mid-range doses.
>
> Shoot! My sleep doctor is actually talking about prescribing it for insomnia, which I have a severe case of. Also having serious stomach problems already. Everything hypes me up, like my brain is just wired "awake".
>
>
Posted by jboud24 on October 22, 2004, at 15:26:45
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 21, 2004, at 18:32:33
Carlos,
How would you compare the xyrem to benzodiazepines, if you have ever taken them. If you would compare their sedative, hypnotic, and anti-anxiety qualities. Of course, any input would be appreciated.
Thanks,
Justin
Posted by Carlos C on October 22, 2004, at 18:13:37
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » Carlos C, posted by jboud24 on October 22, 2004, at 15:26:45
> Carlos,
>
> How would you compare the xyrem to benzodiazepines, if you have ever taken them. If you would compare their sedative, hypnotic, and anti-anxiety qualities. Of course, any input would be appreciated.
>
> Thanks,
> JustinHi Justin,
I had a lengthy report written out for you ...I'm so clumbsy! I hit the refresh button by mistake and POOF! I'll try to re-write it. Hopefully I don't miss too much...
I have used benzodiazepines before. I've used both Xanax and Klonopin for a while. Along with a host of SSRIs, SNRIs, and MAOIs. Simply put I find it simply blows them all (anti-depressants) away! It has a comfortable calming effect with a slight, pleasant hint of euphoria. The best anti-anxiety and anti-depressant I've ever used. The only bad part is it's very short half-life. I find myself having to redose a couple times a day. It isn't all that bad. The positive effects most definitely out weigh this slight inconvienence. Orpham medical the distributors of Xyrem (Sodium Oxybate/GHB) are currently working on this. The rep told me hopefully by sometime next year they may have something.
The best part is that GHB is actually a nutrient. There are plenty of studies that show it has many positive effects on the body. I've been using it for about 3 years and my health has only improved. I've had blood work done on and off of daily use. My doctor says my health is actually BETTER while on it. It has no rebounding effect like benzo's do either. After discontinuing use conditions typically do not intensify. My anxiety and depression never come back worse. I've also noticed no build-up of tolerance.
Like most meds dosing is very user specific. Narcolepsy and insomnia patients usually take 4.5 grams x2 a night. The dose is about half that to get it's anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects. I usually use 2.6 grams 3-5 a day.
You could check out some things from Dr. Ward Dean. He is a GHB expert. He has tons of knowledge of it and has done many studies. He has prescribed it to many of his patients.
Posted by jboud24 on October 23, 2004, at 12:02:54
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 22, 2004, at 18:13:37
Posted by karaS on October 23, 2004, at 14:22:53
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 22, 2004, at 18:13:37
> > Carlos,
> >
> > How would you compare the xyrem to benzodiazepines, if you have ever taken them. If you would compare their sedative, hypnotic, and anti-anxiety qualities. Of course, any input would be appreciated.
> >
> > Thanks,
> > Justin
>
> Hi Justin,
>
> I had a lengthy report written out for you ...I'm so clumbsy! I hit the refresh button by mistake and POOF! I'll try to re-write it. Hopefully I don't miss too much...
>
> I have used benzodiazepines before. I've used both Xanax and Klonopin for a while. Along with a host of SSRIs, SNRIs, and MAOIs. Simply put I find it simply blows them all (anti-depressants) away! It has a comfortable calming effect with a slight, pleasant hint of euphoria. The best anti-anxiety and anti-depressant I've ever used. The only bad part is it's very short half-life. I find myself having to redose a couple times a day. It isn't all that bad. The positive effects most definitely out weigh this slight inconvienence. Orpham medical the distributors of Xyrem (Sodium Oxybate/GHB) are currently working on this. The rep told me hopefully by sometime next year they may have something.
>
> The best part is that GHB is actually a nutrient. There are plenty of studies that show it has many positive effects on the body. I've been using it for about 3 years and my health has only improved. I've had blood work done on and off of daily use. My doctor says my health is actually BETTER while on it. It has no rebounding effect like benzo's do either. After discontinuing use conditions typically do not intensify. My anxiety and depression never come back worse. I've also noticed no build-up of tolerance.
>
> Like most meds dosing is very user specific. Narcolepsy and insomnia patients usually take 4.5 grams x2 a night. The dose is about half that to get it's anti-anxiety and anti-depressant effects. I usually use 2.6 grams 3-5 a day.
>
> You could check out some things from Dr. Ward Dean. He is a GHB expert. He has tons of knowledge of it and has done many studies. He has prescribed it to many of his patients.
>Carlos,
I know that this can show up on a drug test (thank you Nick Nolte) but I wonder if most (potential) employers would actually test for this. I guess if you have a script for it, it's not a problem. The problem is getting a pdoc to prescribe it. How the heck did you manage that?
Thanks,
KAlso, did this have any effect on your motivation or concentration?
Posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 15:29:39
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » Carlos C, posted by karaS on October 23, 2004, at 14:22:53
>
> Carlos,
>
> I know that this can show up on a drug test (thank you Nick Nolte) but I wonder if most (potential) employers would actually test for this. I guess if you have a script for it, it's not a problem. The problem is getting a pdoc to prescribe it. How the heck did you manage that?
>
> Thanks,
> K
>
> Also, did this have any effect on your motivation or concentration?I've never heard of a GHB testing. It's out of your urine in about 2 hours. About the same for blood. I consider myself pretty knowledgable concerning GHB. So I was armed with lots of reputable printed material and experience. Most pdocs I saw were ignorant and knew nothing other than media BS about GHB. I found one that was willing to learn about it and try "experimental" treatment with it. Turns out after meeting with a rep from Orphan Medical that it's used a lot for anxiety and depression. Among many other things. I would suggest talking to your pdoc about meeting with a rep. That might be your best bet.
I find it great for motivation. I tend to be agoraphobic. With it I can leave the house with no anxiety and even pretty sociable.
Posted by karaS on October 23, 2004, at 20:08:05
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 15:29:39
> >
> > Carlos,
> >
> > I know that this can show up on a drug test (thank you Nick Nolte) but I wonder if most (potential) employers would actually test for this. I guess if you have a script for it, it's not a problem. The problem is getting a pdoc to prescribe it. How the heck did you manage that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > K
> >
> > Also, did this have any effect on your motivation or concentration?
>
> I've never heard of a GHB testing. It's out of your urine in about 2 hours. About the same for blood. I consider myself pretty knowledgable concerning GHB. So I was armed with lots of reputable printed material and experience. Most pdocs I saw were ignorant and knew nothing other than media BS about GHB. I found one that was willing to learn about it and try "experimental" treatment with it. Turns out after meeting with a rep from Orphan Medical that it's used a lot for anxiety and depression. Among many other things. I would suggest talking to your pdoc about meeting with a rep. That might be your best bet.
>
> I find it great for motivation. I tend to be agoraphobic. With it I can leave the house with no anxiety and even pretty sociable.
Thanks. I doubt my pdoc would go for it but it might be worth a shot.K
Posted by karaS on October 23, 2004, at 20:16:45
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 15:29:39
> >
> > Carlos,
> >
> > I know that this can show up on a drug test (thank you Nick Nolte) but I wonder if most (potential) employers would actually test for this. I guess if you have a script for it, it's not a problem. The problem is getting a pdoc to prescribe it. How the heck did you manage that?
> >
> > Thanks,
> > K
> >
> > Also, did this have any effect on your motivation or concentration?
>
> I've never heard of a GHB testing. It's out of your urine in about 2 hours. About the same for blood. I consider myself pretty knowledgable concerning GHB. So I was armed with lots of reputable printed material and experience. Most pdocs I saw were ignorant and knew nothing other than media BS about GHB. I found one that was willing to learn about it and try "experimental" treatment with it. Turns out after meeting with a rep from Orphan Medical that it's used a lot for anxiety and depression. Among many other things. I would suggest talking to your pdoc about meeting with a rep. That might be your best bet.
>
> I find it great for motivation. I tend to be agoraphobic. With it I can leave the house with no anxiety and even pretty sociable.
FYI, here's a paragraph on Nick Nolte's arrest:L O S A N G E L E S, Oct. 23 - Prosecutors filed two misdemeanor counts Wednesday against actor Nick Nolte in connection with his September arrest for allegedly driving under the influence. Nolte, 61, faces charges of driving under the influence and being under the influence of a controlled substance, said Sandi Gibbons, spokeswoman for the Los Angeles County District Attorney's Office. Tests indicated Nolte had elements of the banned depressant gamma hydroxybutyrate in his system, she said. Known as GHB, the drug comes in liquid, powder or pill form. It became a popular club drug because of its ability to cause euphoria. The drug can also cause loss of consciousness, which has led to its abuse as a date-rape drug. Nolte checked into a Connecticut rehabilitation center on Sept. 14, just days after his arrest. An arraignment was scheduled Monday in Malibu. If convicted, he could serve up to six months in jail. Nolte had been driving his black 1992 Mercedes-Benz, swerving into oncoming highway lanes, when he was stopped Sept. 11 near his west Malibu home, police said.
Here's the rest of the link but you could do a search and come up with many others.
Posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 22:30:11
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)! » Carlos C, posted by karaS on October 23, 2004, at 20:16:45
It's interested how they worded that. "Elements of GHB". GHB is naturally found in the body. It's found in all mammals. That does not indicated that it was ingested. Even in many meats there are "elements" of GHB. Anyways I don't buy much of that kind of crap from the media.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 23, 2004, at 22:35:43
In reply to Re: Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 22:30:11
> It's interested how they worded that. "Elements of GHB". GHB is naturally found in the body. It's found in all mammals. That does not indicated that it was ingested. Even in many meats there are "elements" of GHB. Anyways I don't buy much of that kind of crap from the media.
There was an episode of Medical Investigation that made GHB out to be a "designer drug", one that bound to DNA, and which caused perfectly healthy young university football players to be paralyzed, in coma, and needing intubation. I frankly view such distorted depictions with great discomfort.
Lar
Posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 23:24:29
In reply to Re: GHB in the media » Carlos C, posted by Larry Hoover on October 23, 2004, at 22:35:43
> > It's interested how they worded that. "Elements of GHB". GHB is naturally found in the body. It's found in all mammals. That does not indicated that it was ingested. Even in many meats there are "elements" of GHB. Anyways I don't buy much of that kind of crap from the media.
>
> There was an episode of Medical Investigation that made GHB out to be a "designer drug", one that bound to DNA, and which caused perfectly healthy young university football players to be paralyzed, in coma, and needing intubation. I frankly view such distorted depictions with great discomfort.
>
> Lar
>
>I feel the same way Lar. Because of such irresponsible, and disgustingly inaccurate reports like that it has unjustly received a bad rap.
Posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 23:38:31
In reply to Re: GHB in the media » Carlos C, posted by Larry Hoover on October 23, 2004, at 22:35:43
> There was an episode of Medical Investigation that made GHB out to be a "designer drug", one that bound to DNA, and which caused perfectly healthy young university football players to be paralyzed, in coma, and needing intubation. I frankly view such distorted depictions with great discomfort.
>
> Lar
>There are 15 INDs filed with the FDA for
1) improving sleep patterns and maintaining daytime alertness in narcolepsy,
2) reducing schizophrenic symptoms,
3) stabilizing Parkinson's disease,
4) reducing nocturnal myoclonus (painful leg cramps at night),
5) improving memory problems,
6) stimulating natural growth hormone release,
7) decreasing pain and improving sleep in fibromyalgia,
8) relieving symptoms in Huntington's chorea,
9) regulating muscle tone in dystonia musculorum deformans,
10) controlling tardive dyskinesia symptoms,
11) decreasing drug withdrawal symptoms (alcohol and opiates),
12) decreasing hyperactivity and learning disabilities in children,
13) inducing sedation and tranquilization,
14) relieving anxiety, and
15) lowering cholesterol.GHB has been recommended as the anti-anxiety agent of choice for potentially suicidal patients.
The incredible dichotomy between GHB as a safe miracle nutrient (with extensive applications to a host of human maladies) and GHB as a lethal designer drug (used for date rape and other nefarious purposes) can hardly be more striking. This can hardly be an accident. It must be by design. But who's design?
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 24, 2004, at 8:20:13
In reply to Re: GHB in the media, posted by Carlos C on October 23, 2004, at 23:38:31
> The incredible dichotomy between GHB as a safe miracle nutrient (with extensive applications to a host of human maladies) and GHB as a lethal designer drug (used for date rape and other nefarious purposes) can hardly be more striking. This can hardly be an accident. It must be by design. But who's design?
<rant mode on>
I couldn't say, literally, but the war on drugs takes no prisoners. Nowhere else on Earth (other than in the US) do people get federal prison time for simple possession of marijuana. It may seem prejudicial of me to say so, but the American people are subject to a vast amount of what is simply propaganda. Unfounded, untrue, exaggerated, prejudicial, manipulative information produced by often un-named government agencies. [Sorry, but this is a pet peeve.]
I'll tell you a little story. Way back when I was in high school, the government disseminated information that LSD caused permanent chromosome damage. DNA was rather a new subject, back then, and few questioned the intent of the government. Well, I've always been a geek. I looked for corroborating evidence. The government published all sorts of statistics, including annual incidence of birth defects. If chromosome damage was occurring, those 60's hippies (now at child-bearing age, in the early 70's) would be having babies with birth defects. Guess what? No signal. Birth defect rates were falling. The government was trashing the reputation of a professor at Harvard, one Timothy Leary.....so I read one of his books on the subject.
The end result was that the first street drug of any sort that I ever used was LSD. It was patent that the government was lying about the drug, so I had to try it. My story may be unique, but there it is.
About GHB....what I don't comprehend is the price they're charging for Xyrem. I saw the figures, months ago, and all I remember is that they were outrageous. The cost of a one-month supply of Xyrem should by you about a half a tonne of GHB. They're making a killing on this stuff. [second pet peeve in one post....wowzers]
<rant mode off>
Lar
Posted by Carlos C on October 24, 2004, at 9:31:07
In reply to Re: GHB in the media » Carlos C, posted by Larry Hoover on October 24, 2004, at 8:20:13
> > The incredible dichotomy between GHB as a safe miracle nutrient (with extensive applications to a host of human maladies) and GHB as a lethal designer drug (used for date rape and other nefarious purposes) can hardly be more striking. This can hardly be an accident. It must be by design. But who's design?
>
> <rant mode on>
>
> I couldn't say, literally, but the war on drugs takes no prisoners. Nowhere else on Earth (other than in the US) do people get federal prison time for simple possession of marijuana. It may seem prejudicial of me to say so, but the American people are subject to a vast amount of what is simply propaganda. Unfounded, untrue, exaggerated, prejudicial, manipulative information produced by often un-named government agencies. [Sorry, but this is a pet peeve.]
>
> I'll tell you a little story. Way back when I was in high school, the government disseminated information that LSD caused permanent chromosome damage. DNA was rather a new subject, back then, and few questioned the intent of the government. Well, I've always been a geek. I looked for corroborating evidence. The government published all sorts of statistics, including annual incidence of birth defects. If chromosome damage was occurring, those 60's hippies (now at child-bearing age, in the early 70's) would be having babies with birth defects. Guess what? No signal. Birth defect rates were falling. The government was trashing the reputation of a professor at Harvard, one Timothy Leary.....so I read one of his books on the subject.
>
> The end result was that the first street drug of any sort that I ever used was LSD. It was patent that the government was lying about the drug, so I had to try it. My story may be unique, but there it is.
>
> About GHB....what I don't comprehend is the price they're charging for Xyrem. I saw the figures, months ago, and all I remember is that they were outrageous. The cost of a one-month supply of Xyrem should by you about a half a tonne of GHB. They're making a killing on this stuff. [second pet peeve in one post....wowzers]
>
> <rant mode off>
>
> Lar
>Thanks for sharing that Larry. I've read about the history of many illicit drugs. A good book is "Saying Yes" by Jacon Sullum if you haven't already read it.
About the price of Xyrem. It really does anger me about how somehow the government and pharm companies got a choke-hold on a natural nutriend. A suppliment that was sold at health food stores now has the same government scheduling as herion. Because of this hysteria what I could have gotten for a couple dolars a month I now have to pay over $700 a month! Luckly my insurance covers most of the cost (for now) but I'm now in jepordy of losing my health coverage. That's a pretty scary thought alone. I could go on and on but I don't think Dr. Bob would care much for that.
Posted by Larry Hoover on October 24, 2004, at 22:09:40
In reply to Re: GHB in the media, posted by Carlos C on October 24, 2004, at 9:31:07
> About the price of Xyrem. It really does anger me about how somehow the government and pharm companies got a choke-hold on a natural nutriend. A suppliment that was sold at health food stores now has the same government scheduling as herion. Because of this hysteria what I could have gotten for a couple dolars a month I now have to pay over $700 a month! Luckly my insurance covers most of the cost (for now) but I'm now in jepordy of losing my health coverage. That's a pretty scary thought alone. I could go on and on but I don't think Dr. Bob would care much for that.
>
>$700!!!!!!! That is an outrage! I just went to google bulk gammahydroxybutirate/butyric acid.....there used to be some sites in India and China that had price quotes.....but they're blocked or something. Not one site comes up now. If I recall correctly, it used to be about $300 for a 55 gallon drum. Even if it had to be distilled and extracted for human consumption, there is a lot of profit being made on this Xyrem.
Lar
Posted by Carlos C on October 24, 2004, at 23:30:45
In reply to Re: GHB in the media, posted by Larry Hoover on October 24, 2004, at 22:09:40
> >
>
> $700!!!!!!! That is an outrage! I just went to google bulk gammahydroxybutirate/butyric acid.....there used to be some sites in India and China that had price quotes.....but they're blocked or something. Not one site comes up now. If I recall correctly, it used to be about $300 for a 55 gallon drum. Even if it had to be distilled and extracted for human consumption, there is a lot of profit being made on this Xyrem.
>
> LarYes, it is very disturbing. Quite a racket that they have going.
This is a crisis manufactured by the FDA, aided and abetted by the DEA, compounded by local police, inflamed by the media, and perpetuated by ignorance. I may sound a bit like a paranoid conspiracy theorist but there is tons of proof. GHB is not the only "substance" caught in this cycle.
Now the the FDA alone stands to make at least $15 BILLION from GHB regulation. The DEA will continually make (waste tax payers money) money investigating illegal drug activity. Don't forget the pharmacheutical companies and doctors. A suppliment safer than tylenol that was once sold at health food stores now has the same government scheduling as herion. Because of this hysteria what I could have gotten for a couple dolars a month OTC I now have to pay an outrageous price. Not only that I am forced to continually see a specialist that I have to pay (out of pocket) to keep my prescription. The only people protected through prohibition are the pharmacuetical companies.
Posted by Dr. Bob on October 25, 2004, at 0:04:28
In reply to Re: GHB in the media, posted by Carlos C on October 24, 2004, at 23:30:45
> This is a crisis manufactured by the FDA...
Sorry to interrupt, but I'd like to redirect follow-ups regarding this crisis to Psycho-Babble Social. Here's a link:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/social/20041016/msgs/406855.html
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by pablo1 on October 26, 2004, at 0:53:34
In reply to Pdoc finally prescribed GHB (Xyrem)!, posted by Carlos C on July 4, 2004, at 11:43:13
I've read a bit about this one. It is scheduled along with heroine because the addiction syndrome can be quite vicious. Take a read on usenet where the addicts discuss:
http://groups.google.com/groups?hl=en&lr=&ie=UTF-8&group=alt.drugs.ghb
I do believe it is truly a wonder drug used in moderation though. Very safe and too pleasurable for FDA approval. My understanding is that it's best use is for social anxiety and instant evaporation of suicidal ideation. For sleep, it seems a poor choice because it only lasts a couple hours then you wake up feeling wired on a dopamine rebound. I suppose that's OK for desperatly sleep deprived folks but even then it'd be silly to have to wake up & re-dose every 2 or 3 hours through the night as the addicts do. It is supposed to induce perfect baby-like sleep only with that time limitation. Used during the day in small doses it is simply euphoric & calming in a fantastic and wonderful way without side effects. In excess it is quite a pathetic addiction to have and for some people it will be very tempting to abuse. Not as bad as heroine, I'd say but very serious as a substance of addiction.Neurontin is another med which is supposed to be quite similar in effect though much much milder and completely ineffective for some people.
Another med I just heard about on this list is pregabalin (Lyrica). It is prescribed as an anticonvulsant for anxiety disorders, depression, bipolar disorder & pain.
Here is a quote from that mention on this list:
------------------------
Re: lyrica is really a super-neurontin!
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/20041018/msgs/404659.html
Posted by jlbl2l on October 19, 2004, at 7:57:55In reply to Re: lyrica is really a super-neurontin!, posted by utopizen on October 19, 2004, at 7:40:38
i dont know, but Lyrica is very stimulating. it is very hard to explain. It is so great so social phobia, and i have tried Nardil, Klonopin (1year) and many others.
This drug is comparable to GHB or a mild XTC. I am not kidding. I am very surprised its not controlled. I am taking 2 200mg caps daily only.
In the side effects leaflet the first listed common side effect is "feeling of elation"
I am certaintely feeling that!
Posted by Carlos C on October 26, 2004, at 12:21:49
In reply to Re: Straight dope on GHB (Xyrem), posted by pablo1 on October 26, 2004, at 0:53:34
I would agree that GHB's short half-life can definitely be a negative. There is a formulation currently being worked on to extend that. So it's only a temporary, minor annoyance. It has no physical addiction effects. There is no physical withdrawl. I've been on practically every SSRI, SNRI, and MAOI. Now there is some very real physcial widthdrawl. I have been using it (GHB) for years, multiple times, daily. I can (and have) stop for short or extended periods of time, at any time.
If there is any possibility addiction it is simply pyschological. The same people that would become addicted to it would probably be addicted to many other things. It would be better to be addicted to something non-toxic (which GHB is - even at high doses). There are no deaths directly related to GHB and no long-term negative effects. If you "over-dose" you sleep - really well. Then you wake up. Simple as that. It is when adding CNS depressants, or pre-exsisting conditions/complications is when it may cause a problem. I would much rather take something natural and non-toxic like GHB than any current anti-convulsant or benzo daily for my condition.
As has been emphasized, the overall safety of GHB is well-established, and no deaths attributable to GHB have been reported over the thirty year period that this compound has been in use [Vickers, 1969; Chin and Kreutzer, 1992]. Unlike a large proportion of other drugs including alcohol and even Tylenol, GHB has no toxic effects on the liver, kidney or other organs [Vickers, 1969; Chin and Kreutzer, 1992]. One program of sleep therapy using six to eight grams daily for a period of eight to ten days produced no side effects. Vickers [1969] even reports that doses as high as twenty to thirty grams per twenty-four hour period have been used for several days without negative consequences In the Canadian studies of narcolepsy mentioned earlier, the nightly use of two to six teaspoons (one teaspoon equaling roughly 2.5 grams) for several years resulted in no reports of long-term adverse effects, or problems with issues of addiction or dependence. In one of these studies, one patient inadvertently ingested fifteen teaspoons without adverse consequence “other than deep sedation and headache the next day” [Chin and Kreutzer, 1992]. And in France, sub-anesthetic oral doses were used by “a large number of patients for about six years” without untoward effect [Laborit, 1972].
This is the end of the thread.
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