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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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Posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 2:43:49
In reply to Re: Please help me understand: harryp, posted by kittencat on May 10, 2004, at 21:12:26
About MAOI's:
There is a pretty good diet/drug list on the www.dr-bob.org homepage. Someone taking a MAOI needs to avoid any aged food that might contain tyramine. This includes most cheeses (esp. cheddar) (some cheeses are safe, I just don't like cheese, so I haven't bothered to find out. They should be on the list)
Soy sauce is very bad, so are aged meats like bacon and sausage.
Any drugs containing or resembling ephedrine (like cold medicines) need to be avoided, along with prescription stimulants. SSRI's cannot be combined with MAOI's.
Tap and foreign beers can be a problem, too.
Oddly, Italian broad beans are bad because they contain too much dopamine.Cottage cheese, yoghurt, and sour cream are fine.
Generally if you like freshly cooked foods like beef, fish, chicken, and vegetables and fruit (except Italian broad beans) and avoid strange aged sauces you will be able to eat very well (and healthily).
If you do eat a problem food (can happen by mistake!) you may have a hypertensive crises: very high bp ~200/~90 or more, accompanied with a strange throbbing headache. If this happens, you should not panic, but just get medical treatment as quickly as possible.
Your doctor should make arrangements with a local doctor's office and the ER to have your chart and phentolamine (the best drug for returning your bp to normal) available, so you can just walk in and get the necessary injection.
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Abilify tales of horror...Well, I shouldn't really talk about Abilify...
Since some people have had great responses to it.Personally, I took a pill on Friday night, and Saturday I felt like a zombie. I felt really horrible, kept winding up back in bed, couldn't think, and couldn't really move very well. I kept telling myself it would wear off, but I felt almost as bad on Sunday (I had only taken the Fri. pill). I was so mad I wanted to cry--but I couldn't cry, or even FEEL like I wanted to cry (that's scary!). I managed to go out to my Aunt's birthday party, but I was in a complete fog. My Monday I still felt messed up, but the drug was finally wearing off, and it wasn't till Tuesday I felt normal again.
I think I saw my doc that day or the next, and that was when we established that AP's were out for good!
He's a nice guy, though, I can remember how excited he was on Friday: "Harry! This is the newest kind of antipsychotic." (me thinking: new?! AP? blah!) "It should have mood-elevating properties. And it ISN'T a dopamine antagonist, but a partial agonist, so it actually raises dopamine levels if they are too low!" (me thinking: sounds fishy, but hey, what the heck? Maybe it will work!)
Posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 2:57:41
In reply to Re: Please help me understand: harryp, posted by kittencat on May 10, 2004, at 21:09:54
The studies that exist seem to indicate that MAOI's are the most broadly effective AD's around, and they have a good side effect profile (esp. Parnate--which may have the best SE profile of any AD).
The "fly in the ointment" is the risk of hypertensive crisis. There have been only a few cases where an untreated crisis caused a stroke or death, but that's enough to make doctors terrified of prescibing them.
Psychiatrists loved the SSRI's because they could be prescribed like candy, with almost no liablity concerns. It's very hard to kill yourself with an SSRI!
Part of the problem with MAOI's is that psychiatrists tend not to trust their patients, and they are afraid that their pt. will not pay attention to diet, have a crisis and just take aspirin for it, and possibly get a stroke.
In practice, avoiding the problem foods and drugs is not hard, and if you get prompt treatment for a hypertensive crisis it will not do you any harm.
The main problem is that you have to be careful when traveling. Carrying a copy of your medical chart with instructions from your doctor wouldn't be a bad idea, because many ER staff haven't seen a MAOI-hypertensive crises before, and may have trouble figuring out what's going on.
Posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2004, at 9:01:26
In reply to Why MAOI's rarely prescribed » kittencat, posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 2:57:41
> The studies that exist seem to indicate that MAOI's are the most broadly effective AD's around, and they have a good side effect profile (esp. Parnate--which may have the best SE profile of any AD).
>
> The "fly in the ointment" is the risk of hypertensive crisis. There have been only a few cases where an untreated crisis caused a stroke or death, but that's enough to make doctors terrified of prescibing them.
>
> Psychiatrists loved the SSRI's because they could be prescribed like candy, with almost no liablity concerns. It's very hard to kill yourself with an SSRI!
>
> Part of the problem with MAOI's is that psychiatrists tend not to trust their patients, and they are afraid that their pt. will not pay attention to diet, have a crisis and just take aspirin for it, and possibly get a stroke.
>
> In practice, avoiding the problem foods and drugs is not hard, and if you get prompt treatment for a hypertensive crisis it will not do you any harm.
>
> The main problem is that you have to be careful when traveling. Carrying a copy of your medical chart with instructions from your doctor wouldn't be a bad idea, because many ER staff haven't seen a MAOI-hypertensive crises before, and may have trouble figuring out what's going on.i went to the states to pick up some abilify.... it's been a wonder drug for me... and apparently the states has no walkin clinics for family doctors/general practictioners like we do in canada... but i did manage to find a special mental health walk in clinic..... so i asked them for a perscription for abilify since i saw them once before a year ago and they said it would be okay... they said no.... i said fine, i'll see a doctor and they can evaluate me.... and they gave me some long story about how you have to pay to $300 to see a counsellor and doctor every 2 weeks if you want medication...
so i just told them i would wait for my antipsychotic to run out, then i would come back when i'm in a manic rage and they could deal with me then :)
i ended up seeing a doctor, and had no problem getting abilify.. but was told how wrong it was that i was taking parnate .. no one takes that anymore apparently... my response was to just stare at her like she was a retard... though i'm thinking an alternative reply would have been to say .. "and in the UK they perscribe antipsychotics rather than benzos for anxiety but i don't think either country has psychiatrists who know what they are doing" ....
Posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:12:56
In reply to Re: Why MAOI's rarely prescribed, posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2004, at 9:01:26
I love all your posts! Thanks for the humor, guys...it really helps. And I feel guilty that my doctor just blithely handed me $450 worth of Abilify, & I'm considering throwing it out.
The diet sounds fine for me for an MAOI...I don't eat or drink any of those things, normally.
By the way, my doctor's response was similar, after I burst into tears when he told me I needed Zyprexa. "KittenCat!" (ok, ok, I know). "I think we may be on to something here!! Try these pills...take 15 mg a day...it will stop your bipolar!" "But doctor, I'm not bipolar...I'm just really, really depressed...I don't think I'm psychotic...plus, I'm a ballerina & can barely get off the couch. I need to be a million pounds underweight...won't these make me gain weight??" "Well, just give 'em a go and see...then we'll go from there". Awesome. So when I'm fatter than ever & puking my guts out every day, in between my four hour medication induced naps, will that be enough to convince him I don't think this is right??
Bugger. Well, today is fourth day on 3.75mg Abilify. So far I don't feel abilified to do anything except sleep, but I have committed to one week. Or two. Not sure.
You guys are great! Thanks...
Posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:31:16
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:12:56
By the way, I never did get a response to this. What do people think??
"When prescribed for a schizophrenic (Abilify), what symptoms does it alleviate? Is anything else prescribed in conjunction, or is that it? For example, most posters have stated that it is outstanding in terms of being an energizing, motivating drug. Is that why it is prescribed to schizophrenics, to enable social contact? Or does it truly help to eradicate the psychosis?"
Posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 13:09:49
In reply to Re: Abilify, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:31:16
I have heard from people with schizophrenia that Abilify has been great for them.
There are different "schizophrenic" symptoms. The people you meet or talk to and seem quite normal generally suffer from positive symptoms (hallucinations, paranoia, delusions) that make it impossible to function. AP's like Abilify help "turn off" or quiet these symptoms so such a person has a chance to function normally.
Abilify (and Geoden, it seems) are unusally good for controlling those symptoms without making the patient too numb or sleepy to enjoy the benefits.
(In the "bad old days" which I'm sorry to say aren't over yet, even high-functioning people with schizophrenia were just doped up with AP's, and weren't able to do much of anything but watch TV and eat.)
People with predominantly negative symptoms i.e "catatonic" (just aren't there) seem to have a much poorer prognosis.
The positive symptoms of schizophrenia sometimes remit with age (take John Nash, for example). I think the best thing for someone with schizophrenia is to take enough meds to control the symptoms (but make sure not to be overmedicated) and be involved as much as possible in life.
Good experiences and relationships seem to encourage the brain to at least partially heal itself--in both schizophrenia and depression, IMHO.
Posted by Questionmark on May 11, 2004, at 15:24:32
In reply to Re: Why MAOI's rarely prescribed, posted by cybercafe on May 11, 2004, at 9:01:26
harryp said:
> > The studies that exist seem to indicate that MAOI's are the most broadly effective AD's around, and they have a good side effect profile (esp. Parnate--which may have the best SE profile of any AD).
> >
> > The "fly in the ointment" is the risk of hypertensive crisis. There have been only a few cases where an untreated crisis caused a stroke or death, but that's enough to make doctors terrified of prescibing them.
> >
> > Psychiatrists loved the SSRI's because they could be prescribed like candy, with almost no liablity concerns. It's very hard to kill yourself with an SSRI!
> >
> > Part of the problem with MAOI's is that psychiatrists tend not to trust their patients, and they are afraid that their pt. will not pay attention to diet, have a crisis and just take aspirin for it, and possibly get a stroke.
> >
> > In practice, avoiding the problem foods and drugs is not hard, and if you get prompt treatment for a hypertensive crisis it will not do you any harm.
> >
> > The main problem is that you have to be careful when traveling. Carrying a copy of your medical chart with instructions from your doctor wouldn't be a bad idea, because many ER staff haven't seen a MAOI-hypertensive crises before, and may have trouble figuring out what's going on.Those are such great points.
Cybercafe said:
> i went to the states to pick up some abilify.... it's been a wonder drug for me... and apparently the states has no walkin clinics for family doctors/general practictioners like we do in canada... but i did manage to find a special mental health walk in clinic..... so i asked them for a perscription for abilify since i saw them once before a year ago and they said it would be okay... they said no.... i said fine, i'll see a doctor and they can evaluate me.... and they gave me some long story about how you have to pay to $300 to see a counsellor and doctor every 2 weeks if you want medication...
>
> so i just told them i would wait for my antipsychotic to run out, then i would come back when i'm in a manic rage and they could deal with me then :)
>
> i ended up seeing a doctor, and had no problem getting abilify.. but was told how wrong it was that i was taking parnate .. no one takes that anymore apparently... my response was to just stare at her like she was a retard... though i'm thinking an alternative reply would have been to say .. "and in the UK they perscribe antipsychotics rather than benzos for anxiety but i don't think either country has psychiatrists who know what they are doing" ....So true!
And when are psychiatrists going to learn that what is popular and common is NOT necessarily right and best!!! Yeah, lobotomies, excessive use of ECT, and horribly high-dose use of typical antipsychotics were once used all the time this last century, and now we (or anyone with any sense, at least) look on that with disgust and incomprehension. So why do psychiatrists think that all of toDAY's most popular treatments are fine/right/best?!!!!!!!!!!!! IDIOTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Sorry. It just infuriates me beyond expression to hear how so often psychiatrists (those who are suppOSEd to be some of the most knowledgeable people when it comes to treating mental disorders with medications) will refuse to prescribe an MAOI or think it's senseless to do so and yet they will presribe atypical antipsychotics (usually in too high a dose as well, esp.ly since in my opinion those w/out a psychotic disorder require much less AP even if it would help them) to their patients for anything and everything. i just want to round them all up in a gigantic room and scream logical truths at them from the bottom of my lungs.
Ah, sorry again.
KittenCat said:
"I love all your posts! Thanks for the humor, guys...it really helps. And I feel guilty that my doctor just blithely handed me $450 worth of Abilify, & I'm considering throwing it out."Don't throw it out. If you can't at least give it back to your dr (which is probably the case) then you should at least save it. You might find someone you know who takes Abilify and you could sell or give it to them. Er, no, i didn't say that. But yeah, save it just in case. You never know if it might come in handy somehow. (And that's alotta money to ditch).
"The diet sounds fine for me for an MAOI...I don't eat or drink any of those things, normally.
By the way, my doctor's response was similar, after I burst into tears when he told me I needed Zyprexa. "KittenCat!" (ok, ok, I know). "I think we may be on to something here!! Try these pills...take 15 mg a day...it will stop your bipolar!" "But doctor, I'm not bipolar...I'm just really, really depressed...I don't think I'm psychotic...plus, I'm a ballerina & can barely get off the couch. I need to be a million pounds underweight...won't these make me gain weight??" "Well, just give 'em a go and see...then we'll go from there". Awesome. So when I'm fatter than ever & puking my guts out every day, in between my four hour medication induced naps, will that be enough to convince him I don't think this is right??"That story infuriates and enrages me more than i could even begin to explain. How STUPID must your doctor be to prescribe you 15mg Zyprexa deSPITE everything you said to him/her? AH!!! Don't take it. Seriously. If you're not bipolar or schizo-anything or psychotic, don't freaking take it. It's not worth. Why waste your time with something that will inevitably do nothing but make you feel like crap for various reasons? i told my good (OCD and neurotic) friend this when he was seeing a moron of a psychiatrist that i used to see and he kept prescribing him antipsychotic after antipsychotic. Then my friend would go back to him and complain about how bad he was feeling, and the dr would either just lower the dose, switch to another AP, or tell him that it's not going to work if he doesn't have patience and give it an adequate chance (and this is all while he is feeling like absolute S**T from these drugs!!!)!. He went from Zyprexa to Risperdal to Abilify, and THEN, to the typical antipsychotic Loxapine, which he likened to torture. During this time, the only other med changes that occurred were taking him off Paxil near the beginning (which another stupid dr had prescribed him), adding low dose Klonopin at his request (as i suggested), and, when he complained about how bad he was feeling and how lethargic he was, and how he wanted to just try Klonopin for a little while, the stupid idiot took him OFF Klonopin and kept him ON Risperdal!!
Take a stand people! You are the patient and the client; you are paying the money; YOU are the one taking the DRUGS-- do not allow them to prescribe you something that you are adamantly (and knowledgeably) against. Ask for what you really think is necessary (such as quitting an AP or what have you) and do not back down. Tell them to just listen to you for a minute, then tell them the reasons for why you believe what you believe, and then if they are still arrogantly and ignorantly stubborn, then tell them that if they continue to act so foolishly (or whatever) then you will look for treatment elsewhere-- in as kindly but assertive manner as possible. Okay, i know how unrealistic this is considering that good doctors are hard to come by and you have to wait so long to even get another appointment with a different one, but still, stand up for your rights.
i WISH SO DESPERATELY THAT EVERY PSYCHIATRIST WOULD HAVE TO TRY BEING ON A DRUG THAT DID NOT MESH WELL WITH THEIR CHEMISTRIES AND THEREFORE GAVE THEM HORRIBLE SIDE EFFECTS-- ANY KIND OF PSYCHIATRIC DRUG THAT IS PARTICULARLY UNSUITABLE FOR EACH OF THEM-- AND THEN BE TOLD THAT THEY HAD TO STAY ON IT FOR A MONTH OR SO LONGER TO SEE IF IT EVENTUALLY STARTS TO MAKE THEM FEEL BETTER. i think the compassion and intelligent decision-making of psychiatrists would then be increased tremendously.
Goodness. i've wasted another half-hour of my life on another fruitless rant.
"Bugger. Well, today is fourth day on 3.75mg Abilify. So far I don't feel abilified to do anything except sleep, but I have committed to one week. Or two. Not sure.
You guys are great! Thanks..."Oh, well at least you're off Zyprexa now. 3.75mg is a pretty low dose too. i've heard mostly good things about very low dose Abilify though. i hope it works out for you.
Posted by Sebastian on May 11, 2004, at 18:21:32
In reply to Please help me understand schizophrenia/ Abilify, posted by kittencat on May 10, 2004, at 0:01:21
My doctor would say, "what ever works!". Its harmless. It does alot of things that anti-depressants do. Other people take it for depresion only also.
Posted by Sebastian on May 11, 2004, at 18:24:59
In reply to Re: Abilify, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:31:16
I didn't like it. Too much energy. Anxiety also. I did give moments of happyness, but also worse moments of unhappyness.
Posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 19:28:22
In reply to Re: Abilify, posted by Sebastian on May 11, 2004, at 18:24:59
Thank you so much, all of you. Your posts have been so funny, so insightful, & most of all, so supportive.
Well, I'm not gonna take anymore (today was day four). I know I said I was gonna commit to two weeks, but...just can't do it. Abilify makes me feel like detoxing from Effexor. I am totally exhausted, super weak in the arms & legs, nauseous, & most of all, that horrible zooming dizziness. Also, a non-stop feeling of jitteriness inside...the afore-mentioned akathasia, I suppose. Yuck. This is not for me. As Jubei said, my own depression feels better than these side effects. Never thought I'd say that. I know it could be great, but I guess I'm not willing to hang in there.
Bring on the Prozac.
Posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 21:11:38
In reply to Last words on Abilify, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 19:28:22
Good for you for giving it a try. Who knows? It might have worked. I definitely agree that you were smart to quit with those side effects, and I admire you for going four days. (I only lasted one dose, remember!)
I can't remember if you said you had tried Prozac. It's a very decent AD, in my opinion. (The newer SSRI's and Effexor don't appear to work any better, and seem to often do awful things to people).
I still think Parnate "might" be perfect for you. It is a pretty serious drug, but if you've tried SSRI's, Welbutrin, TCA's without results it's very logical to go to the MAOI's, and your concern about low energy and weight gain would make Parnate my first choice (Nardil is better for social anxiety, but DOES usually cause weight gain).
Posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 23:03:43
In reply to Re: Last words on Abilify » kittencat, posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 21:11:38
Thanks for being so nice...& for the reminder. I am going to ask him about Parnate first thing, & even if he discourages it, I will really stand my ground. Thanks for arming me with all the knowledge & advice...if I hadn't learned all I had from you re: MAOIs, & my doctor were to say no, I would've just dismissed the whole idea. Now I feel empowered...
Thanks, all...
Posted by cybercafe on May 12, 2004, at 3:45:09
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 11:12:56
> I love all your posts! Thanks for the humor, guys...it really helps. And I feel guilty that my doctor just blithely handed me $450 worth of Abilify, & I'm considering throwing it out.
>
> The diet sounds fine for me for an MAOI...I don't eat or drink any of those things, normally.
>
> By the way, my doctor's response was similar, after I burst into tears when he told me I needed Zyprexa. "KittenCat!" (ok, ok, I know). "I think we may be on to something here!! Try these pills...take 15 mg a day...it will stop your bipolar!" "But doctor, I'm not bipolar...I'm just really, really depressed...I don't think I'm psychotic...plus, I'm a ballerina & can barely get off the couch. I need to be a million pounds underweight...won't these make me gain weight??" "Well, just give 'em a go and see...then we'll go from there". Awesome. So when I'm fatter than ever & puking my guts out every day, in between my four hour medication induced naps, will that be enough to convince him I don't think this is right??
>
> Bugger. Well, today is fourth day on 3.75mg Abilify. So far I don't feel abilified to do anything except sleep, but I have committed to one week. Or two. Not sure.
>
> You guys are great! Thanks...hey send that abilify over here! .... seriously i can get my doctor to write a note and CC: dr. bob if you wish .... dammit i am going broke waiting for those disability dudes to come to a decision (how long does it take in the states?)...
like what am i supposed to do to survive now, become a crack dealer or something? ugggggg... and i wanted to go to med school and help people. Well thanks for destroying that dream, o' corrupt gov't of mine.
Posted by cybercafe on May 12, 2004, at 3:46:42
In reply to Re: Last words on Abilify » kittencat, posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 21:11:38
> Good for you for giving it a try. Who knows? It might have worked. I definitely agree that you were smart to quit with those side effects, and I admire you for going four days. (I only lasted one dose, remember!)
>
> I can't remember if you said you had tried Prozac. It's a very decent AD, in my opinion. (The newer SSRI's and Effexor don't appear to work any better, and seem to often do awful things to people).
>
> I still think Parnate "might" be perfect for you. It is a pretty serious drug, but if you've tried SSRI's, Welbutrin, TCA's without results it's very logical to go to the MAOI's, and your concern about low energy and weight gain would make Parnate my first choice (Nardil is better for social anxiety, but DOES usually cause weight gain).i second the go for parnate, especially in the case of atypical/vegetative depression
Posted by Sebastian on May 12, 2004, at 11:20:03
In reply to Last words on Abilify, posted by kittencat on May 11, 2004, at 19:28:22
WARNING: Witdraw from abilify, may be worse than abilify itself. Alow 3 weeks to recoperate. The side effects may get worse befor better, even after stoping. Just wanted to let you know. I tryed abilify for 3 different short time frames of aproximatly 2 weeks. Did the same each time, the more you took the worse it would be.
Posted by Sebastian on May 12, 2004, at 11:26:26
In reply to Re: Last words on Abilify » kittencat, posted by harryp on May 11, 2004, at 21:11:38
I'll put a good word on celexa. Didn't like prozac or any generics one bit.
Posted by Sebastian on May 12, 2004, at 11:28:29
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by cybercafe on May 12, 2004, at 3:45:09
If your doctor will write an approval note. You can have 30 pills of 15 mg.
Posted by Lazarus on May 12, 2004, at 19:00:47
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on May 12, 2004, at 11:28:29
Abilify is prescribed for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. I am bipolar and have found that it has great mood stabilization properties. I feel extremely calm and stable.
Lazarus
Posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2004, at 3:43:46
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs » cybercafe, posted by Sebastian on May 12, 2004, at 11:28:29
> If your doctor will write an approval note. You can have 30 pills of 15 mg.
no problem....
Dr. Bob -- should i send you a copy or just my doc's contact details?
anyway sebastian you can always contact me at xxx .... i am going broke ($500+ US !!) travelling to get the drugs, see the doctor, etc... with zero insurance and canadians treated at 100% of sliding scale!i'd like to think there is a way for us to help each other out legally.... i mean the system can't completely be out to thwart our every attempt to get better, can it?
Posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2004, at 3:46:07
In reply to Re: Abilify-Good mood stabilizer, posted by Lazarus on May 12, 2004, at 19:00:47
> Abilify is prescribed for schizophrenia and bipolar disorder. I am bipolar and have found that it has great mood stabilization properties. I feel extremely calm and stable.
yeah it's awesome... i'm a bit less stable down at 1.75mg and a bit less motivated but feel much more creative and spontaneous and quick thinking .... it's great that we can get away with taking such TINY doses... (like no movement disorders, cholesterol dropped 80% or so, etc... )
Posted by Dr. Bob on May 13, 2004, at 23:53:23
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by cybercafe on May 12, 2004, at 3:45:09
> hey send that abilify over here! .... seriously i can get my doctor to write a note and CC: dr. bob if you wish
I'm sorry it's a problem for you, but please do not request medication directly from or offer it directly to others here:
http://www.dr-bob.org/babble/faq.html#illegal
Thanks,
Bob
Posted by wcfrench on May 14, 2004, at 1:01:14
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by cybercafe on May 13, 2004, at 3:43:46
Yes it can!
Posted by wcfrench on May 14, 2004, at 1:02:05
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs » cybercafe, posted by wcfrench on May 14, 2004, at 1:01:14
The system, that is.
PS. how are ya
Posted by cybercafe on May 14, 2004, at 3:25:24
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs » wcfrench, posted by wcfrench on May 14, 2004, at 1:02:05
> The system, that is.
>
> PS. how are yai am doing AWESOME i just feel a lot of fear and anxiety over having no money but needing to eat and pay rent and buy meds and such
Posted by wcfrench on May 14, 2004, at 4:22:46
In reply to Re: Abilify and MAOIs, posted by cybercafe on May 14, 2004, at 3:25:24
HEY welcome to my world! Is your e-mail addy on here? If not, drop me a line at w c f r e n c h -@- loyno.edu.
Except without the spaces or the dash. So web crawlers don't spam me/us :)
See ya
This is the end of the thread.
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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
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