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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 25 of 25. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Hi All.
I am not liking what's going on with me. The significant improvement of my depression that came from the addition of memantine to my treatment has completely vanished. It has been two weeks since I felt best. It has been 4 days since I have felt any improvement at all. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster with this thing despite my attempts to stay off the ride. I was genuinely convinced that I was on my way to experiencing life again. Now, I am becoming convinced that I never will.
I guess I can pretend for a few more days that there is a chance that this stuff will kick-in again. However, I had a very scary reaction to this recent drug failure. There really isn't much left for me to try. I'm not that young anymore. I no longer feel that I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I know that 44 is not old, but it now seems old enough that I might be able to make my peace with God and prepare myself for committing suicide. I have never felt prepared to do this before. That I don't believe in a hereafter has gone a long way to prevent me from leaving life in the past. To me, suicide does not mean moving on to another destination. It is to end forever my only occasion of existence. I am afraid now that if I work on it seriously, I can prepare myself for death.
- Scott
Posted by harryp on May 10, 2004, at 11:38:46
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
If my Parnate gave out, we'd be in the same boat.
Please hang on, since I'm sure you'll cycle out of this awful state and see some possibilities you hadn't thought of before.
You're right, 44 is not old. I'm 29, and have discovered that "old people" are people who talk about nothing but their medications, their husbands' prostate surgery (if female), Medicare, who's getting a pacemaker next, and arguing about when so-and-so is going to die. Until you start doing that, you have a lot ahead of you.
Check out the augmentation stuff I posted to you above. There are always those weird cases where Parnate + lithium and trifluoperazine and maybe a little bit of a TCA nailed depression that had gone on for decades. There's always something new to try. Like a MAOI + methylphenidate! It has been done, but it's kind of like porcupines making love--very carefully.
So be good to yourself. You didn't ask for this, and the world already has too few people with hearts--if only so many of them weren't broken...I'm not sure why that is.
Posted by Emme on May 10, 2004, at 11:52:35
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Hi Scott,
> I am not liking what's going on with me. The significant improvement of my depression that came from the addition of memantine to my treatment has completely vanished.
Oh no, I'm so sorry. I know you were holding out hope on this one. I understand the devastation when a treatment that had been helping and that you thought might do the trick goes bust.
> There really isn't much left for me to try.
I know you've been through a bazillion trials, but there's just *got* to be something. Do you feel your pdoc is good? Have you been for a consulting opinion? Two consulting opinions? Where do you live - maybe we can help you find some names.
> I'm not that young anymore. I no longer feel that I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I know that 44 is not old, but it now seems old enough that I might be able to make my peace with God and prepare myself for committing suicide.
Yes, I hear you. BUT, I and many others will be *seriously*, *massively* upset if anything happened to you. You're just too good a person. Perhaps you are feeling that you don't want to upset anyone but that you're not going to be able to hold on too much more. But ambivalence is part of the game too, and I beg you to hang on to the part, however small, that's keeping you alive. It's good that you're writing to us so we can give you as much help as we can.
> That I don't believe in a hereafter has gone a long way to prevent me from leaving life in the past. To me, suicide does not mean moving on to another destination. It is to end forever my only occasion of existence.
That's very similar to what I have felt. If that's been helping you hold on to this existence, then please hold on a bit longer. You've been an amazing example of perseverence and strength. If you are losing your will to keep on fighting, keep talking to us and we will support you and poke and nudge you to keep tyring.
> I am afraid now that if I work on it seriously, I can prepare myself for death.
DON'T YOU DARE!!!!!!!!!!!!!! DO YOU HEAR ME?
Emme
Posted by kittencat on May 10, 2004, at 13:33:09
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Check this out...
I heard this in church yesterday. Please don't recoil...I am NOT a religious fanatic. I only go to church maybe once a month, if that. When I do go, it is because I am feeling so suicidal, I am desperate, and I drag, & I mean drag, myself out of the house.
Yesterday, the pastor brought up some interesting stuff that penetrated my despondance, & may possibly help you. It can be interpreted any way you like...take religion totally out of the equation if you want to.
Quote from famous biblibal dude: "Why was I born? Was it only to have trouble and sorrow, to end my life in disgrace?"
Another quote from another famous biblical dude: "My life seems so useless! I have spent my strength for nothing & for no purpose at all!"
My pastor said that there are three levels of being when it comes to figuring out a good reason to stay alive.
The first: Survivalism. We are surrounded by tons of these people. Most depressives don't fall into this category. These are people like my parents. People alive just for the sake of living. Getting up, going to work, coming home, eating, sleeping. Automatons. People who do not question...people who simply exist. A sad and lacking life, in my opinion.
The second: Hedonism. People who literally enjoy life to a point that they want to keep on living. People with money. People who care about money, possessions, sex, work, a lot. You know the irritating bumper sticker "The one with the most toys wins"? Those types of people. People living, basically, for what they can squeeze out of the world. No real honorable purpose.
The third: Kind of a mystery. The pastor promises to expound within the coming weeks, but he has indicated that it is people who live for a purpose. Peole who know, exactly, what they are here on Earth for, and what their purpose is, and can bear all the other horrible things because they can see beyond them. Now, I suppose he is going to say that that purpose is to serve God. But fine, forget that! That doesn't exactly gel with me either. What I'm saying is, can you figure out your purpose? If you can, then you can live with the agony. I'm not just full of crap...I've been in misery since age five. I first tried to commit suicide at age 15, & have had at least five dead serious attempts since then. I have had many more "cries for help", if you will. My life is a cocoon of misery. I have shut myself off from everyone. My parents are horrible. No one understands. This is a crappy way to live, and I don't see the point, either. I feel like I'm already dead, anyway.
About two weeks ago, I stumbled across this website. In my eyes, a gift from God, but call it what you will. I still feel miserable, but I have never had such hope in my life. I never knew there were all these people out there feeling exactly what I'm feeling. Depression is an insidious, evil disease. It makes you lock yourself away & whispers lies & untruths into your ear all day until you are begging for mercy. You feel like you are the ONLY ONE who feels so bad, who does these weird things, who just can't get it together no matter how hard you try. Then you come to a place like this, & you find there are thousands, probably millions of people who feel the same way.
Try to figure out your purpose. I don't know mine, either, but my pastor says we all have one, believe it or not. Could your purpose, at least for a while, be to just keep posting on this website? Could it be to help people that really need you, like me, & in return get help from us? I really think it could be.
Please don't go. If I can do it, you can do it. There must be something better than this, and it can't be death.
Posted by chemist on May 10, 2004, at 13:33:11
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
I am gravely concerned about this, Scott. What can *we* collectively do? Please, please, please think about your condition as a TEMPORARY setback and DO NOT GIVE UP. You have cleared the hurdles many, many times and will do it again. Let us know what we need to do to help. Be well, chemist
Posted by partlycloudy on May 10, 2004, at 14:05:44
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Scott, please get a second opinion from another p-doc. Chemist is right on the money - the possible combinations of medications are endless. There is hope for your depression. Weren't you just put on miraplex or albify or something? I am so bad at all these meds names, forgive me. Just please don't give in or up.
partlycloudy.
Posted by Dauphine on May 10, 2004, at 14:14:54
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is. » SLS, posted by chemist on May 10, 2004, at 13:33:11
Scott,
I am no expert on different drug cocktails to help allieviate depression and mental illness, and I'm sure that you have tried most things pharmacutially to help yourself feel better, but please do not think that this latest setback with medication is the last thing you can try to live a happy life. You even said that 2 weeks ago you felt you were on your way to leading a happier life, that's practially a second of time considering our lives on the whole. I think the sadness you feel right now is more one of disappointment than anything else (I'm sure it is much more complicated than that). You never know what might happen tomorrow, it may be a new drug, a new purpose, a new person, or maybe even a cute little puppy! Think of the little things right now that you take pleasure in, and leave the existential questions to someone else right now. You are so right about the roller coaster thing -- I know it is tiring, but ride this one out. I have only been posting on this site for about 2 months, but I have seen many of your posts and you have been there to provide constant suggestion and support to people in need. Please don't stop.
Sincerely
Dauphine
Posted by rod on May 10, 2004, at 15:24:43
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Dear Scott,
Oh, please dont do it! You said you have bipolar depression. I think this is just a temorary relapse, or you experience what all the warning boxes on my prescription infos say:"..sigificantly increase in suicide risk before remission occurs. The inhibition to commit suicide may subside before the antidepressive effect gets noticeable. Suicidal patients schould be closely monitored..."
Maybe you just should stay on Memantine much longer. In your case, the 2 month rule doesnt apply, IMO. Maybe this is just a temporary state in the progress towards remission.best wishes, and please dont harm yourself
Roland
Posted by judy1 on May 10, 2004, at 15:36:19
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
so that more people can provide support- a lot of 'babblers' don't come to this board.
I've known you for what 5-6 years? and you have gone out of your way to help me when I felt suicidal. some of the things you have told me is that depression clouds your judgement, that sometimes meds 'poop out' but others come along, and mostly that a lot of people care about me. well, a lot of people care a great deal about you and that is never going to change. so I need to convince you to take one day at a time and that this ideation will pass (it ALWAYS does) and that you are too important to me (and many others) to even consider suicide. please make sure you are safe and call your therapist.
sending hugs and love your way- judy
Posted by Dinah on May 10, 2004, at 16:40:49
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Scott, you know as well as anyone the insidious messages that depression sends. They sound sooo convincing. And somehow our minds lose access to anything that counteracts the thoughts. Depression is a very clever enemy.
But you also know that depression lies.
I don't pretend to be knowledgeable about medications, but I know there are tons and tons of options out there. Ones that belong on the medication board and "alternatives" as well. I also know that there are other methods to supplement the medications. Therapy, eastern philosophical practices. I'm not saying they're enough on their own, but they can be part of an overall cocktail.
Moreover, suicide is a serious decision that shouldn't be made while you're anywhere near a medication change. You yourself say you're on an emotional roller coaster. Medications, and especially changes in medications, can do odd things to feelings and thoughts and judgement.
Scott, lots of people on this board value you and care about what happens to you. I'm sure there are many people off this board who feel the same way. You are too good a person for anyone to give up on - including yourself. Please don't give up on yourself.
Please tell your pdoc how you're feeling - total honesty, no holding back. Print the post out if you need to. He's not going to be able to help you adequately if he doesn't know exactly what's going on.
Posted by greywolf on May 10, 2004, at 20:32:11
In reply to Sc ott, I would like to move this to social or psy » SLS, posted by judy1 on May 10, 2004, at 15:36:19
Hey, Scott. Hang in there, man. I know from long experience what it's like to bounce from one ineffective med to the next, wasting time adjusting to SEs but knowing full well that the med's not gonna work.
So what do you do when you've run into that same brick wall for the hundredth time? Get ready to run into it again. And again, and again, and again. Until you break through. All there is, is to go on.
I don't subscribe to embuing depression with personal qualities. In my mind, it's not an enemy with a face. Rather, it's a way of living, and not the best way. Finding the right meds help us get up some of the steeper hills or keep us going so we don't linger too long at the bottom of the valleys, but nothing's a cure-all.
That you're up out of bed and moving forward today is a testament to you, not some drug. That you will be up and trying something new tomorrow is a testament to you, and perseverance. You'll help yourself today, and one of us tomorrow. And you'll go on, working harder than others for your happiness, but probably appreciating it more, too.
So do us all a favor and let us know that you'll continue climbing these mountains with us. We'll be much the happier for that knowledge.
Posted by flipsactown on May 10, 2004, at 23:44:49
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Scott,
I know exactly what you are going through. It is very painful having to live with depression and when you have felt what it was like to be depression free, however temporary, through the use of ADs, it makes you feel even more depressed when the depression returns. But, the answer is not to give in to depression by letting it get the best of you and making you give up. The answer is what you have been doing all along, researching and educating others including the medical community of the seriousness of depression. You have inspired many people, especially me, on how to cope with depression by doing even more research and educating others through this forum. Every time I vist PB, I make sure to read SLS's posts because they are educational, interesting and inspiring. Please continue to inspire us by not giving into depression. You're the MAN, SLS! Please don't lose hope. We are all here for you.
FST
Posted by Sad Panda on May 11, 2004, at 4:52:40
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
> Hi All.
>
> I am not liking what's going on with me. The significant improvement of my depression that came from the addition of memantine to my treatment has completely vanished. It has been two weeks since I felt best. It has been 4 days since I have felt any improvement at all. I have been on an emotional rollercoaster with this thing despite my attempts to stay off the ride. I was genuinely convinced that I was on my way to experiencing life again. Now, I am becoming convinced that I never will.
>
> I guess I can pretend for a few more days that there is a chance that this stuff will kick-in again. However, I had a very scary reaction to this recent drug failure. There really isn't much left for me to try. I'm not that young anymore. I no longer feel that I have the rest of my life ahead of me. I know that 44 is not old, but it now seems old enough that I might be able to make my peace with God and prepare myself for committing suicide. I have never felt prepared to do this before. That I don't believe in a hereafter has gone a long way to prevent me from leaving life in the past. To me, suicide does not mean moving on to another destination. It is to end forever my only occasion of existence. I am afraid now that if I work on it seriously, I can prepare myself for death.
>
>
> - Scott
>
>Youch! The reason I started AD's is because of the endless suicide ideations I was going through & the only reason I didn't do it is because it would upset too many people. You are the number one contributor to this board & far to many people are going to miss you, so you should stay. :)
If you a bored you could list all the drugs you have tried. I'd be interested in reading it.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by sjb on May 11, 2004, at 10:03:11
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is. » SLS, posted by flipsactown on May 10, 2004, at 23:44:49
Scott,
I can't say it better than FSP. Your are such a valuable resource to many of us. I feel for you and have had the same irrationale rationale and am also 44. PLEASE, reach out.
Posted by flipsactown on May 11, 2004, at 11:24:45
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by sjb on May 11, 2004, at 10:03:11
Thanks for the compliment, but it is FST for Flipsactown.
FST
> Scott,
>
> I can't say it better than FSP. Your are such a valuable resource to many of us. I feel for you and have had the same irrationale rationale and am also 44. PLEASE, reach out.
Posted by SLS on May 11, 2004, at 13:46:58
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is. » sjb, posted by flipsactown on May 11, 2004, at 11:24:45
Hi All.
Thanks for the support.
I saw my doctor today. He raised my dosage of memantine (Namenda) to 30mg. The target dosage used for Alzheimer's is 20mg, but clinical trials included dosages up to 40mg. I don't think it will work, but it was the logical thing to do.
I am not as despondent today as I was yesterday. I have been trying not to think about things. It really isn't denial, but more like a refusal to attend to things for the sake of survival. The support here helps a lot.
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by ravenstorm on May 12, 2004, at 9:51:58
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 11, 2004, at 13:46:58
Scott-
I'm so sorry that you are having to go through this. I was suicidal for literally four months this winter. The only thing that kept me from doing it was the thought of having my husband find me. I can't offer any comforting platitudes because those months were absolute hell and nothing anyone said to me at the time were remotely helpful. Everyone kept saying "You'll feel better soon" and as the days and months went by trying this and that drug I became convinced that I would never be well again. But,the funny thing is, they were right, six months later and I'm starting to feel better and am on an AD that at the very least isn't making me worse (prozac made me even more suicidal, and all the SSRI's made me horrendously ill).
What I did to make myself feel better when none of thee meds were helping (they were actually hurting) was go this website that lists new drugs that are in clinical trials or that are about to approved or just approved etc. It would give me some hope that if there was nothing out there for me now, maybe in a few months or years there would be. I know it is small comfort, but for some reason it helped me.
I have severe stomach problems,so I became very interested in the emsam selegeline patch (hopefully coming out by next year) and an injectable AD that does something with peptides that is only in phase II trials.
Anywayy, you probably already know the website but it is: PsychopharmINFO.com
Take care, and please don't give up. We are all pulling for you. Please let us give back just a fraction of the help that you have given to others.
Posted by chemist on May 12, 2004, at 11:22:54
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 11, 2004, at 13:46:58
Scott, good to have you back and hearing positive things! Keep on, chemist
Posted by noa on May 12, 2004, at 20:21:10
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 11, 2004, at 13:46:58
Scott,
I have also known you about 5 years and have seen how helpful you have been to so many people over the years. You can see by all the responses how affected people are by hearing how badly you feel and that you are feeling near the end of your rope.
I am glad today was a tad better. What you wrote:
>I have been trying not to think about things. It really isn't denial, but more like a refusal to attend to things for the sake of survival.
makes total sense to me. Sometimes you have to decide to go on a kind of "autopilot" to survive. This means suspending any decision making, suspending evaluation of your life, etc. Just getting through the day. And it does really help to try to distract yourself during this.
Someone on this thread mentioned the bipolar depression, which was also a good point--that there may be cycles of recurrence that come and go once in a while that don't have to signal a real turn for the worse.
But your doctor seems to think you aren't sufficiently medicated and that is very plausible.
Take it day by day or hour by hour, to get through. Don't make any big decisions now.
Take care, Scott.
Posted by snapper on May 13, 2004, at 2:12:01
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is. » SLS, posted by noa on May 12, 2004, at 20:21:10
I happened upon this post of yours....
please hang tough!!>Posted by SLS on October 8, 2000, at 13:38:02
In reply to Re: It's my party and I'll die if I want to. , posted by coral on October 8, 2000, at 8:10:44
The biggest problem with allowing a depressed individual to rationally decide to end their own life is that they are most often not rational. Their judgment is impaired and skewed by the warping of congnition and perception that is the manifestation of the depression itself. Their thought processes are inextricably contained within the confines of a depressed mood, influencing the individual's decision-making processes to draw conclusions that they might not draw in the absence of depression.
Suicidality is often fleeting. Suicide is not.
- ScottDON'T GIVE UP!!!
Snapper
Posted by karen_kay on May 13, 2004, at 18:46:14
In reply to Re: Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 11, 2004, at 13:46:58
scott,
you will get through this.
you will find something that works for you, without burning out.
you will be happy, but don't give up that hope that you will. i haven't given up the hope that you will.scott sweetie, take care of yourself. i have nothing but the fondest thoughts of you. and please don't give up that hope, even when things look bad. you really are such a caring person dear, and i'd hate for something to happen to take away such a wonderful person in this world.
Posted by firenrain on May 13, 2004, at 21:26:02
In reply to Preparing - I don't want to, but part of me is., posted by SLS on May 10, 2004, at 11:23:38
Scott, Just 2 months ago I felt like you described. It seems like when I experience that little break of light and hopefulness, only to feel 2 days later like it was just wishful thinking. Then my dep. sinks rapidly lower and hopelesness seems to consume me. What I want to share with you is I have been there 3 times and I do eventually get much better. I realized that I could not trust my judgement at those times. Please just tie a knot and hang on, be nice to yourself (sorry so cleche')it helped me to remind myself constantly that I was ill, not bad. I hope daybreak comes soon for you.
Posted by SLS on May 14, 2004, at 9:51:11
In reply to Re: Scott I can relate ...This is temp., posted by firenrain on May 13, 2004, at 21:26:02
The support here is wonderful and much needed. I'm in a better place because of it.
:-)
Thanks.
- Scott
Posted by chemist on May 14, 2004, at 23:54:18
In reply to Thank you - You all make a difference. :-), posted by SLS on May 14, 2004, at 9:51:11
scott, good to have you back...you make a difference here, don't forget that....chemist
Posted by HappyGirl on May 16, 2004, at 0:07:27
In reply to Thank you - You all make a difference. :-), posted by SLS on May 14, 2004, at 9:51:11
Hin Scott:
You sound like a good person with many knowledge regarding M.I. Then, your responses along with good writing makes this board, 'Psycho-Bubble' quite unique and VERY informative.
Please keep coming back as often as possible.I know that we, all have some 'dark days' one way or other, .... but please try to keep 'active,' because you have a good reason to be here in this society/Earth.
H.G.
This is the end of the thread.
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