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Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 1 to 12 of 12. This is the beginning of the thread.
Posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 16:10:57
Has anyone else had their depression made worse by lithium?
Is it possible that things get worse before they get better?
- Scott
Posted by crazychickuk on January 21, 2004, at 16:40:16
In reply to Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 16:10:57
Thats why i am afraid of asking for lithium!! because my depression has got to the stage where i do not care what happens to me, thats why i am avoiding downers as best as i can..
Posted by blondemomints on January 21, 2004, at 17:09:45
In reply to Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 16:10:57
My sister is BP & manic and she was never on Lithium alone because she said she stayed depressed and felt worse. Her psych doc added Paxil (about the only one she's been able to tolerate) and she's a different person. So much *happier* then when she took Lithium alone.
Not sure if this helped or not...just wanted to let you know about her situation. Bless you!
Posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 17:16:59
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by blondemomints on January 21, 2004, at 17:09:45
my pdoc warned me when she put me on lithium orotate that it could potentially make me more depressed. I think it has to do with depressing dopamine that makes you more depressed. But at the same time, it has antidepressant effects because it increases serotonin (but very little from what I understand). You might want to try adding an AD as mentioned if it continues to make you more depressed
Posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 18:12:37
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 17:16:59
> my pdoc warned me when she put me on lithium orotate that it could potentially make me more depressed. I think it has to do with depressing dopamine that makes you more depressed.
Thanks. I've always suspected that I was deficient in dopaminergic activity. That would make sense. I guess I'll look into it some more. Did you see anything on the Internet?
- Scott
Posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 18:16:19
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE! » john1022, posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 18:12:37
here is what I found on the internet...
L. Orotate and dopamine release
Lithium is most famous for treatment of manic-depressive disorders. At high doses lithium can depress dopamine release.
Adaptive changes in the rat dopaminergic transmission following repeated lithium administration.
Dziedzicka-Wasylewska M, Mackowiak M, Fijat K, Wedzony K. Institute of Pharmacology, Polish Academy of Sciences, Krakow, Poland.
In the present study the alterations in the contents of dopamine (DA) and metabolites, as well as in the levels of mRNA coding for DA receptor D2, were determined in the rat striatum (STR) and nucleus accumbens septi (NAS), in correlation with the duration of lithium administration. Single or subchronic (3 days) administration of lithium produced less consistent effects as far as the levels of DA and metabolites are concerned; however, following 7 or 14 days of lithium administration, the DA release from terminals was significantly attenuated and the effect was more pronounced in NAS. After the same time of treatment, the increase in the levels of mRNA coding for the D2 receptor was increased; this might be interpreted as an adaptive change to the decreased dopaminergic transmission following the prolonged administration of lithium.
(which tends to flatten elevated moods), while at lower doses it can stimu
Posted by Lazarus on January 21, 2004, at 18:26:48
In reply to Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 16:10:57
I have been on and off lithium for 17 years and my experience is that it does NOT ameliorate depressive symptoms.
Lazarus
Posted by jay on January 21, 2004, at 20:10:51
In reply to Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by SLS on January 21, 2004, at 16:10:57
> Has anyone else had their depression made worse by lithium?
>
> Is it possible that things get worse before they get better?
>
>
> - ScottScott...what symptoms are you trying to treat? I was another "bad responder" to lithium...and man I just felt miserable all the time. For some, I hear this is quite common. Please read my reply to CrazychickUK about some recent developments I have found being a BP2'er.
Best,
Jay
Posted by sac on January 21, 2004, at 20:39:46
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE! » SLS, posted by jay on January 21, 2004, at 20:10:51
Just had my second trial with Lithium and gave up again. I felt completely depressed and miserable on it. I am Bipolar II, maybe it's just too much for me I don't know. I seem to do better with the anti-convulsants.
Posted by SLS on January 22, 2004, at 7:11:22
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE! » SLS, posted by jay on January 21, 2004, at 20:10:51
I suffer a severe and chronic depression that has lasted for over 25 years with only one 9-month period of relief. I was diagnosed as bipolar NOS because medication has triggered serious manias on three occasions (a syndrome that was planned to be named bipolar 3 in the DSM 5). The major symptoms are anergia, anhedonia, psychomotor retardation, impaired concentration and memory, and slowing of cognition in general.
I skipped taking lithium on Tuesday. I need to be at my best on Friday because I have to help move my grandmother from a rehab center to her home. Since my head seemed clear enough after 24 hours after skipping the dose, I decided that I could try it for at least one more day and see if the worsening of depression recurred. After taking 300mg last night, I have yet to feel a negative effect today. Of course the day is still young at 8:00am.
The thing that gives me some hope is that I experienced a significant antidepressant effect from lithium the day after my first dose. This happened to me once before with me. On that occasion, I was unable to recapture the effect despite increasing the dosage and continuing to take it for over 6 months. It definitely made me feel moderately worse at dosages of 600-1200mg. If it is going to work as an augmentor, it should work at dosages of 300-600mg. I was hoping to avoid the negative effects in this range.
- Scott
Posted by ramsea on January 22, 2004, at 9:17:28
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by SLS on January 22, 2004, at 7:11:22
Lithium has an anti-depressant effect that works fairly well for me. I am not overmedicated. When I took more than 1000 mg I felt whammed, just really low, not like in my Mixed Episodes, but lethargic, slow. At 800 mgs. I can't even tell I am on a med. My creativity is there and so is my energy. I do get some breakthrough mood swings that are brief but intense and scary at the time.
I think that is the pay off for having lithium work for me over-all most of the time, but without causing a downer. I opt for a lower dose and accept breakthrough intense swings will happen. Then make plans for these mini-episodes, safety zones.
Yesterday my pdoc asked me if I felt slowed down, sort of low, because he said many patients when they come down from a manic/mixed/hypo episode and start to feel "normal" also experience what they call depression. For some of them he said, it is real depression and needs treating.
For other lithium-users it is actually just loss of hypomanic/manic energy. We feel it is not there and it can make us feel hopeless and lost. He said it takes time to re-shape a sense of self and purpose that is based on ordinary emotions. We are so accustomed to extremes. I know for me I feel like I am "the me I like to be" when I am somewhat hypomanic.
And pdoc said that most people never really feel like that. They work and play and create to the tune of a much less grand symphony---and still manage to be productive. So I have some getting used to things as they are now. A little slower, a little lower. But it's not depression. I'm just not kinda nicely high "on life".
Posted by Mindy on March 30, 2004, at 10:47:46
In reply to Re: Lithium is making me feel WORSE!, posted by john1022 on January 21, 2004, at 17:16:59
> my pdoc warned me when she put me on lithium orotate that it could potentially make me more depressed. I think it has to do with depressing dopamine that makes you more depressed. But at the same time, it has antidepressant effects because it increases serotonin (but very little from what I understand). You might want to try adding an AD as mentioned if it continues to make you more depressed
I took lithium many years ago in combination with other antidepressants (they kept trying to find the "right" one for me w/o side effects). I gained 70 pounds while taking lithium, my hands shook all the time, and it didn't seem to help my depression. I know it can be a miracle drug for many people, but I was certainly NOT one of them. Would never take it again.
This is the end of the thread.
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