![[dr. bob]](/dr-bob-sm.gif)
Dr. Bob is Robert Hsiung, MD,
[email protected]Shown: posts 2 to 26 of 30. Go back in thread:
Posted by Sad Panda on March 21, 2004, at 12:42:30
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
>Is it safe to flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant?
>
>It's probably not to bad to switch between those two. Paxil probably isn't swappable with the other SSRI's as it has some anti-cholinergic properties.
My doc gave me Prozac to try first(energizing, so not a bad choice for an obese male), but it was a failure. When I went back to get something else he had a mountain of sample packs of Lexapro on his desk.... Much to my amazement, he gave me a script for Effexor(Prozac with a punch!), so I was kind of happy he didn't just give me what the drugs reps were obviously ramming down his throat. I'd read the reports of bad withdrawl symptoms, but I took the Effexor, because I REALLY needed too take something & it actually worked, only problem is the side effects. :)
SSRI's aren't too bad for first choice drugs I guess, docs prescibe them first because they are the hardest AD to OD on, which is actually their only real advantage over TCA's & MAOI's. If you get a response from one I reckon it's worth sticking to it for a while & using agumentation to get something going. ie: Add Wellbutrin or Remeron or a secondary TCA. I have read that Zoloft + Nortriptyline or Desipramine is supposed to be a pretty good combo. I am taking Remeron with Effexor, which is supposed to be very good. What we need is new versions of Clomipramine & Amitriptyline without the heart problems & anti-cholinergic problems.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Sad Panda on March 21, 2004, at 12:43:57
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Drugs tests favour who ever is paying for the testing :)
Posted by Questionmark on March 21, 2004, at 13:03:13
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Good points. i've only been on one SSRI-- Paxil-- so i can't answer your other questions, but i do want to comment on the one. i really do not think that it is a good idea to "flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant" because, in addition to the fact that each of the SSRIs have mild pharmacological differences other than 5-HT reuptake inhibition, they also have different pharmakinetic profiles and varying degrees of reuptake inhibition. And is impossible to completely accurately estimate the comparitive potencies of reuptake inhibition between one SSRI and the next, so you go from one to another and you'll be getting either greater or lesser inhibition of serotonin reuptake-- frequently enough to have at least somewhat detrimental subjective consequences for the patient. i have heard about a number of people doing this and feeling bad for awhile after the switch, until the leveled out again on the old or replacement SSRI. It bothers me so much that so many pdocs even fail to see this alot.
> I started to write a post about my history of self medicating my depression with alcohol and opiate analgesics (only in small amounts, like two Vicodin a day), but the long post was somehow lost when I passed out from being so tired. I'm frustrated about it, but maybe it was TMI anyway. Basically, I know for a fact that opiate receptors are not working properly in some people, and I am one of them. I have to supplement with small doses of opioids to feel "normal," and I have to have Xanax on standby to ease daily panic attacks. The depression and anxiety started when I was ten, then exploded when puberty hit. That's why I question the role hormones play in my overall mental health picture (and everyone else's for that matter).
>
> What is so damned frustrating for me is the guessing game with the different anti-depressants. With opiates, it is clear what the medicine is doing: filling those receptors that fire neurons to the brain that ease pain and gives you an enhanced sense of wellbeing. The debate over addiction vs. dependence, and who is an addict and who is self medicating for depression, is not the topic of this thread, but it's a lingering question nonetheless.
>
> I work in a mental health facility that consists of several p-docs and therapists. I participate in conversations daily about mental health, medications, and various topics of interest, and I still come to the same conclusions about psychotropics as I did when I was 18, taking my first prescription of Paxil off to college across the country with me and never bothering to take it.
>
> It seems that the newest, latest drugs on the market (and I'm not narrowing them down to p-drugs), for the purpose of this conversation, are the ones prescribed. How could one know if the infamous Prozac is better than, equal to, or obsolete in proportion with Lexapro, its shiny new opponent? Sure, these SSRI meds have different compositions, but aren't they all the same? Wellbutrin is different; that much I know. And different meds work well for different people. But since we can't study the brain and measure one's Seratonin, Dopamine, and other chemical levels, aren't we limited to trial and error? Circumstance plays a part, as do hormone levels, so how do we know whether to shell out a ton of money for Lexapro when Prozac is only around $8.
>
> Obviously, I'm speaking from personal experience. But I watch patients day in and day out who are diagnosed with depression and medicated accordingly. It bugs me that Lexapro tissue boxes and Zyprexa pens litter the waiting room and office. Reps come and go almost as often as do patients. And you never hear the word "Prozac" or "Paxil" uttered anymore simply because they are not hot on the market.
>
> Any thoughts on this? Does anyone else have experience with taking different types of meds, which ones made you gain weight (Zoloft?) and which make you lose (Prozac?)? Is it safe to flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant?
>
> Any answers would be appreciated. I'm taking an online survey, if you will, since I'm not in a position to talk to patients outright about these medications and their effects.
>
> Thanks Much!
> L. Rae
Posted by Sad Panda on March 21, 2004, at 13:20:38
In reply to Re: SSRIs » Lindsay Rae, posted by Questionmark on March 21, 2004, at 13:03:13
> Good points. i've only been on one SSRI-- Paxil-- so i can't answer your other questions, but i do want to comment on the one. i really do not think that it is a good idea to "flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant" because, in addition to the fact that each of the SSRIs have mild pharmacological differences other than 5-HT reuptake inhibition, they also have different pharmakinetic profiles and varying degrees of reuptake inhibition. And is impossible to completely accurately estimate the comparitive potencies of reuptake inhibition between one SSRI and the next, so you go from one to another and you'll be getting either greater or lesser inhibition of serotonin reuptake-- frequently enough to have at least somewhat detrimental subjective consequences for the patient. i have heard about a number of people doing this and feeling bad for awhile after the switch, until the leveled out again on the old or replacement SSRI. It bothers me so much that so many pdocs even fail to see this alot.
>
>When I said it was probably OK, I meant in the context of taking some Zoloft instead of going cold turkey until the script arrives.
Cheers,
Panda.
Posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 13:20:38
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Sad Panda on March 21, 2004, at 12:43:57
One of our patients, who has been treated with antipsychotic meds, was rushed to the hospital over the weekend after swallowing a dozen or so razor blades. Once clinician, when asked about her opinion, stated that they now believe the problem is of a hormonal nature. I started taking Celexa for post-partum and anxiety (OB's attempt to get me off the miniscule of Xanax I took for sleeping), but when my Medicaid ran out I could no longer afford it. I got Zoloft free because of samples, so I just switched. I gained forty pounds, but I attributed it to my cereal and sherbet diet. I never made the connection about weight gain with ADs. When I ran out of Zoloft because I didn't get the Connection to Care form in on time, my therapist gave me Lexapro samples to "hold me over," and I found that I felt much better after a short amount of time. But I also started a new job recently, visited the dad of my recently deceased husband (age 26), and most likely have PTSD.
A friend of mine, who was trying to wean off of Effexor, gave me a book called "Prozac Backlash," which was kind of a cynnical perspective on the over-prescription of ADs. I don't know how MAOI's work, but it seems to me that you can't take anything with them; wherever there's a warning label, MAOI is on it. Do not take this or that if you are taking an MAOI, etc. I don't know which catgory Effexor is in, but I'd be scared to death to try any more ADs, especially Effexor or Depakote, just from hearing horror stories. A light dose of opiate/benzo would be just fine for me, thank you very much.
L Rae
Posted by snapper on March 21, 2004, at 20:38:17
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
I FEEL THE EXACT SAME WAY ON MANY OF THE ISSUES YOU ADDRESSED IN YOUR POST.. SOMETIMES I JUST REALLY DO THINK THAT THE "NEW SSRI'S" ARE JUST NEW - FANCIER MARKETED 'ME-TOO TYPE DRUGS' I WON'T DENY THAT FOR A SMALL PORTION OF THE PEOPLE OUT THERE, ARE SIGNIFICANTLY HELPED BY DRUG 'X'. However FOR THE LARGER MAJORITY OF THOSE LIKE US WHO "LURK AROUND" AND OR POST ON THIS SITE ARE REALLY JUST LOOKING FOR A GLIMMER OF HOPE THAT WHAT SOMEONE ELSE HAS OR MIGHT BE TAKING-MIGHT BE THE MAGICAL CHEMICAL OR COMBO OF CHEMICALS-THAT MIGHT HELP THEM FEEL GREAT, AND CREATE A BETTER QUALITY OF LIFE.I AM SORRY IF I HAVE GOTTEN OFF ON A RANT HERE BUT YA KNOW IT HAS BEEN SUGGESTED HERE ON PB AND OTHER BOARDS HERE WITHIN PB THAT IT ALL REALLY BOILS DOWN TO IS BIG $$$$ AND UNTIL THE PEOPLE WHO DO ALL THIS SCIENTIFIC TESTING AND DOUBLE BLIND COMPARISON CRAP- GET OUT THE REAL SERIOUS BIG GUNS AND TRY TO FIGURE OUT WHAT IS GOING ON WITH OUR JACKED UP BRAINS --THAT A BIGGER MAJORITY OF US WILL CONTINUE TO SUFFER!! YES I AM ANGRY AND I AM SORRY FOR MY PI**ED OF DISPOSTION THAT IS LIKELY SHOWING IN THIS POST. MAYBE THEY REALLY DON'T KNOW!!BUT I STILL HAVE A SMALL INKLING THAT IT IS MUCH TO DO ABOUT THE MIGHTY $$ AND NOT THE PEOPLE WHO ARE THE SUFFERING GUINEA PIGS WHO ARE INGESTING LARGE QUANTITY OF THESE CHEMICAL COCKTAILS..........!!!!!!!! SORRY,AND HOPE I HAVE'NT OFFENDED ANYONE WHO IS HAVING SUCCESS ON THIS OR THAT MED. HOWEVER ON THE SUNNIER SIDE OF THINGS , I WOULD LIKE TO SAY THAT I AM VERY GRATEFUL FOR THE TECHNOLOGY OF THE INTERNET AND IT'S ABILITY TO LET PRACTICALLY THE ENTIRE WORLD SHARE AND COMPARE WITH EACH OTHER THE PROS AND CONS OF NEGATIVE AND POSITIVE SIDE EFFECT PROFILES OF MOST ALL OF THESE 'MIRACLE' 20 AND 21'ST CENTURY WONDER DRUGS.. I KNOW THAT CARRYING ON LIKE THIS, MAY WELL DRAW SOME CRITISISM(SP) AND I HOPE THAT OTHERS SEE IT FOR WHAT IT REALLY IS !! I KNOW MANY OF THESE MEDS HAVE ALLOWED MILLIONS OF PEOPLE TO LEAD BETTER LIVES, BUT WHAT ABOUT US; THE PEOPLE WHO ARE ON PB FOR IN THE FIRST PLACE-- JUST LOOKING FOR ANSWERS!THANKS FOR LISTENING! BOTTOM LINE_______________ YES OPIATES AND ALCOHOL DO SEEM TO BE MORE ENJOYABLE, BUT WITH A SERIOUS PRICE ATTACHED!!! CAN WE WIN???
SNAPPER
Posted by zeugma on March 21, 2004, at 22:32:05
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by snapper on March 21, 2004, at 20:38:17
I doubt there are any new 'wonder' drugs coming out with novel mechanisms anytime soon. So I think the biggest issue is with the wise use of the pharmacopia- and that means NOT reflexively using SSRI's as a cure-all for every case of depression that walks in the door. There are TCA's, MAOI's, stimulants, atypical AP's and others, and many many combinations of same. The older meds are actually more effective tools than SSRI's. If they were used more wisely the standard of care for serious depression would be far higher, and a lot of the mystery would be taken out of the process of prescribing meds. As it is, selection of AD's has a lot more to do with marketing than with the practice of serious medicine. This is an unqualified disaster for us all, and it's why so many of here have been driven to research our own conditions and to search for effective, rather than effectively marketed, treatments. I wish prozac had never become a household word.
Posted by KathrynLex on March 22, 2004, at 18:28:51
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Hi Lindsay,
You raise some interesting questions...
>That's why I question the role hormones play in my overall mental health picture (and everyone else's for that matter).
I think hormones play a huge role in a persons mental health. Teenagers hormones are all over the board and many of them are deemed emotionally unstable and people are very quick to medicate them.
> What is so damned frustrating for me is the guessing game with the different anti-depressants. With opiates, it is clear what the medicine is doing: filling those receptors that fire neurons to the brain that ease pain and gives you an enhanced sense of wellbeing.It's pretty clear what SSRI's are doing. They're adjusting the amount of Seritonine in your brain to a "normal" level.
> It seems that the newest, latest drugs on the market (and I'm not narrowing them down to p-drugs), for the purpose of this conversation, are the ones prescribed. How could one know if the infamous Prozac is better than, equal to, or obsolete in proportion with Lexapro, its shiny new opponent? Sure, these SSRI meds have different compositions, but aren't they all the same?Each SSRI has a slightly different chemical make-up. Lexapro is deemed "better" because it's thought to have fewer side effects. Of course, I think it really varies depending on the individual.
>How do we know whether to shell out a ton of money for Lexapro when Prozac is only around $8.
I only pay about $10 for Lexapro. But you're right, the majority of finding the right medication is limited to trial and error.
> Obviously, I'm speaking from personal experience. But I watch patients day in and day out who are diagnosed with depression and medicated accordingly. It bugs me that Lexapro tissue boxes and Zyprexa pens litter the waiting room and office. Reps come and go almost as often as do patients. And you never hear the word "Prozac" or "Paxil" uttered anymore simply because they are not hot on the market.
I think you may be slightly biased because the doctors you work around are prone to prescribe the latest meds. But I know several drs who recommend Prozac or some of the other older meds.
> Any thoughts on this? Does anyone else have experience with taking different types of meds, which ones made you gain weight (Zoloft?) and which make you lose (Prozac?)?
Lexapro has helped me loose weight, Prozac didn't though.
>Is it safe to flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant?
I don't know if it's safe to do that, but I would guess that it's very uncomfortable. Always changing meds can really throw you through a loop because they both have such different side effects. I would recommend picking one and sticking with it.
K.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 20:02:55
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by snapper on March 21, 2004, at 20:38:17
There are no real LONG term studies on these meds on humans. Long term are key words.....Now the FDA is warning on an issue that isnt a surprise to me..I am glad I never took any of it
Patients on some popular antidepressants should be closely monitored for warning signs of suicide, the government warned Monday in asking the makers of 10 drugs to add the caution to their labels.
Although the Food and Drug Administration's investigation into the possible suicide connection initially focused on children given the drugs, its warning is aimed at both adult and pediatric use.
It isn't clear the drugs actually do lead to suicide, the FDA stressed. But until that is settled, advisers to the FDA called last month for stronger warnings to doctors and parents that the antidepressants may cause agitation, anxiety and hostility in a subset of patients who may be unusually prone to rare side effects.
The drugs of concern are all newer-generation antidepressants: Prozac, Paxil, Zoloft, Effexor, Celexa, Remeron, Lexapro, Luvox, Serzone and Wellbutrin. Most are known to affect the brain chemical serotonin.
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 20:06:23
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs/ FDA, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 20:02:55
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2004-03-22-antidepressants_x.htm
Posted by Questionmark on March 23, 2004, at 15:07:35
In reply to Re: SSRIs » Questionmark, posted by Sad Panda on March 21, 2004, at 13:20:38
> > Good points. i've only been on one SSRI-- Paxil-- so i can't answer your other questions, but i do want to comment on the one. i really do not think that it is a good idea to "flip-flop from Lexapro to Zoloft while the pharmacy mails you the correct antidepressant" because, in addition to the fact that each of the SSRIs have mild pharmacological differences other than 5-HT reuptake inhibition, they also have different pharmakinetic profiles and varying degrees of reuptake inhibition. And is impossible to completely accurately estimate the comparitive potencies of reuptake inhibition between one SSRI and the next, so you go from one to another and you'll be getting either greater or lesser inhibition of serotonin reuptake-- frequently enough to have at least somewhat detrimental subjective consequences for the patient. i have heard about a number of people doing this and feeling bad for awhile after the switch, until the leveled out again on the old or replacement SSRI. It bothers me so much that so many pdocs even fail to see this alot.
> >
> >
>
> When I said it was probably OK, I meant in the context of taking some Zoloft instead of going cold turkey until the script arrives.
>
> Cheers,
> Panda.Hey. Just so you know, i never meant to imply that you meant anything other than what you said or that i was even replying to what you said. i was just responding to Lindsey Rae's question.
i do agree and think that switching to another SSRI is better than nothing at all if one is having problems getting their usual SSRI right awway.
Posted by TexasChic on March 23, 2004, at 16:29:02
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Just to throw in my two cents... I changed from Prozac to Lexapro about 5 months ago because my pdoc thought it would treat my depression as well as help my anxiety attacks. I haven't felt this bad since before I started taking meds. The depression has been so bad I just could not stop crying some days (even at work!). A couple of weeks ago she put me on Wellbutrin as well. I do feel a little more motivated, but still depressed. Plus I now have headaches everyday. Anyway, I went in today and told her I wanted back on the Prozac (which I had been on 3 or 4 years and was a miracle worker for my depression). She agreed and told me I was the 4th person today who wanted off the Lexapro. Apparently Lexapro is geared toward specific receptors whereas older meds like Prozac cover a wider range. She said the medical field is discovering that the wider range ones are working better than these new ones taylored toward specific receptors. So I'm going back to Prozac, along with Xanax as needed for panic attacks. Luckily this doc isn't scared of Xanax like my old one was who wouldn't prescribe it at all. I really can't understand Xanax addiction myself, mainly because it makes me sleepy. So I usually take it as a last resort.
I also had the dependence/addiction thing come up when I was having extreme pain that no one could explain. That doc called me a drug seeker, which was devastating. But I got a new one and realized not all docs are evil.
Posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2004, at 17:49:49
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Re: Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy? » Lindsay Rae
Posted by terrics on March 21, 2004, at 15:14:49
In reply to Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 13:44:31
Legit, not lazy...Getting to the right ones is tricky. Gained wt. on zoloft, lost wt. on effexor, stay the same on a combo...effexor,wellbutrin,klonopin, and lithium. ps this probably goes on the medication board. terrics
--
Re: Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy? » Lindsay Rae
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 21, 2004, at 19:43:40
In reply to Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 13:44:31
My personal opinion is that they are over prescribed and over rated....I really would like to see everyone with a possible emotional issue get a TOTAL work up by a endocrinologist before any SSRI type of drug be given. JMO
--
Now the FDA WARNS PEOPLE ON THESE MEDS
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 20:25:25
In reply to Re: Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy? » Lindsay Rae, posted by Fallen4myT on March 21, 2004, at 19:43:40
http://www.usatoday.com/money/industries/health/drugs/2004-03-22-antidepressants_x.htm
You can bet there are more things to come on these meds as they have no long term studies IF you are on meds and do well by ALL MEANS stay on just sharing the news on this if you missed it.
--
Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?) » Fallen4myT
Posted by spoc on March 22, 2004, at 23:48:46
In reply to Re: Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy? » Lindsay Rae, posted by Fallen4myT on March 21, 2004, at 19:43:40
Hi FallenFMT, first let me say you are stylin as usual tonight, even in your PJs! ;- )
This may be a med/health board question and it's on my list to put it there too, but since you brought it up... Do you know what main kinds of tests/doctors one could/should look into to rule out physiological issues would be? Including for brain stuff (only neurologists or are there others?). I have only had thyroid tests -- that wasn't it apparently. But I have several intermittent, somewhat vague, longstanding "complaints" I'd like to check out/rule out once and for all. Don't we all probably, huh? Not expecting "absolution" but who knows! Would be a shame to miss such an "easy" way out! : )
--
Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?) » spoc
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 19:55:31
In reply to Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?), posted by spoc on March 22, 2004, at 23:48:46
Lol Spoc you make me lol cause I am in my nightgown as we speak...are you my neighbor ?? LOL...OK an endocrinologist tests all the enzymes and hormones that come from your adrenal glands..your pituitary gland, hympthalmus , pineal (sp sorry I cannot spell these )they sometimes XRay these and glands and they do the reproductive glands , theyroid and parathyroid and so many things. They test your pancreas and wow just so much. The deal is I had a enzymatic block of my adrenal glands and THAT can make you anxious and depressed TOO MUCH CORTISOL, tired and so on. The are sooo specialized they saw I had too much testosterone too..as I am female that was needing addressing. All your hormones if off can mimic and even cause emotional issues. So my thinking is until these are ALL ruled out why take meds..it MAY be a medical issue that a normal doc and or a OB/GYN would never test for or know to test for. Thyroid tests ..wow there are many and most docs do not run them all..Not many test your adrenal glands....and the tests a LOT of endcrinologists run they do insulin levles not just a 5 hr gtt, random bs or hbA1c,.there is a LOT for them to find. Hope that helps if not I can find you some sites
Posted by Lindsay Rae on March 24, 2004, at 20:37:57
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by KathrynLex on March 22, 2004, at 18:28:51
I really appreciate all of your feedback. I did take the Zoloft this past week because my pharmacy, which is an hour away and only opens during my work hours (8-5), shorted me eleven pills last month, and I couldn't pick up the rest since I will be working now and unable to go to that pharmacy. I called two days before running out, and asked them to call in the remainder to a pharmacy close to my house, and the woman offered to just drop them in the mail that afternoon. I agreed that it would be fine. To my dismay, when I got home from work Friday, there were no pills, but there was a card from the post office letting me know that the package was twelve cents short on postage, and I'd have to retrieve them from the post office, which incidentally is pretty far away as well, and again, same hours. So for this week, I took Zoloft, and I have to say I don't know if that's the reason I've been so weepy. My bosses took me in the board room to inform me that my finger print record finally came back, and there is a Petit Theft charge. I reeled. Three years ago, I was arrested for eating a single donut hole from an Entenman's box while shopping. The manager approached me and asked sternly if I was going to pay for them. I kind of laughed, saying "Of course I'm going to pay for them." He took offense to the smirk, yelling "Oh, you think this is funny?" Then to the cashier, "Call the police!" I was arrested, spent the night in jail, and brought to court in the morning, where a public defender advised me to plead "No Contest", assuring me that ajudification would be withheld. All of this meant nothing to me, since I've never been through the legal system before. The judge released me, and I never mentioned the incident again, except to joke about what we came to call the "donut caper." Now I could lose my job over this. But I don't know if it was the AD chaos that caused me to burst into tears for two hours rather than calmly explain the situation to my supervisors and collectively come up with a plan to have the charge expunged. The part I left out, which was perhaps the most crucial, is that my husband was in the restroom while I was shopping, and he had our money in his wallet. When I informed the manager that I'd prove I was buying the stupid donuts when my husband came out of the restroom, he went looking for him. Just as the police arrived, the manager returned holding my husband by the collar. "Look what I found," he said smugly. He had found him in the restroom doing cocaine. With a NEEDLE. That is the real reason I ended up in jail, although it's not stated on the arrest report. I found out I was pregnant just after Christmas 2001 (we were in jail on 12-18-01), and I fled to my parents' house to get away from my husband's drug problem. He died last November. Overdosed on dope. I am raising an amazing little girl. She's 18 months now, and I get so much joy from her. I miss her daddy, even though it was a rough ride with him, and I had to keep a distance between us because of the baby.
Phew, sorry about the inane blathering. I'm kind of annoyed about the redirection of the thread, even though I expected it. I posted the same thread on the med board and the psych board because I wanted several different perspectives. It's not like it was totally unrelated to psychology. Oh well.
Thanks for all the feedback. I'm still without my Lexapro, but I'm so mixed up about whether any of them even work, I don't even care. For breakfast I have Phentermine, Methadone, and a big glass of water. At bedtime I take one Xanax and one over the counter sleeping pill so I won't lay awake fighting panic and despair over losing my guy, for whom I haven't grieved yet because I have to "be strong" for the baby. That's what everyone says.
I pray that no one from work comes to this board. I'd be fired for sure if they did. But I'm relieved to talk to others who share the same concerns and know where I'm coming from. A therapist from work let me hide in her office when I was weeping yesterday, and a nurse helped me with the Lexapro situation, although I won't say how. Let's just say she introduced me to the rep, who gave me some useful information.
'Night All, and thanks for listening...
L Rae
Posted by spoc on March 24, 2004, at 23:36:50
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs/ FDA, posted by Fallen4myT on March 22, 2004, at 20:02:55
Posted by Lindsay Rae on March 25, 2004, at 18:58:17
In reply to Did our endocrinology posts, poss others get lost? (nm) » Fallen4myT, posted by spoc on March 24, 2004, at 23:36:50
No, they were all redirected by Dr. Bob because I mentioned medication. While I understand the need to keep subjects separate to avoid chaos and keep the board more user friendly, I am annoyed at the redirection of my post because I actually posted the SAME thread ON the med board. I wanted responses from both boards; it's not as if Psychology and medication are mutually exclusive. Sheesh.
L Rae
Posted by spoc on March 25, 2004, at 19:29:19
In reply to Re: Did our endocrinology posts, poss others get lost?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 25, 2004, at 18:58:17
I saw that redirection but I can't find at least two or three posts from that general thread, and think they may have gotten lost? Fallen4myT had posted an opinion about getting a full work up from an endocrinologist before starting meds, and I posted to ask her more about that. She replied and I followed the link e-mailed to me and read her post. The next day the link didn't work anymore and I couldn't find her post or mine, or at least one other I think. I did a Psychobabble search and my question still appeared in Google that night, but when clicked on also didn't work. And now doesn't appear in Babble/Google anymore either. Looked manually and don't see them anywhere.
I think they had been under the "Meds: Legit or Lazy" thread, although Fallen4myT gave at least one of hers a different title, the initial one where she recommended seeing an endocrinologist. Then I had added "endocrinologist" into my title. Any idea what could be up?
=============
> No, they were all redirected by Dr. Bob because I mentioned medication. While I understand the need to keep subjects separate to avoid chaos and keep the board more user friendly, I am annoyed at the redirection of my post because I actually posted the SAME thread ON the med board. I wanted responses from both boards; it's not as if Psychology and medication are mutually exclusive. Sheesh.
>
> L Rae
Posted by denise528 on March 28, 2004, at 11:43:57
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Hi,
Yes I have taken many SSRIs in the past and my experience has been if they are going to work then they all will if they're not then none of them will work with the exception of prozac that was the only one that seemed to do nothing.
Years ago Seroxat (paxil) worked pretty much the same for me as Sertraline (zooloft), I had a robust response to both although Seroxat felt stronger. Years later I tried Seroxat, sertraline, citalopram, prozac and none worked.
Two years after that Seroxat didn't have the awful effect it had the second time round and seemed to work slightly although not as good as the first time round. Just goes to show you never know, worryingly there is no tried and trusted formula, neither the doctors or the psychiatrists really know how these drugs work.They seem to have this theory that the drugs take a month to 8 months to work based on some sort of down regulation theory. I know that not to be the case, in the past they've worked for me within days. I tried telling my doctor that and could have hit him when he suggested it was a placebo effect!! There was no way it could have been placebo, if that was the case then hypnotherapy would have worked for me, accupuncture too! The same doctor also tried to suggest that they weren't working because I had some sort of personality disorder even though they had worked really well years before. I've never been to see that doctor since.
I really hope within my heart that with the advent of Pet scans and such they'll to start to get to the bottom of the fundamentals of depression and all other mental illnesses. The thing I hate about depression, is you can't see it and I always feel like such a "fraud" for even saying I suffer from it.
Denise
Posted by denise528 on March 28, 2004, at 12:11:25
In reply to Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by Lindsay Rae on March 21, 2004, at 11:48:52
Hi,
Just wanted to add that I entirely agree with Snapper's comments. I genuinely believe that all SSRIs work pretty much the same, if they are going to work and in most cases they do work. It is not until you get to the point where you are Treatment resistant that they stop working and that's when the frustration really begins.
I used to be very fortunate when I first started taking ADs, the first one I took (prothiaden) a tryciclic, worked really well and very quickly, the second one I took years later, this time Seroxat (paxil) again worked really well and very quickly. I thought depression was so treatable and that these drugs worked for everyone. If It is only from my last awful experience with depression and the trial and error process of trying different drugs at different dosages in different combinations that I have realised how untreatable it can feel and be.
I also think that in future any new drug trials are only conducted on people who suffer from TRD, who have failed to respond sufficiently on existing drugs on the market because there is a proportion of people like the ones on this board who have tried everything, who are still suffering and are losing hope. Why waste more time on bringing out more drugs of the same kind and just including people who suffer from depression but not necessarily TRD, if there is a treatment that already works for them then why use them in the study, they already have something that works. I do however, believe in conducting studies to try and work out the difference between somebody "normal" somebody with "depression" and somebody with "hard to treat depression"
The drug companies and scientists should spend more time conducting studies and research on people with difficult to treat depression.
Denise
Posted by spoc on March 28, 2004, at 13:21:38
In reply to Re: Is any of this research on SSRIs really legit?, posted by denise528 on March 28, 2004, at 11:43:57
Posted by snapper on March 29, 2004, at 2:34:17
In reply to ALL SSRIS WORK THE SAME UNTIL THEY STOP, posted by denise528 on March 28, 2004, at 12:11:25
denise i am so glad you see my point I am becoming utterley dispaired..I wish my pdoc would come out and say ;hey you know what ,Clint, I know you are suffering ,lets go ahead and give ect another try, becasue I did have some beneficial results from it -even if it does only last for 3 ,4 or even 6 months of relief. I am so sick of the meds game and my pdoc is not totally pro meds but I just don't think he realizes what anguish I am going through. Guys -anyone out there please keep people like denise , myself and many others out there in your thoughts and prayers - I am not crying wolf -but most days I really feel like giving up...I wish it were JUST side effects that were the problem-not just depression and inadiquit(sp)response or no response at all!!
anyhow good luck to everyone with TRD, keep fighting this beast!!!
My best regards
Snapper
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 30, 2004, at 0:19:11
In reply to Redirected: Treatment with Meds...Legit or Lazy?, posted by Dr. Bob on March 24, 2004, at 17:49:49
WAS THIS IT?? DR BOB HAD IT POSTED HERE..OR SOMEONE LOL ..I AM TIRED BUT WAS THIS IT?
Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?) » spoc
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 19:55:31
In reply to Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?), posted by spoc on March 22, 2004, at 23:48:46
Lol Spoc you make me lol cause I am in my nightgown as we speak...are you my neighbor ?? LOL...OK an endocrinologist tests all the enzymes and hormones that come from your adrenal glands..your pituitary gland, hympthalmus , pineal (sp sorry I cannot spell these )they sometimes XRay these and glands and they do the reproductive glands , theyroid and parathyroid and so many things. They test your pancreas and wow just so much. The deal is I had a enzymatic block of my adrenal glands and THAT can make you anxious and depressed TOO MUCH CORTISOL, tired and so on. The are sooo specialized they saw I had too much testosterone too..as I am female that was needing addressing. All your hormones if off can mimic and even cause emotional issues. So my thinking is until these are ALL ruled out why take meds..it MAY be a medical issue that a normal doc and or a OB/GYN would never test for or know to test for. Thyroid tests ..wow there are many and most docs do not run them all..Not many test your adrenal glands....and the tests a LOT of endcrinologists run they do insulin levles not just a 5 hr gtt, random bs or hbA1c,.there is a LOT for them to find. Hope that helps if not I can find you some sites
Posted by spoc on March 30, 2004, at 1:49:37
In reply to Re: Redirected:.Legit or Lazy? SPOC SEE BELOW » Dr. Bob, posted by Fallen4myT on March 30, 2004, at 0:19:11
....Wouldn't want to take "credit" for composing THAT part of the title, around these parts!!
= 0 ;- )> WAS THIS IT?? DR BOB HAD IT POSTED HERE..OR SOMEONE LOL ..I AM TIRED BUT WAS THIS IT? >
Yes, that's it, thanks pal! But was it here already? Now your pajama statement is feeding into nothing...But who needs a reason to talk about their pajamas around here! I think your original post recommending trying an endocrinologist first got eaten too, that's where my related question to you came from. So get bugged again and go fetch! What kind of injustice is going down here?? ;- ) That said I'll probably look up at the thread and everything will indeed be there! Seriously, thanks for digging this up! Get some beauty sleep (not that you need it of course)! : )
> Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?) » spoc
>
> Posted by Fallen4myT on March 23, 2004, at 19:55:31
>
> In reply to Re: Endocrinologist (Meds...Legit or Lazy?), posted by spoc on March 22, 2004, at 23:48:46
>
> Lol Spoc you make me lol cause I am in my nightgown as we speak...are you my neighbor ?? LOL...OK an endocrinologist tests all the enzymes and hormones that come from your adrenal glands..your pituitary gland, hympthalmus , pineal (sp sorry I cannot spell these )they sometimes XRay these and glands and they do the reproductive glands , theyroid and parathyroid and so many things. They test your pancreas and wow just so much. The deal is I had a enzymatic block of my adrenal glands and THAT can make you anxious and depressed TOO MUCH CORTISOL, tired and so on. The are sooo specialized they saw I had too much testosterone too..as I am female that was needing addressing. All your hormones if off can mimic and even cause emotional issues. So my thinking is until these are ALL ruled out why take meds..it MAY be a medical issue that a normal doc and or a OB/GYN would never test for or know to test for. Thyroid tests ..wow there are many and most docs do not run them all..Not many test your adrenal glands....and the tests a LOT of endcrinologists run they do insulin levles not just a 5 hr gtt, random bs or hbA1c,.there is a LOT for them to find. Hope that helps if not I can find you some sites
>
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 31, 2004, at 0:22:19
In reply to Re: Dear board, Legit /Lazy wasn't my title : ) » Fallen4myT, posted by spoc on March 30, 2004, at 1:49:37
lol so now spoc i am to find some old post on why i saw an endo in the first place..wow thats one of 3 places...gimme a few days ....hahaha or make Dr Bob get it :-P hahahahaha just joking Dr Bob <-- said in my best Eddie Haskall voice
Posted by Fallen4myT on March 31, 2004, at 0:35:23
In reply to Did our endocrinology posts, poss others get lost? (nm) » Fallen4myT, posted by spoc on March 24, 2004, at 23:36:50
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